Olympus trys to Calm our fears once more

Started Feb 14, 2013 | Discussions
illy
illy Forum Pro • Posts: 12,160
Re: Naysayers will still see doom and gloom

CollBaxter wrote:

With n/c half hearted attempts to date to go smaller their users are getting despondent especially the APS-C group. There is a whole market out there waiting to be snapped up but it will take trust as I think a lot of trust has been lost lately in the camera market. For Olympus to kill the 4/3 I think would be a marketing disaster. To continue would be saying we are here for the long haul and we are a camera company.

as Nikon APS-C user and knowing the lie of the land a little bit i think it would be a mistake to go for the APS-C market, most users over there who are thinking of changing systems seem to be going with either FF or m4/3rds. Most of the despondent people are the ones waiting for the D300s replacement which probably won't happen. They need a bang up to date body with a sensor that betters the OMD and be right at the front tech wise, what it doesn't need is a limp wristed model with muddled marketing. Regardless of this it is nice to see a clear statement regarding the future.

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Mr.NoFlash Senior Member • Posts: 2,374
the camera business a bit like formula one racing.

First: the camera business a bit like japanese formula one racing. Most companies spend money in that area and do not close the camera business, while one of the two japanese manufacturers where the camera business is the core business, is in danger.

Craig from Nevada wrote:

About the only thing we know for sure is that the imaging division is bleeding cash. The bleeding has gotten worse over the past 12 months, not better. This has to be stemmed.

Right now there are too many sellers chasing too few buyers. These buyers are tough to catch given the need to update and upgrade systems continuously.

There are short-term and long-term responses.

In the short-term, the easiest way to stem this trend is to cut the losers. I suspect that the point and shoot line is killing them. I think it is killing everyone.

I don't think they are making money on OMD. The camera is a critical success, but is it a commerical success?

I was looking for other systems. m43 is really the mirrorless market leader, m43 is the main system of 2 manufacturers where Nex is one of 2 systems of one manufacturer who has the same financial challenges as Oly and Panny. THe financial situation comes from the high yen. The Yen is currently going down. So perhaps japanese companies overcome their problems

http://de.advfn.com/waehrungsumrechner/yen-zu-dollar.html

Well testwise I bought Samsung Nx but you cannot really say Samsung nx takes market share of m43 away.

Being market leader means the business can be loss-less in the future.

Whats with 4/3 is another question. I will not buy more 4/3 lenses, I accept that the mount length was cut in half due to the turbolences, thats the future. I may buy the last 4/3 camera

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WhyNot
WhyNot Veteran Member • Posts: 7,425
Is it enough?
2

I'm a consumer of cameras... Olympus is a seller. I bought into Olympus DSLRs a few years ago because they provided what I needed at the time and appeared to provide a path forward.... I would like to see an E-50 that compared favorably to Pentax's K-5 or K-30 but there is none (not even on a map of any kind.) Spring is close and I'd like to consider a long macro for better working distance than my ZD50 but Sigma has left and Olympus never delivered. I'd like to see a 400mm f/5.6 to compete with Canon's or a 100-400mm but I don't see any of that in the near future for either 4/3 system ..... 4/3's has certain features that I would like for wildlife and close-up photography but I don't see that there's much interest in supplying those tools..... At some point one has to say enough and move on.. I'm close and while noting that Olympus DSLRs are still alive and maybe there will be one on the shelves tomorrow, that is not enough …. Spring is close.. ... I haven't left yet but I'm getting closer, much closer.....   Not pessimistic, not optimistic just looking at the shelves for systems that meet my desires and pondering whether I can afford to go ...

OP alatchin Senior Member • Posts: 1,055
Re: For a change...

CollBaxter wrote:

This is one of the most concrete statements that Olympus has come out with for a while. And actually I believe them for a change.

The Nay Sayers will of course come up with a zillion reasons why I am wrong. But if you go and look at these posters posting history they are sticking to the party line and will continue even if Olympus released a camera tomorrow. We have the vested interest Nay Sayer group who see any DSLR development pulling off resources from m4/3 and in doing so are stealing from them.

Isnt that group a funny one, they want high end lenses fro Olympus but dont want access to the HG line, a superb set of lenses, excellent value for money.

We have those who are scared that a new release would have them doubting their decision to move to another system.

Here is one of the most entrenched groups, they love olympus, and they hate olympus. Seeing a new high end body release would leave them questioning the money they spent on switching systems, so they watch, and secretly hope. Of course, no matter how good the new camera they will be here posting equivalent numbers, DXO marks and the like.

