DP1 Merrill / DP2 Merrill / DP3 Merill - what are the differences

Started Mar 26, 2013 | Questions
vbd70
vbd70 Veteran Member • Posts: 6,047
Re: The lenses. Claims of colour differences...
1

HBowman wrote:

But if the "experts" of this forum (This is not my community, I do not identifies myself as a member of this community, just a contributing professional observer) said that there is no change between this two cameras then, trust them

No, I am actually waiting for my DP3 to get here (probably Thursday if all goes well) so that I can review it myself. Until then, I just reported what I saw online.

Of course, shooting flowers with both will not bring out that much differences.

The difference is that I make money with this camera. I'm with clients with this camera. We compare, they choose, they decide. Their PP team know better than you and me what is a pantone or a correct color. The DP2m never managed to convince them. That all. maybe firmwares will change that.

Good for you, I am making money with the DP2 & DP1 Merrill so far (my Merrill Venice images are selling well enough) and I hope to make money with the DP3 Merrill as well once I get it. While my main kit is Nikon (D800E, D3x and various lenses) I am actually trying to see how I can get a Foveon-based DSLR as well - possibly using F-mount lenses; since getting acquainted with the 2 Merrill I really started liking the Foveon output a lot - it reminds me of Medium Format.

-- hide signature --

Best,

Vieri

-- hide signature --

equipment in profile
Vieri Bottazzini Fine Art Photography
http://www.vieribottazzini.com
My Newsletter:
http://eepurl.com/s1Sjb
portfolios:
http://www.madshutter.com
my blog
http://madshutter.blogspot.com
Facebook galleries:
https://www.facebook.com/vierimadshutter

 vbd70's gear list:vbd70's gear list
Leica SL (Typ 601) Leica CL Leica APO-Telyt-M 135mm f/3.4 ASPH Leica SL 90-280mm F2.8–4 Leica Summilux-TL 35mm F1.4 ASPH +4 more
HBowman
HBowman Senior Member • Posts: 1,237
Re: The lenses. Claims of colour differences...

If I sounded "excited" it is because I think this DP3 is a true tribute to Richard Merrill. It is an accomplishment. Richard Merrill loved to use his SD with a 50 Marco. The DP3 is very close to this set-up, thus the tribute. That's all. I'm not a technician.

-- hide signature --
vbd70
vbd70 Veteran Member • Posts: 6,047
Re: The lenses. Claims of colour differences...

HBowman wrote:

If I sounded "excited" it is because I think this DP3 is a true tribute to Richard Merrill. It is an accomplishment. Richard Merrill loved to use his SD with a 50 Marco. The DP3 is very close to this set-up, thus the tribute. That's all. I'm not a technician.

-- hide signature --

So now you agree that you sounded excited - great, thank you for admitting it. Best,

Vieri

-- hide signature --

equipment in profile
Vieri Bottazzini Fine Art Photography
http://www.vieribottazzini.com
My Newsletter:
http://eepurl.com/s1Sjb
portfolios:
http://www.madshutter.com
my blog
http://madshutter.blogspot.com
Facebook galleries:
https://www.facebook.com/vierimadshutter

 vbd70's gear list:vbd70's gear list
Leica SL (Typ 601) Leica CL Leica APO-Telyt-M 135mm f/3.4 ASPH Leica SL 90-280mm F2.8–4 Leica Summilux-TL 35mm F1.4 ASPH +4 more
OP hexxthalion Contributing Member • Posts: 538
Re: DP1 Merrill / DP2 Merrill / DP3 Merill - what are the differences

NancyP wrote:

Nice cameras you have, hexx - why are you buying a Sigma in addition to the existing cameras? In other words, what situations do you most want the Foveon sensor to handle? What focal length do you use for those situations? One thing that is interesting about having the Sigma DP2M fixed-lens camera is that it (and DP1M, DP3M) uses a leaf shutter and is really quiet. You can add a "shutter" sound if you like, but if you want to be unobtrusive, these are unobtrusive cameras.

