What has happened to Nikon?

Started Feb 14, 2013 | Discussions
bigpigbig Senior Member • Posts: 1,788
Re: What has happened to Nikon?
3

"My D800e's are the finest cameras I have ever owned."

+1

I do believe people have have problems with them. I do believe that customer service can be a nightmare. But the same can be said for SO many companies. Apple, Canon, Fuji, etc. etc.

The smaller and more intricate products get, the more of these kinds of viewpoints will be voiced. It has NOTHING to do with a particular company. It is a combination of Internet culture and beyond perfect control complexities of technology.

All of that said, the OP is a constant Nikon bashing individual, whose posts should be taken with a grain of salt. If he really felt that way, why would he spend months and months on these forums trying to convince people? Just buy a Canon (they are great cameras, I spent 20 years shooting with them, digitally 6 cameras from the 10D through the 1D MKIV), be happy, go take some photographs.

CraigBennett wrote:

Robin Casady wrote:

From a number of threads, I have to wonder about you perception of cameras and lenses. You ranted about AF problems, then you posted that you tried the AF-ON only technique and all was good. Now you are ranting again. You seem to think the 24-85 VR is as sharp as the 24-70.

My experience has been that each Nikon DSLR I've owned has been better than the last. With digital I started with a D100. Then got a D2x for higher resolution and other improvements. Made the change to digital FX with a D700. The DR improvement over the D2x was amazing. Now I have a D800E. My first Nikon was a Nikkormat in 1967 and adding a Nikon F in 1970. Then I started favoring medium and large format. A Nikon N90 was mostly used when I needed 35mm color slides.

The D800E has been more than I dreamed possible a few years ago.

The AF on my D800E is more accurate and reliable than any of my previous DSLRs. I guess I've been very lucky with my D800E in that it has not needed any AF fine-tuning and the extreme left AF is as good as one can expect (not a cross sensor). I did have to do some fine tuning on the D700.

The increased sensitivity of PDAF has been noticeable over the D700. The D800E finds focus in situations that surprise me.

With manual focus lenses I can often get more accurate focus with the green dot than I can with the less than stellar LV. Even CDAF seems less reliable than PDAF.

I have no way to judge what other people's D800 and D800E cameras are like. Since some of the major photo pundits say that there are problems, I assume there must be. I doubt that they are as bad as some of the ranters have claimed.

Nikon went through a rough time with the earthquake and tsunami. Their Sendai plant (where the D800E is made) sustained some damage from the earthquake. The tsunami was horrifically devastating to the people of Sendai and the town's infrastructure. This would have affected emplyees of the Sendai plant as well as suppliers Nikon relies on.

Later, the floods in Thailand devastated a Nikon factory.

I would expect that these disasters made things rather difficult for the people of Nikon. Schedules would be interrupted, there would have been problems with supply chains, employee morale would have been affected. It would surprise me if there hadn't been consequences to these disasters.

I'm glad that my D800E is so excellent. I'm sorry for those who have had bad experiences, but it annoys me that some of then are using this forum to vent their frustration over and over and over and over.

I am with Robin on this. Similar paths, but I started with a Zeiss Contax II in 1968. These post have made me a little crazy! Even today, I once again tested my two D800e's just to make sure....once again both are as good as I expect. These cameras simple amaze me at how well and fast they focus, especially in low light. Perhaps because I am coming from D1x, D2x, and d90 never having the opportunity to use the D3, D700, etc. my judgment is bias? My D800e's are the finest cameras I have ever owned.

I agree with Robin on the hardships endured by Nikon the company and Nikon the people. I for one think it amazing anything has come out of the destruction. Well stated Robin.

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(unknown member) Veteran Member • Posts: 4,585
Re: What has happened to Nikon?
3

Shotcents wrote:

And before the fanboys react and attack me I'm venting here! It's a valid set of observations for a group forum to DISCUSS Nikon gear. If your cameras work better than your last, GREAT. I'm seriously glad to hear about it. But, as many of us honest folk will admit, all is not well in Nikon-Land. Let's keep this civil and mature. This is MY view....