Then we have the financial geniuses who have done the math and give us all the reasons why its impractical to spend money on a system that exists.

These are the funniest group to me. They simply look at the bottom line and assume that after all the money that has been spent creating the 43rds format, the bodies, lenses and userbase, and now they have better volume in m43rds with potential upgraders they will simply ditch the mount and start again in m43rds... The real bean counters will simply not let it happen. In business you maximise your existing investments.

This group will say things like "the 43rds userbase is nil" and "everyone is abandoning the system" well, where are all the cameras and bodies?? I would snap up a firesale E-5, but no, there are plenty of others out there willing to pay more than me for the body... so I dont have one. I and many others would buy their new DSLR for all the advancements it would put behind my lenses, and it would cost me less than switching systems and buying new lesnses.

There are many more but I actually think the strangest are the ' I told you so." crew who have no other reason than to say " I told you so."

Me for a change I believe Olympus. The words spending less on 4/3 DSLR and compact development I read differently. There have been not new products for 3 years. Olympus could have incurred development costs on what ever they are going to release. Keeping in mind that those costs for a product released today would have been incurred over the last 2 years during development tooling and manufacturing stages. What they could be saying is that there they will be slowing down any future development. We don't know what Olympus has spent on DSLR development. ( The Nay Sayer will say zip)

Remember the Leaked Slide

New E

New OMD

New Up Market compact

As to the compact market the last slew of bottom end compacts that came out where probably in production already before the rationalization and where brought to market to get shot of them. Olympus will continue with the TG series and the ZX and Super zoom stuff but we will not see and bottom sub $200 camera from them again.

Public statements like this will help to calm the jitters I know it has mine and hopefully a few others as well.

You know, i was thinking about this, and hoping I was right about the new body, and my interpretation of all these announcements, then I pop online and see this statement. As bold as one can be, using the word DSLR and stating their commitment.

Olympus are saying don't believe every thing you read in the press or see on TV or hear from the local rep.

And it is about time I would love to see a mock-up of their new body, even if it looks like an E-5, the E-3 was one of the most comfortable cameras I ever owned (the a850 was also very comfortable) and I wouldnt mind owning that form factor again.

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OP alatchin Senior Member • Posts: 1,055
Re: Is it enough?

WhyNot wrote:

I'm a consumer of cameras... Olympus is a seller. I bought into Olympus DSLRs a few years ago because they provided what I needed at the time and appeared to provide a path forward.... I would like to see an E-50 that compared favorably to Pentax's K-5 or K-30 but there is none (not even on a map of any kind.) Spring is close and I'd like to consider a long macro for better working distance than my ZD50 but Sigma has left and Olympus never delivered.

That is the one lens they may develop for 43rds but with a CDAF/PDAF motor... if possible, so all those MMF3s and MMF2s etc get put to good use

I'd like to see a 400mm f/5.6 to compete with Canon's or a 100-400mm but I don't see any of that in the near future for either 4/3 system .....

Well if you mean EFL then 50-200 is 400mm at the long end, if you mean 600mm EFL the 200mm with the 1.4 TC which by all accounts is a solid performer gets you there with a bit more lens speed to boot...

4/3's has certain features that I would like for wildlife and close-up photography but I don't see that there's much interest in supplying those tools..... At some point one has to say enough and move on.. I'm close and while noting that Olympus DSLRs are still alive and maybe there will be one on the shelves tomorrow, that is not enough …. Spring is close.. ... I haven't left yet but I'm getting closer, much closer..... Not pessimistic, not optimistic just looking at the shelves for systems that meet my desires and pondering whether I can afford to go ...

Well, noone can disagree there, if what you want or need isnt there, and you dont want/cant wait then that is a problem... My work is product photography with some portraiture (that is what people pay me for)... SO the OMD with my ZD50 and ZD35 works well, when I do location work the 12-60 works for buildings and the mZD9-18 works well there as well... So I am taken care of, my personal, family is served well by m43rds lenses... However I have been doing some sport photography (ultimate frisbee and volleyball) and now I would love to be able to use my 50-200 again on a fast focussing body But I can wait, it is a hobby for me now.

But, with the release of a new body, I am set



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CollBaxter
CollBaxter Forum Pro • Posts: 12,724
Re: Is it enough?

Very Nice pics.

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Craig from Nevada
Craig from Nevada Veteran Member • Posts: 4,688
Think Pro Sports.....
1

The words from an owner or general manager of a struggling professional sports team in the US that "the coach's job is secure" are the surest sign the coach is going to be fired and soon.

