OMD shadow banding at ISO 200 (with heavy post processing)

Started Mar 14, 2013 | Discussions
badbunny Junior Member • Posts: 35
OMD shadow banding at ISO 200 (with heavy post processing)

Hi, I've had an OMD and two lenses, the 14-42 Mk2 and 45 1.8 for a few months now, and am absolutely loving it. However I am seeing banding at all ISOs, including ISO 200.  Note that this is only when heavily bringing up shadows by +3ev or more, for example when exposing for a stained glass window to retain its colours while in a dark church and wanting to bring up shadows later. I was under the impression that the OMD was very clean in the shadows, but I am seeing noticeable banding at ISO200. See the attached ISO200 examples which are +5ev lightroom adjustments to RAW files.

I'm not overly concerned about this as I don't often need to bring up shadows so much, but if my camera has abnormally high shadow banding I'd like to get it looked at while my camera is still under warranty.

Can someone try a heavily underexposed shot with their OMD at ISO200 then use +5ev boost in lightroom to see if they can see any evidence of banding like this to confirm whether this is typical?

Thanks,

Peter.



idiotekniQues
idiotekniQues Senior Member • Posts: 1,255
Re: OMD shadow banding at ISO 200 (with heavy post processing)

I have a ton of very underexposed images at iso200 because i shot them for HDR on a tripod. from -2 to -3EV

i just looked at abotu 6 of them and jacked up the exposure in lightroom all the way to the right, or 5 stops as you say.

i don't see that banding. your shots don't even look like they are cropped much. i zoomed in as well. just saw a ton of noise though in the shadows. blotchy.

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OP badbunny Junior Member • Posts: 35
Re: OMD shadow banding at ISO 200 (with heavy post processing)

Hi, the pictures are not cropped, just downsized. Thanks for that feedback, I think I will get in touch with Olympus and get it checked out.

Thanks, Peter.

idiotekniQues
idiotekniQues Senior Member • Posts: 1,255
Re: OMD shadow banding at ISO 200 (with heavy post processing)

do you get it with both lenses?

fyi the panny 20mm has known banding issues with the OM-D at higher ISO's

possible that maybe its just one of your lenses?

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OP badbunny Junior Member • Posts: 35
Re: OMD shadow banding at ISO 200 (with heavy post processing)

Hi, it's with both lenses - the two samples I posted are one from each. In general I am happy with the noise performance but I've not seen this level of banding discussed anywhere else, especially not at base ISO. I'm going to give Olympus a call tomorrow to see what they say. Thanks for the help, Peter.

MValore
MValore Regular Member • Posts: 150
Re: OMD shadow banding at ISO 200 (with heavy post processing)

I have seen similar banding using a huge amount of exposure compensation but I don't see it until 3 or more in what are generally very poorly exposed shots in the first place.  Also it does appear to be accentuated for me by the 20mm.  Generally still only an issue when working towards the extremes.  I think it'd be better to crank up the iso and get a properly exposed shot.  Issue gone.

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texinwien Veteran Member • Posts: 3,326
+5EV on a 200ISO photo is like 6400ISO
1

badbunny wrote:

Hi, it's with both lenses - the two samples I posted are one from each. In general I am happy with the noise performance but I've not seen this level of banding discussed anywhere else, especially not at base ISO. I'm going to give Olympus a call tomorrow to see what they say. Thanks for the help, Peter.

For future reference, the best combination of ISO Setting plus post-processing EC you can choose for such a shot (based on what is known about the E-M5 sensor) would be to take the shot at ISO 800 and boost it three EV or take it at ISO 1600 and boost it two EV in post-processing.

tex

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OP badbunny Junior Member • Posts: 35
Re: OMD shadow banding at ISO 200 (with heavy post processing)

Hi, thanks for your message. Have you seen this banding when not using the 20mm? I'm just surprised to see this at the base ISO of the camera.

I can work around this, but if it's not normal then I'd like it looked at while still under warranty. I called Olympus earlier, the outcome of which is that I need to email them some examples later.

Thanks, Peter.