I was heavy user of X100 but since I got X-Pro1 I didn't use it much. I was thinking at first about replacing it with X100S but then it was the same X-Trans sensor so images would be of the same quality and 'look' to them. And then I've read somewhere about these little Sigma cameras and they are completely different to Fuji ones in what they're for and what they produce. I bought only Leica 3 weeks ago, it was a very good deal and this is probably the only chance I could experience what all that 'Leica magic' is all about so I got it with few rolls of film - it's fun

I'd use Sigma for landscapes and probably portraits, subjects where this sensor and lens could really shine.

 hexxthalion's gear list:hexxthalion's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix X100 Sigma DP2 Merrill Fujifilm X-Pro1 Nikon AF Micro-Nikkor 60mm f/2.8D Fujifilm XF 18mm F2 R +11 more
OP hexxthalion Contributing Member • Posts: 538
Re: DP1 Merrill / DP2 Merrill / DP3 Merill - what are the differences

ekaton wrote:

hexxthalion wrote:

this is what I was referring to:

"Since the DP2 Merrill, the output out of the Merrill sensor has been enhanced, thus my calling it the "Merrill Unleashed". The DP3 Merrill's colors are more accurate (by far); the color modes do not work like older models leading to even more room to work your raw files and this, in addition to the new SIGMA PHOTO PRO capabilities."

from: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/sigma_dp3_review.shtml

I have the DP2M and DP3m. Your claims of different color rendering are absolutely unsubstantiated. There is not the slightest trace of prove whatsover.

not my claims but thank you for clarification, it's hard to find somebody with both cameras.

 hexxthalion's gear list:hexxthalion's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix X100 Sigma DP2 Merrill Fujifilm X-Pro1 Nikon AF Micro-Nikkor 60mm f/2.8D Fujifilm XF 18mm F2 R +11 more
panpen Contributing Member • Posts: 957
Re: The lenses. Claims of colour differences...

HBowman wrote:

The one who say that skin tones out of the DP2m are good is just blind and never worked with any pro agency or professional models such as Elite or Ford or IMG.

I doubt any PRO would use such limited camera for pro work. For most of us it is hard to see any differences. I have both and after reading your review, a while back, I did some tests. I get different results using a few K degrees for white balance that I can see shooting the same scene using the same parameters with both cameras. There are a bunch of so called pros over fredmiranda freaking out about the 'huge' color improvement on dp3 over dp2. They go that far they would never even consider a dp2 if it doesn't output the same colors as dp3. Hilarious. people freaking over nothing other that smoke. The funny part is they don't even own the cameras. They just heard  someone over the Internet pointing it out. People believe anything these days.

MOD Kendall Helmstetter Gelner Forum Pro • Posts: 20,074
Re: The lenses. Claims of colour differences...

panpen wrote:

HBowman wrote:

The one who say that skin tones out of the DP2m are good is just blind and never worked with any pro agency or professional models such as Elite or Ford or IMG.

I doubt any PRO would use such limited camera for pro work.

Compared to most modern DSLRs, medium format digital backs are quite limited also.

Do you doubt pros use them?

Pros are pros because they use cameras as tools, and as such can do a good job without the crutches that others require from camera equipment.

Model shots are absolutely a place where a pro could use a Foveon based camera.  It part that is because of the more constant treatment of colors in a scene.  But also because it does a fantastic job rendering clothing.

 Kendall Helmstetter Gelner's gear list:Kendall Helmstetter Gelner's gear list
Sigma 70-200mm F2.8 EX DG OS HSM Sigma 8-16mm F4.5-5.6 DC HSM Sigma 24-70mm F2.8 EX DG HSM Sigma 50-500mm F4.5-6.3 DG OS HSM Sigma 85mm F1.4 EX DG HSM +4 more
MOD Kendall Helmstetter Gelner Forum Pro • Posts: 20,074
Re: The lenses. Claims of colour differences...

HBowman wrote:

Yes of course. For the choice, he need to see what focal would suit him best. But for colors, I overstate nothing. I have no interests to overstate anything, no interests at all. I just seen it at the first picture I took with the device. Like arcaswissi99 experienced.

I know you do not think you are overstating anything.

But after taking images of the same subject at the same time in the same light, I see virtually no difference, and in a few days others will be able to judge just by looking themselves also.

I also need to do more checks but my own images do not bear out the notion that the cameras shoot differently in terms of color, despite the results from that other thread.

 Kendall Helmstetter Gelner's gear list:Kendall Helmstetter Gelner's gear list
Sigma 70-200mm F2.8 EX DG OS HSM Sigma 8-16mm F4.5-5.6 DC HSM Sigma 24-70mm F2.8 EX DG HSM Sigma 50-500mm F4.5-6.3 DG OS HSM Sigma 85mm F1.4 EX DG HSM +4 more
diolus Regular Member • Posts: 439
Re: The lenses. Claims of colour differences...

