The only EF-S Lens Worthy of a Pro

Started Feb 29, 2012 | User reviews
Aaron MC New Member • Posts: 7
The only EF-S Lens Worthy of a Pro
1

The 60mm EF-S lens is the only 1.6X lens that Canon makes that is worthy of your attention. Since it is a native EF-S lens, you get a DOF benefit, and when shooting 1" away from a subject, any DOF that you can get is great.

Sharpness is near top-flight, even wide-open. Contrast is excellent. Autofocus is very fast. The only serious concern is some significant vignetting, but that disappears after going to F/4.

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Canon EF-S 60mm f/2.8 Macro USM
Telephoto macro prime lens • Canon EF-S • 0284B002
Announced: Feb 17, 2005
Aaron MC's score
4.5
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Steve Balcombe Forum Pro • Posts: 12,840
Re: The only EF-S Lens Worthy of a Pro
4

Aaron MC wrote:

The 60mm EF-S lens is the only 1.6X lens that Canon makes that is worthy of your attention. Since it is a native EF-S lens, you get a DOF benefit, and when shooting 1" away from a subject, any DOF that you can get is great.

1) EF-S lenses do NOT give a DoF benefit. At a given magnification and f-stop all lenses give the same DoF.

2) The EF-S 60/2.8 Macro does NOT focus 1" away from the subject, not even close. The minimum working distance (i.e. at 1:1 magnification) is 90 mm or just over 3.5".

skanter
skanter Forum Pro • Posts: 17,226
Re: The only EF-S Lens Worthy of a Pro
2

Aaron MC wrote:

The 60mm EF-S lens is the only 1.6X lens that Canon makes that is worthy of your attention. Since it is a native EF-S lens, you get a DOF benefit, and when shooting 1" away from a subject, any DOF that you can get is great.

Sharpness is near top-flight, even wide-open. Contrast is excellent. Autofocus is very fast. The only serious concern is some significant vignetting, but that disappears after going to F/4.

The ONLY lens worth considering? Silly statement.

Damoo Senior Member • Posts: 1,079
Re: The only EF-S Lens Worthy of a Pro

Not sure about ur analysis & nature of measure.

But the EF-S 60mm f2.8 is a great lens. Not that the EF-S 17-55mm f2.8 is any lower.

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Jerry Fusselman
Jerry Fusselman Contributing Member • Posts: 849
Re: The only EF-S Lens Worthy of a Pro

Steve Balcombe wrote:

Aaron MC wrote:

The 60mm EF-S lens is the only 1.6X lens that Canon makes that is worthy of your attention. Since it is a native EF-S lens, you get a DOF benefit, and when shooting 1" away from a subject, any DOF that you can get is great.

1) EF-S lenses do NOT give a DoF benefit. At a given magnification and f-stop all lenses give the same DoF.

2) The EF-S 60/2.8 Macro does NOT focus 1" away from the subject, not even close. The minimum working distance (i.e. at 1:1 magnification) is 90 mm or just over 3.5".

The second part of 1) should be rephrased to "At a given magnification, f-stop, and perspective, all lenses give the same DoF."  Agree with me so far?

But the first part of 1) seems to me almost like a fallacy.  For example, if you photograph a $20 gold coin, filling the frame from 1 inch away from the subject and shooting at f/8 with an EF-S camera with an EF-S lens, you will get more depth of field than if you fill the frame from 1 inch away shooting at f/8 with a full-frame camera and an EF lens.

Perhaps my previous paragraph was overly technical:  I'll offer a thought experiment to try to bolster my position.  Imagine that you are shooting a picture of a tree with both an APS-C camera and an 8x10 camera, and you want the entire tree in focus.  Which camera is going to need a tiny aperture and a long exposure on a tripod to do the job?  The 8x10.  Smaller-format cameras and lenses do indeed give a DoF benefit, provided that what you want is extra depth of field at a particular aperture and a particular perspective.

The larger format cameras need tiny apertures and long exposures to make good images precisely because the larger format has a DoF disadvantage in the sense of a narrow DoF.

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Steve Balcombe Forum Pro • Posts: 12,840
Re: The only EF-S Lens Worthy of a Pro

Jerry Fusselman wrote:

Steve Balcombe wrote:

Aaron MC wrote:

The 60mm EF-S lens is the only 1.6X lens that Canon makes that is worthy of your attention. Since it is a native EF-S lens, you get a DOF benefit, and when shooting 1" away from a subject, any DOF that you can get is great.

1) EF-S lenses do NOT give a DoF benefit. At a given magnification and f-stop all lenses give the same DoF.

2) The EF-S 60/2.8 Macro does NOT focus 1" away from the subject, not even close. The minimum working distance (i.e. at 1:1 magnification) is 90 mm or just over 3.5".

The second part of 1) should be rephrased to "At a given magnification, f-stop, and perspective, all lenses give the same DoF."  Agree with me so far?

No.