OP badbunny Junior Member • Posts: 35
Re: +5EV on a 200ISO photo is like 6400ISO

Hi, the first sample is exposed for the stained glass window colours, with the intention to bring up the shadows in post, which I unfortunately can't because of this banding. The second shot was a pre-flash shot to check I was killing ambient sufficiently to get the effect I was after, but is another good example of the banding that I had to hand.

Peter.

texinwien Veteran Member • Posts: 3,326
Understood

badbunny wrote:

Hi, the first sample is exposed for the stained glass window colours, with the intention to bring up the shadows in post, which I unfortunately can't because of this banding. The second shot was a pre-flash shot to check I was killing ambient sufficiently to get the effect I was after, but is another good example of the banding that I had to hand.

Peter.

I'm just trying to offer some helpful tips for your future consideration, and am not criticizing your choices here.

Your best bet on a shot where you think you'll need to boost EC by +5 EV in post (with the E-M5) is to use 800 ISO or 1600 ISO (that is, boost by 2 to 3 EV using the camera's ISO) and do the rest of your boosting (3 or 2 EV, respectively) in post-processing.

You will end up with an image that is just as bright as one taken at 200ISO and boosted 5EV in post, but you will have chosen the optimal ISO in terms of minimizing noise, based on the E-M5's sensor.

On the 20mm banding - unfortunately, I have (random) trouble with banding from the 20mm on my E-M5, and am not able to boost images taken with it by that many EV, most of the time. It's unfortunate.

I have not noticed much banding in shots taken with my 45mm, however, even when increasing EC by several stops in post-processing.

If I were you, I think I'd have it checked out - another forum poster also had banding issues with boosted shots. He had his camera checked and Olympus replaced it, I believe, although I don't recall what the diagnosis of the problem was.

Good luck getting it worked out!

tex

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Michael T Regular Member • Posts: 247
Re: OMD shadow banding at ISO 200 with 75mm prime also

badbunny wrote:

Hi, it's with both lenses - the two samples I posted are one from each. In general I am happy with the noise performance but I've not seen this level of banding discussed anywhere else, especially not at base ISO. I'm going to give Olympus a call tomorrow to see what they say. Thanks for the help, Peter.

Just check the under exposed photos and it happens to my 75mm prime also.  You can see it at the original photo already but clear if you push up the shadow.



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OP badbunny Junior Member • Posts: 35
Re: Understood
1

Hii, I didn't take any offence at what you said That's the trouble with forums where you can't see people's expressions or the tone of what they say...  any feedback from other users is welcome, as I could only find 2 other comments about non Pana 20 1.7 banding, and nothing about banding at low ISO.  For me the first sample is a real type of shot that this could effect, for which I wouldn't have expected a problem. The second one less so as it wasn't a final shot, but still surprising to me to see this at ISO200.

Having read a lot of other threads about potential causes of banding I'm going to run the following tests tonight:

  • Does IBIS setting influence it?
  • Does landscape/portrait orientation influence it?
  • Does proximity to mobile phone influence it?
  • Does it occur with no lens fitted?

Can anyone think of any other tests that might help rule things out before I send a load of information through to Olympus?

Thanks, Peter.

Michael T Regular Member • Posts: 247
Re: Understood

I checked some photos taken with PL25mm at the same trite as my last samples, ISO 200, still see slight banding at shadow when push up but not that obvious.  Will test with the 12mm & 40-150mm to see what happen.

Michael

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OP badbunny Junior Member • Posts: 35
Re: Understood

Thanks Michael, I appreciate the help!   Peter.

Michael T Regular Member • Posts: 247
Re: Understood

badbunny wrote:

Thanks Michael, I appreciate the help! Peter.

No thanks at all. We are on the same boat. Really want to find out wha happen. Actually thanks for bringing this up. Hope that more EM5 users can check and post their findings here.

Michael

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PixelBob New Member • Posts: 5
Re: OMD shadow banding at ISO 200 (with heavy post processing)

Any update on this? What did Olympus say?

PixelBob New Member • Posts: 5
Re: OMD shadow banding at ISO 200 (with heavy post processing)

This might be related to this http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3506640 where I'm detailing my own experience and include a response from Olympus.

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