+++1

I wholeheartedly agree with your post so I'll duck for cover as well. Hope you have your flak jacket on.

Peace

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New to this forum, not to forums!

bigpigbig Senior Member • Posts: 1,788
Re: What has happened to Nikon?
6

ADMint wrote:

Shotcents wrote:

And before the fanboys react and attack me I'm venting here! It's a valid set of observations for a group forum to DISCUSS Nikon gear. If your cameras work better than your last, GREAT. I'm seriously glad to hear about it. But, as many of us honest folk will admit, all is not well in Nikon-Land. Let's keep this civil and mature. This is MY view....

+++1

I wholeheartedly agree with your post so I'll duck for cover as well. Hope you have your flak jacket on.

Peace

Complaints will always outweigh happy customers in a feedback forum.

It doesn't make you right. It doesn't make others wrong.

For that you would have to do a scientific survey. Take 1000 D800 owners at random and ask them if they have had issues. Then decide what would be acceptable. 5% 10%? 20% ? It will never be zero.

My guess is it would be around 10%. TOTAL GUESS. Maybe it is 90%. If so, thank dog I am one of the lucky ones.  :smile:

But, if it is in fact 5 or 10%, then you need to accept the fact that you got unlucky and deal with it. That might be by returning your camera. That might be by switching brands.

But to REPEATEDLY come on DPREVIEW and post generalizations based entirely on hearsay and innuendo is blatantly aggressive and useless. Nikon is not looking at this forum to make decisions about business strategy. They have much better ways of gathering data and know as well as most, that forums are full of complainers and paid trolls, shills and are unreliable sources of information.

The same thing happens over on the Fuji forum. The X-Pro1 and XE1 are absolutely revolutionary APS-C bodies, yet you'd think Fuji released a Frankenstein camera by reading some of the posts there.

So that is MY rant.

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sandy b
sandy b Veteran Member • Posts: 9,334
Hey new guy
3

WE have been hearing about it from the same usual suspects ad nauseum, hijacking threads, houdreds, no thousands of posts by the same core over and over again. And WE are sick of it. The rules say post about an issue ONCE, then leave it be. These guys posts HUNDREDS of times, to hijack the board with dozens of anti Nikon posts.

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sandy b
sandy b Veteran Member • Posts: 9,334
Totally agree
1

This forum plain smells lately. And nobody does anything.

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bigpigbig Senior Member • Posts: 1,788
Re: Totally agree

sandy b wrote:

This forum plain smells lately. And nobody does anything.

Hang in there.

Post some amazing photos from your D800's!

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John M Roberts Senior Member • Posts: 2,631
Re: What has happened to Nikon?
5

Shotcents wrote:

Robin, you have the luxury of owning a trouble free D800e. And that's fantastic. But if you're watching the forums you certainly know that something has happened to Nikon. Whether it's Earthquakes, global warming or terrorists, many of us paid a lot of money for gear that is substandard.

Still worse, Nikon has been cryptic and less than helpful in fixing the problems. How many times have you read about owners sending back cameras two or more times? It's incredible that this could be tolerated. So now, and this is particularly sad, I'm AFRAID to get my D800 serviced for fear that it will end up worse. Or that they'll blame me and charge me.

Some may say I'm foolish for letting all this keep me from purchasing the D800 yet. Nearly three years ago I had hope for Nikon to upgrade the D700 for that is what I wanted to replace my hold on MF and LF film. I ended up buying the D700 and happy for it yet would have preferred higher res. I still do but like I said, I'm not in a great hurry with all this Nikon's nondisclosure to various problems, their clamping down on supplying parts, labeling many repairs as impact, and customers having to send in their items multiple times. This just didn't use to be so prevalent.