But the first part of 1) seems to me almost like a fallacy.  For example, if you photograph a $20 gold coin, filling the frame from 1 inch away from the subject and shooting at f/8 with an EF-S camera with an EF-S lens, you will get more depth of field than if you fill the frame from 1 inch away shooting at f/8 with a full-frame camera and an EF lens.

You changed the sensor, that's completely different from changing only the lens.

Jerry Fusselman
Jerry Fusselman Contributing Member • Posts: 849
Re: The only EF-S Lens Worthy of a Pro

Steve Balcombe wrote:

Jerry Fusselman wrote:

Steve Balcombe wrote:

Aaron MC wrote:

The 60mm EF-S lens is the only 1.6X lens that Canon makes that is worthy of your attention. Since it is a native EF-S lens, you get a DOF benefit, and when shooting 1" away from a subject, any DOF that you can get is great.

1) EF-S lenses do NOT give a DoF benefit. At a given magnification and f-stop all lenses give the same DoF.

2) The EF-S 60/2.8 Macro does NOT focus 1" away from the subject, not even close. The minimum working distance (i.e. at 1:1 magnification) is 90 mm or just over 3.5".

The second part of 1) should be rephrased to "At a given magnification, f-stop, and perspective, all lenses give the same DoF."  Agree with me so far?

No.

You're saying that perspective has no affect on DoF?

But the first part of 1) seems to me almost like a fallacy.  For example, if you photograph a $20 gold coin, filling the frame from 1 inch away from the subject and shooting at f/8 with an EF-S camera with an EF-S lens, you will get more depth of field than if you fill the frame from 1 inch away shooting at f/8 with a full-frame camera and an EF lens.

You changed the sensor, that's completely different from changing only the lens.

Well, you can't use an EF-S lens on a 5D, which means that its advantage in depth of field is available only on a camera using EF-S lenses.

I mainly want you to agree that perspective affects DoF.  That's the statement you said "No" to.

I also want you to explain why 8x10 photographers always seem to need tripods.  The size of the sensor or negative clearly matters.

Yet another way to put this is that it is much easier to get a large depth of field with EF-S macro lens on the camera it was designed for than to get the same depth of field on an 8x10 camera using a lens that covers 8x10.  That sounds to me exactly like the "DoF advantage" of using smaller formats that the OP was referring to.

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Doug J Veteran Member • Posts: 9,715
Re: The only EF-S Lens Worthy of a Pro

Jerry Fusselman wrote:

Steve Balcombe wrote:

Jerry Fusselman wrote:

Steve Balcombe wrote:

Aaron MC wrote:

The 60mm EF-S lens is the only 1.6X lens that Canon makes that is worthy of your attention. Since it is a native EF-S lens, you get a DOF benefit, and when shooting 1" away from a subject, any DOF that you can get is great.

1) EF-S lenses do NOT give a DoF benefit. At a given magnification and f-stop all lenses give the same DoF.

2) The EF-S 60/2.8 Macro does NOT focus 1" away from the subject, not even close. The minimum working distance (i.e. at 1:1 magnification) is 90 mm or just over 3.5".

The second part of 1) should be rephrased to "At a given magnification, f-stop, and perspective, all lenses give the same DoF."  Agree with me so far?

No.

You're saying that perspective has no affect on DoF?

But the first part of 1) seems to me almost like a fallacy.  For example, if you photograph a $20 gold coin, filling the frame from 1 inch away from the subject and shooting at f/8 with an EF-S camera with an EF-S lens, you will get more depth of field than if you fill the frame from 1 inch away shooting at f/8 with a full-frame camera and an EF lens.

You changed the sensor, that's completely different from changing only the lens.

Well, you can't use an EF-S lens on a 5D, which means that its advantage in depth of field is available only on a camera using EF-S lenses.

I mainly want you to agree that perspective affects DoF.  That's the statement you said "No" to.

I also want you to explain why 8x10 photographers always seem to need tripods.  The size of the sensor or negative clearly matters.

Yet another way to put this is that it is much easier to get a large depth of field with EF-S macro lens on the camera it was designed for than to get the same depth of field on an 8x10 camera using a lens that covers 8x10.  That sounds to me exactly like the "DoF advantage" of using smaller formats that the OP was referring to.

The issue is with this statement by the OP "Since it is a native EF-S lens, you get a DOF benefit". I believe this is incorrect, unless the registration distance affects the DOF.

Steve Balcombe Forum Pro • Posts: 12,840
Re: The only EF-S Lens Worthy of a Pro

Jerry Fusselman wrote:

Steve Balcombe wrote:

Jerry Fusselman wrote:

Steve Balcombe wrote:

Aaron MC wrote:

The 60mm EF-S lens is the only 1.6X lens that Canon makes that is worthy of your attention. Since it is a native EF-S lens, you get a DOF benefit, and when shooting 1" away from a subject, any DOF that you can get is great.

1) EF-S lenses do NOT give a DoF benefit. At a given magnification and f-stop all lenses give the same DoF.

