Teach me something - C&C please

To tell you the truth, i find it amazing, inspiring, sensitive and filled with meanings. I personally love it. Congratulations and good luck in the future

Well I like it too (Not that I know too much) it is your daughters engrossment in what she is doing that draws me in, I am wondering what she is doing and why.

Look forward to some more from you.

Carol

A Storm Coming

I hate giving feedback because I am by no means an expert having only gotten my first DSLR about a month ago (also a 650D). If I had to take a guess, I would say that what you don't like about this picture is the background in the top left corner. If that's the case, I agree with you, it would've been better if it wasn't there. Also, while the title is great, and I believe you when you say a storm was coming, the only thing that hints at the idea of a storm is the white balance (which I find spot on by the way and gives it a "stormy" mood) and maybe the hair blowing in the wind. We don't see any clouds though. Having said all that, overall, I really enjoy this picture and it's definitely a keeper. Good job!

Iris13 wrote: To tell you the truth, i find it amazing, inspiring, sensitive and filled with meanings. I personally love it. Congratulations and good luck in the future

Thank you!

Car629 wrote: Well I like it too (Not that I know too much) it is your daughters engrossment in what she is doing that draws me in, I am wondering what she is doing and why.

Thanks for the encouragement!

Illegal Mexican wrote: I hate giving feedback because I am by no means an expert having only gotten my first DSLR about a month ago (also a 650D). If I had to take a guess, I would say that what you don't like about this picture is the background in the top left corner. If that's the case, I agree with you, it would've been better if it wasn't there. Also, while the title is great, and I believe you when you say a storm was coming, the only thing that hints at the idea of a storm is the white balance (which I find spot on by the way and gives it a "stormy" mood) and maybe the hair blowing in the wind. We don't see any clouds though. Having said all that, overall, I really enjoy this picture and it's definitely a keeper. Good job!

Funnily, I hadn't noticed the top left corner so much, but now that you mention it, that's going to bug me too . About the title, you've got a good point. Actually  I was just being cheeky with words - my daughter is 6, going on 13, and has been something of a handful lately. The title is adouble entendre to hint at, whilst there was a storm blowing in, she's the real storm that is coming!

Lemming51 wrote: My first reaction was I didn't like the cropping of the ends of her fingers. On the other hand, it did produce the reaction you were going for, some "tension" wondering what she is focused on.

Yes - I could try to sell it that way, but the reality is that I was disappointed at cutting off the ends of her fingers, and also the nuts that she was lining up on the stones.

AvyMan wrote: Nice candid photo! Often better than stiff poses IMHO. My comments would be that it's cropped a little too tight in the foreground, and the upper left corner is somewhat distracting, especially since it's so close to your subject. The good bokeh helped, though, by using a large aperture (small f/number). Her face and hair around it is a little dark. This could easily be "corrected" with a touch of fill light in PP to lighten that area up, but to your taste (if you even want to) not mine.

Thank you! I actually feel like I missed the ideal focus - I would have liked to shift the focus further in towards her face, rather than making it the extreme foreground. I think the AF caught on her hair, when I should've manually focused on her tummy or face. One of the problems with the Tamron lens is that the AF is less than ideal, which makes me want to try out a Canon lens instead.

baneling wrote: I think its a great picture and not sure I could have done better. but if I was the photographer, I would have tried a wider angle so we can see her surroundings more and so her fingers wouldn't be cropped out like the other guy said. I also would increase the shadows a little so her face would be brighter and we can see the area between the left side of her head and her hair.

Thank you, I do agree about the fingers - I only managed to get three snaps in before she ran off, and this was the best of the three.

imqqmi wrote: Cloudy weather can be very good to shoot portraits in as the light is very soft without the harsh shadows the sun produces.

What I like about it is the tones you've made in this shot. You did a good pp job on it. I also like that the photo was taken like a candid shot.

What bothers me slightly is the hidden limbs that makes it hard to find out how she's posing. The hair over her arm and the close proximity of the hand to the camera makes it disproportionately large. That fact the the leg on the ground is towards the camera hiding the top of the leg from view makes for an uncomfortable pose to look at (in my opinion). I would've shifted my angle to the right so that both legs are fully in view, allowing a better look at her face too probably, and the hand would be farther from the camera making it proportional again.

I'd darken the top left corner a bit, it is a bit distracting. The branches near the foot is a bit distracting as well. If you have a photo editor you might want to try cloning it out.