Yeah the pros never heard or seen a foveon based camera.

 diolus's gear list:diolus's gear list
Sigma DP2 Merrill Nikon D600 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-120mm f/4G ED VR +2 more
Richard Franiec
Richard Franiec Senior Member • Posts: 2,532
Re: The answer

Laurence Matson wrote:

The lenses.

Since the OP has addressed the difference in focal length of lenses, could you elaborate on your response? Is there anything particular beside the physical size of each lens and focal length or construction of the lens?

Cheers

Richard

hexxthalion wrote:

Hi,

I'm really thinking about getting one of the Merrill cameras but can't find any info anywhere regarding the differences between these 3 models. What are the differences apart from different focal lengths? Firmware versions also differ and apparently you can't install FW for DP2M on DP3M.

Any response would be helpful as I'm bit torn between DP2M and DP3M.

Thank you.

-- hide signature --

Laurence
laurence at appledore-farm dot com
"The fact of being reported multiplies the apparent extent of any deplorable development by five- to tenfold" (or any figure the reader would care to supply).
Barbara Tuchman, A Distant Mirror
http://www.pbase.com/lmatson
http://www.pbase.com/sigmadslr
http://www.howardmyerslaw.com

 Richard Franiec's gear list:Richard Franiec's gear list
Sigma DP2 Merrill Canon PowerShot G7 X Canon EOS-1D Mark IV Canon EOS-1D X Canon EOS M +8 more
Wellington100 Forum Pro • Posts: 11,548
Re: DP1 Merrill / DP2 Merrill / DP3 Merill - what are the differences

AdamT wrote:

They`re Different Focal lengths - these days the 30mm FOV of the DP1M is IMO the most useful as the camera has plenty of cropping ability due to the resolution , the 45mm of the DP2M a bit tight (35mm would have been a far better bet) , the DP3M is around 85mm so short telephoto and far more specialist but I`d imagine excellent for portrait work

-- hide signature --

** Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist **

I so wish there was a zoom version

-- hide signature --

Doctors are bad for your lifestyle.

 Wellington100's gear list:Wellington100's gear list
Ricoh GR Fujifilm FinePix S5 Pro Panasonic Lumix DMC-GM1 Fujifilm X-T1 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX85 +15 more
Wellington100 Forum Pro • Posts: 11,548
Re: The lenses. Claims of colour differences...

vbd70 wrote:

...haven't been substantiated by anyone besides the somehow excited reviewer on Luminous Landscape. When a new camera comes out, people is prone to see what they want to see rather than what is in fact there; it is possible that lens coating is different on the DP3, or that Sigma changed something in the FW of the DP3, but as far as the hardware there isn't any proof that - besides the lenses - anything has been changed between the DP1, DP2 and DP3 Merrill. Besides, the LL reviewer aside many other claims that there isn't any difference between the two camera's insides and processing.

I have reviewed the DP1 / DP2 HERE  and will review the DP3 very soon (it should get in my hands Thursday). There is a poll on my blog about which high-end compact to review next, take a second to vote for your preferred camera HERE .

Best,

Vieri

Amazing shots and a great review.

-- hide signature --

equipment in profile
Vieri Bottazzini Fine Art Photography
http://www.vieribottazzini.com
My Newsletter:
http://eepurl.com/s1Sjb
portfolios:
http://www.madshutter.com
my blog
http://madshutter.blogspot.com
Facebook galleries:
https://www.facebook.com/vierimadshutter

-- hide signature --

Doctors are bad for your lifestyle.

 Wellington100's gear list:Wellington100's gear list
Ricoh GR Fujifilm FinePix S5 Pro Panasonic Lumix DMC-GM1 Fujifilm X-T1 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX85 +15 more
OP hexxthalion Contributing Member • Posts: 538
Re: DP1 Merrill / DP2 Merrill / DP3 Merill - what are the differences
1

Thank you very much to all of you who took some time to shed more light into my question and I'm sorry if I started some heated debate regarding possible differences in rendering between DP2M and DP3M.

I decided to go for DP2 Merrill which will replace in my camera bag Fuji X100 (if somebody wants it, give me a shout, otherwise it will be on eBay) and will be nice addition to my X-Pro1 and M6. Thanks a lot again.