If Canon comes up with a tempting replacement then I think I might give them my business again. The majority of my career used Canon for 35mm. Switching to digital meant I needed all new lenses, Nikon had the reputation of best focus and flash capabilities so there I went with the D700. I am not impressed with their public relations or lack of. How many are there like me standing on the side lines I don't have a clue, but what is certain, they have not received my further investing in their brand.

John M Roberts Senior Member • Posts: 2,631
Re: Disasters shouldn't negate customer respect
8

CraigBennett wrote:

I am with Robin on this. Similar paths, but I started with a Zeiss Contax II in 1968. These post have made me a little crazy! Even today, I once again tested my two D800e's just to make sure....once again both are as good as I expect. These cameras simple amaze me at how well and fast they focus, especially in low light. Perhaps because I am coming from D1x, D2x, and d90 never having the opportunity to use the D3, D700, etc. my judgment is bias? My D800e's are the finest cameras I have ever owned.

I agree with Robin on the hardships endured by Nikon the company and Nikon the people. I for one think it amazing anything has come out of the destruction. Well stated Robin.

They could have been more transparent in their situation and copped to some of these problems. They could have shared some numbers, if in fact they are so few, to help assure their customers that they care and that buying a D800 doesn't have to be felt like a crapshoot. That they have not done this causes me hesitation. I have never in all my purchases of camera gear from various brands ever had the concerns I have now and that is over 40 years.

To me, the hardships of disaster is no excuse for lack of customer respect.

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Lance B Forum Pro • Posts: 31,800
Re: What has happened to Nikon?
1

bigpigbig wrote:

ADMint wrote:

Shotcents wrote:

And before the fanboys react and attack me I'm venting here! It's a valid set of observations for a group forum to DISCUSS Nikon gear. If your cameras work better than your last, GREAT. I'm seriously glad to hear about it. But, as many of us honest folk will admit, all is not well in Nikon-Land. Let's keep this civil and mature. This is MY view....

+++1

I wholeheartedly agree with your post so I'll duck for cover as well. Hope you have your flak jacket on.

Peace

Complaints will always outweigh happy customers in a feedback forum.

It doesn't make you right. It doesn't make others wrong.

For that you would have to do a scientific survey. Take 1000 D800 owners at random and ask them if they have had issues. Then decide what would be acceptable. 5% 10%? 20% ? It will never be zero.

My guess is it would be around 10%. TOTAL GUESS. Maybe it is 90%. If so, thank dog I am one of the lucky ones. :smile:

But, if it is in fact 5 or 10%, then you need to accept the fact that you got unlucky and deal with it. That might be by returning your camera. That might be by switching brands.

But to REPEATEDLY come on DPREVIEW and post generalizations based entirely on hearsay and innuendo is blatantly aggressive and useless. Nikon is not looking at this forum to make decisions about business strategy. They have much better ways of gathering data and know as well as most, that forums are full of complainers and paid trolls, shills and are unreliable sources of information.

The same thing happens over on the Fuji forum. The X-Pro1 and XE1 are absolutely revolutionary APS-C bodies, yet you'd think Fuji released a Frankenstein camera by reading some of the posts there.

So that is MY rant.

Good post.

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shigzeo
shigzeo Senior Member • Posts: 1,944
Re: What has happened to Nikon?
7

Shotcents wrote:

And before the fanboys react and attack me I'm venting here! It's a valid set of observations for a group forum to DISCUSS Nikon gear. If your cameras work better than your last, GREAT. I'm seriously glad to hear about it. But, as many of us honest folk will admit, all is not well in Nikon-Land. Let's keep this civil and mature. This is MY view.

Up until the D800 my life with Nikon was just about perfect. How perfect? Well, I spent 25K or more EASILY on Nikon cameras and lenses, starting with the D70, D50, D80, and then jumping into the D300, D3, D700, multiple bodies and flashes and two kits I was always comfortable using.

Enter the D800. At first things seem okay, but over the months I was less and less secure with the AF. It was CLEARLY less reliable than the D700 in challenging situations. My friends staunchly defended the D800 (and D4), but one by one they ended up with the same feeling. About half of us sent our cameras back.