Her face is slightly out of focus and a bit too dark, might want to brighten it a bit. If the hand was the main focus it should've been fully in the frame, maybe shooting wide open at 50mm, backing off slightly to re-frame it. This will blur the rest more putting the focus on the hand if that was the intention. Otherwise usually you'd want to have the face in focus. Since the hair is in the way I'd choose a focus target on the same focal plane as the face like her left hand (viewers right). But if you shifted the angle that wouldn't have worked of course.

Overall good effort, try to focus on composition a bit and where you focus.

Keep shooting!

Fantastic, really appreciate your feedback! I was disappointed with the focus point, and did wish that her face had been the sharp point - focusing on the other hand might have done it! I might have a fiddle in Elements to see what more I can do to improve the outcome, as you have described.

dave vichich wrote: I hope you don't mind, I brought this photo into my computer and did some work to it.

I'll post what I did after I comment. At your request, I'll remove the reworked photo...

...I took a crack at this, I hope that's ok.

I felt that it wasn't telling the story of the up coming storm. I thought that the colors were a bit drab, so I got rid of them. I said before I didn't like the stick, so I got rid of it.

I felt that her hair and what she's doing was the story, so that's what I tried to bring out. I lightened her face slightly so you can see that she working hard at what's she's doing. I may have over sharpened the foreground a bit, but I kind of liked it so I left it. In turning it into a black and white, I feel that the upper left corner isn't all that bad now.

Let me know what you think.

Wow, Dave thanks for taking the time and effort, really excited that you did that.

First impressions - I love it. You've managed to add more drama and "dystopia" such that it suits the title even better. I really like the emphasis on the tones and wind in the hair, and your work has removed the distraction in the top left corner and the stick by her feet, and also revealed her face better than before.

I do feel your edit is probably quite sharp, so that it almost looks embossed (at least on my crappy monitor at work). I feel that takes it from being a casual moment to the realm of photo-art, but I do love that - it's almost like an alternative interpretation of the photo.

How did you go about the edit? In full-blown PS, or just Elements? Did you take classes to learn, or just fiddle as you went?

That's a good picture of your child, showing her while she plays in the sand.  For C&C, I hope I can help.  This is the best way that I can explain it.  Remember first that everything in the photo is important (not just the subject matter).

So by understanding that, you could have moved around slightly to have had a better background.  Sometimes it only takes a few inches...think about that next time you are looking through the viewfinder or the LCD.  I would have had her more towards the center, (but still offset to the left).  There's much too much empty space on the right.  The upper left part of the background is distracting.  I don't like cropping off the top of the head, although some people take closeup portraits of people that way.  I would have shown more of the surroundings...basically backed off a little so the fingers aren't so close to the bottom.

The good part of the photo is your child, so by thinking of the other things in the photo...that could improve it a lot.  Plus I would have waited until she had shown more of her face in better lighting.  It's similar to whether I'm taking pictures of birds or people...waiting for the precise moment when they turn the head a certain way.  A lot of this is subjective, as each person likes different things different ways.  So, experiment some...a most importantly create a picture in the way that best looks good to you.

Digirame wrote: Remember first that everything in the photo is important (not just the subject matter).

Great - that sounds so obvious, but I didn't really think about it until you've said it. I'm going to file that in the forefront of my brain

So by understanding that, you could have moved around slightly to have had a better background. Sometimes it only takes a few inches...think about that next time you are looking through the viewfinder or the LCD. I would have had her more towards the center, (but still offset to the left). There's much too much empty space on the right. The upper left part of the background is distracting. I don't like cropping off the top of the head, although some people take closeup portraits of people that way. I would have shown more of the surroundings...basically backed off a little so the fingers aren't so close to the bottom.

The good part of the photo is your child, so by thinking of the other things in the photo...that could improve it a lot. Plus I would have waited until she had shown more of her face in better lighting. It's similar to whether I'm taking pictures of birds or people...waiting for the precise moment when they turn the head a certain way. A lot of this is subjective, as each person likes different things different ways. So, experiment some...a most importantly create a picture in the way that best looks good to you.

Thanks Digirame - I do like the photo, but I know it is imperfect, which is why I posted it up for a critique. Several things were happening at that moment in time - the storm was blowing in and I was worrying about the (non weatherproofed) 650D getting rained on; the wind was picking up fast and the lighting was changing with the clouds; and the kids were jumping around like mad. When my daughter sat down to line up the fallen tree nuts at the base of the monument, I got that anxious/excited feeling that "this could be a great shot", but I knew I only had seconds until she jumped up again to run off. So I ducked down quickly and began to snap - one, two, three shots and she was gone. I wonder at what point it becomes second nature to zoom/frame/focus/shoot with such proficiency as to get-it-right in that tiny moment of opportunity. Fiddling around with Manual mode has given me a new found respect for the experts

dave vichich wrote: This edit was with CS6. I haven't taken any classes, but I read a lot of stuff on the net, and I have watched quite a few videos from Russell Brown about editing using Photoshop. (just do a search)

I have been using Photoshop or Elements for 10 or more years.