The Olympus story gives me the same feeling.

One silly rumor puts the company in spin control.  Things sound serious.

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pris Senior Member • Posts: 2,191
Re: Think Pro Sports.....

Craig from Nevada wrote:

One silly rumor puts the company in spin control. Things sound serious.

I wouldn't read it this way. It's a rumor that went to the heart of the long-standing controversy and long wait ; it got spread fast and wide; it was a good PR (well, as much as words "good PR" can be put in the same sentence with Olympus, LOL) in their part to quench it asap.

ravduc
ravduc Senior Member • Posts: 2,062
Re: Naysayers will still see doom and gloom

In total agreement with your comments CollBaxter. Olympus has always said that they would continue providing cameras for four thirds. The system has been developped with an excellent lens choice. All they need now is a new body with the latest technology. Many who have moved to micro four thirds from Canon or Nikon might very well be tempted to try out a four thirds slr body knowing what a four thirds sensor can do. The micro four thirds success has helped with getting rid of some of the prejudices that many aps-c users had towards the size of the four thirds sensor. Some of us prefer dslr's.

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Roger Engelken
Roger Engelken Veteran Member • Posts: 5,310
Look down the barrel of the lens...
1

Craig from Nevada wrote:

The words from an owner or general manager of a struggling professional sports team in the US that "the coach's job is secure" are the surest sign the coach is going to be fired and soon.

The Olympus story gives me the same feeling.

One silly rumor puts the company in spin control. Things sound serious.

You are free to choose to read it that way, with the glass half empty as it where.  Lord knows we have a camp of "nay-sayers" that seem to come in with that or a similar line.  It grows more tiresome with each iteration.

There are numerous product manufacturers and lines out there to choose from.  No single such manufacturer will meet the needs of the entire photography base, but chances are one or more out there will meet the needs of an individual.

You are correct, a silly rumor was placed and before long it was bought into by more than a few.  Such is the world of human nature.  The company responded to this baseless rumor, and as a responsible business who should be about protecting and more importantly servicing their customer base, that was the only sound option immediately available (and yes you can argue whether the customer base is being serviced, that is in the eye of the beholder).

I have no idea what the future holds for Olympus, of for any other manufacturer, or for anything for that matter, and that suits me just fine.

Sometimes the glass can be half full, even if we don't know where that glass will end up.   Speaking of glass, mine is attached to my camera body....time to get back to photography.  Lighten up and enjoy the challenge of life behind the viewfinder. :-D

Roger.

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Roger Engelken
Roger Engelken Veteran Member • Posts: 5,310
Re: For a change...

CollBaxter wrote:

This is one of the most concrete statements that Olympus has come out with for a while. And actually I believe them for a change.

The Nay Sayers will of course come up with a zillion reasons why I am wrong. But if you go and look at these posters posting history they are sticking to the party line and will continue even if Olympus released a camera tomorrow. We have the vested interest Nay Sayer group who see any DSLR development pulling off resources from m4/3 and in doing so are stealing from them. We have those who are scared that a new release would have them doubting their decision to move to another system. Then we have the financial geniuses who have done the math and give us all the reasons why its impractical to spend money on a system that exists. There are many more but I actually think the strangest are the ' I told you so." crew who have no other reason than to say " I told you so."

Me for a change I believe Olympus. The words spending less on 4/3 DSLR and compact development I read differently. There have been not new products for 3 years. Olympus could have incurred development costs on what ever they are going to release. Keeping in mind that those costs for a product released today would have been incurred over the last 2 years during development tooling and manufacturing stages. What they could be saying is that there they will be slowing down any future development. We don't know what Olympus has spent on DSLR development. ( The Nay Sayer will say zip)

Remember the Leaked Slide

New E

New OMD

New Up Market compact

As to the compact market the last slew of bottom end compacts that came out where probably in production already before the rationalization and where brought to market to get shot of them. Olympus will continue with the TG series and the ZX and Super zoom stuff but we will not see and bottom sub $200 camera from them again.

Public statements like this will help to calm the jitters I know it has mine and hopefully a few others as well.

Olympus are saying don't believe every thing you read in the press or see on TV or hear from the local rep.

Thank you Colin for taking the time to write this.  It is a well written and studied response to the Nay Sayer crowd as well as a take on the statement from Olympus.  We need more reasoned postings and more photography on this forum.

Roger.