My 1st D800 suffers from a MILD left AF issue. I'm sure a lot of people wish their issue was as mild as mine because I've seen far worse. My 2nd D800 was terrible. Left and right side were WAY off. I returned it.

Through various techniques and generally using ONLY the center AF point along with using the AF-ON focus technique, I get fairly reliable results. Images are wonderful, but I don't have that warm feeling I had with the D700 or D3. Some of my friends, who shoot weddings, have abandoned the D800 completely.

NONE of us will buy another D800.

Enter the D600. I DON'T HAVE ONE. But a lot of my friends jumped. Why not? Lower cost high MP second body! It's a nice dream. But what the heck!? Oil on the sensor? Silly amounts of dust along with it. Wet cleanings every other week?

And you can go to ANY major forum and hear about folks trying to get these cameras serviced. We're NOT talking about a small group. Cameras go back 2 or 3 times. Some owners are BLAMED by Nikon and charged. What the deuce?!, as Stewie would say!

So where has this left me? I'll think LONG and hard before buying the next DXXX. I'm absolutely terrified to return my D800 for service. Nikon stock is way down, just like their online reputation. It's a great time for photography, but you have to hope for a good camera in the box as never before.

My D800 is the best DSLR I've owned. But it's also been the worst; fussy, inconsistent and slow. It feels like a work-in-progress. Naturally others will jump in and claim their D800 cameras are perfect, better than sex and whatever. But, as someone else pointed out: Somewhere between the fanboys and the disgruntled owners with bad cameras lies the truth.

Cheers,

Robert

I'm quite drunk. My wife passed two bottles of Sambuca to me thanks to Valentine's Day (in Japan, girls give presents to boys on Vanlentine's Day. March 14 is the day when boys give girls things; that is called White Day).

I, too, have a D800, which I use professionally and for hobby work.

I have only this to say of the D800 vs. the D200 and the FE/FM which I also use. Nikon used to compete with Zeiss/Ikon. In the 1980's there was no one left from abroad. They competed with only Canon. That is the problem. Japanese companies make good things when there is competition from abroad. Left to their own devices, they cheapen everything completely. Our house is basically made of plastic and if someone upstairs stubs a toe, we hear it. If they cough, we hear it.

Japan is a country that originally wanted to rip off stuff. Then, when they had the money to make money, they wanted only to cheapen stuff in order to make more money, or take a larger market share. The illusion is that Japan is a society that makes high quality stuff. They make precise stuff, not quality stuff.

Come live here. It is full of kitsch more than any other nation I've lived in, including Korea, which is more technologically advanced in the cities than Japan is. Korea still looks abroad to design, to innovate. Japan is as insular as any country in modern history ever has been.

If/when they can bypass said insularity, they will return to making great things. Now, every company that makes: computers, cars, cameras, is only a copy of another. Nikon is to Canon as Canon is to Nikon. (Add 'are' for English speakers. Remember, I'm drunk. My arguments return to base sentiments as my blood flows black (the Sambuca is black).)

There are chief differences in Nikon's roots compared to Canon's. Canon, primarily are engaged in their own production. Nikon are an imaging company who outsource parts to other companies. But at base, their cameras are the same as Canon's. The cheapening of manufacturing has led to this situation. The two are equal.

However, today, Canon seem to make cameras with a bit more follow through than Nikon do. I use Nikon gear exclusively for digital. For film, I use a Canon P rangefinder plus a Yashica Electro. Nikon's early film SLR stuff was great. So, too, were their rangefinders. Enter the 1980's, when AF, plastic, and the cheapening of parts became rampant, and quality quickly deteriorated. Guess who was at the helm? Not the Germans. No. The Japanese.

Japan simply loves plastic. The pipes in every one of the rooms in our house are made of PVC. They clog on a weekly basis. The windows are single paned at best. There is NO insulation anywhere. Japanese combat these design inequalities by building more efficient electronics, not by equipping original equipment (houses, cars, cameras) with better, more efficient design.

