Greetings Nikon Lens Forum...major Issue inside...

Started Mar 10, 2013 | Discussions
Grevture Veteran Member • Posts: 4,188
Re: grey market or local?

ADMint wrote:

Dude I don't care who it is, when you spend the type of money you spend on "Pro" lenses, whether made by Canon, Nikon, and any other big time lens maker, you expect it to last; and if it should fail or need repair, you should be able to have it repaired at least within a 10 year period. I don't think that's asking too much.

Effectively, what you are demanding of Nikon (and Canon and others) is a ability to foresee the future, and that just ain't going to happen.

And this line "Look, the 28-70/2.8 is a notorious lens for breakdowns and expensive repairs" is laughable and makes it seem like it's our fault for not seeing into the future. HUH????

Not our fault, no. But no really a deliberate fault at Nikons part either.

I can also get frustrated when things don't work they way I want, or when companies (or authorities, or friends, or coworkers, or shop attendants ...) disappoint me. But I try also to see if there might be another side of the coin, I just don't automatically assume everything is done out of malice, greed, or sloppiness. Some things just don't work out they way we want and when look into it there might not really be anyone to blame.

Nikon's actions of late - not allowing for third party repairs, not selling parts to outsiders, QA issues, and slowly declining customer service really is something to be concerned about if you own Nikon gear.

I have heard and read lots of indications Nikons customer service in the US is not what it used to be, nor as it should be. That does not necessarily mean this is a global Nikon issue. Where I live, Nikon is (and has for some years been) soundly outclassing Canon in terms of customer care and service (and consequently won over a large chunk of the pro market in the process).

So parts of what is frustrating you might be so much a Nikon issue, but a Nikon USA issue.

Additionally, you now get the worry about whether they will or won't miraculously discover your warranted item(s) has... impact damage, even though you've not done so much as breath too hard on the item. Suddenly the warranty you thought you had is null & void and you're stuck with a huge repair bill. Yes, very comforting indeed owning Nikon gear these days.

As is owning gear from any camera manufacturer.

And so, are the other guys better? I don't know, I only have Nikon.

Generally speaking, and from what I have seen in 30+ years as a photographer, no, the others are not doing better. What I can see is that every company seem to go through periods where they really stay on top of issues, quality control and general customer satisfaction, then there seem are bad spells when things are less good. Nikon had a bad period some years ago, as anyone who was an early D2H customer ... And the whole D2 generation of professional Nikon cameras was, honestly speaking, just a very bad period. And then Nikon picked it up again and Canon had a bad run for a few years - You should have seen the Canon pro gear forum a few years back in the heydays of the Eos 1D Mark III debacle ...

I am fully aware that hearing that other manufacturers also do badly at times will not make your 28-70 magically start working again or lessening your frustration one bit. I am just trying to provide with some perspective.

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I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every moment of it!
By the way, film is not dead.
It just smell funny

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Rence Forum Member • Posts: 58
Re: Greetings Nikon Lens Forum...major Issue inside...

Have you actually contacted Nikon and asked if the part(s) are available? Your repair shop may be using this as an excuse for their own inadequacies.

OP JMD-70 Senior Member • Posts: 2,092
Re: Greetings Nikon Lens Forum...major Issue inside...

I wrote:

Check this, I have a serious problem and I'm trying to prevent having a $1700 paper weight on my hands! You see, I sent my 28-70 F/2.8 in for repair at a local D.C. repair shop,...(Google). This was due to the lens suddenly stopped zooming or focusing,...I forget because it's been at the shop for so long! Apparently, there is a piece in the lens that enables the "lens" to zoom! I was told that it's a precision piece that is shaped like a tuning fork, etc.

About 3 years into ownership of this lens,...the aperature spring broke and it was repaired under warranty.  From then on, it was rock solid,...at least until now.

Anyway, I'm being told that Nikon doesn't have the part in stock. Well, I was told that for 4 to 6 months. Nor did they have the tech data so that it could be made at a local machine shop, etc. Note, my lens has been out of commission since July of 2012! Yes,..that long! Well, about a month ago, I was finally asked,..."do you want us to send your lens to Nikon?" What!,...I'm thinking,...damn,...you could have done that 5 months ago. Well, they sent it to NIkon,..I believe it was sent to Nikon in Melville NY and about 30 days passed again before I did a status check and NOW I'm told it cannot be repaired! So naturally, I'm thinking at like $1700-per-hour! I cannot believe or wnat to accept this. I then asked the Customer Service 'person',..."So, what are you saying,...