I wish I would have recorded with quicktime what I did, cause when I start working on an image, I try so many things that sometimes I forget what I did and when.

In camera raw, yes, you can run JPG's through camera raw, I lightened the shadows some, raised the highlights some, and turned it into a black and white.

In CS6, I removed the stick using the clone tool. I then used the healing brush to even that area out. I then made two duplicate layers. One to add grit, one to smooth the background and her skin. Along with the layers, I added a mask. A mask makes it so you let some of that layer though, but not all of it. So I molded the layer masks as I wanted, making the foreground and her hair be (probably) a bit overcooked. The smoothening layer is there to smooth out her legs, arms, and the background.

It probably took about 10 - 15 minutes before I had where it was pretty much to my liking.

I don't know how much post processing you've done, but it's worth your time to develop some skills at it.

I hope this helped some.

Thanks again Dave, you make it sound so simple but in fact your terms are a whole new language for me . The extent of my post-processing experience has been clicking one or two presets on iPhoto, but I've now started to experiment with Elements, so I have a long way to go.

10 minutes to achieve all your processing is quite a feat, I'm going to take some time to watch Russell Brown vids  as you have suggested.

To round out the discussion, here is another shot taken at the same time, this time of the figure standing atop the war monument. I thought that the figure against the cloudy sky would make for a nice shot. I added a sepia effect to enhance the drama, but I wonder how it would have looked with a ND filter and tripod! Next investment - a tripod.

For King and Country

A Little Wonder

Had the occasion to visit friends who have a one week old bub today. Took the opportunity to play with my new acquisitions - the 40mm pancake STM, and a 430EX II speedlite. I only took a handful of snaps, and I still don't know anything about using the speedlite, but I liked this shot.

I'm still frustrated by focusing - in this photo, the focus seems to be on my wife's upper sleeve, even though the autofocus confirmation flashed over the babe's face, which mas my intended target.

How do you guys and gals approach focusing? Is it a matter of russian roulette with the AF? (Either half-pressing the shutter-button repeatedly until the satisfactory AF point is auto-selected, or taking so many photos that one of them will have the appropriate AF point?) Or do you focus manually, and risk missing "the moment"?

Any focusing tips or C&C of the photo would be welcomed.

(PS: Used the clone tool in Elements to remove the edge of an iPod that was sitting on the arm of the couch, thanks for the tip dave vichich!)

That's a nice photo, seeing them look towards the baby.

Have you tried center autofocus?  Also you can step down the lens to increase the depth of field.  You have that at F2.8.  Try something like F4 to F5.6 and see how that changes things.  That may require ISO1600 and higher to achieve an adequate shutter speed, but the images still look good at those ISO levels.  I'll probably use ISO1600 a lot today with our cloudy weather.

f3nr15 wrote:

A Little Wonder

Had the occasion to visit friends who have a one week old bub today. Took the opportunity to play with my new acquisitions - the 40mm pancake STM, and a 430EX II speedlite. I only took a handful of snaps, and I still don't know anything about using the speedlite, but I liked this shot.

I'm still frustrated by focusing - in this photo, the focus seems to be on my wife's upper sleeve, even though the autofocus confirmation flashed over the babe's face, which mas my intended target.

How do you guys and gals approach focusing? Is it a matter of russian roulette with the AF? (Either half-pressing the shutter-button repeatedly until the satisfactory AF point is auto-selected, or taking so many photos that one of them will have the appropriate AF point?) Or do you focus manually, and risk missing "the moment"?

There are all kinds of approaches to focusing involving setting off-center focus points or using them all. My preference is the old standby of selecting the center focus point, putting it on the part of the photo which must be in focus, half-pressing the shutter to get focus, then shifting the camera to get the right framing - then take the photo. It's easy, quick, and generally works well.

Any focusing tips or C&C of the photo would be welcomed.

(PS: Used the clone tool in Elements to remove the edge of an iPod that was sitting on the arm of the couch, thanks for the tip dave vichich!)

Re this photo - I think I'd have tried to get more of the adults' faces in it if they were meant to be in the picture (and I am sure they were). There is a large dark area of hair taking up too much of the photo. Also this is a good example of why I shoot RAW, because it makes it easy to go in and adjust the white balance. For my taste this photo is too 'orange-y' and doesn't look like the real scene did. It's almost more like a sepia-tint monochrome. If that's the look you wanted then you did get it, but it's not what I'd choose.