Why?

Because Japan is a society more dominated by corporation than any other rich nation. Corporations dictate every aspect of life here. That means: above all, profit is king. Not safety. Not longevity. Not thoroughness. Now, before you say the USA and Germany are the same, let me remind you, that in the USA you still have government wings in the postal system, the train system, etc. Japan has done away with these things. The last bastion of public anything is health, in which the government guaratnees (thankfully) that an individual will never have to pay more than 1000$ per month on any health/hospitalised related issue.

That is still far more expensive than what an individual will pay in Canada or Germany.

Because the consumer isn't important in Japan and because the corporation dictates the laws in this country, things will only cheapen. Unless there is 2nd coming quality and leadership from abroad, things will only get worse.

Japan was never a leader in quality. They were a leader in automation, in cheapening, in mass production. We are past those milestones in industrialisation. Forget it. Today, the majority of flats are built at factory then shipped to site. If things go wrong, they go up wrong. Earthquakes are common, and other natural disasters. Those are the only things against which Japanese companies plan. Everything else is this: cheap, quick, and many.

Nikon will become nothing more than a plastic fantastic in a few years no matter that they started as a feisty optical company.

I lived in Korea for two years. It pains me to say that Korea will surpass Japan. Korea is run even more so by corporate oligarchy. Samsung and Hyundai dominate the country in a two party hydra head. You can't buy anything in the country that hasn't been touched by one or the other. But they will surpass Japan, whose leadership in cheapening of products and services, will be their downfall - will be the downfall of the free market driven political base abroad.

Things are cheap. Things are not researched. Things are made only to make money, not to leave a mark. That is how they are. That is how they will remain. Welcome to a Japan/Korea/China dominated economy.

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peterclark55 Senior Member • Posts: 2,379
Re: What has happened to Nikon?

Shotcents wrote:

And before the fanboys react and attack me I'm venting here! It's a valid set of observations for a group forum to DISCUSS Nikon gear. If your cameras work better than your last, GREAT. I'm seriously glad to hear about it. But, as many of us honest folk will admit, all is not well in Nikon-Land. Let's keep this civil and mature. This is MY view.

Up until the D800 my life with Nikon was just about perfect. How perfect? Well, I spent 25K or more EASILY on Nikon cameras and lenses, starting with the D70, D50, D80, and then jumping into the D300, D3, D700, multiple bodies and flashes and two kits I was always comfortable using.

Enter the D800. At first things seem okay, but over the months I was less and less secure with the AF. It was CLEARLY less reliable than the D700 in challenging situations. My friends staunchly defended the D800 (and D4), but one by one they ended up with the same feeling. About half of us sent our cameras back.

My 1st D800 suffers from a MILD left AF issue. I'm sure a lot of people wish their issue was as mild as mine because I've seen far worse. My 2nd D800 was terrible. Left and right side were WAY off. I returned it.

Through various techniques and generally using ONLY the center AF point along with using the AF-ON focus technique, I get fairly reliable results. Images are wonderful, but I don't have that warm feeling I had with the D700 or D3. Some of my friends, who shoot weddings, have abandoned the D800 completely.

NONE of us will buy another D800.

Enter the D600. I DON'T HAVE ONE. But a lot of my friends jumped. Why not? Lower cost high MP second body! It's a nice dream. But what the heck!? Oil on the sensor? Silly amounts of dust along with it. Wet cleanings every other week?

And you can go to ANY major forum and hear about folks trying to get these cameras serviced. We're NOT talking about a small group. Cameras go back 2 or 3 times. Some owners are BLAMED by Nikon and charged. What the deuce?!, as Stewie would say!

So where has this left me? I'll think LONG and hard before buying the next DXXX. I'm absolutely terrified to return my D800 for service. Nikon stock is way down, just like their online reputation. It's a great time for photography, but you have to hope for a good camera in the box as never before.

