New Canon on 22nd March?

Started Mar 7, 2013 | Discussions
jrkliny
jrkliny Veteran Member • Posts: 3,796
Re: Call your bluf
2

I am the individual who objected to the term "megapixel wars." But I did not intend to touch off a war between forum members. I think we all know that that manufacturers have faced compromises between increasing megapixels and overall sensor performance with noise being the main concern. The issue is really clear with point and shoot cameras. I have a G9 which does really well in bright light, but I hate the noise when I go beyond ISO 100 or 200. So clearly manufacturers have tried to balance the compromise and compete in the marketplace. I guess you can use the term megapixels wars to describe this. I don't like the term but see no reason to make a big stink about it.

The point in this discussion is that Canon seems to be stagnant and falling behind. Nikon seems to continue to introduce APS-C and FF cameras with higher megapixel counts, better dynamic range and at least equivalent high ISO performance. I am hoping Canon is finally ready to introduce an improved sensor. Even so I am not expecting much. Maybe some modest improvements in resolution/pixel count, dynamic range and high ISO performance. Obviously if Canon introduces camera with higher pixel counts and more noise, they will have failed and lost another battle. Maybe they will even lose me as a customer. I have been waiting quite a while for the opportunity to upgrade to something better than I have.

-- hide signature --

Jim, AKA camperjim, formerly from liny, Long Island New York

 jrkliny's gear list:jrkliny's gear list
Canon EOS 600D Canon EOS Rebel T6s Canon EF 35mm F2.0 Canon EF-S 10-22mm F3.5-4.5 USM Canon EF-S 15-85mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM +6 more
bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 61,152
Re: New Canon on 22nd March?
1

qianp2k wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

jonas ar wrote:

I meant that I have seen picutures from Sony cams using the two sensors with the same exposure (I believe posted by dpr member RicksAstro). They were very similar. The quantitative measurements at DxOmark from a55 and a77 also seem to indicate that they would perform essentially the same and it does seem that the read noise is somewhat smaller in the a77 from your own sensorgen figures? At least in Sony's implementation of the sensor.

Actually, the Sensorgen figures show that the read noise of the 24MP is lower than the 16MP (about 2.5 e- per pixel as opposed to about 3 e- per pixel), which would make the 24MP about equal integrated read noise, as you suggest. It looks like my memory is playing tricks here. So, even that exception to the rule goes.

It only means Sony 24mp sensors are designed later with better read noise but not because it has more MP. Sony could update its 16mp APS-C sensor to have even better read noise. I personally believe 24mp is marketing gimmick - a) it doesn't gain much resolution than 16mp on diminishing return; b) its pixel level IQ is pretty bad even at base ISO that largely makes irrelevant.

Hi Peter,

The two things actually go together. As the sensor processes are enhanced, the optimum size for a pixel goes down. Low read noise depends on a small read transistor, but if you have a small read transistor the 'full well capacity' of a pixel reduces (it's limited by the read transistor swing, and small transistors produce a higher voltage for the same electron count than big ones). So designers, as they make the transistor smaller to increase fill factor, or reduce read noise face having a small FWC, which means raising the base ISO (so reducing the amount of light each pixel receives) or making the pixels smaller (which means reducing the light per pixel but maintaining it overall). In the end, the second is probably the better solution, and as Canon always managed to achieve a balance of all three, base ISO, read noise and pixel size. The first generation Nikon CMOS in the D3 wasn't quite as good as the contemporaneous Canons, but went for raising the base ISO as above to achieve seemingly better 'high ISO' performance at the cost of low ISOs. Canon still leads the field in absolute read noise. They do with 18MP what the others do with 24, but if they do make more progress, they too will have to reduce pixel size or raise the base ISO.