This is not a bad 'snapshot' - type of photo but you should try (assuming you didn't) to get some shots with just a good view of that beautiful new youngster, especially his face. Certainly take pics of the baby with the older generation! I'm big on kids and babies and family shots myself. But look for the special photo that sometimes is within the scene, not just the overall scene.

You're welcome to click on my username and view my gallery. I have a 'baby pics' album. Maybe you'll get some ideas. I'm a big believer in looking at what others do that works well and then drawing inspiration from them. I do it all the time. Good luck and keep shooting.

f3nr15 wrote:

To round out the discussion, here is another shot taken at the same time, this time of the figure standing atop the war monument. I thought that the figure against the cloudy sky would make for a nice shot. I added a sepia effect to enhance the drama, but I wonder how it would have looked with a ND filter and tripod! Next investment - a tripod.

For King and Country

First - I don't see the need for a ND filter here or basically anyplace. If you want to make the sky more dramatic you might get some help from a circular polarizer, depending on which direction the light is coming from.

Avoid the trap of shooting B&W just 'because'. Too many people think anything shot in B&W suddenly becomes art. It doesn't. Sometimes B&w works really well but so often it is overused and misused for the wrong reason. I've seen B&W shots of food, of custom-painted motorcycles, of too many things where the color makes for the beauty of the subject. Go ahead and shoot B&W or better yet convert a color shot to B&W in post processing if you like, but don't fall for the idea that B&W automatically makes a photo into art. It can make for a strong character study, it can work well with a really dramatic sky / outdoor scene, but lots of people just jump straight to B&W for no discernible reason.

You did well to make sure the 'for king and country' was showing in the photo, but to be honest I find photos of statues, monuments, paintings, street graffiti and other 'pictures of others' artwork' to be pretty dull stuff. There's usually little to no real composition involved, just 'here is a picture of someone else's work'. Now if you were at a war memorial and there was an old soldier with his uniform or cap, maybe sitting in a wheelchair looking at the monument, that could make for a powerful photo because it captures a moment. Just imagining what the is going through the old vet's mind right then is compelling to me - he might be remembering a battle where his buddy died, or just thinking back on what his life was like when he was sixty years younger and in uniform.

I guess that's going to be my point. I know everyone's taste is different but I much prefer a photo that captures a moment, or makes me think or smile -not because it's pretty like a picture of a flower, but because there is something going on in it that touches my heart or mind. Those to me are the special photos, the ones that are hardest to spot even though they are often right before us.

Lots of people would disagree with me but 'clinical' photos of things - flowers, birds, statues, etc - may be very pretty but they are all simply not special. All they say to me is 'here is a flower, here is a bird, here is a statue'. They are generic and forgettable. My favorite photos are the ones I look back on over and over because they make a connection inside me. Learn to spot the photo ops that are unique or unusual and then you'll be really taking photos you can be proud of. When I'm not 'inspired' or don't know what I want to take photos of, I don't just get out my camera and start pointing it at flowers in the yard. Lots of people do that and those kinds of photos are (to ME) a waste of time to take, or to view.

Your mileage may vary.

Midwest wrote:

f3nr15 wrote:

A Little Wonder

There are all kinds of approaches to focusing involving setting off-center focus points or using them all. My preference is the old standby of selecting the center focus point, putting it on the part of the photo which must be in focus, half-pressing the shutter to get focus, then shifting the camera to get the right framing - then take the photo. It's easy, quick, and generally works well.

Re this photo - I think I'd have tried to get more of the adults' faces in it if they were meant to be in the picture (and I am sure they were). There is a large dark area of hair taking up too much of the photo. Also this is a good example of why I shoot RAW, because it makes it easy to go in and adjust the white balance. For my taste this photo is too 'orange-y' and doesn't look like the real scene did. It's almost more like a sepia-tint monochrome. If that's the look you wanted then you did get it, but it's not what I'd choose.

This is not a bad 'snapshot' - type of photo but you should try (assuming you didn't) to get some shots with just a good view of that beautiful new youngster, especially his face. Certainly take pics of the baby with the older generation! I'm big on kids and babies and family shots myself. But look for the special photo that sometimes is within the scene, not just the overall scene.

You're welcome to click on my username and view my gallery. I have a 'baby pics' album. Maybe you'll get some ideas. I'm a big believer in looking at what others do that works well and then drawing inspiration from them. I do it all the time. Good luck and keep shooting.