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Messier Object Veteran Member • Posts: 7,324
Re: Is it enough?
1

WhyNot wrote:

. . . Spring is close and I'd like to consider a long macro for better working distance than my ZD50 but Sigma has left and Olympus never delivered.

Do you need AF for macro shooting ?  I certainly don't. The AF motor is  there to get the lens close to where I will finish with MF by adjusting the camera-subject distance  using my focus stage | bellows|  or if hand-held by rocking back-forward.

Have you tried any of the Zuiko legacy Macros lenses ?

The OM Zuiko 135mm f/4.5 is a great macro lens if you want to extend your working distance.
I even tried it with a cheap 2 x converter, and it was so good I bought a genuine OM 2X-A.

See  my recent posts in the Weekly Close-up - all with the OMZ135mm !

Have you tried the 50-200mm with the EX-25 ?   Now there is a combo that gives you excellent working distance and terrific IQ.  Sure it's big and heavy, but the zoom feature adds a whole lot of flexibility with respect to your working distance

IMO there are several options beyond the 50mm f/2 macro.

Peter

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CollBaxter
CollBaxter Forum Pro • Posts: 12,724
Re: Look down the barrel of the lens...

Roger Engelken wrote:

Craig from Nevada wrote:

The words from an owner or general manager of a struggling professional sports team in the US that "the coach's job is secure" are the surest sign the coach is going to be fired and soon.

The Olympus story gives me the same feeling.

One silly rumor puts the company in spin control. Things sound serious.

You are free to choose to read it that way, with the glass half empty as it where. Lord knows we have a camp of "nay-sayers" that seem to come in with that or a similar line. It grows more tiresome with each iteration.

There are numerous product manufacturers and lines out there to choose from. No single such manufacturer will meet the needs of the entire photography base, but chances are one or more out there will meet the needs of an individual.

You are correct, a silly rumor was placed and before long it was bought into by more than a few. Such is the world of human nature. The company responded to this baseless rumor, and as a responsible business who should be about protecting and more importantly servicing their customer base, that was the only sound option immediately available (and yes you can argue whether the customer base is being serviced, that is in the eye of the beholder).

I have no idea what the future holds for Olympus, of for any other manufacturer, or for anything for that matter, and that suits me just fine.

Sometimes the glass can be half full, even if we don't know where that glass will end up. Speaking of glass, mine is attached to my camera body....time to get back to photography. Lighten up and enjoy the challenge of life behind the viewfinder. :-D

Roger.

Roger I think this statement has thrown the fox in the hen house amongst a few users who have been justifying their move to another system or m4/3 or are now having to reconsider their/our move next move.

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Geo Wharton Senior Member • Posts: 1,318
Re: a glass half full/empty statement
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WhyNot
WhyNot Veteran Member • Posts: 7,425
Re: Is it enough?

Those are very nice pictures..  You certainly don't share my angst..

The 50-200mm seems to be a very nice lens that I've never owned.. All my lenses are Olympus CDAF compliant except for the 50mm. I've used all my lenses on a mFT system for the last 18 months trying to convince myself that it will someday take the place of the FT system.. I've come to the conclusion that for me it is a different system that has it's own strengths and weaknesses and won't replace the FT system completely. I intend to keep the mFT for travel and landscape (not a big part of what I do.) …..... As you can guess I would have spent more with Olympus if they hadn't announced the suspension of developing new lenses for FT, Sigma hadn't left ,and the “End of FT” hadn't started here on these forums all about the time Olympus released the E-5, making it very likely that any purchases would be followed by the hassle of selling those items or having far more paper weights than I need..... I would also say that my current FT system satisfies 70% of my enjoyment of photography if I never acquired another item. So my questions comes down to the Utilitarian conundrum of whether satisfying that other 30% would provide enough enjoyment to warrant the cost in time and money needed to switch to another system. ….. As to doing it now rather than waiting, well I guess we all reach a point where procrastinating further makes no sense.

WhyNot
WhyNot Veteran Member • Posts: 7,425
Re: Is it enough?

Messier Object wrote:

WhyNot wrote:

. . . Spring is close and I'd like to consider a long macro for better working distance than my ZD50 but Sigma has left and Olympus never delivered.

Do you need AF for macro shooting ? I certainly don't. The AF motor is there to get the lens close to where I will finish with MF by adjusting the camera-subject distance using my focus stage | bellows| or if hand-held by rocking back-forward.

Have you tried any of the Zuiko legacy Macros lenses ?

The OM Zuiko 135mm f/4.5 is a great macro lens if you want to extend your working distance.
I even tried it with a cheap 2 x converter, and it was so good I bought a genuine OM 2X-A.

