D600 price drop soon. Also to be replaced by new D600S model

Started Mar 18, 2013 | Discussions
ScottRH
ScottRH Senior Member • Posts: 1,742
Re: D600 price drop soon. Also to be replaced by new D600S model

Robin Casady wrote:

nakenergy wrote:

I don't get it. So what is Nikon fixing when the cameras are returned for this issue?

Several reports indicate they are replacing the shutter.

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Robin Casady
http://www.robincasady.com/Photo/index.html
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts."
— Bertrand Russell

Right. New version soon.

Si Gif
Si Gif Regular Member • Posts: 446
Re: D600 price drop soon. Also to be replaced by new D600S model
5

ScottRH wrote:

Robin Casady wrote:

nakenergy wrote:

I don't get it. So what is Nikon fixing when the cameras are returned for this issue?

Several reports indicate they are replacing the shutter.

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Robin Casady
http://www.robincasady.com/Photo/index.html
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts."
— Bertrand Russell

Right. New version soon.

I just got an eMail from Nikon Service Center where my D600 is. They want to know if I am willing to pay $12.99 for them to add an "s" to the logo on the camera.  I replied, "Go for it! How much extra does it cost for a new serial number?"

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Cliff
------------------
Show me the way to get out of this world/ That's where everything is

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AZBlue
AZBlue Senior Member • Posts: 1,585
Re: D600 price drop soon. Also to be replaced by new D600S model
1

Dcjones wrote:

I was talking to a Nikon sales rep. today that seems to know some inside info on the goings on with the D600.

He thinks that Nikon is going to sweep the current dust issue under the rug by replacing the D600 with an "upgraded" D600S model that will be announced soon. That will fix the dust issue but have some upgrades to "save face" like the CAM3500, and 1/8000 shutter speed. This will make the new camera be distinctly different than the old D600 so they can quietly discontinue the D600. They will then keep the D600S at the same price drop the old D600 price to clear the stock and then discontinue them.

It seems that they can not fix the issue with dust in current D600. Even the new units are experiencing the issues even after they acknowledged that it is prone to "dusting." There is obviously a design flaw that precludes a simple fix.

You quote a Nikon sales rep who "seems to know", but then everything you say is what he "thinks". That means it's an opinion, and not necessarily an informed one. The hypothesis offered by this sales rep defies logic. Nikon has a design flaw with the D600 (oil spots) that can't be fixed, so it makes more financial sense for Nikon to come up with a completely new camera - the D600S - which required a complete re-design of the camera and a re-tooling of the assembly line? And then Nikon is going to throw a couple of extra features in so the sheeple don't confuse the D600S with the D600.

Okay, I can say that we've officially gone over the deep end.

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Robin Casady Forum Pro • Posts: 12,898
Re: Tin Foil

Prairie Pal wrote:

Maybe the new shutters are under lubed and are destined to a short lifespan.

A number of the spotting reports mentioned actual debris as though paint were flaking off some mechanism. Then there are the ones that show abrasion on certain internal parts. I expect there is more to the problem than lubricant. Perhaps Seiko sent them a batch of bad shutters.

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Robin Casady
http://www.robincasady.com/Photo/index.html
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts."
— Bertrand Russell

user_name Veteran Member • Posts: 3,134
Ahhhh... I fund that less than believable...
1

I really have not followed the issue, but I would strongly suspect that the problem with the D600 oil spots has very little to do with a design issue, but a manufacturing process issue.

Simply rolling a new design is not likely to solve that issue - unless the current design is simply too difficult to manufacture.   If that were true, then an engineering design change would be one method to deal with it.

The big BUT here is that the engineering design change would need to be really big.  So big as to essentially be significant enough to call it a new model, as you allude to.

That would be hugely expensive and engineers would be hard pressed by management to make any changes as small as possible so as to not drastically impact profits.  That's simply how the industry works.

Abandoning the current design would be a huge financial loss before the NRE has been paid for, then encountering new NRE costs on top of that would really suck the profit out of the model.

Finally, there is the issue with what to do with all the cameras out in the field that are under warranty.  If you do not have a fix for the problem you are left with giving the customer a replacement camera and destroying the old one.  Again, highly unprofitable.

For a new model that is less than one year old it is simply too early to obsolete it.

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Donovan L Forum Member • Posts: 94
New shutter is not an "s" revision
1

Dcjones wrote:

I was talking to a Nikon sales rep. today that seems to know some inside info on the goings on with the D600.

Reps at that level know nothing. You're describing a decision that won't be known outside of Japan at this point in time.

He thinks that Nikon is going to sweep the current dust issue under the rug by replacing the D600 with an "upgraded" D600S model that will be announced soon.

Not an uncommon practice.

That will fix the dust issue but have some upgrades to "save face" like the CAM3500, and 1/8000 shutter speed.

That makes no sense, at all. It doesn't leave enough differentiation with the D800.