Thank you, I appreciate the input.

To chat a little of my approach and philosophy - my purpose in this hobby is, like many, to capture the moment and the meaning. I'm very new to "the art", and in that respect most of my photos are going to be snapshots. I'm not at the point of staging pictures, and even feel uncomfortable giving people directions to allow composition, because I feel it takes away from the "reality" of the situation.

Now having said that, I take very few photos, and despite their snapshot nature, I am trying hard to think and compose with each. In this instance, I have a small connection to the new baby, but a much more significant connection to my wife and daughter. The "moment" I was trying to capture was the unspoken lesson between my wife and my daughter taking place, which is the gentleness of holding a new baby - my wife has her arm protectively around the baby, with my daughter also practicing a tentative embrace. I wanted to the viewer to immediately focus on the newborn as the focal point, but then to recognise the "wonder" of the two holding him to be the story. So, I wanted the babe to be sharp and the bystanders to be a little softer, hence the f2.8 - I had a flash there anyway, and would have been able to use a larger DOF if I had wanted.

I chuckled about your comment re the tint - I'm a bit hung up on sepia at the moment because I'm enjoying the vintage look, but despite pleasing me, it probably annoys most. I'll cut back on the sepia in the future!

Taking some of your pointers in to account, here's a less processed version of the photo with a tighter crop, centred on the babe a little more - do you think this works better in conveying the moment?

A Little Wonder - alterative crop, no processing

Finally, I had a look at your gallery and I really like the compositions of the kids, great stuff.

Midwest wrote:

First - I don't see the need for a ND filter here or basically anyplace. If you want to make the sky more dramatic you might get some help from a circular polarizer, depending on which direction the light is coming from.

Avoid the trap of shooting B&W just 'because'. Too many people think anything shot in B&W suddenly becomes art. It doesn't. Sometimes B&w works really well but so often it is overused and misused for the wrong reason. I've seen B&W shots of food, of custom-painted motorcycles, of too many things where the color makes for the beauty of the subject. Go ahead and shoot B&W or better yet convert a color shot to B&W in post processing if you like, but don't fall for the idea that B&W automatically makes a photo into art. It can make for a strong character study, it can work well with a really dramatic sky / outdoor scene, but lots of people just jump straight to B&W for no discernible reason.

You did well to make sure the 'for king and country' was showing in the photo, but to be honest I find photos of statues, monuments, paintings, street graffiti and other 'pictures of others' artwork' to be pretty dull stuff. There's usually little to no real composition involved, just 'here is a picture of someone else's work'. Now if you were at a war memorial and there was an old soldier with his uniform or cap, maybe sitting in a wheelchair looking at the monument, that could make for a powerful photo because it captures a moment. Just imagining what the is going through the old vet's mind right then is compelling to me - he might be remembering a battle where his buddy died, or just thinking back on what his life was like when he was sixty years younger and in uniform.

I guess that's going to be my point. I know everyone's taste is different but I much prefer a photo that captures a moment, or makes me think or smile -not because it's pretty like a picture of a flower, but because there is something going on in it that touches my heart or mind. Those to me are the special photos, the ones that are hardest to spot even though they are often right before us.

Lots of people would disagree with me but 'clinical' photos of things - flowers, birds, statues, etc - may be very pretty but they are all simply not special. All they say to me is 'here is a flower, here is a bird, here is a statue'. They are generic and forgettable. My favorite photos are the ones I look back on over and over because they make a connection inside me. Learn to spot the photo ops that are unique or unusual and then you'll be really taking photos you can be proud of. When I'm not 'inspired' or don't know what I want to take photos of, I don't just get out my camera and start pointing it at flowers in the yard. Lots of people do that and those kinds of photos are (to ME) a waste of time to take, or to view.

Your mileage may vary.

Thank you again!

I COMPLETELY understand where you are coming from. Since my DSLR kick began in November, I haven't generally taken any photos of anything except for people, and mainly my kids! I do struggle to maintain an emotional connection to pictures of still life, scenery etc. However, I want to learn to be versatile in my ability, hence this photo.

This monument is around the corner from home, and kids are always playing around it. While I'm standing by it waiting for the monkeys to expend their energy, I invariable read the names of the fallen and cast a glance at the lonely figure atop it. So I guess I do have a connection of sorts to the object. In shooting it, I would have liked to capture the loneliness and constancy of that figure.

With respect to the processing, I think the B+W adds a little drama to what would otherwise be an unremarkable picture (plan version below). And, once again, I've snuck the sepia in!

For King and Country - no processing