-- hide signature --

Bob

(unknown member) Senior Member • Posts: 2,853
Re: Call your bluf

jrkliny wrote:

I am the individual who objected to the term "megapixel wars." But I did not intend to touch off a war between forum members. I think we all know that that manufacturers have faced compromises between increasing megapixels and overall sensor performance with noise being the main concern. The issue is really clear with point and shoot cameras. I have a G9 which does really well in bright light, but I hate the noise when I go beyond ISO 100 or 200. So clearly manufacturers have tried to balance the compromise and compete in the marketplace. I guess you can use the term megapixels wars to describe this. I don't like the term but see no reason to make a big stink about it.

Really not a problem. It was probably for dramatic effect more than anything, and it was a term coined out of frustration with marketing tactics rather than image quality. There are some great lenses that can resolve a lot of detail, but at the time there was a desire for low-light performance and better dynamic range more than there was for greater pixel densities that were of more use with higher-end lenses. Mind you, that isn't to say nobody wanted more megapixels. That was never part of my statement, implicitly or explicitly.

Point and shoot cameras is exactly where I put my emphasis and I believe I even stated that DSLR's weren't quite in the same boat....but still they weren't immune. No, there is no stink necessary and it wasn't you that made a stink, which I appreciate.

The point in this discussion is that Canon seems to be stagnant and falling behind. Nikon seems to continue to introduce APS-C and FF cameras with higher megapixel counts, better dynamic range and at least equivalent high ISO performance. I am hoping Canon is finally ready to introduce an improved sensor. Even so I am not expecting much. Maybe some modest improvements in resolution/pixel count, dynamic range and high ISO performance. Obviously if Canon introduces camera with higher pixel counts and more noise, they will have failed and lost another battle. Maybe they will even lose me as a customer. I have been waiting quite a while for the opportunity to upgrade to something better than I have.

I guess I'm not as impressed with higher megapixel counts exactly for the reason that for so long that meant a lack of imagination in other areas. It seemed like we got more megapixels because nobody could think of anything better to do. I wouldn't mind a 21 or 24MP 7DMarkII if it had improved dynamic range and lower noise...although even maintaining the same levels would make a large resolution increase tempting. I was so giddy about the G1 X being the camera I'd been waiting years for I really was impressed with Canon.

I did see Canon's deceleration of megapixel/pixel density increases as a good thing. The G1 X is even an improvement in noise over my 7D with a lens that compares well with the 15-85. The Nikon 5000 series was previeously mentioned in graph form, pointing to its trend to improve noise response while increasing MP count. The D5200 was released at the end of 2012. So here's the progression: D5000, 4/2009, 12MP; D5100, 4/2011, 16MP; D5200, 11/2012, 24MP. If the last 4 months, at least in this ONE example, is proof of Nikon's dominance then I'd suggest remembering the product cycles for these companies are a bit off and maybe this is just another example of our short attention spans and reactionary natures. Heck, the D3000, D5000, D7000, DXX (D90, D80) series have all been below 18MP until very recently.

The lower end of Canon's lines do not always lead the pack on sensor technology. The 7D was a surprise since I was expecting the 60D to be my next camera (I had the 30D and the 40D and 50D, 10.1MP and 15.1MP respectively, were good resolution improvements but didn't wow me on features, AF, and other image quality imprvements), but the combination of price, features, and sensor were the kind of upgrade I was looking for.

I think the upcoming 70D and/or 7DMkII announcement will be a similar "wow" moment. The 18MP sensor really isn't that old, and Canon is well aware that a resolution increase is due. As happy as I am with my ancient 7D a 7D Mark II would really have to be something special to get me to spend the money.

-- hide signature --

Jim, AKA camperjim, formerly from liny, Long Island New York

bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 61,152
Re: Call your bluf
2

howardroark wrote:

jrkliny wrote:

I am the individual who objected to the term "megapixel wars." But I did not intend to touch off a war between forum members. I think we all know that that manufacturers have faced compromises between increasing megapixels and overall sensor performance with noise being the main concern. The issue is really clear with point and shoot cameras. I have a G9 which does really well in bright light, but I hate the noise when I go beyond ISO 100 or 200. So clearly manufacturers have tried to balance the compromise and compete in the marketplace. I guess you can use the term megapixels wars to describe this. I don't like the term but see no reason to make a big stink about it.

