5D Mark III photos with flash dark?

Started Mar 14, 2013 | Discussions
mimilou Junior Member • Posts: 39
5D Mark III photos with flash dark?

Today I was testing some focusing stuff.  I took nearly identical shots with my 60D and my 5D mark 3.  The 60D had the 17-55 on it, and the Mark 3 had Tamron's 24-70.  I set both @ f/4, 1/125, ISO 100, with flash (430 ex ii) bounced straight up on ETTL at -1/3 FEC.  Each lens was zoomed to its max focal length so I guess if we take into account the crop factor of the 60D, the 60D was actually @ 88 mm to the 5D's 70.  I found that the shots from the Mark III were a lot darker than the 60D.  I had to up the FEC by 2/3 to 1 stop to get the same exposure on the Mark III.  I put the 24-70 on the 60D just to check the results to see if it wasn't a lens issue, which I didn't think it was, and the shots were just as bright as with the 17-55.  I read a thread in this forum several weeks back (which I can't find) where someone had a Mark III and possibly a Rebel and the shots with the Mark III were much darker with a flash, but that was with a diffuser on.  I had no diffuser on for these shots.  Is there any reason this should be happening or is this just an issue/feature/something I have to learn to live with on the Mark III?

Canon EOS 5D Canon EOS 5D Mark III Canon EOS 60D
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str8tshooter Forum Member • Posts: 65
Re: 5D Mark III photos with flash dark?

Are you comparing the pictures on your computer or the back of the LCD screens?

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Lemming51
Lemming51 Forum Pro • Posts: 14,741
Re: 5D Mark III photos with flash dark?

Samples?

"Nearly identical"?  What's different?  Note that if you have different framing, subjects, etc. then ETTL may read the scenes differently and tell the flash to use different power levels even if you've fixed the settings for ISO, shutter, and aperture.

Same picture style?   Jpg directly out of camera or the same for CR2?  Maybe ALO set on the 60D and not on the 5D III?

mimilou wrote:

Today I was testing some focusing stuff. I took nearly identical shots with my 60D and my 5D mark 3. The 60D had the 17-55 on it, and the Mark 3 had Tamron's 24-70. I set both @ f/4, 1/125, ISO 100, with flash (430 ex ii) bounced straight up on ETTL at -1/3 FEC. Each lens was zoomed to its max focal length so I guess if we take into account the crop factor of the 60D, the 60D was actually @ 88 mm to the 5D's 70. I found that the shots from the Mark III were a lot darker than the 60D. I had to up the FEC by 2/3 to 1 stop to get the same exposure on the Mark III. I put the 24-70 on the 60D just to check the results to see if it wasn't a lens issue, which I didn't think it was, and the shots were just as bright as with the 17-55. I read a thread in this forum several weeks back (which I can't find) where someone had a Mark III and possibly a Rebel and the shots with the Mark III were much darker with a flash, but that was with a diffuser on. I had no diffuser on for these shots. Is there any reason this should be happening or is this just an issue/feature/something I have to learn to live with on the Mark III?

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OP mimilou Junior Member • Posts: 39
Re: 5D Mark III photos with flash dark?

I compared them first on the back of the LCD screens and then on the computer and they were darker on the Mark III in both places.

OP mimilou Junior Member • Posts: 39
Re: 5D Mark III photos with flash dark?

The subjects were exactly the same (I was in my bathroom shooting shells on a windowsill).  I was shooting in RAW and the ALO is not turned on on the 60D (or the Mark III either).  The framing was as close to identical as I could get it between the two cameras.  I'm sure there is room for small error there but it is very, very close.  The shots were taken within minutes (if that) of each other as I had both cameras on the counter and was just switching the flash out between them.  The picture styles are the same (I never use them and I don't think they matter in RAW?  But I did note that they are the same.)  I think I mentioned this in my initial post but I was zoomed to the max focal length on both lenses so 55 mm on the 17-55, and 70 on the 24-70, so there was obviously a difference in FL and add in the crop factor of the 60D as well and that also factors in.  But is it really THAT much of a difference that it would cause so much of a difference in the brightness/lighting in the shots?

canon person Senior Member • Posts: 1,586
What I do is:

I add +2/3 stop of flash exposure compensation and that seems to help greatly.  I don't find the 580EX flash exposures extremely accurate with my 5D3 however.

Canon Person

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PeterY Senior Member • Posts: 2,040
Re: 5D Mark III photos with flash dark?

mimilou wrote:

Today I was testing some focusing stuff. I took nearly identical shots with my 60D and my 5D mark 3. The 60D had the 17-55 on it, and the Mark 3 had Tamron's 24-70. I set both @ f/4, 1/125, ISO 100, with flash (430 ex ii) bounced straight up on ETTL at -1/3 FEC. Each lens was zoomed to its max focal length so I guess if we take into account the crop factor of the 60D, the 60D was actually @ 88 mm to the 5D's 70. I found that the shots from the Mark III were a lot darker than the 60D. I had to up the FEC by 2/3 to 1 stop to get the same exposure on the Mark III. I put the 24-70 on the 60D just to check the results to see if it wasn't a lens issue, which I didn't think it was, and the shots were just as bright as with the 17-55. I read a thread in this forum several weeks back (which I can't find) where someone had a Mark III and possibly a Rebel and the shots with the Mark III were much darker with a flash, but that was with a diffuser on. I had no diffuser on for these shots. Is there any reason this should be happening or is this just an issue/feature/something I have to learn to live with on the Mark III?