Shutters aren't "plug and play" replacements, either. You're describing a bigger shutter, which means an entire new body, everything rearranged to accommodate it. I imagine that the wider pattern cam is the same way, won't just fit a d600 body, needs everything retooled.

This will make the new camera be distinctly different than the old D600 so they can quietly discontinue the D600. They will then keep the D600S at the same price drop the old D600 price to clear the stock and then discontinue them.

Nikon is known for letting the channel run dry naturally before launching new models, with the occasional muckup like the j1 and v1.

It seems that they can not fix the issue with dust in current D600.

Really? There seem to be a lot of people getting it fixed. Simple running change, I'd imagine.

Even the new units are experiencing the issues even after they acknowledged that it is prone to "dusting." There is obviously a design flaw that precludes a simple fix.

Such as? People who actually know what they're doing say that it's not an incureable design flaw, just a materials choice issue, probably the lubricant.

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yes, most everything is in lower case. i'm mildly arthritic and seldom use my pinkies when i type.

rwl408 Senior Member • Posts: 1,827
Re: April is just around the corner :) (NT)

No text

SethG Senior Member • Posts: 1,093
Re: I find it less than credible because...
1

Robin Casady wrote:

primeshooter wrote:

Brian Caslis wrote:

primeshooter wrote:

Dcjones wrote:

I was talking to a Nikon sales rep. today that seems to know some inside info on the goings on with the D600.

...

Words fail me. I am seriously questioning why I should purchase another D800 body to try and get one that works...

Seriously. You believe this? Someone with 10 posts puts something like this up and you believe it? Send me your address, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

I don't fully believe it, but I don't "not believe it lmao. With what Nikon are doing lately...nothing would surprise me. Not even this!

When have you ever heard a Nikon rep disclosing info on future products that have not been announced? I expect something like that would get the rep fired.

Not being able to fix it is not a credible statement. They could replace any and all parts without having to rename the camera. They are not forced to come out with a new model to fix a materials or design flaw.

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Robin Casady
http://www.robincasady.com/Photo/index.html
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts."
— Bertrand Russell

I've talked with a number of Nikon reps over the last few months (at store events and CES) and the ones I've established some kind of rapport with would always say "They never tell us anything until right before or at the public announcement. And even if I *did* know something, I wouldn't be allowed to tell you."

The D600 has been out for six months. There's no way they'd have a true replacement camera out already. If they started engineering a "fix" model on the first day that oil/dust problems started appearing, they'd STILL be 6-12 months from a releasable product.

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- Seth -

brunobarolo Senior Member • Posts: 1,116
Re: I find it less than credible because...

SethG wrote:


I've talked with a number of Nikon reps over the last few months (at store events and CES) and the ones I've established some kind of rapport with would always say "They never tell us anything until right before or at the public announcement. And even if I *did* know something, I wouldn't be allowed to tell you."

The D600 has been out for six months. There's no way they'd have a true replacement camera out already. If they started engineering a "fix" model on the first day that oil/dust problems started appearing, they'd STILL be 6-12 months from a releasable product.

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- Seth -

Agreed! I would rather expect a D610 for Photokina next year which gets all the goodies the D7100 has got now. And I'm quite confident my D700 will serve me well in the meantime

dezinerd
dezinerd Senior Member • Posts: 1,069
Was this a balloon?

So, how many D600 owners would agree to have their cam fixed and get a new label on it? Seems like a great way out of this unfortunate problem.

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Dennis

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Just a Photographer Senior Member • Posts: 1,368
Re: Sure and it will come with smartphone functions as well!

Dream on!
This is just NOT going to happen with the D600.

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lordbeau Senior Member • Posts: 1,242
Re: D600 price drop soon. Also to be replaced by new D600S model

Similar to what the did with the SB900.

Bob from Plymouth
Bob from Plymouth Contributing Member • Posts: 649
If this is true......
1

......I've got a nice picture of a flying pig taken on my D600 which I'll post.

Of course the D600 will be updated at some point but it's only be on the market for about six months.

Nikon would earn themselves many more plaudits by recalling all D600 cameras already sold for an upgrade (if needed) than they would by discontinuing the model so soon. They are not that naive when it comes to marketing. A 600S would effectively abandon all those who invested in their money in the D600 and consign it to the dustbin. I can't see them doing that.

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Carl Maiorino Senior Member • Posts: 2,076
This Is Part Of The Problem...But Who Do You Really Blame...
2

It's a competitive electronics world with a rapid fire replacement cycle. Hardly a good environment for proven products making it to the shelf.

Here is the rub.  Even if the D600 was problem-free, if Canon came out with a 6D Mark II later this year that had better specs than the D600, I can guarantee you D600 users would whine about feeling neglected by Nikon, we would see posts like "Come On Nikon...", etc.  Then, when Nikon leapfrogs Canon, the Canon forums would light up similarly and the cycle continues, as it has for the past 10-12 years.  We all want the latest and greatest and too many consumers get bored with a product that is barely a year old, if even that.  If Nikon and Canon took the time to bring proven products to the shelf, these forums would be full of people complaining that Nikon and Canon are dragging their heels as they are chomping at the bit to replace their 18 month-old camera with something newer and shinier.  In some ways, the consumer is only getting what he deserves...