Really not a problem. It was probably for dramatic effect more than anything, and it was a term coined out of frustration with marketing tactics rather than image quality.

There is nothing to suggest that the increases in pixel count were due to marketing tactics rather than image quality. The most direct way for a sensor designer to increase image quality is to increase pixel count.

-- hide signature --

Bob

jrkliny
jrkliny Veteran Member • Posts: 3,796
Re: Call your bluf

There seems to be a lot of hope and talk about Canon making a big leap forward.  I am not sure what that would be, nor am I expecting much.  I would like to see a better sensor with better resolution, better dynamic range and less noise at high ISO.  Next would be better focusing.  Better weather sealing would also be great altough that might make little difference since few of my lenses are sealed.  I am not expecting any spectacular features, just something a bit better than we have now.

At one time I expected to upgrade my camera every few years.  With the current slow progress, I expect to be content with my next camera for a great many years.  Without some major improvements, I suspect DSLR sales will be greatly slowed.  Sure there are always first time buyers but in the past lots of us upgraded frequently.

-- hide signature --

Jim, AKA camperjim, formerly from liny, Long Island New York

 jrkliny's gear list:jrkliny's gear list
Canon EOS 600D Canon EOS Rebel T6s Canon EF 35mm F2.0 Canon EF-S 10-22mm F3.5-4.5 USM Canon EF-S 15-85mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM +6 more
bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 61,152
Re: Call your bluf
1

jrkliny wrote:

There seems to be a lot of hope and talk about Canon making a big leap forward. I am not sure what that would be, nor am I expecting much. I would like to see a better sensor with better resolution, better dynamic range and less noise at high ISO. Next would be better focusing. Better weather sealing would also be great altough that might make little difference since few of my lenses are sealed. I am not expecting any spectacular features, just something a bit better than we have now.

At one time I expected to upgrade my camera every few years. With the current slow progress, I expect to be content with my next camera for a great many years. Without some major improvements, I suspect DSLR sales will be greatly slowed. Sure there are always first time buyers but in the past lots of us upgraded frequently.

The big step would be a column ADC or equivalent. Nikon has it now, even on their own designed sensors. I think they just bought in the IP, which is probably what Canon should do.

-- hide signature --

Bob

jonrobertp Forum Pro • Posts: 12,875
Re: 19 pt AF
1

bobn2 wrote:

jonrobertp wrote:

They have only 15 cross sensors

Line sensors are also effective, and cross sensors are less effective towards the edge of the fame.

Sorry, but experience tells me it is not so.  Not in dim light.

 jonrobertp's gear list:jonrobertp's gear list
Canon PowerShot G7 X Canon G3 X Panasonic ZS100
altair8800 Senior Member • Posts: 2,000
Possibly but maybe

bobn2 wrote:

4thnebula wrote:

Depends on if they go to the rumoured 180nm image sensor process (which should be a major improvement and put them ahead of Sony/Nikon)

Hardly. Sony FF sensors are already on 180nm, Sony has fab lines going down to 65nm, and use them for their P&S and phonecam sensors. The 180nm line dates from 2010, so it would be very surprising if it hasn't been in continuous use since then, otherwise the capital investment would be just frittering away. Mostly it will be used making the new CMOS sensors Canon is using in cameras like the G15 and S100, which need the finer geometries. That is Canon's problem, if they move all production onto the new line, they both restrict their ability to make the compact camera sensors by using capacity for DSLR's, they also use the old line unutilised. Possibly Canon will go back to Sony sensors for all compacts, move to the 180nm line and just use the 500nm line for FF. But be clear, 180nm does not put Canon ahead of Sony, it doesn't even catch up.

and significantly improve liveview af (which would hlep their video as well). If the 70D has a 3.2" articulating touchscreen LCD and liveview improves to at least near u43rds speed (with big ef lenses like the 70-200 f2.8 IS) then we will know more good things are coming.