Some of those that commented may have missed where I stated that the local repair shop sent the lens to Melville NY,...at least they said they did.

I will have a $1700 paperweight now?" He didn't answer,...we a little talked more,...and again I asked the question,...Are you saying I'll now have a $1700 paperweight?,...and he finally answered,..."that's about the size of it".

Looking for my receipt,...I know I paid a hefty fee for this lens,...anyway,..it'll be a hefty fee to replace it with current 2.8 equivalent.

Now, I may not get the lens repaired,..but I'll prolly never spend big bucks on another lens ever again!

Nikon, this is "STILL" unexcuseable! Fail,...Major Fail,..Freak'n Major Fail!

I very aware of the Nikkor 24-70 existance!  In fact, I have one.

The lens is a USA lens,..not grey market.

Anyway, I appreciate all the assistance I can get on this and will let all know how it turns out after I get the lens back and try to get the part number of the broken tuning-fork shaped part.

I've been thinking about down grading,...wouldhave bought the D600,...but the oil/dust issue kept me away.  I'm also thinking about returning to DX,...D7100!  But I don't want a hybrid system,...1/2 FF,...1/2 DX.

Yes Steve, insurance would have served me well in this case,...heck,..it would serve well in any case.

Cheers...

JMD
...D3s/D3/WT-4/Eye-Fi 8GB X2 Pro
......ITP Pro 2.0
.........Nikon forever~
Yes! The Eye-Fi works with D3 and D3s!

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Shaun_Nyc
Shaun_Nyc Senior Member • Posts: 2,285
Re: Some thoughts ...

Grevture wrote:

JMD-70 wrote:

Check this, I have a serious problem and I'm trying to prevent having a $1700 paper weight on my hands! You see, I sent my 28-70 F/2.8 in for repair at a local D.C. repair shop,...(Google). THis was due to the lens suddenly stopped zooming or focusing,...I forget because it's been at the shop for so long! Apparently, there is a piece in the lens that enables the "lens" to zoom! I was told that it's a precision piece that is shaped like a tuning fork, etc. Anyway, I'm being told that Nikon doesn't have the part in stock. Well, I was told that for 4 to 6 months. Nor did they have the tech data so that it could be made at a local machine shop, etc. Note, my lens has been out of commission since July of 2012! Yes,..that long! Well, about a month ago, I was finally asked,..."do you want us to send your lens to Nikon?" What!,...I'm thinking,...damn,...you could have done that 5 months ago. Well, they sent it to NIkon,..I believe it was sent to Nikon in Melville NY and about 30 days passed again before I did a status check and NOW I'm told it cannot be repaired! So naturally, I'm thinking at like $1700-per-hour! I cannot believe or wnat to accept this. I then asked the Customer Service 'person',..."So, what are you saying,...I will have a $1700 paperweight now?" He didn't answer,...we a little talked more,...and again I asked the question,...Are you saying I'll now have a $1700 paperweight?,...and he finally answered,..."that's about the size of it".

I can feel you pain, but ...

First, as several others have pointed out, it seem to me the main culprit in causing the long delay is your local shop, not Nikon.

Second, this is a lens that was replaced by the AF-S 24/70/2.8 in 2007, and as far as I understand the 28-70 was actually not produced for a while even before that, so it is probably at least like six years ago they stopped manufacturing this lens. Now, supposedly, Nikon aim at keeping spare parts around for ten years after a lens was last manufactured, but the 28-70/2.8 - as nice as it is in many other ways - is unfortunately a design prone to many breakdowns. Search this forum, and you will find quite a few threads on the very same brakedown you had. So Nikon might have run out of some of these spare parts a bit earlier then expected.

It was sold from authorized dealers until early 2008, I think I paid 1100 in 2005.. In any case it's ridiculous. Considering I live down the rd from nikon melville I would probably smash it on their steps with a thankyou note

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(unknown member) Veteran Member • Posts: 4,585
Re: grey market or local?

Grevture wrote:

ADMint wrote:

Dude I don't care who it is, when you spend the type of money you spend on "Pro" lenses, whether made by Canon, Nikon, and any other big time lens maker, you expect it to last; and if it should fail or need repair, you should be able to have it repaired at least within a 10 year period. I don't think that's asking too much.

Effectively, what you are demanding of Nikon (and Canon and others) is a ability to foresee the future, and that just ain't going to happen.

I think that's a rather dim and shallow response to what's actually stated. Sounds like Nikon spin.