My D800 is the best DSLR I've owned. But it's also been the worst; fussy, inconsistent and slow. It feels like a work-in-progress. Naturally others will jump in and claim their D800 cameras are perfect, better than sex and whatever. But, as someone else pointed out: Somewhere between the fanboys and the disgruntled owners with bad cameras lies the truth.

Cheers,

Robert

Remember that Nikon suffered two major disasters, the quake/stunami in Japan and the flood in Tailland, give them a chance to recover. No probem with my new D800 and my old V1, the latter made in China, Peter

Pradipta Dutta
Pradipta Dutta Veteran Member • Posts: 9,782
Take a deep breath and think before you say
3

Shotcents wrote:

And before the fanboys react and attack me I'm venting here!

Not attacking. Camera is just a tool for our hobby (profession for some). No need to feel married to Nikon or for that matter any other camera company.

NONE of us will buy another D800.

You need to make up your mind. You appear to change your storyline every two weeks and then start a series of rants repeating the same story over and over again.

Naturally others will jump in and claim their D800 cameras are perfect, better than sex and whatever. But, as someone else pointed out: Somewhere between the fanboys and the disgruntled owners with bad cameras lies the truth.

Why would someone who has a perfectly working D800 be tagged as a fanboy? What kind of illogical assertion is that?

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Michael S.
Michael S. Veteran Member • Posts: 7,795
Re: NIKON got the leader in technolgy! (nt)
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Michael S.
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Chad Gladstone Senior Member • Posts: 2,608
D800 only post, technology marches on...
1

The D800 is currently unrivaled in FF DSLR for IQ and DR.  Whether one has extreme corner AF issues or not, there is nothing offered by any manufacturer that can even come close to its measurable IQ superiority right now.  Those impacted by what they purport to be a latent AF defect are perhaps teetering on the cutting edge of what it technologically practicable, given the price point and the limited resources available to Nikon at the time of production.  If all 51 points of AF are not adequate for your shooting style, use something else or get a different body and forego 36mp.  If your video demands are not satisfied, there are other available options as well, but if you need the highest IQ DSLR, Nikon D800 is what the market currently offers.

I have been shooting Nikon a long time and the D800 is the first camera available that allows me to shoot indoor basketball.  Whether I have focus issues or not, I don't know, but I do know the camera is intuative (sic) enough to capture the images without motion  blur (1/400), minimally distracting noise, at f2.8, whilst locking on and tracking fast and erratic subjects in full, 36 mp images.  It also gives me the freedom to pull shadows without banding and has reasonable headway to recover blown highlights with minimal effort (something I could not do with my D70, D200 or D300).

I sympathize with any and all who are experiencing issues with their D800, but I seriously question what on earth captures people are missing because of the limitations of their D800's?  If you are content with 12, 16, 20, or 24 MP, you have other options.  Get one of them and please stop the endless complaining about a product that no other manufacturer had either the foresight or capacity to risk marketing.  Please get something that better addresses your demanding shooting requirements.  Life it too short to spend time complaining about what the D800 should have been.  It may not be perfect, but its exceptional IQ is unrivaled in FX DSLR at an attractive pricepoint making it the first, full featured FX DSLR, attainable by the masses.

Nikon's customer service may be terrible, I don't know and I am loathe to find out now especially given the impression that many here are sending in multiple bodies to address an issue (or perhaps a limitation) that appears either difficult to remedy, replicate or cannot be fixed without further technological advancements.  Irrespective, it has not impacted my shooting style and possibly, I suspect, would have remained largely undetected with a less demanding sensor, so why even bother?

All I can really state with the utmost confidence is that I am producing the technically best images I have ever been able to capture with the much maligned D800.  It has reinvigorated my interest in capturing memories, many of which I could not achieve with the previous generation Nikon bodies I have owned - all at the incredible resolution that the D800 alone, presently offers at an affordable price point.