May the photography be with you

 hexxthalion's gear list:hexxthalion's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix X100 Sigma DP2 Merrill Fujifilm X-Pro1 Nikon AF Micro-Nikkor 60mm f/2.8D Fujifilm XF 18mm F2 R +11 more
selected answer This post was selected as the answer by the original poster.
(unknown member) Forum Pro • Posts: 13,144
Re: DP1 Merrill / DP2 Merrill / DP3 Merill - what are the differences
1

hexxthalion wrote:

Thank you very much to all of you who took some time to shed more light into my question and I'm sorry if I started some heated debate regarding possible differences in rendering between DP2M and DP3M.

I decided to go for DP2 Merrill which will replace in my camera bag Fuji X100 (if somebody wants it, give me a shout, otherwise it will be on eBay) and will be nice addition to my X-Pro1 and M6. Thanks a lot again.

May the photography be with you

I have both an X100 and a DP2M.  No way does one replace the other.  The X100's low light ability CRUSHES the DP2M's.  I am barely satisfied with ISO400 with the DP2M.  I shoot at ISO1600 without hesitation with the X100.

-- hide signature --

9 years of Fujifilm camera usage, ended by rampant fanboyism.

OP hexxthalion Contributing Member • Posts: 538
Re: DP1 Merrill / DP2 Merrill / DP3 Merill - what are the differences

rattymouse wrote:

hexxthalion wrote:

Thank you very much to all of you who took some time to shed more light into my question and I'm sorry if I started some heated debate regarding possible differences in rendering between DP2M and DP3M.

I decided to go for DP2 Merrill which will replace in my camera bag Fuji X100 (if somebody wants it, give me a shout, otherwise it will be on eBay) and will be nice addition to my X-Pro1 and M6. Thanks a lot again.

May the photography be with you

I have both an X100 and a DP2M.  No way does one replace the other.  The X100's low light ability CRUSHES the DP2M's.  I am barely satisfied with ISO400 with the DP2M.  I shoot at ISO1600 without hesitation with the X100.

-- hide signature --

9 years of Fujifilm camera usage, ended by rampant fanboyism.

Hi there, I'm replacing it not like for like. X100S has X-Trans, I already have X-Trans based camera and it does better job than my trusty/rusty X100. It would make no sense to add another similar camera that's why I'm looking for something completely different. In the same way as I added M6 - again completely different to X-Pro1.

At no point I said that I want a product which is competing with X100/X-Pro1. I want something which will allow me to print large and is portable and something that will be used mostly for landscapes/architecture and other tripod work - to record memories from holidays in a small package with the opportunity to print large.

For my street needs I have M6 and X-Pro1.

 hexxthalion's gear list:hexxthalion's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix X100 Sigma DP2 Merrill Fujifilm X-Pro1 Nikon AF Micro-Nikkor 60mm f/2.8D Fujifilm XF 18mm F2 R +11 more
vbd70
vbd70 Veteran Member • Posts: 6,047
Re: The lenses. Claims of colour differences...

Wellington100 wrote:

Amazing shots and a great review.

Thank you very much, I am glad you enjoyed the words and especially the images!

Best,

Vieri

-- hide signature --

equipment in profile
Vieri Bottazzini Fine Art Photography
http://www.vieribottazzini.com
My Newsletter:
http://eepurl.com/s1Sjb
portfolios:
http://www.madshutter.com
my blog
http://madshutter.blogspot.com
Facebook galleries:
https://www.facebook.com/vierimadshutter

-- hide signature --

Doctors are bad for your lifestyle.

-- hide signature --

equipment in profile
Vieri Bottazzini Fine Art Photography
http://www.vieribottazzini.com
My Newsletter:
http://eepurl.com/s1Sjb
portfolios:
http://www.madshutter.com
my blog
http://madshutter.blogspot.com
Facebook galleries:
https://www.facebook.com/vierimadshutter

 vbd70's gear list:vbd70's gear list
Leica SL (Typ 601) Leica CL Leica APO-Telyt-M 135mm f/3.4 ASPH Leica SL 90-280mm F2.8–4 Leica Summilux-TL 35mm F1.4 ASPH +4 more
vbd70
vbd70 Veteran Member • Posts: 6,047
Re: The lenses. Claims of colour differences...