Anyway my concern is what's happening with Nikon and their support here in the USA. If they're treating you like a rock star elsewhere and your love affair with them is good, happy for you.

Peace.

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Grevture Veteran Member • Posts: 4,188
Re: grey market or local?

ADMint wrote:

Grevture wrote:

ADMint wrote:

Dude I don't care who it is, when you spend the type of money you spend on "Pro" lenses, whether made by Canon, Nikon, and any other big time lens maker, you expect it to last; and if it should fail or need repair, you should be able to have it repaired at least within a 10 year period. I don't think that's asking too much.

Effectively, what you are demanding of Nikon (and Canon and others) is a ability to foresee the future, and that just ain't going to happen.

I think that's a rather dim and shallow response to what's actually stated. Sounds like Nikon spin.

Well I find your view on the matter rather naive, so I guess we are about even then

Anyway my concern is what's happening with Nikon and their support here in the USA. If they're treating you like a rock star elsewhere and your love affair with them is good, happy for you.

You re certainly entitled to be unhappy to what is going on with Nikon in the US, and from what I read you are far from alone. But that is not the equivalent of Nikon as a whole having the same problems - which appeared to be your point.

I have no particular love affair with Nikon, I work with many different systems and consequently also follow forums for several brands. It seem for every brand there are some portion of the users which are upset about their particular brand "dropping the ball", "ignoring their customers", "lacking in quality control" and so on. And it seem every such group think this is a unique problem to their brand. Its not.

From what I can see it appears all the well known camera brands (Canon, Nikon, Olympus, Pentax, Pansonic, Sony) seem roughly about equal in their overall quality control and customer care. There are however lots of regional variations, and also issues come and go over time and it seem every manufacturer have their share of problematic models (of lenses or cameras).

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By the way, film is not dead.
It just smell funny

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pavi1 Veteran Member • Posts: 6,868
Re: Greetings Nikon Lens Forum...major Issue inside...
1

photoreddi wrote:

I don't know the time limit manufacturer's must maintain parts after a product is discontinued, but I recall being told a couple of times about 15 years ago that it was 7 years, not 10, when I tried asking about getting parts for some Sony products (TV and Radio).

Myth, in the USA there is no requirement for a manufacture to do anything but honor their warranty. They can supply parts as long or short as they desire.

If you disagree, produce the law. My research says, myth.

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WSSA #44

Guidenet
Guidenet Forum Pro • Posts: 15,748
Posistive spin

Thank you Grevture for a reasonable and respectful reply. I'm in the US and I've had excellent service from Nikon here over the years. I mean excellent.

You also have to understand there will always be complainers regardless of whether concerns really happened to them or not. They often feel the need to complain and denigrate anyone who feels differently, calling them fanboys and what not. You find them in all walks of life including the home and workplace. Some people are just not happy people basically. They will not change regardless of your welcome positive spin on things.

So, thanks again.

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Grevture Veteran Member • Posts: 4,188
Re: Posistive spin

Guidenet wrote:

Thank you Grevture for a reasonable and respectful reply. I'm in the US and I've had excellent service from Nikon here over the years. I mean excellent.

That is good to hear.

But, I have to say much of what I read about Nikon USA is worrying. Its not just a few forum posters, but a rather significant number which has brought up what seem like valid concerns over the past few years. Add to that people like Thom Hogan who also seem less the thrilled about the service commitment from Nikon USA. And the US market is important.

You also have to understand there will always be complainers regardless of whether concerns really happened to them or not. They often feel the need to complain and denigrate anyone who feels differently, calling them fanboys and what not. You find them in all walks of life including the home and workplace. Some people are just not happy people basically. They will not change regardless of your welcome positive spin on things.

I have been hanging around in various mailing lists, news groups (anyone remember those) and forums for the past 15 years, so I do recognize what you describe. Some people only seem satisfied when they are miserable

What irritate me is the tendency some people have to take isolated things and make those into broad patterns. Sort of "My lens broke down. So Nikons quality control sucks." (ok, now I am exaggerating a bit). As mentioned earlier, this is not at all a Nikon only thing - try following some of the other brand forums here at Dpreview ... Man, there are lots of sour grapes and lost of crying about wolves out there!

Lets face it, things brake down. Some things more often then others. I think it is pretty clear the AF-S 28-70/2.8, good as it was optically, was not one of Nikons better designs. They seem to brake down more often then other lenses, and are very expensive to fix. And consequently Nikon has run out of some crucial spare parts for that model earlier then anticipated. That is bad design combined with bad planning.