Perhaps I am demanding too little in the D800 or the Nikon company or perhaps others are expecting more than Nikon is willing to offer or admit.  Either way, I will endeavor to hone my photographic techniques with what I have while those of you who are so enraged by Nikon can grind your axes and scope out greener pastures (but please keeps us updated of the shipping status, the time that has elapsed for the repair, a complete transcript of a communication with lower level customer service, how you managed to expedite you repair demand and above all, provide an exhaustive list of short hand parts manifesto - it makes for compelling reading and provides meaning in our otherwise vacuous lives).

When I finally get my head out of the sand and admit that Nikon is mired by complacency and has exploited its customer base for the last time and I am not going to take in any more,  I will be inexplicably compelling all who will listen to joint the class action lawsuit.  We can get out the torches and pitchforks, boycott all future products and enjoy our collective, elite status, by showing each other our markedly superior white lenses in complete solidarity.

I may just elect to fade away and work around whatever impediments the new system is habitually plagued with and just post on the Nikon forum occasionally to boast about the vastly superior gear I have obtained.  That is, of course, if there is even a forum left to berate, belittle and castigate.  Like many who have posted their displeasure here, I am bound to become a better photographer by switching brands, right?  I will also deem it an absolute imperative to provide a necessary public service to the ignorant, uninformed masses, who for years have been purchasing Nikon gear on their misconceived perception that Nikon's legacy of fine optics and rugged, field tested bodies are in not, in any way, indicative of what they should expect in any future Nikon offerings, especially considering, at that point, the company should probably cease to exist anyway.

Maybe I have been reading too many "the onion" articles today, but whatever.

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Chad Gladstone

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(unknown member) Veteran Member • Posts: 4,624
Re: Digiman - Your post has the 'evidence' all other posts anecdotal
5

OldDigiman wrote:

Standing off to the side of the flame wars between trolls and fanboys are people like Roger Cicla of lensrentals.com who deals with large numbers of Nikon products day in and day out. He has an objective view of Nikon QC and service. http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/09/lensrentals-repair-data-january-july-2012

And then there's Thom Hogan, who is aggregating problem reports and thinks that Nikon is way way off the path.

Nikon is a shadow of the company it was in film days, both with regards to QC and customer relations.

Hmm highly interesting and moreso as you say independent. The issue of QC is very apparent and supports the anecdotal statements on this blog, quote ''More notable, to me at least, is that we’ve already had almost 10% of our Canon 5D III and Nikon D800s repaired, despite having them in stock only a few months. I said we usually don’t put things on the list that we’ve had less than 6 months, but this is so noticeable it deserves mention. Once again, early adopters seem to be doing some beta testing.''

Then, the issues of service is worse, but note Nikon vs Canon:

Canon 6 days turnaround $305

Nikon 26 days tirnaround $376

Clearly an issue.

And this is impartial!

I find it highly strange that just because people choose to reply and comment to a blog thread re issues, they are labelled 'having a problem with Nikon'. But here these factual links show clear QC and service issues. No one says they hate Nikon or Canon, but to comment on evidence is perfectly legitimate.

Surely highlighting this should help not hinder Nikon.

Sometimes I think people get too emotional on these sorts of things instead of looking at them analytically.

-- hide signature --

.....Just from an amateur......''Sometimes it's to your advantage for people to think you're crazy.” I am only a hoobyist, I cannot and do not give expert advice, dont expect it, just take it as a suggestion to think about, but only if you wish to. We should try to not wait for life to happen, while it passes us by.

lanefAU
lanefAU Veteran Member • Posts: 6,346
Re: What has happened to Nikon?
2

Prairie Pal wrote:

lanefAU wrote:

Same here, it was a big mistake on my part to jump early on a new model, should have waited at least a year as I did for my D70, D200 & D700.

I'm in the same boat. I was late in the game before I actually picked up and experienced the feel and performance of the D700 and then before I knew it they were no longer available. I regretted not getting one, so when the D600 came out I jumped on it in faith that it was going to be as trouble free and venerable as the D700 despite the plastic build. That's the last time I ever make that mistake with Nikon.