So, we are only 2 weeks away from the answers to those questions since the new APS-C sensor will likely also be the one in the new EOS-M and 7D MKII.

The 180nm process will not get them ahead, and if they haven't managed to use it to put a column ADC in the chip, they'll remain behind.

Very true. But maybe they learned something. Here is something turned up on a search:

"Photokina 2010 - Madison Photo newsletter:
Canon also showed images taken with their new 120 Megapixel sensor. One image filled a wall and no trace of digital noise could be seen. It was absolutely amazing."

Maybe they could spare a meager 30Mp in the 7DII with low noise?

You are on a good roll in this thread.

Dan

bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 61,152
Re: 19 pt AF
3

jonrobertp wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

jonrobertp wrote:

They have only 15 cross sensors

Line sensors are also effective, and cross sensors are less effective towards the edge of the fame.

Sorry, but experience tells me it is not so. Not in dim light.

A little experience is a dangerous thing. The theory would say that cross sensors would be less effective in dim light, since they need more (and therefore smaller) field lenses. The only thing a cross point does for you is give the ability to detect patterns in two directions instead of one, it does that at the cost of sensitivity. I would think it pretty rare that one gets to compare focus points by themselves, what we end up comparing is an AF system. Experience tends to be based on reinforced impressions - to say for sure, you'd have to go through some remarkably rigorous and painstaking testing. For instance, when Rob Galbraith tested the 1D3 AF against the 1D3, he didn't find any particular operational advantage to the edge cross points, taking the AF as a whole.

-- hide signature --

Bob

bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 61,152
Re: Possibly but maybe

altair8800 wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

4thnebula wrote:

Depends on if they go to the rumoured 180nm image sensor process (which should be a major improvement and put them ahead of Sony/Nikon)

Hardly. Sony FF sensors are already on 180nm, Sony has fab lines going down to 65nm, and use them for their P&S and phonecam sensors. The 180nm line dates from 2010, so it would be very surprising if it hasn't been in continuous use since then, otherwise the capital investment would be just frittering away. Mostly it will be used making the new CMOS sensors Canon is using in cameras like the G15 and S100, which need the finer geometries. That is Canon's problem, if they move all production onto the new line, they both restrict their ability to make the compact camera sensors by using capacity for DSLR's, they also use the old line unutilised. Possibly Canon will go back to Sony sensors for all compacts, move to the 180nm line and just use the 500nm line for FF. But be clear, 180nm does not put Canon ahead of Sony, it doesn't even catch up.

and significantly improve liveview af (which would hlep their video as well). If the 70D has a 3.2" articulating touchscreen LCD and liveview improves to at least near u43rds speed (with big ef lenses like the 70-200 f2.8 IS) then we will know more good things are coming.

So, we are only 2 weeks away from the answers to those questions since the new APS-C sensor will likely also be the one in the new EOS-M and 7D MKII.

The 180nm process will not get them ahead, and if they haven't managed to use it to put a column ADC in the chip, they'll remain behind.

Very true. But maybe they learned something. Here is something turned up on a search:

"Photokina 2010 - Madison Photo newsletter:
Canon also showed images taken with their new 120 Megapixel sensor. One image filled a wall and no trace of digital noise could be seen. It was absolutely amazing."

Maybe they could spare a meager 30Mp in the 7DII with low noise?

You are on a good roll in this thread.

Dan

In retrospect, the 120MP (APS-H) sensor can be seen as a test of their smaller pixel design for the P&S sensors that were forthcoming. Certainly, it was a very good sensor, but still had Canon's normal shortcomings, because it still used Canon's normal ADC architecture.

