EOS -SL1 or EOS M2 as first interchangeable lens camera?

Started Mar 25, 2013 | Discussions
Peter Berglund Regular Member • Posts: 103
EOS -SL1 or EOS M2 as first interchangeable lens camera?

I believe I am part of a fairly large consumer group: I use compact a cameras but have upgraded steadily, are now at enthusiast models (in my case S100) and enjoy shooting with PATM modes and RAW.  Next upgrade will be a "real camera" with interchangeable lenses, either a DSLR or a mirrorless.  I still want a small camera though, as I don't think I would bring a large one with me.

As many other, I was thrilled when the EOS-M came out but the AF performance disappointed. One fo the reasons for upgrading from a compact P/S is to get faster focusing for street and kid-shooting.

So here is the question. Assume Canon fixes the AF, and perhaps makes an attachable viewfinder for the next M series camera, will my kind of consumer be happier with that M2 or with a EOS-SL1?

Sure, every user is unique but I think there are a lot of us out there, who want a Canon, but cannot decide wether to buy a SL1 now or wait for a better, faster M2.

Thoughts?

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Peter

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Midwest Forum Pro • Posts: 17,871
Re: EOS -SL1 or EOS M2 as first interchangeable lens camera?

Peter Berglund wrote:

I believe I am part of a fairly large consumer group: I use compact a cameras but have upgraded steadily, are now at enthusiast models (in my case S100) and enjoy shooting with PATM modes and RAW. Next upgrade will be a "real camera" with interchangeable lenses, either a DSLR or a mirrorless. I still want a small camera though, as I don't think I would bring a large one with me.

As many other, I was thrilled when the EOS-M came out but the AF performance disappointed. One fo the reasons for upgrading from a compact P/S is to get faster focusing for street and kid-shooting.

So here is the question. Assume Canon fixes the AF, and perhaps makes an attachable viewfinder for the next M series camera, will my kind of consumer be happier with that M2 or with a EOS-SL1?

Sure, every user is unique but I think there are a lot of us out there, who want a Canon, but cannot decide wether to buy a SL1 now or wait for a better, faster M2.

Thoughts?

Whether the EOS-M gets faster AF and an attachable viewfinder doesn't really get to the heart of the question, which is the difference between a DSLR and a mirrorless camera. The EOS-M is never (in the foreseeable future) going to have autofocus (or viewfinder either) that can keep up with a DSLR's TTL OVF and phase detect AF.

If a person is happy using nothing but an LCD and slow autofocus, the EOS-M is fine. If they want a genuine viewfinder and faster autofocus the SL1 or other DSLR is the only way to go. Money being anywhere near equal I'd take the SL1 in a heartbeat. Other than maybe being a bit futzy because of being small and the controls being a bit cramped, it will not have to make any apologies for shortcomings like the M does.

The only thing the M has in its favor, I believe, is the tilt / swivel LCD while the SL1's LCD is 'fixed'. But if you buy a DSLR it's assumed it's because you want the optical viewfinder and fast autofocus, and the LCD and 'live view' are more annoyances than showstoppers.

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It's nice to say that nice pictures are nice.

007peter
007peter Forum Pro • Posts: 11,572
It will be a LONG WAIT for (M2)....SL1 = canon admission to its CDAF problem
3

Peter Berglund wrote:

....I was thrilled when the EOS-M came out but the AF performance disappointed. One fo the reasons for upgrading from a compact P/S is to get faster focusing for street and kid-shooting.

If shooting active kids are important, you're best solution is a DSLR [period].  The latest mirrorless are hae very fast single shot AF, but when you start to shoot in Continuous AF (AI Servo Tracking), that is where DSLR is still easier.

So what is your priority?

  • Get "That" Shot is most important - then I would suggest a DSLR
  • Fun, Portability, acceptable performance - I suggest Panasonic M43 or latest Olympus offering

So here is the question. Assume Canon fixes the AF, and perhaps makes an attachable viewfinder for the next M series camera, will my kind of consumer be happier with that M2 or with a EOS-SL1?

That is a BIG IF....and a very long WAIT, "IF" there is even going to be a M2.

Canon's release of SL1/100d is also canon's way of telling us that:

  • they can't fix the CDAF problem anytime soon, so please buy a tiny DSLR instead of mirrorless, and stay canon.