I think Nikon has to be very careful here and listen attentively what kind of feeling is starting to build up among many Nikon users.  When a feeling of mistrust starts to spread, it creates that kind of over cautious sentiment which could influence how users would want to buy any new future bodies and could induce some to jump ship. It's a bit like the economy; if it is being talked down for too long it creates insecurity and a kind of reluctance to spend.

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Rbrt Regular Member • Posts: 133
Re: Misuse of the Forum

Seems to me he/she's using it to get action.

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lanefAU
lanefAU Veteran Member • Posts: 6,346
Re: What has happened to Nikon?

John M. Polston wrote:

I am about to do something I never thought I would. Replace my D700(lenses, flashes, etc.) with a Canon 5DMIII just because of what I've read over the past several months concerning the D800 and D600 debacle(s). Unfortunately I think this is a turning point for Nikon.

I would still like to see a photo taken with the D800 using the far left point as this one

taken by elrey2375: Taken using the far left cluster of AF points.

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1191646

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Robin Casady Forum Pro • Posts: 12,898
Re: Disasters shouldn't negate customer respect

John M Roberts wrote:

CraigBennett wrote:


I am with Robin on this. Similar paths, but I started with a Zeiss Contax II in 1968. These post have made me a little crazy! Even today, I once again tested my two D800e's just to make sure....once again both are as good as I expect. These cameras simple amaze me at how well and fast they focus, especially in low light. Perhaps because I am coming from D1x, D2x, and d90 never having the opportunity to use the D3, D700, etc. my judgment is bias? My D800e's are the finest cameras I have ever owned.

I agree with Robin on the hardships endured by Nikon the company and Nikon the people. I for one think it amazing anything has come out of the destruction. Well stated Robin.

They could have been more transparent in their situation and copped to some of these problems. They could have shared some numbers, if in fact they are so few, to help assure their customers that they care and that buying a D800 doesn't have to be felt like a crapshoot. That they have not done this causes me hesitation. I have never in all my purchases of camera gear from various brands ever had the concerns I have now and that is over 40 years.

To me, the hardships of disaster is no excuse for lack of customer respect.

I have to wonder what planet you are from? Can you think of a company that is quickly forthcoming about problems with their products? It usually only happens when government agencies force them to do recalls.

Toyota was not forthcoming about their QC problems until the US Government and the media had beaten them up severely. Apple has buried a number of QC problems that enraged customers and made for a lot of forum chatter. Remember Ford's handling of the flaming Pinto, and the roll-over SUV?

There were a number of minor problems with the 2007 MINI Cooper S that MINI/BMW tried to hide. They had internal memos on them, so they knew about the problems, but only went public with the things that the government forced them to recall.

Many states in the USA have Lemon Laws for cars because the car companies are so bad about such issues. There has to be a great deal of public sentiment on an issue for lawmakers to go against the corporate lobbyists and enact consumer protection laws.

This expectation that Nikon should be candid about non-lethal problems with their cameras is expecting them to be different from the majority of large corporations. The reasons corporations are this way is because it is what works best for them. If a corporation announced that they have problems, nobody pats them on the back for being honest. They stop buying their products.

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Robin Casady
http://www.robincasady.com/Photo/index.html
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts."
— Bertrand Russell

GroWeb Regular Member • Posts: 152
OT -- Re: singular vs. plural

shigzeo ? wrote:

Nikon is to Canon as Canon is to Nikon. (Add 'are' for English speakers. Remember, I'm drunk. My arguments return to base sentiments as my blood flows black (the Sambuca is black).)

[Rant/] Thanks for highlighting one of the grammatical things that annoy me the most. Proper nouns like "Nikon" and "Canon" are singular not plural; these are individual companies' names and are the precise grammatical equivalent of individual people's names (note: legally, a company is treated as a person). Therefore it is correct to say "Nikon is ..." and incorrect to say "Nikon are ..." [/Rant]

Unlike many people, your grammar apparently improves when you are intoxicated.

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