OP Dcjones Junior Member • Posts: 34
Re: D600 price drop soon. Also to be replaced by new D600S model
2

Some background, I am not here to troll as some have accused me of.  I am just here to research my next camera.  I am trying to figure all this out like the rest of you.   I have been reading about this issue and struck up a conversation with a local camera rep about this dust problem who basically said not to buy the D600 and wait until the problem is fixed.   I don’t know how much he knows; weather he is BSing me or not but his intentions seemed sincere.

Maybe I should clarify the conversation to not get the board in an uproar.   The only info that he “claimed” to know from Nikon is that the fix (shutter box replacement) is too expensive and that Nikon will need to reconfigure something to actually fix the problem in a cost effective manner.   I would think the rest of my post stating what he said is just his conjecture (which in my opinion also makes sense-- see below).  My apologies for not making this clear up front.

It does make a lot of sense that the shutter replacement (which is what they are doing to actually “fix” the problem) is too expensive of a fix for the camera and that Nikon will not continue to manufacture a camera with such an expensive flaw to fix.

Just think about it, put yourself in Nikon’s shoes for a minute.  You have a camera (the D600) that has an obvious flaw in the majority of the units; of which the flaw is VERY WELL KNOWN and your customer base is growing more and more angry and are sending in their cameras for services at your expense.   Your choices are following:

1. Continue to produce a camera that a majority of the units will comeback for either repetitive cleaning until the warranty is done (at Nikon’s expense), or an expensive shutter replacement (at Nikon’s expense).  Both of which will probably negate the profit margin of the unit while also reducing the demand for the product.  And at the same time take a hit to your reputation.  Would you want to continue to produce these units? Anybody with an ounce of business sense would not keep manufacturing this product and work on a fix.

2. Or would you alter the design of the units?  If it was an easy “fix” like a Quality control issue, Nikon would have already done it and the new units would not be “dusting” -- but they are.  It does seem like more drastic measures are needed so according to this guy, they are most likely working on an update such as a “refresh D600s.”

joeybob Contributing Member • Posts: 627
Re: D600 price drop soon. Also to be replaced by new D600S model
2

Dcjones wrote:

Some background, I am not here to troll as some have accused me of. I am just here to research my next camera. I am trying to figure all this out like the rest of you. I have been reading about this issue and struck up a conversation with a local camera rep about this dust problem who basically said not to buy the D600 and wait until the problem is fixed. I don’t know how much he knows; weather he is BSing me or not but his intentions seemed sincere.

Just think about it, put yourself in Nikon’s shoes for a minute. You have a camera (the D600) that has an obvious flaw in the majority of the units; of which the flaw is VERY WELL KNOWN and your customer base is growing more and more angry and are sending in their cameras for services at your expense. Your choices are following:

1. Continue to produce a camera that a majority of the units will comeback for either repetitive cleaning until the warranty is done (at Nikon’s expense), or an expensive shutter replacement (at Nikon’s expense). Both of which will probably negate the profit margin of the unit while also reducing the demand for the product. And at the same time take a hit to your reputation. Would you want to continue to produce these units? Anybody with an ounce of business sense would not keep manufacturing this product and work on a fix.

2. Or would you alter the design of the units? If it was an easy “fix” like a Quality control issue, Nikon would have already done it and the new units would not be “dusting” -- but they are. It does seem like more drastic measures are needed so according to this guy, they are most likely working on an update such as a “refresh D600s.”

The road to hell is paved with "sincere intentions"...

Unfortunately much of what you mention above could apply to issues with the D800 and there has been no word of a replacement.

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ScottRH
ScottRH Senior Member • Posts: 1,742
Re: D600 price drop soon. Also to be replaced by new D600S model

lordbeau wrote:

Similar to what the did with the SB900.

That seems to be what is happening.

lock Veteran Member • Posts: 6,202
What do the 2 options do for the customer base that "is growing more and more angry"?
1

Neither of the two solves their problems, do they ?

Note that you are suggesting " an obvious flaw in the majority of the units" !
That means more than 50% of the D600's is having it. If you do not want "to get the board in an uproar", you should not have used these words.....

lock

bocajrs
bocajrs Senior Member • Posts: 2,057
Re: What do the 2 options do for the customer base that "is growing more and more angry"?

What is the point of this thread????? What a waste of time...geez..enjoy the gear you have or move on!!!!

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OP Dcjones Junior Member • Posts: 34
Re: What do the 2 options do for the customer base that "is growing more and more angry"?

lock wrote:

Neither of the two solves their problems, do they ?

Note that you are suggesting " an obvious flaw in the majority of the units" !
That means more than 50% of the D600's is having it. If you do not want "to get the board in an uproar", you should not have used these words.....

lock

It seems like at least 50% are having the flaw.  How is altering the design to not have this issue not fixing their problem?

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