It'll take canon another 1-2 years of CDAF refinement to catch up to the speed of Panasonic.  By then, those mirrorless speed would have also improve, so canon will be playing a catchup forever on the CDAF front.

The bottom line, if CDAF is that important to you.  Shop elsewhere.

OP Peter Berglund Regular Member • Posts: 103
Re: It will be a LONG WAIT for (M2)....SL1 = canon admission to its CDAF problem

Thanks for two insightful replies!

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Peter

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Darren N Regular Member • Posts: 345
Re: It will be a LONG WAIT for (M2)....SL1 = canon admission to its CDAF problem
1

No contest to me the SL1 wins hands down.

10s Regular Member • Posts: 216
Will you be building a system?

I started with the 300D kit. Nowadays I would start with the SL1 kit and then build a system (multiple lenses, hoods, flash, tripod, etc.). After a while you'll find yourself carrying a bag with stuff. Some use G15, G1X or EOS-M alongside DSLR body, mixing system components. My wife and I use a Powershot 220 alongside a T4i system. 220 is easy to take along on any occasion and good enough in bright light for snapshots. T4i+18-135STM is my walk-around setup. Often I put the 50-250 in my coat pocket or the 50 1.8. Indoors I use my old 420EX flash with an omnibounce. Preferences differ. If you don't plan for a system the SL1 kit is still a very capable and compact allrounder. Good luck choosing.

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Ember42 Contributing Member • Posts: 684
Re: EOS -SL1 or EOS M2 as first interchangeable lens camera?

The EOS M system I see as an augmentation of the DSLR system.  The DSLR is more flexible but bulkier (even with the new SL1).  That said the M is bar none the best light hiking / travel landscape camera in Canon's line up.  Especially with the 22mm f2.0.  With the adapter it also is a good backup body to sue with a DSLR kit.

I would try the SL1 for grip.  Personally I would go for the Full size rebel or better for ergonomics (I have a 60D and an M)

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OP Peter Berglund Regular Member • Posts: 103
Re: Will you be building a system?

Thanks everyone for really thoughtful replies.  It seems all of you favor the SL1 and no one favors even a revised M.

I take a fair bit of video and wonder if you think the M (or "M2") has advantages there.

thanks

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Peter

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TTMartin
TTMartin Veteran Member • Posts: 7,304
Re: Will you be building a system?

Peter Berglund wrote:

Thanks everyone for really thoughtful replies.  It seems all of you favor the SL1 and no one favors even a revised M.

I take a fair bit of video and wonder if you think the M (or "M2") has advantages there.

thanks

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Peter

The SL1 has the advantage there too, as it has expanded phase detect auto focus points on the image sensor (over the EOS M, T4i and T5i), so theoretically it should do a better job at focus tracking during video.

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pcake Contributing Member • Posts: 692
Re: Will you be building a system?

since the SL2 isn't actually out yet, there's no way to know how comfortable it is to hold or how everything works.  sometimes cameras are released with issues, so i'd hold off on deciding about the SL1 till they're in circulation.  that being said, i find it very tempting, and can't wait to try one.

btw, i've owned several mirrorless cameras, at least briefly - 3 panasonics, 2 sonys and an olympus - and compared to any of them, the M feels like a brick in my hand. the lack of EVF was a deal breaker for me anyway, but the way it fit my (admittedly small) hand would have kept me from buying one.

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007peter
007peter Forum Pro • Posts: 11,572
because there won't be a M2. It's a dead end

Peter Berglund wrote:

Thanks everyone for really thoughtful replies.  It seems all of you favor the SL1 and no one favors even a revised M.

That's because there won be a M2. It's a dead end product I'm afraid. Look at it like this:

SL1 is a real product that exist today; M2 is a wishful thinking of tomorrow

SL1 focus fast; M1 focus very slow; M2 hopefully will shoot faster

SL1 can we entire catalog of canon lens; M only has 2 native lens and need to buy a bulky expensive adapter to access other canon lens

SL1 has optical viewfinder and LCD live view; M only has slow Live View, no EVF

SL1 cot $799 with kit lens; M1 price so similarly

You don't need a rocket science degree to see why SL1 is superior.

MAC Forum Pro • Posts: 13,802
Re: Will you be building a system?

Peter Berglund wrote:

Thanks everyone for really thoughtful replies.  It seems all of you favor the SL1 and no one favors even a revised M.

I take a fair bit of video and wonder if you think the M (or "M2") has advantages there.

thanks

hold a T4i with one hand

hold an sl1 with one hand

then make your decision

hint - which one will you be more likely to drop

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Peter

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Mirfak Senior Member • Posts: 1,375
Re: EOS -SL1 or EOS M2 as first interchangeable lens camera?

SL1 = T2i+smaller body+marginally better live view AF. Therefore, unless size is the primary requirement, a used T2i body can be had for less than half the price of a new SL1 body.

justmeMN Veteran Member • Posts: 6,471
Will there be an EOS M2?

>there won't be a M2. It's a dead end

I suspect that there will eventually be an EOS M2, for people who want something even smaller than the SL1 / 100D. I think the G1 X line is dead though.

That said, I agree that the SL1 /100D should be clearly superior. And yes, real cameras always beat "vapor cameras".

tomtom50 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,244
Re: EOS -SL1 or EOS M2 as first interchangeable lens camera?

Mirfak wrote:

SL1 = T2i+smaller body+marginally better live view AF. Therefore, unless size is the primary requirement, a used T2i body can be had for less than half the price of a new SL1 body.

Sensible way to look at this. http://camerasize.com/compare/#219,448

How to buy a cheap t2i body?

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OP Peter Berglund Regular Member • Posts: 103
Re: EOS -SL1 or EOS M2 as first interchangeable lens camera?

SL1 = T2i+smaller body+marginally better live view AF. Therefore, unless size is the primary requirement, a used T2i body can be had for less than half the price of a new SL1 body.

But couldn't that be said for the 3i, 4i and 5i (except for he size) as well?

Or is SL1 more like T2i than the newer ones are?

There's touch display as well I guess. But in my case it's all about the size which is why I'm comparing it to the M and not a Txi.
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Peter

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milliemann New Member • Posts: 22
Re: EOS -SL1 or EOS M2 as first interchangeable lens camera?

tomtom50 wrote:

Mirfak wrote:

SL1 = T2i+smaller body+marginally better live view AF. Therefore, unless size is the primary requirement, a used T2i body can be had for less than half the price of a new SL1 body.

Sensible way to look at this. http://camerasize.com/compare/#219,448

Thank you for this site.  By comparing the SL1 to the SX50 I see that the size is pretty close to the S5 IS that I own.  If I hadn't just bought the T4i for Christmas I would have waited til this one went down in price before purchasing my first dslr as I have small hands and this would have fit better.

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Pete4 Contributing Member • Posts: 747
Re: EOS -SL1 or EOS M2 as first interchangeable lens camera?

The M cam is smaller than any DSLR, but the thing to remember here is that M has no VF, has no flash, slow AF and any DSLR will just walk over it as far as speed and convenience. So if you can accept little bit larger size of Rebels (T1 - T5)get it either for lower price (older models), or capabilities (newer one), but either way if SL1 is small enough, I guess everybody agrees it would be better than M and actually SL1 has some things improved even over the newest T5. Of course this is all based on specs since not many had a chance to use one yet.

RedFox88 Forum Pro • Posts: 28,206
Re: EOS -SL1 or EOS M2 as first interchangeable lens camera?
1

Peter Berglund wrote:

Sure, every user is unique but I think there are a lot of us out there, who want a Canon, but cannot decide wether to buy a SL1 now or wait for a better, faster M2.

Something tells me the autofocus of any potential EOS-M coming up will not be as fast or as accurate as the SL1 because the SL1 has a mirror which provides for faster, more accurate autofocus.  Mirrorless = slower autofocus all around.

Ed Rizk Senior Member • Posts: 2,113
Re: EOS -SL1 or EOS M2 as first interchangeable lens camera?

You're going to like using the DSLR better when you're actually shooting.  You're going to like carrying the mirror less around when you're not shooting.  This is basically the choice you are making.  I went with the DSLR.

Occasionally I lust after a NEX system.  Then I handle and shoot with one and I'm glad I have my 60D.

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Ed Rizk

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