Perfectly normal. I don't know what it is but this happened to me when I first got my 5D mk2. I compared exact shots from a 50D, even with the same lens, same setting and for some odd reason the ff body seems to communicate differently with the flash then the crop body. If you try the exact same thing but set the flash to manual instead of ETTL, then the results will be closer.

It is darker but the richness in the details are far superior on the ff. Believe me it took me a long time to love my 5D mk2. It is a MAJOR adjustment from a crop body.

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OP mimilou Junior Member • Posts: 39
Re: What I do is:

Thank you.  I found that upping the compensation by about 2/3 from where it was with the 60D seemed to make it good, so that is working for now and I am good with it!  

LaszloBencze
LaszloBencze Contributing Member • Posts: 761
Re: 5D Mark III photos with flash dark?

I have found similar problems with the flash and either of the 5d cameras I own. Sometimes the flash puts out too little power, sometimes too much. I'm always having to compensate. It's annoying but by paying attention the problem can be solved.

OP mimilou Junior Member • Posts: 39
Re: 5D Mark III photos with flash dark?

Thank you.  I have generally been using the flash on manual off camera and have had no issues there, so I am glad about that.  Overall I am really loving the 5D III so far.  I still use both the 60D and the 5D III but the 5D is by far my favorite for portraits so far.  Now to sort out the issue that I am having with my new Tamron 24-70 back focusing at 70 mm :/.

Zeee Forum Pro • Posts: 16,734
Re: 5D Mark III photos with flash dark?

ETTL is a great tool but I would not try to compare. It is a computer trying to make it's best guess. You need to learn to interpret the scene as best you can burt there will always be some FEC involved. As stated nothing beats manual.     

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/51011920

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paqman Contributing Member • Posts: 588
Re: 5D Mark III photos with flash dark?

i just got a 5dm3 and coming from my 7d, i thought the 5dm3 pics were darker too (well, not thought, they are!).

you might try your bathroom/shells experiment WITHOUT the flash at all and see if exposure in general is still darker on 5dm3.

my experience so far is that the 5dm3 exposes a bit darker but the color is 'nicer' (can't explain how really) and there's no blown out highlights on shots with a broad range of dark and light (compared again to 7d).

having both these cameras is cool though, cuz my new 24-105 that came with the 5dm3 works great on the 7d too and might be a perfect vacation combo (and give me the built-in flash without having to lug the 580ex as well).

anyway, try it without flash at all and compare.  might help.

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shawnfb Contributing Member • Posts: 570
Re: 5D Mark III photos with flash dark?

two different cameras, lenses... no?

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shawn

dave_bass5
dave_bass5 Veteran Member • Posts: 6,999
Re: 5D Mark III photos with flash dark?

Could also have been the flash metering seeing a different scene, due to the different focal lengths.

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tim73
tim73 Regular Member • Posts: 477
Re: 5D Mark III photos with flash dark?

Matrix metering can be somewhat capricious, especially under high-contrast conditions.  Strong highlights - which are especially likely with flash - can have a disproportionate effect.  Centre-weighted metering might be more consistent.  Give it a try.

OP mimilou Junior Member • Posts: 39
Re: 5D Mark III photos with flash dark?

Zee Char wrote:

ETTL is a great tool but I would not try to compare. It is a computer trying to make it's best guess. You need to learn to interpret the scene as best you can burt there will always be some FEC involved. As stated nothing beats manual. 

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/51011920

Thanks!  You are right, it is a computer.  I generally do use the flash in manual (and not on camera).  I had it in ETTL just to compare something else and this issue cropped up as a result, ha ha!

OP mimilou Junior Member • Posts: 39
Re: 5D Mark III photos with flash dark?

dave_bass5 wrote:

Could also have been the flash metering seeing a different scene, due to the different focal lengths.

This was actually one of my theories.

OP mimilou Junior Member • Posts: 39
Re: 5D Mark III photos with flash dark?

Initially I had the 17-55 on the 60D and the 24-70 on the Mark III, but I actually put the 24-70 on the 60D as well just to see if it was a lens thing and got the same results as with the 17-55.

shawnfb wrote:

two different cameras, lenses... no?

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shawn

OP mimilou Junior Member • Posts: 39
Re: 5D Mark III photos with flash dark?

Thanks!  Overall I find the metering/exposure of the Mark III with no flash to be pretty much the same as the 60D, with the exception of low light areas.  If I am in a room with light (but low light), what the Mark III meter shows as a correct exposure is actually underexposed by about 2/3 to 1 stop.  I have learned to compensate for this and it's not actually a situation that I shoot in a lot so it's fine.

You are right, the color on the Mark III is "nicer"...I know what you mean!

paqman wrote:

i just got a 5dm3 and coming from my 7d, i thought the 5dm3 pics were darker too (well, not thought, they are!).

you might try your bathroom/shells experiment WITHOUT the flash at all and see if exposure in general is still darker on 5dm3.

my experience so far is that the 5dm3 exposes a bit darker but the color is 'nicer' (can't explain how really) and there's no blown out highlights on shots with a broad range of dark and light (compared again to 7d).

having both these cameras is cool though, cuz my new 24-105 that came with the 5dm3 works great on the 7d too and might be a perfect vacation combo (and give me the built-in flash without having to lug the 580ex as well).

anyway, try it without flash at all and compare. might help.

Zeee Forum Pro • Posts: 16,734
Re: 5D Mark III photos with flash dark?

Could also have been the flash metering seeing a different scene, due to the different focal lengths.

Very good point.

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