But making that into Nikon being a general failure ... That is a bit ridiculous. If that makes Nikon a failure, then all camera manufacturers are failures.

So, thanks again.

Right back at you!

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By the way, film is not dead.
It just smell funny

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photoreddi Veteran Member • Posts: 7,973
Being obnoxious won't win you any style points

pavi1 wrote:

photoreddi wrote:


I don't know the time limit manufacturer's must maintain parts after a product is discontinued, but I recall being told a couple of times about 15 years ago that it was 7 years, not 10, when I tried asking about getting parts for some Sony products (TV and Radio).

Myth, in the USA there is no requirement for a manufacture to do anything but honor their warranty. They can supply parts as long or short as they desire.

Where's the myth? I'm only repeating what I was told. That happened. No myth. I don't know why two Sony employees in the NYC Sony Style store (several years before Sony eliminated their repair/parts department) would fabricate a myth that would only be counter to Sony's interest. They'd be more likely to tell me what you're saying. If this parts requirement isn't true today, it may have been true 15 years ago.

If you disagree, produce the law. My research says, myth.

Hmm, you disagreed with me and say that you have researched the issue, so it seems that you're more obligated to produce the research than for me to waste my time trying to find what you could produce in less than a minute, unless you're all bluster and what you're saying is more myth than fact. I'm willing to accept what you're saying, but only after I get a chance to evaluate credibility of your as yet unidentified research.

sandy b
sandy b Veteran Member • Posts: 9,483
If they won't fix it, and your brave enough..
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sandy b
sandy b Veteran Member • Posts: 9,483
Parts and repair store
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pavi1 Veteran Member • Posts: 6,868
Re: Being obnoxious won't win you any style points

photoreddi wrote:

pavi1 wrote:

photoreddi wrote:


I don't know the time limit manufacturer's must maintain parts after a product is discontinued, but I recall being told a couple of times about 15 years ago that it was 7 years, not 10, when I tried asking about getting parts for some Sony products (TV and Radio).

Myth, in the USA there is no requirement for a manufacture to do anything but honor their warranty. They can supply parts as long or short as they desire.

Where's the myth? I'm only repeating what I was told. That happened. No myth. I don't know why two Sony employees in the NYC Sony Style store (several years before Sony eliminated their repair/parts department) would fabricate a myth that would only be counter to Sony's interest. They'd be more likely to tell me what you're saying. If this parts requirement isn't true today, it may have been true 15 years ago.

If you disagree, produce the law. My research says, myth.

Hmm, you disagreed with me and say that you have researched the issue, so it seems that you're more obligated to produce the research than for me to waste my time trying to find what you could produce in less than a minute, unless you're all bluster and what you're saying is more myth than fact. I'm willing to accept what you're saying, but only after I get a chance to evaluate credibility of your as yet unidentified research.

Google could be your buddy.

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WSSA #44

photoreddi Veteran Member • Posts: 7,973
Re: Being obnoxious won't win you any style points

pavi1 wrote:


If you disagree, produce the law. My research says, myth.

Hmm, you disagreed with me and say that you have researched the issue, so it seems that you're more obligated to produce the research than for me to waste my time trying to find what you could produce in less than a minute, unless you're all bluster and what you're saying is more myth than fact. I'm willing to accept what you're saying, but only after I get a chance to evaluate credibility of your as yet unidentified research.

Google could be your buddy.

As I thought. You were either unable to offer anything to back up your specious claim or you choose to remain obnoxious to the end.

pavi1 Veteran Member • Posts: 6,868
Re: Being obnoxious won't win you any style points

photoreddi wrote:

pavi1 wrote:


If you disagree, produce the law. My research says, myth.

Hmm, you disagreed with me and say that you have researched the issue, so it seems that you're more obligated to produce the research than for me to waste my time trying to find what you could produce in less than a minute, unless you're all bluster and what you're saying is more myth than fact. I'm willing to accept what you're saying, but only after I get a chance to evaluate credibility of your as yet unidentified research.

Google could be your buddy.

As I thought. You were either unable to offer anything to back up your specious claim or you choose to remain obnoxious to the end.

No it only took minutes to find out that it is a myth. There is no law in the USA requiring parts supply for any length of time..

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WSSA #44

(unknown member) Veteran Member • Posts: 4,585
Re: Being obnoxious won't win you any style points

People just make up stuff to suit their own bravado, however false it may be.

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