See my recent posts in the Weekly Close-up - all with the OMZ135mm !

Have you tried the 50-200mm with the EX-25 ? Now there is a combo that gives you excellent working distance and terrific IQ. Sure it's big and heavy, but the zoom feature adds a whole lot of flexibility with respect to your working distance

IMO there are several options beyond the 50mm f/2 macro.

Peter

I guess most my response is found in my reply to alatchin. In reality my close-up needs are almost completely covered by the 50mm and the 70-300mm, a remarkably versatile lens...My problem with the 100mm macro is probably more irritation that it doesn't currently exist than my not being able to buy it... Yes I find AF very useful in many situations where I can't take the time and/or to put up the tripod to use LV. (MF with macro lenses actually works better for me with the mFT's EVF.) ….... ........However. most of the 30% mentioned in the earlier reply is from AF and use of the E-30 and the 70-300 in low light – such as late in the day and under a tree canopy. Also since I spend a lot of time with small birds I would appreciate better resolution to make cropping a little easier... So a better sensor, better AF, and a lens that responds a little better … mFT doesn't seem to be the answer and all of these features are promised in the next Olympus body only in the speculation found in these forums; and even if it were to materialize it won't be on any shelves this year and is actually promised by Olympus when?

But, as I wrote elsewhere I haven't come up with a final answer to my conundrum (but I'm getting close) and I may still be content with 70% and do nothing. I'm sure that I'm not alone here.

TrapperJohn Forum Pro • Posts: 16,488
That loss is for the entire division

Including the P&S line, which Olympus had quite a few. The market for the P&S camera has all but disappeared in the last year. That would account for a big chunk of the losses.

Olympus has put quite a bit of R&D into M43: the electromagnetic IBIS, the EM5, the high grade primes. M43 in general is considered the leading force in mirrorless, which is a rapidly growing segment. Would they be investing in development if they were losing a big chunk of money on it?

Don't know what the profit/loss looks like with 4/3... there have been no new products since the E5.

My best hope is that they keep the HG and SHG glass viable, one way or another.

Messier Object Veteran Member • Posts: 7,324
Re: Is it enough?

I didn't read through all of the responses in this thread, I was just responding to your comment about macro working distance.

I agree with your comments re the current 4/3 sensor. You may have noticed I'm using the OMZ 135mm on a Canon 5DIII. The 5D was not intended as a 4/3 replacement, but I'm finding that it allows me to do things that are impossible with the E-30 or E-5.

With the canon I can use M mode , set the shutter speed for what I need (eg fast for bug in flight or flower swaying in a breeze), and independently set the Aperture for the required DOF.
With Auto ISO the camera does the rest. In bad light 1/1000 sec at f/11 without a flash is easy work when ISO 12800 is usable (picture below). So you aren't the only one looking to Olympus for a better sensor in a new DSLR

Peter





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Darrell500
Darrell500 Senior Member • Posts: 2,133
Re: the camera business a bit like formula one racing.
5

Whats with 4/3 is another question. I will not buy more 4/3 lenses, I accept that the mount length was cut in half due to the turbolences, thats the future. I may buy the last 4/3 camera

I enjoyed reading your post right up until the end, really you may buy the LAST 4/3 CAMERA? For petes's sakes they haven't even released it yet and your buying the last 43 camera SHOW ME WHERE YOU GOT YOUR INFORMATION THAT IT IS THE LAST 4/3 CAMERA!!!

I said this in another post that this is the same as it was leading to the E-3 then E-5 and now the E-? isn't released yet and your starting in already I give up some of your just won't be happy until you here that 4/3 is dead even so called users of the system.

I know some of you analyze this to death and I'm sure your right just as you have been in the past, OOPPPPSSS I almost forgot you haven't been right yet!!

EXCUSE MY TIRADE JUST GOT HOME FROM HOSPITAL AND ANOTHER SURGERY 3RD ONE AND I TOOK A BUCH OF PAIN MEDS SO  MY TOLERANCE FOR STUPIDITY IS LOW

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Darrell

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DonParrot Veteran Member • Posts: 4,967
Re: Olympus assures us of a DSLR - and what size?

dave gaines wrote:

For my use, I like the size and weight of the E-5. I can't see how they'd fit all of the easy access creative controls and a swivelling LCD on a smaller body that's as rugged and weather-proof as the E-5.

Well, Pentax proved with the K-7/K-5 that it can be done, didn't they?

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