2) The EF-S 60/2.8 Macro does NOT focus 1" away from the subject, not even close. The minimum working distance (i.e. at 1:1 magnification) is 90 mm or just over 3.5".

The second part of 1) should be rephrased to "At a given magnification, f-stop, and perspective, all lenses give the same DoF."  Agree with me so far?

No.

You're saying that perspective has no affect on DoF?

I'm saying that in the context of the 1.6x crop sensor (remember I was responding to the OP so that is a given), magnification takes account of the combined effects of focal length and focusing distance. You don't need to specify either.

Or to say the same thing another way, changing perspective (focusing distance) doesn't affect DoF if you also change the focal length to maintain magnification (subject framing).

Using a longer lens from a greater distance to maintain subject framing does increase background blur, but it doesn't change depth of field. This is a disadvantage of short macro lenses - you have to stop down just as much to get enough depth of field on the subject, but you then have less background blur which can be a problem with distracting backgrounds. Depends on the subject of course.

These are well known results, I was just correcting the inaccurate statements in the review. Discussions and debates are fine but reviews do need to be factually correct!

Steve Balcombe Forum Pro • Posts: 12,840
Re: The only EF-S Lens Worthy of a Pro

Doug J wrote:

The issue is with this statement by the OP "Since it is a native EF-S lens, you get a DOF benefit".

Yep, I was responding to that specific statement.

I believe this is incorrect, unless the registration distance affects the DOF.

Just for the record - no, it doesn't.

R2D2 Forum Pro • Posts: 17,901
Re: The only EF-S Lens Worthy of a Pro

Steve Balcombe wrote:

Jerry Fusselman wrote:

Steve Balcombe wrote:

Jerry Fusselman wrote:

Steve Balcombe wrote:

Aaron MC wrote:

The 60mm EF-S lens is the only 1.6X lens that Canon makes that is worthy of your attention. Since it is a native EF-S lens, you get a DOF benefit, and when shooting 1" away from a subject, any DOF that you can get is great.

1) EF-S lenses do NOT give a DoF benefit. At a given magnification and f-stop all lenses give the same DoF.

2) The EF-S 60/2.8 Macro does NOT focus 1" away from the subject, not even close. The minimum working distance (i.e. at 1:1 magnification) is 90 mm or just over 3.5".

The second part of 1) should be rephrased to "At a given magnification, f-stop, and perspective, all lenses give the same DoF."  Agree with me so far?

No.

You're saying that perspective has no affect on DoF?

I'm saying that in the context of the 1.6x crop sensor (remember I was responding to the OP so that is a given), magnification takes account of the combined effects of focal length and focusing distance. You don't need to specify either.

Or to say the same thing another way, changing perspective (focusing distance) doesn't affect DoF if you also change the focal length to maintain magnification (subject framing).

Using a longer lens from a greater distance to maintain subject framing does increase background blur, but it doesn't change depth of field. This is a disadvantage of short macro lenses - you have to stop down just as much to get enough depth of field on the subject, but you then have less background blur which can be a problem with distracting backgrounds. Depends on the subject of course.

These are well known results, I was just correcting the inaccurate statements in the review. Discussions and debates are fine but reviews do need to be factually correct!

+1

What is noticed is that Background Blur changes (due to perspective shift).

R2

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photonius Veteran Member • Posts: 6,824
Re: The only EF-S Lens Worthy of a Pro

Steve Balcombe wrote:

Aaron MC wrote:

The 60mm EF-S lens is the only 1.6X lens that Canon makes that is worthy of your attention. Since it is a native EF-S lens, you get a DOF benefit, and when shooting 1" away from a subject, any DOF that you can get is great.

1) EF-S lenses do NOT give a DoF benefit. At a given magnification and f-stop all lenses give the same DoF.

I think it's the original sloppy formulation.

If one compares these Nikon D700 vs Nikon 1V1 shots,

http://www.luminescentphoto.com/blog/2012/03/07/nikon-1-for-macro-photography/

it's clear that at identical ("lens") magnifications, DOF and background are identical, the image is just cropped by the crop factor.

If one compares however the "frame-filed" images (e.g. D700 at 1:1, to 1V1 at 1:3), the 1V1 has a wider field of view, and less background blur. I guess that's what is commonly viewed as the crop DOF advantage.

Here some more math:

http://www.zen20934.zen.co.uk/photography/dof/dof.htm

2) The EF-S 60/2.8 Macro does NOT focus 1" away from the subject, not even close. The minimum working distance (i.e. at 1:1 magnification) is 90 mm or just over 3.5".

Yup. Indeed, such an inaccurate article should not be classified as review.

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Doug J Veteran Member • Posts: 9,715
Re: The only EF-S Lens Worthy of a Pro

Steve Balcombe wrote:

Doug J wrote:

The issue is with this statement by the OP "Since it is a native EF-S lens, you get a DOF benefit".

Yep, I was responding to that specific statement.

I believe this is incorrect, unless the registration distance affects the DOF.

Just for the record - no, it doesn't.

Thanks for that Steve.

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