-- hide signature --

Bob

altair8800 Senior Member • Posts: 2,000
Re: Possibly but maybe

bobn2 wrote:

altair8800 wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

4thnebula wrote:

Depends on if they go to the rumoured 180nm image sensor process (which should be a major improvement and put them ahead of Sony/Nikon)

Hardly. Sony FF sensors are already on 180nm, Sony has fab lines going down to 65nm, and use them for their P&S and phonecam sensors. The 180nm line dates from 2010, so it would be very surprising if it hasn't been in continuous use since then, otherwise the capital investment would be just frittering away. Mostly it will be used making the new CMOS sensors Canon is using in cameras like the G15 and S100, which need the finer geometries. That is Canon's problem, if they move all production onto the new line, they both restrict their ability to make the compact camera sensors by using capacity for DSLR's, they also use the old line unutilised. Possibly Canon will go back to Sony sensors for all compacts, move to the 180nm line and just use the 500nm line for FF. But be clear, 180nm does not put Canon ahead of Sony, it doesn't even catch up.

and significantly improve liveview af (which would hlep their video as well). If the 70D has a 3.2" articulating touchscreen LCD and liveview improves to at least near u43rds speed (with big ef lenses like the 70-200 f2.8 IS) then we will know more good things are coming.

So, we are only 2 weeks away from the answers to those questions since the new APS-C sensor will likely also be the one in the new EOS-M and 7D MKII.

The 180nm process will not get them ahead, and if they haven't managed to use it to put a column ADC in the chip, they'll remain behind.

Very true. But maybe they learned something. Here is something turned up on a search:

"Photokina 2010 - Madison Photo newsletter:
Canon also showed images taken with their new 120 Megapixel sensor. One image filled a wall and no trace of digital noise could be seen. It was absolutely amazing."

Maybe they could spare a meager 30Mp in the 7DII with low noise?

You are on a good roll in this thread.

Dan

In retrospect, the 120MP (APS-H) sensor can be seen as a test of their smaller pixel design for the P&S sensors that were forthcoming. Certainly, it was a very good sensor, but still had Canon's normal shortcomings, because it still used Canon's normal ADC architecture.

I read Canon's press release on the 120MP (APS-H) sensor, but they had no details of ADC architecture. Where did you find that?

Dan

jonrobertp Forum Pro • Posts: 12,875
Re: 19 pt AF
1

bobn2 wrote:

jonrobertp wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

jonrobertp wrote:

They have only 15 cross sensors

Line sensors are also effective, and cross sensors are less effective towards the edge of the fame.

Sorry, but experience tells me it is not so. Not in dim light.

A little experience is a dangerous thing. " A little experience ...??? "   Are you talking about yourself ???  I am curious...how long have you been a professional photographer...doing which  type of work ?  thx.  sheesh....................................................................................................................

The theory would say that cross sensors would be less effective in dim light, since they need more (and therefore smaller) field lenses. The only thing a cross point does for you is give the ability to detect patterns in two directions instead of one, it does that at the cost of sensitivity. I would think it pretty rare that one gets to compare focus points by themselves, what we end up comparing is an AF system. Experience tends to be based on reinforced impressions - to say for sure, you'd have to go through some remarkably rigorous and painstaking testing. For instance, when Rob Galbraith tested the 1D3 AF against the 1D3, he didn't find any particular operational advantage to the edge cross points, taking the AF as a whole.

-- hide signature --

Bob

 jonrobertp's gear list:jonrobertp's gear list
Canon PowerShot G7 X Canon G3 X Panasonic ZS100
bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 61,152
Re: 19 pt AF
1

jonrobertp wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

jonrobertp wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

jonrobertp wrote:

They have only 15 cross sensors

Line sensors are also effective, and cross sensors are less effective towards the edge of the fame.

Sorry, but experience tells me it is not so. Not in dim light.

A little experience is a dangerous thing.

" A little experience ...??? " Are you talking about yourself ??? I am curious...how long have you been a professional photographer...doing which type of work ? thx. sheesh....................................................................................................................

OK, let's take it the other way. How did you verify to yourself that it was the cross nature of the AF sensors that was responsible for the better performance you observed? And what were you comparing with what?

-- hide signature --

Bob

Franklin J Ellias
Franklin J Ellias Regular Member • Posts: 204
Re: New Canon on 22nd March?

I agree!

 Franklin J Ellias's gear list:Franklin J Ellias's gear list
Nikon D7100 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 16-85mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR Nikon AF-S Nikkor 50mm f/1.4G Tamron SP 70-300mm F4-5.6 Di VC USD Apple Aperture +5 more
(unknown member) Senior Member • Posts: 2,853
Re: New Canon on 22nd March?
2

5D -- Aug 22, 2005

37 months later

5DII -- Sept 17, 2008

41.5 months later

5DIII -- March 2, 2012


1D -- Sept 25, 2001

40 months later

1DII -- Jan 29, 2004

19 months later

1DIIN -- Aug 22, 2005 (about the equivalen of the 7D firmware update)

18 months later (37 after the II)

IDIII -- Feb 22, 2007


1Ds -- Sept 24, 2002

24 months later

1DsII -- Sept 21, 2004

35 months later

1DsIII -- Aug 20, 2007


7D -- Sept 1, 2009

36 months later

7D firmware V2 -- Aug 7, 2012

7 months later....today.


So thats around 36 months between new bodies. The 1DII got an N version after 19 months and then a new III version 18 months later. So an interim body design came out and the III was still only 37 months after the II. Here we are 7 months after the firmware upgrade, 43 months after the 7D was released. If the internal hardware of the 1DII could be upgraded and then still see the III come out 18 months later, I don't see a reason why a firmware upgrade on the 7D back in August would imply 7 months later won't see the release of a II. The IDIIN was firmward AND hardware and it was midway between a fairly normal 37 month cycle. The longest they've gone between updates up to now in the XD series as been about 42 months. Do we really think they'll wait another 6 months? I guess it's possible, but it doesn't seem likely especially with the rumors the 7DMarkII will be a mini-1D X for $2,200.......I just don't see that happening.  An unusually long gap might imply a bigger change, but that's two aberrations that strike me as very hard to swallow.

(unknown member) Senior Member • Posts: 2,853
Missed a couple

howardroark wrote:

5D -- Aug 22, 2005

37 months later

5DII -- Sept 17, 2008

41.5 months later

5DIII -- March 2, 2012


1D -- Sept 25, 2001

40 months later

1DII -- Jan 29, 2004

19 months later

1DIIN -- Aug 22, 2005 (about the equivalen of the 7D firmware update)

18 months later (37 after the II)

IDIII -- Feb 22, 2007

32 months later

1DIV -- Oct 20, 2009

24 months later

1D X -- Oct 18, 2011


1Ds -- Sept 24, 2002

24 months later

1DsII -- Sept 21, 2004

35 months later

1DsIII -- Aug 20, 2007


7D -- Sept 1, 2009

36 months later

7D firmware V2 -- Aug 7, 2012

7 months later....today.


So thats around 36 months between new bodies. The 1DII got an N version after 19 months and then a new III version 18 months later. So an interim body design came out and the III was still only 37 months after the II. Here we are 7 months after the firmware upgrade, 43 months after the 7D was released. If the internal hardware of the 1DII could be upgraded and then still see the III come out 18 months later, I don't see a reason why a firmware upgrade on the 7D back in August would imply 7 months later won't see the release of a II. The IDIIN was firmward AND hardware and it was midway between a fairly normal 37 month cycle. The longest they've gone between updates up to now in the XD series as been about 42 months. Do we really think they'll wait another 6 months? I guess it's possible, but it doesn't seem likely especially with the rumors the 7DMarkII will be a mini-1D X for $2,200.......I just don't see that happening. An unusually long gap might imply a bigger change, but that's two aberrations that strike me as very hard to swallow.

(unknown member) Senior Member • Posts: 2,853
Nevermind

I also noticed that it's been almost 30 months since the 60D and the XXD's are usually 18 or 12 months, even when an "a" variant is part of the line...I thought the 24 months between the 50D and 60D was the longest they'd ever wait. Wow, forgot how long it's been since the 60D. Maybe the 7D will be on an extra-long cycle too, although we can always hope the 7DII and 70D will come out at the same time. Okay, I'll stop speculating now.

bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 61,152
Re: Possibly but maybe

altair8800 wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

altair8800 wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

4thnebula wrote:

Depends on if they go to the rumoured 180nm image sensor process (which should be a major improvement and put them ahead of Sony/Nikon)

Hardly. Sony FF sensors are already on 180nm, Sony has fab lines going down to 65nm, and use them for their P&S and phonecam sensors. The 180nm line dates from 2010, so it would be very surprising if it hasn't been in continuous use since then, otherwise the capital investment would be just frittering away. Mostly it will be used making the new CMOS sensors Canon is using in cameras like the G15 and S100, which need the finer geometries. That is Canon's problem, if they move all production onto the new line, they both restrict their ability to make the compact camera sensors by using capacity for DSLR's, they also use the old line unutilised. Possibly Canon will go back to Sony sensors for all compacts, move to the 180nm line and just use the 500nm line for FF. But be clear, 180nm does not put Canon ahead of Sony, it doesn't even catch up.

and significantly improve liveview af (which would hlep their video as well). If the 70D has a 3.2" articulating touchscreen LCD and liveview improves to at least near u43rds speed (with big ef lenses like the 70-200 f2.8 IS) then we will know more good things are coming.

So, we are only 2 weeks away from the answers to those questions since the new APS-C sensor will likely also be the one in the new EOS-M and 7D MKII.

The 180nm process will not get them ahead, and if they haven't managed to use it to put a column ADC in the chip, they'll remain behind.

Very true. But maybe they learned something. Here is something turned up on a search:

"Photokina 2010 - Madison Photo newsletter:
Canon also showed images taken with their new 120 Megapixel sensor. One image filled a wall and no trace of digital noise could be seen. It was absolutely amazing."

Maybe they could spare a meager 30Mp in the 7DII with low noise?

You are on a good roll in this thread.

Dan

In retrospect, the 120MP (APS-H) sensor can be seen as a test of their smaller pixel design for the P&S sensors that were forthcoming. Certainly, it was a very good sensor, but still had Canon's normal shortcomings, because it still used Canon's normal ADC architecture.

I read Canon's press release on the 120MP (APS-H) sensor, but they had no details of ADC architecture. Where did you find that?

Dan

I read the paper they published on it in the International Image Sensor Society forum. It didn't have the ADC as such, but showed it to be the normal Canon analog output sensor.

-- hide signature --

Bob

jonrobertp Forum Pro • Posts: 12,875
70D in trouble ???

Look at the lastest posted images released on the D7100 site here on dpr...those hi iso shots...yikes, they do look good.

C'mon, Canon...lets get on with the show.   Game on.  May the best man(camera) win.

 jonrobertp's gear list:jonrobertp's gear list
Canon PowerShot G7 X Canon G3 X Panasonic ZS100
(unknown member) Senior Member • Posts: 2,853
Re: 70D in trouble ???

jonrobertp wrote:

Look at the lastest posted images released on the D7100 site here on dpr...those hi iso shots...yikes, they do look good.

C'mon, Canon...lets get on with the show. Game on. May the best man(camera) win.

Hopefully in another 8 days we'll have some answers.  I'm pretty sure my next camera will either be a 7DMarkIII or a 6DMarkII.

Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads