Lightroom 4.4 RC and ACR 7.4 RC - Tests/Results

Started Feb 26, 2013 | Discussions
WolfyWho
WolfyWho Contributing Member • Posts: 970
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Ryan Williams
Ryan Williams Contributing Member • Posts: 598
Re: Lightroom 4.4 RC and ACR 7.4 RC - Tests/Results

Another thing I've noticed is that the in-camera RAW processor does a better job of handling chroma noise at higher ISOs. Whereas the JPEGs come out of the camera with virtually no chroma noise whatsoever even when noise reduction is set to -2, the RAWs by default still show signs of struggling with the chroma noise. This manifests as visible blue tinting to shadows, even when zoomed right out. Interestingly this is the same phenomenon Capture One suffers from, whereas Lightroom 4.3 didn't.

Worse, even at the default chroma noise reduction setting Lightroom has 'false positives', where things that're actually meant to be blue are affected by the noise reduction and lose their proper tonality. This isn't something the in-camera processor has a problem with, maintaining actual blue detail while removing blue chroma noise.

So it seems that while some of the broader issues have been resolved, there's still a problem with chroma noise and/or handling of blue. I really have no explanation for the thing I posted pictures of before, nor can I alleviate it with any of Lightroom's settings.

Sebit Regular Member • Posts: 241
Re: Lightroom 4.4 RC and ACR 7.4 RC - Tests/Results

For me it looks like either there is a problem with highlights recovery, or perhaps you over did it with the Highlights slider. Perhaps it's a little bit of both? I don't have any x-trans camera at hand, so my choice of RAF files is limited. But I was impressed today by the ability to pull HL in high ISO and no such phenomenon appeared. For example, DSCF9674.RAF from the X-Pro1 review, I've even used local exposure correction (-1 EV with global Highlights -100 and global - 0.36 EV). However, I'm getting such crazy results with other cameras, for my D700 it's usually grey patches of similar nature in the areas of highlights blown beyond recovery. Interesting.

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seb

Ryan Williams
Ryan Williams Contributing Member • Posts: 598
Re: Lightroom 4.4 RC and ACR 7.4 RC - Tests/Results

Randy Benter wrote:

Ryan Williams wrote:

On the other hand, there's madness like this:

Lightroom 4.4 100% crop (no adjustments):

I'm sure I don't even need to say it, but the JPEG reflects how the scene actually looked. There wasn't any blue in the real-life scene at all. I'm seeing similar oddities occurring in other photos using high ISOs too (3200–6400), colours just not reflecting their real-world or SOOC JPEG counterparts.

Ugh...

This could be lens correction gone wrong. Try disabling CA correction and setting Defringe Amounts to 0.

By default that's how they are already. If I try raising the Defringe amount, the purple starts to become grey instead but the effect remains bizarre. Tweaking the purple hue sliders doesn't make things any more realistic.

Sebit Regular Member • Posts: 241
Re: Lightroom 4.4 RC and ACR 7.4 RC - Tests/Results

That's really nasty. Ugh. Have you been using the LR 4.3 before? I wonder if this was the issue with it, too?

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seb

Ryan Williams
Ryan Williams Contributing Member • Posts: 598
Re: Lightroom 4.4 RC and ACR 7.4 RC - Tests/Results

Sebit wrote:

That's really nasty. Ugh. Have you been using the LR 4.3 before? I wonder if this was the issue with it, too?

I was, and I'm almost certain this issue wasn't there. I'm uploading the RAF now so if anyone wants to mess around with this and try to figure it out they can do.

Ryan Williams
Ryan Williams Contributing Member • Posts: 598
Re: Lightroom 4.4 RC and ACR 7.4 RC - Tests/Results

Sebit wrote:

For me it looks like either there is a problem with highlights recovery, or perhaps you over did it with the Highlights slider. Perhaps it's a little bit of both? I don't have any x-trans camera at hand, so my choice of RAF files is limited. But I was impressed today by the ability to pull HL in high ISO and no such phenomenon appeared. For example, DSCF9674.RAF from the X-Pro1 review, I've even used local exposure correction (-1 EV with global Highlights -100 and global - 0.36 EV). However, I'm getting such crazy results with other cameras, for my D700 it's usually grey patches of similar nature in the areas of highlights blown beyond recovery. Interesting.

Unfortunately none of the sliders seem to help reduce the problem, including highlights. The problem manifests even with completely default settings, that's what my picture above shows — no adjustments.

Here's the original RAF and JPEG in case anyone wants to try and figure this out:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/37346336/1275.raf

Sebit Regular Member • Posts: 241
Re: Lightroom 4.4 RC and ACR 7.4 RC - Tests/Results

I'm not an expert, but I'll be happy to give it a try, of course. Btw, for me, coming from D700, Fuji's sooc jpegs are treated with some magic sprinkle, indeed...

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seb

Randy Benter
Randy Benter Veteran Member • Posts: 3,197
Re: Lightroom 4.4 RC and ACR 7.4 RC - Tests/Results
1

Thanks for sharing those files Ryan. I think you should share this with Adobe; perhaps they can fix it in the final release. I could not find a setting to correct the problem either, but I opened the raw with CaptureOne Express and it looked fine.

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Sebit Regular Member • Posts: 241
Re: Lightroom 4.4 RC and ACR 7.4 RC - Tests/Results

Thanks for the RAF.

Well, I'm getting exactly identical result. Switching back to 2010 process improves things by a large margin - of course only where it comes to transition from the highlight to the purple colour (is it purple? I'm not good at naming colors here ), because the smearing of detail destroys the picture. I've tried one more thing - moving WB and Tint sliders to the left - that helped to smooth the transition, but again - the image is unusable. Other things I've tried made no difference to this phenomenon. I'll keep on trying tomorrow, perhaps I'll think of something new.

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seb

Imagefoundry Regular Member • Posts: 269
Re: Lightroom 4.4 RC and ACR 7.4 RC - Tests/Results
3

Thanks for the interesting example!

you can fix this, but in a slightly roundabout way - first go to camera calibration tab, and reduce the saturation for Blue until the problem is gone. Now you just have to bring the correct color back - go to HSL/Grayscale tab and fix up saturation and hue on the purple glow using appropriate sliders.

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Sebit Regular Member • Posts: 241
Re: Lightroom 4.4 RC and ACR 7.4 RC - Tests/Results

Just to give everyone an idea on what I mean by smoother transition in an unusable image. Sliders included, process version 2012.

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seb

ulrikem Regular Member • Posts: 221
Re: Lightroom 4.4 RC and ACR 7.4 RC - Tests/Results

fyi, AccuRaw doesn't do much better and RPP just seems to crash while opening the file.

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Sebit Regular Member • Posts: 241
Re: Lightroom 4.4 RC and ACR 7.4 RC - Tests/Results

That's it, thank you for your advise. So it's the blue channel clipping, if I understand correctly? Could this be fixed with a proper Adobe profile for this camera? What do you think?

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seb

Ryan Williams
Ryan Williams Contributing Member • Posts: 598
Re: Lightroom 4.4 RC and ACR 7.4 RC - Tests/Results
1

Blue channel clipping sounds about right, that'd explain the really harsh transition. I guess this is potentially something a preset could address, although it really should be incorporated by Adobe. I'll send this thread to Adobe so they can consider the problem/discovery. Great stuff guys.

Ryan Williams
Ryan Williams Contributing Member • Posts: 598
Re: Lightroom 4.4 RC and ACR 7.4 RC - Tests/Results
3

Adobe seem to have an official bug submission system where you can all vote for the bug to encourage Adobe to fix it ASAP:

http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/products/photoshop_family_photoshop_lightroom

I can't seem to figure out how the heck to submit one though? I'm logged in, can't see anything. Am I missing something obvious here or what?

Edit: Figured it out, need to use an entirely different page. My bug report should appear under the latest activity now, please click the star to help get it sorted out. The specific bug page is here:

http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/lightroom_4_4_bug_with_new_x_trans_handling_algorithms?rfm=1

Mr Sincere Regular Member • Posts: 336
Re: Lightroom 4.4 RC and ACR 7.4 RC - Tests/Results

Looked like channel clipping as soon as I saw it, but I was about to give up on fixing it until I saw the reply from Imagefoundry.  Following his advice I was able to get a least somewhat close to the jpeg.

I would guess this is bug that Adobe could easily fix (i.e., not a problem with their new algorithm, but a small oversight somewhere).  I'm glad to read you've already forwarded it to them.  If you don't hear anything, I'd post this info on their own Lightroom forums, which I know their developers read.

For what it's worth, I looked at a few photos of mine with blue/purple neon lights, and I didn't notice anything like this.  I've only had the camera a week though, so I don't have a whole lot of examples to play with.

This is my result, after setting the "Blue Primary" to a Hue of +20 and a saturation of -80.  I'm no good at working with color, but I also boosted the saturation of blue, purple and magenta under the HSL tab of the color controls.

Btw, where was this taken?  It's a nice street scene.

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Water Ouzel Forum Member • Posts: 52
Re: Lightroom 4.4 RC and ACR 7.4 RC - Tests/Results

I've run your test file first through 4.3 then 4.4RC.  Both produce the same effect with the streetlights.

I've also run the file through Capture One Express 7...   ...it pains me to note that C17 appeared to handle the file flawlessly.

Bradley

Ryan Williams
Ryan Williams Contributing Member • Posts: 598
Re: Lightroom 4.4 RC and ACR 7.4 RC - Tests/Results

Mr Sincere wrote:

Looked like channel clipping as soon as I saw it, but I was about to give up on fixing it until I saw the reply from Imagefoundry. Following his advice I was able to get a least somewhat close to the jpeg.

I would guess this is bug that Adobe could easily fix (i.e., not a problem with their new algorithm, but a small oversight somewhere). I'm glad to read you've already forwarded it to them. If you don't hear anything, I'd post this info on their own Lightroom forums, which I know their developers read.

For what it's worth, I looked at a few photos of mine with blue/purple neon lights, and I didn't notice anything like this. I've only had the camera a week though, so I don't have a whole lot of examples to play with.

This is my result, after setting the "Blue Primary" to a Hue of +20 and a saturation of -80. I'm no good at working with color, but I also boosted the saturation of blue, purple and magenta under the HSL tab of the color controls.

Btw, where was this taken? It's a nice street scene.

Good findings and experimentation. Hopefully this will be a small quirk Adobe can implement a fix for.

The scene is just out my window in the middle of Nottingham, UK. There's often something interesting going on in the surrounding clubs/bars.

Another one I took when the sun was still out (And actually made an effort with the framing and PP!):

Mr Sincere Regular Member • Posts: 336
Re: Lightroom 4.4 RC and ACR 7.4 RC - Tests/Results

Ryan Williams wrote:

Edit: Figured it out, need to use an entirely different page. My bug report should appear under the latest activity now, please click the star to help get it sorted out. The specific bug page is here:

http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/lightroom_4_4_bug_with_new_x_trans_handling_algorithms?rfm=1

Thanks so much for filing the bug report.  I've been trying to either login or create an account for like the last 10 minutes, but that has to be the most frustrating site I've ever used.   Site just stalls when I try to transfer my Adobe ID, and I see absolutely no way to just register a new account.  If I can ever get logged in, I'll certainly vote on the bug report and comment...

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