Canon shooters suffer because of Nikon's problems.

[PhotoKhan]

KENTGA wrote:

Not sure about the Nikon issues and don't care to comment, but Canon was sooooooooooslow admitting the 1DM3 had a focus issue. Thank goodness they did and fixed my 1DM3.

Hopefully, Canon learned from this.

Kent

Not sure about Canon learning anything, but I (another 1DM3 victim) sure did - never buy any new gear until at least 6 months after release.

It's great to learn from experience, isn't it?...I've adopted the very same approach now.

PK

 

[PhotoKhan]

but they now refuse to sell parts to independent repair shops funneling all repair revenue to them and their associates.

It is quite curious that a move that benefits (protects) the consumer has been criticized around here as exemplifying the contrary.

Modern day cameras simply do not mix well with "back alley", multi-brand repair shops.

Centralizing the assistance for their cameras in a fully diagnostics/repair equipped network of accredited support centers (...that can't be that many over the simple reason that those equipments are extremely expensive...) is actually a move designed to protect the brand's quality and reputation and, consequentially, their clients.

One of the many extraordinary things the EC has made in recent years is coming up with a legal imposition for car manufacturers to still provide warranty over cars assisted in independent repair centers.

In a move illuminated by the European Commission obsession with conceptual "free competition" (...just conceptual, mind you, because the "de facto" multiple situations of price-fixing around Europe don't seem to bother them...) they dictated this absurd concept under which a brand is supposed to still honor a warranty on a car intervened by someone else.

Since today's cars are increasingly dependent from brand's proprietary diagnostics computers and special tools (my previous Volvo V70, for instance, had to be connected to Volvo's VADIS diagnostics system before any engine/electronics related work could be started on the car) it is easy to understand that no independent auto repair service provider is simply going to multiply their equipment for each one of the brand's they intend to provide support for.

As such, the EC move, while formally wrapped in "good intentions" actually works, in practice, to lower assistance price at the expense of quality and dependability.

PK

 

[Doug J]

aftab wrote:

You know what's funny?

I was reading Nikon forum today. There someone blamed Canon for Nikon users' woes. Logic? Canon has bad sensors, so Nikon has no real competition. That's why Nikon can get away with problems of D800 and D600.

Your logic is similar and equally flawed (if not more).

Are Canon users suffering? Only in the mind of those who have never used a specific Canon camera they are complaining about or in the mind of those who blame equipment for their own shortcomings.

I use 5DIII, 6D and D600 (no quality issues). 9 out of 10 times I pick Canon. If I thought I was suffering or somehow D600 had better IQ than Canons, I would have picked D600 more often.

You know who is really suffering? Visit Nikon forum for the answer.

Sensors are very very weak in Canon side unfortunately & thus there is still no real competition among two firms...

Were these recent posts yours?

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/51104190

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/51042482

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/51083293

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/50815504

 

[aftab]

DFPanno wrote:

I for one am very disappointed to see Nikon D800 and D600 shooters experiencing all their problems.

If Nikon had truly managed to "tear the cover off the ball" with these two models it would have been provided massive additional incentive for Canon to match them technologically.

I hope Canon has absorbed that pressure in any case.

The Exmor is really that good.

I've already said my piece about your logic but I will agree with your statement regarding Exmor sensors (or whatever Nikon is using in their cameras) especially at base ISO. Are you invoking that tech in hopes that Canon will develop its own version or that Canon will source it for upcoming models?

By the way, you will see many Canon users on the Nikon forum who have either bought a D800 to complement their Canon gear or who have switched altogether. Personally, I wanted my 30+ MP camera to be a Canon in order to replace my oldest camera, the 5D2, but there is no such camera on the horizon for 2013 and possibly well into 2014. That's too long to wait on a company who should have been at the forefront of sensor design. So, I bought the D800E. If I am to be enticed by a Canon hi-rez camera in the future (since I now have a hi-rez camera), it's got to be an exceptional value which, if rumor is correct, won't be if a 1 series body is to be used as a wrapper. My D800E is essentially a lost sale to Canon, an absolutely superb value notwithstanding in the future. Each lost sale adds up exponentially especially if you are going to try to compete with the D800 with 1 series bodies.

Now, Nikon has released another innovative product, the 24 MP D7100 having no AA filter. This is the first time I have considered a crop DSLR since my first DSLR in 2003.

 

[marcio_napoli]

Hi Photokhan,

I do not agree at all.

Next to where I live, I´ve always sent my gear to a very able and trusty repair shop.

They service is extremely honest, regarding to price, expected quality of repaired gear, and also time needed to fix.

They are also very nice folks to deal with.

Last time I´ve used my country´s Nikon official support center, I had a disgusting experience.

My D700 took 4 months to be repaired, and they charged almost as much as a new D700 body.

I´m pretty sure they were dishonest, as my camera was not that damaged.

What about a 70-200 2.8 I had fresh water infiltrated in ? They told me to trash it, as it was unrepairable.

Yeah, RIGHT. I just waited for the water to evaporate, and suddenly my "unrepairable" lens was as good as new.

I´ve shot thousands of images with my "unrepairable" lens since that day.

Bottom line, Nikon official support centers can be a bad joke.

Now that my local, honest and trusty repair shop won´t be able to service my cameras, I´m terrified to be stuck with that terrible official Nikon support.

Of course, YMMV.

 

[Petroglyph]

Definitely not suffering here.

 

[roustabout66]

but they now refuse to sell parts to independent repair shops funneling all repair revenue to them and their associates.

It is quite curious that a move that benefits (protects) the consumer has been criticized around here as exemplifying the contrary.

It is quite curious that a move that eliminates competition, increases wait time and increases cost to the consumer (per Roger at lensrentals) "protects" the consumer. It seems to me that the bottom line for Nikon is the thing being "protected".

 

[rsn48]

What to h^ll is an exmor?

 

[meland]

What to h^ll is an exmor?

--
Hind sight is always better than foresight, except for lost opportunity costs.

In the world of sensors it is currently the dog's bollocks. Allegedly.

 

[David Hull]

What to h^ll is an exmor?

--
Hind sight is always better than foresight, except for lost opportunity costs.

In the world of sensors it is currently the dog's bollocks. Allegedly.

Deleted (after some thought -- it wasn't that good ) (the comment not the sensor)

--
Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/26158506@N07/

 

[David Hull]

What to h^ll is an exmor?

 

[erbtype]

I really don't care what Nikon do or what their problems are. A sensor/camera can be the best in the world but it's useless in the wrong hands.

As an aside, one of the pro-snappers at work (photo-journalist) who is the only one on the desk to use Nikon (at his own expense rather than free Canon kit) has returned both his D800 and D4 and will be sticking with his D3 variants. He's replaced the D800 with a Panasonic M4/3 variant...

 

[meland]

What to h^ll is an exmor?

--
Hind sight is always better than foresight, except for lost opportunity costs.

In the world of sensors it is currently the dog's bollocks. Allegedly.

Deleted (after some thought -- it wasn't that good ) (the comment not the sensor)

--
Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/26158506@N07/

Aw! I liked it.

 

[rsn48]

Thanks, glad your reply was enlightening. I don't pay much attention to any other brands other than Canon. With all the equipment I have, I'm all in for Canon and not going to change, unless the other brand camera heals the blind and walks on water.

 

[klavrack]

What I think is true about your post is that top quality products from any brand benefit all. I'm happy with Pentax, but Pentax would not be offering what it does if it wasn't clawing for survival against not only Canikon, but equally great products from Sony, Oly and others. I don't understand the D600 gloating--whatever issues there really are are unfortunate for everyone. Regardless of that glitch, the camera is a true game-changer that will raise the bar for all our brands.

 

[David Hull]

Thanks, glad your reply was enlightening. I don't pay much attention to any other brands other than Canon. With all the equipment I have, I'm all in for Canon and not going to change, unless the other brand camera heals the blind and walks on water.

 

[Midwest]

KENTGA wrote:

Not sure about the Nikon issues and don't care to comment, but Canon was sooooooooooslow admitting the 1DM3 had a focus issue. Thank goodness they did and fixed my 1DM3.

Hopefully, Canon learned from this.

Kent

Not sure about Canon learning anything, but I (another 1DM3 victim) sure did - never buy any new gear until at least 6 months after release.

You can always spot the pioneers. They're the guys with the arrows in their backs.

 

[Midwest]

Nikon is really a non issue for me as long as they maintain what I consider to be their anti-consumer practices. Not only have they tried to implement price fixing but they now refuse to sell parts to independent repair shops funneling all repair revenue to them and their associates. Add the QC issues and they are not really an option for me at this time. It really is a shame because I think they have some very appealing cameras at good prices at the moment.

A comparison:

Canon stated that using the 3rd party Magic Lantern firmware add-on with their cameras will not void the camera's warranty unless it can be conclusively proven that ML caused damage to the camera. On the other hand I read about Nikon voiding the entire camera warranty because of a tiny crack - possibly a stress crack - in the plastic baseplate, calling it 'impact damage', when someone sends in the camera to get something totally fixed which is unrelated and known to be problematic with that model.

I wonder what Nikon would say about using Magic Lantern on its cameras if it was available. I bet it would not be what Canon says.

 

[jonrobertp]

Thanks, glad your reply was enlightening. I don't pay much attention to any other brands other than Canon. With all the equipment I have, I'm all in for Canon and not going to change, unless the other brand camera heals the blind and walks on water.

 

[lordbeau]

...and they blew it as my copy has left AF issues.

I shall be returning to Canon. 6D perhaps?