HBowman wrote:

vbd70 wrote:

...haven't been substantiated by anyone besides the somehow excited reviewer on Luminous Landscape. When a new camera comes out, people is prone to see what they want to see rather than what is in fact there; it is possible that lens coating is different on the DP3, or that Sigma changed something in the FW of the DP3, but as far as the hardware there isn't any proof that - besides the lenses - anything has been changed between the DP1, DP2 and DP3 Merrill. Besides, the LL reviewer aside many other claims that there isn't any difference between the two camera's insides and processing.

I have reviewed the DP1 / DP2 HERE and will review the DP3 very soon (it should get in my hands Thursday). There is a poll on my blog about which high-end compact to review next, take a second to vote for your preferred camera HERE .

Best,

Vieri

Are you conscious I'm the author of this report on Luminous Landscape and I'm here on this forum ?? 

First, I did this report for sharing not to grab any money or traffic on my website. Secondly I'm not or was "excited" by the DP3m as I own many brands from the D800 to the Leica S2.

In fact, the DP3m do not render like the DP2m (I was one of the first possessor of this device in my country) and the SD1m.

Beside my report, who is not a review, some others objective users noticed this change on this thread :

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3400500

It can be the lenses but I doubt just because of skin tones.

The one who say that skin tones out of the DP2m are good is just blind and never worked with any pro agency or professional models such as Elite or Ford or IMG.

But, skin tones out of the DP3m are just, without any pp. So, in my world, colour mode as changed. Vivid mode is usable in many situations also. This is not the case with the DP2m.

But you can continue the polemic to grab more ppl on your whatever blog or review ... I do not care. I'm happy with this tool, who is at a color justice level, better than the DP2m (I would have kept the DP2m other wise ...).

Forums are surreal.

-- hide signature --

See this:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/51167753

it seems that claims of colour differences between the three Merrill were, in fact, exaggerated.

I can't wait for my DP3 to arrive to see with my own eyes where we stand on the issue.

Best,

Vieri

-- hide signature --

equipment in profile
Vieri Bottazzini Fine Art Photography
http://www.vieribottazzini.com
My Newsletter:
http://eepurl.com/s1Sjb
portfolios:
http://www.madshutter.com
my blog
http://madshutter.blogspot.com
Facebook galleries:
https://www.facebook.com/vierimadshutter

 vbd70's gear list:vbd70's gear list
Leica SL (Typ 601) Leica CL Leica APO-Telyt-M 135mm f/3.4 ASPH Leica SL 90-280mm F2.8–4 Leica Summilux-TL 35mm F1.4 ASPH +4 more
Rare Oakleys Junior Member • Posts: 32
Re: DP1 Merrill / DP2 Merrill / DP3 Merill - what are the differences

i've been thinking of getting the SD1 Merrill because I have the old 24-70mm EX 2.8 and the very old 70-200 APO 2.8 both Sigma mount.

But then I need portability for traveling. Perhaps I should get all three DP1M & DP2M & DP3M ? I don't often take pictures from things very far away.

WhiteSwan Contributing Member • Posts: 631
Re: DP1 Merrill / DP2 Merrill / DP3 Merill - what are the differences

Rare Oakleys wrote:

i've been thinking of getting the SD1 Merrill because I have the old 24-70mm EX 2.8 and the very old 70-200 APO 2.8 both Sigma mount.

But then I need portability for traveling. Perhaps I should get all three DP1M & DP2M & DP3M ? I don't often take pictures from things very far away.

I bought all three, and as they are relatively small and light, having two in your bag is no problem. I can see no difference in image quality and rendering between them. Focal length is the only difference.

Tom Schum
Tom Schum Veteran Member • Posts: 7,292
DP3M more like SD15 colors

I've owned DP2, SD15, SD1, and now DP3M.

I noticed a difference between SD15 and SD1 colors, and liked SD15 colors better.  SD15 was better than DP2 also.

Now I have a DP3M.  Color seems to be more like the SD15 than any of the others I've owned.

It has that same vibrancy I remember from my SD15, with the incredible Merrill detail.  I think it is the ultimate Merrill.

I haven't owned or used the other DPxMs so I can't say for sure how they compare.  I'm delighted with my DP3M though.

-- hide signature --

Tom Schum

 Tom Schum's gear list:Tom Schum's gear list
Sigma DP2 Sigma DP3 Merrill Fujifilm X30 Sigma dp0 Quattro Fujifilm X-E1 +9 more
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads