Advice on panorama software

Started Jan 28, 2013 | Questions
3dreal Senior Member • Posts: 2,271
Re: Advice on panorama software

For my few panoramas i had to stitch after scanning(i have rotapancams) i used panorama-factory. It has a rectinliniar feature which i have seen in altostorm rectiliniar first. now named panorama corrector.

panoguide.com is the right forum for panoramas.

hree is a panorama-non-stitched since its a scan from a b+w-contact. 6x41cm all around. I am loving the first day when i can use a more compact solution(DPxM) for travelling. Cam alone is 6kgs.

www.auschwitzpanorama.tk

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3375104

-- hide signature --

www.stereopan.org

Park70 Regular Member • Posts: 226
Re: Advice on panorama software

Photoshop CS6 has an outstanding Panorama feature which is better than the Panorama Factory I have.

Look under File, Automate, Photomerge and there are a number of options available.

This feature can be also used for Focus Stacking by deselecting Blend Images Together at the bottom of the box, running Automate, then select all layers in the Layers Pallet, then under Edit, use Auto Blend Layers and your Images are stacked into one photo.

mike earussi Veteran Member • Posts: 7,574
Re: Advice on panorama software

Usee wrote:

mike earussi wrote:

Usee wrote:

mike earussi wrote:

Usee wrote:



3 DP1s shots stitched with PanoramaStudio and with less artifacts than with ICE, Hugin, or PTGui

In most Panorama pictures I see on the web...

...including those which are shown in this very forum,

I almost always see strong artifacts - try to find them within my PanoramaStudio Pro example...

...within the original in my gallery - not within the resized versions shown here - which have lot's of artifacts.

-

P.S.:

A little explanation is given in the gallery for the best output out of 8 panorama programs!

-- hide signature --

Envy is the highest form of recognition.
Stop to run, start to think.
Think twice - that doubles the fun!
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Uli

At your suggestion I downloaded Panorama Studio Pro and tried it on a pano I was having trouble rendering correctly in ICE. I do find it relatively easier to use than some of the other "professional" pano stitching programs I've tried, thought not quite as easy to use as ICE. But unfortunately it still had trouble with my pano, having as many (though different), if not more, stitching errors than ICE. And so my search for the perfect stitching program continues.

Sorry to hear that Your problem couldn't be solved as expected,

however mine was better solved with PanoramaStudio Pro than with Autopano Pro which is suggested by several people here...

...it depends - as always.

-- hide signature --

Envy is the highest form of recognition.
Stop to run, start to think.
Think twice - that doubles the fun!
Your world is as big, as Your mind.
Avoid to have only one point of view!
Uli

Yeah, I've tried Autopano several times and have had much better results with ICE. But then I tend to run very large panos in the .5-1.5 gp range and they're not always perfectly level so I occasionally have problems with stitching.

Hmmm,

a little suggestion:

Have You optimized the preferences within PanoramaStudio Pro before You tried to solve Your pano problem?

If not, You could try to change the default settings for iteration depth and minimum tile size (I don't know the exact names within the english version) - but I'm pretty sure that the program is able to make Your pano as intended...

...if nothing helps, just drop me Your files and I'll give it a try (next weekend).

-- hide signature --

Envy is the highest form of recognition.
Stop to run, start to think.
Think twice - that doubles the fun!
Your world is as big, as Your mind.
Avoid to have only one point of view!
Uli

I may look at it again, and as for sending you my files I'd have to severly reduce them in size as they total 5.6 gb. But if I can't figure it out I may take you use on your offer.

Usee
Usee Senior Member • Posts: 2,223
Re: Advice on panorama software

mike earussi wrote:

Usee wrote:

mike earussi wrote:

Usee wrote:

mike earussi wrote:

Usee wrote:



3 DP1s shots stitched with PanoramaStudio and with less artifacts than with ICE, Hugin, or PTGui

In most Panorama pictures I see on the web...

...including those which are shown in this very forum,

I almost always see strong artifacts - try to find them within my PanoramaStudio Pro example...

...within the original in my gallery - not within the resized versions shown here - which have lot's of artifacts.

-

P.S.:

A little explanation is given in the gallery for the best output out of 8 panorama programs!

-- hide signature --

Envy is the highest form of recognition.
Stop to run, start to think.
Think twice - that doubles the fun!
Your world is as big, as Your mind.
Avoid to have only one point of view!
Uli

At your suggestion I downloaded Panorama Studio Pro and tried it on a pano I was having trouble rendering correctly in ICE. I do find it relatively easier to use than some of the other "professional" pano stitching programs I've tried, thought not quite as easy to use as ICE. But unfortunately it still had trouble with my pano, having as many (though different), if not more, stitching errors than ICE. And so my search for the perfect stitching program continues.

Sorry to hear that Your problem couldn't be solved as expected,

however mine was better solved with PanoramaStudio Pro than with Autopano Pro which is suggested by several people here...

...it depends - as always.

-- hide signature --

Envy is the highest form of recognition.
Stop to run, start to think.
Think twice - that doubles the fun!
Your world is as big, as Your mind.
Avoid to have only one point of view!
Uli

Yeah, I've tried Autopano several times and have had much better results with ICE. But then I tend to run very large panos in the .5-1.5 gp range and they're not always perfectly level so I occasionally have problems with stitching.

Hmmm,

a little suggestion:

Have You optimized the preferences within PanoramaStudio Pro before You tried to solve Your pano problem?

If not, You could try to change the default settings for iteration depth and minimum tile size (I don't know the exact names within the english version) - but I'm pretty sure that the program is able to make Your pano as intended...

...if nothing helps, just drop me Your files and I'll give it a try (next weekend).

-- hide signature --

Envy is the highest form of recognition.
Stop to run, start to think.
Think twice - that doubles the fun!
Your world is as big, as Your mind.
Avoid to have only one point of view!
Uli

I may look at it again, and as for sending you my files I'd have to severly reduce them in size as they total 5.6 gb. But if I can't figure it out I may take you use on your offer.

5.6 gb...

...maybe You could send me those on DVD?

...but please try to solve it first with optimized preferences within PanoramaStudio Pro - 5.6 gb is a lot of work for a spare time activity and if the weather is fine, I rather like to go out, than to stare on a screen.

-- hide signature --

Envy is the highest form of recognition.
Stop to run, start to think.
Think twice - that doubles the fun!
Your world is as big, as Your mind.
Avoid to have only one point of view!
Uli

 Usee's gear list:Usee's gear list
Samsung NX1 Samsung NX 12-24mm F4-5.6 ED Samsung NX 45mm F1.8 2D/3D Samsung 16-50mm F3.5-5.6 power zoom Samsung 50-150mm F2.8 S
Usee
Usee Senior Member • Posts: 2,223
Re: Advice on panorama software

3dreal wrote:

For my few panoramas i had to stitch after scanning(i have rotapancams) i used panorama-factory. It has a rectinliniar feature which i have seen in altostorm rectiliniar first. now named panorama corrector.

panoguide.com is the right forum for panoramas.

hree is a panorama-non-stitched since its a scan from a b+w-contact. 6x41cm all around. I am loving the first day when i can use a more compact solution(DPxM) for travelling. Cam alone is 6kgs.

www.auschwitzpanorama.tk

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3375104

-- hide signature --

www.stereopan.org

Remember, I am not the thread starter, I didn't ask for advice, or suggestions...

...things which have something like ..."-factory" in it's name remember me to misguided movements like "national- and / or socialist- (Fabrik-) Arbeiter- Parteien" and derivates, which caused more damage on limb and life than everything else - something You seem to know according Your hint to auschwitzpanorama...

...better use PanoramaStudio Pro. - it helps (pictures) to get alive!

-

However, I think that one should rather try to look at the bright sides of life,

the past is the universe, where Zombis are born...

...show them the real life, how to breath in the air, how to stretch into the common future.

-

I wouldn't have my abilities, if I wouldn't have learned, to show them,

because You wouldn't see them - neither in the past, nor into the future, but now!

I hope that my english is good enough to fill the gap in the present time.



The Wall - a residue of history in present time... ...hopefully just a residue!

Now I have a well working ultra wide angle zoom and a higher resolving sensor...

...on my non Sigma camera, that I love because it's reliable!

...so, my need for stitching panoramas isn't that big - anymore - I enjoy to have the whole thing at once!

-- hide signature --

Envy is the highest form of recognition.
Stop to run, start to think.
Think twice - that doubles the fun!
Your world is as big, as Your mind.
Avoid to have only one point of view!
Uli

 Usee's gear list:Usee's gear list
Samsung NX1 Samsung NX 12-24mm F4-5.6 ED Samsung NX 45mm F1.8 2D/3D Samsung 16-50mm F3.5-5.6 power zoom Samsung 50-150mm F2.8 S
OP cquarksnow Contributing Member • Posts: 523
Re: Same here, Autopano Pro

Microsoft ICE

Autopano Pro planar

Autopano spherical

Here is a comparison, where I am stitching 4 pictures, using the projections that seem most effective, yet the window on the right seems at a 15° angle and I did not figure how to offset this...

Chris

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Sigma DP1 Merrill Sigma SD10 +4 more
Lin Evans
Lin Evans Forum Pro • Posts: 17,348
Re: Same here, Autopano Pro

Could you perhaps zip up the four images or even a 1024 width resample of the four images and post a link. Something is not quite right but to determine what is going wrong I would need to see the originals or at least smaller versions of the originals.

Best regards,

Lin

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learntomakeslidshows.net

 Lin Evans's gear list:Lin Evans's gear list
Olympus E-10
mike earussi Veteran Member • Posts: 7,574
Re: Advice on panorama software

Usee wrote:

mike earussi wrote:

Usee wrote:

mike earussi wrote:

Usee wrote:

mike earussi wrote:

Usee wrote:



3 DP1s shots stitched with PanoramaStudio and with less artifacts than with ICE, Hugin, or PTGui

In most Panorama pictures I see on the web...

...including those which are shown in this very forum,

I almost always see strong artifacts - try to find them within my PanoramaStudio Pro example...

...within the original in my gallery - not within the resized versions shown here - which have lot's of artifacts.

-

P.S.:

A little explanation is given in the gallery for the best output out of 8 panorama programs!

-- hide signature --

Envy is the highest form of recognition.
Stop to run, start to think.
Think twice - that doubles the fun!
Your world is as big, as Your mind.
Avoid to have only one point of view!
Uli

At your suggestion I downloaded Panorama Studio Pro and tried it on a pano I was having trouble rendering correctly in ICE. I do find it relatively easier to use than some of the other "professional" pano stitching programs I've tried, thought not quite as easy to use as ICE. But unfortunately it still had trouble with my pano, having as many (though different), if not more, stitching errors than ICE. And so my search for the perfect stitching program continues.

Sorry to hear that Your problem couldn't be solved as expected,

however mine was better solved with PanoramaStudio Pro than with Autopano Pro which is suggested by several people here...

...it depends - as always.

-- hide signature --

Envy is the highest form of recognition.
Stop to run, start to think.
Think twice - that doubles the fun!
Your world is as big, as Your mind.
Avoid to have only one point of view!
Uli

Yeah, I've tried Autopano several times and have had much better results with ICE. But then I tend to run very large panos in the .5-1.5 gp range and they're not always perfectly level so I occasionally have problems with stitching.

Hmmm,

a little suggestion:

Have You optimized the preferences within PanoramaStudio Pro before You tried to solve Your pano problem?

If not, You could try to change the default settings for iteration depth and minimum tile size (I don't know the exact names within the english version) - but I'm pretty sure that the program is able to make Your pano as intended...

...if nothing helps, just drop me Your files and I'll give it a try (next weekend).

-- hide signature --

Envy is the highest form of recognition.
Stop to run, start to think.
Think twice - that doubles the fun!
Your world is as big, as Your mind.
Avoid to have only one point of view!
Uli

I may look at it again, and as for sending you my files I'd have to severly reduce them in size as they total 5.6 gb. But if I can't figure it out I may take you use on your offer.

5.6 gb...

...maybe You could send me those on DVD?

...but please try to solve it first with optimized preferences within PanoramaStudio Pro - 5.6 gb is a lot of work for a spare time activity and if the weather is fine, I rather like to go out, than to stare on a screen.

-- hide signature --

Envy is the highest form of recognition.
Stop to run, start to think.
Think twice - that doubles the fun!
Your world is as big, as Your mind.
Avoid to have only one point of view!
Uli

That's why I said I'd first severly reduce them in size before Emailing them to you. I assume small jpeg versions would still present the same stitching problems. But I'll tinker first myself and see what I can do.

OP cquarksnow Contributing Member • Posts: 523
Re: Same here, Autopano Pro

Thanks, Lin -

This is a link to my Sugarsync Public Folder.

Link to the 4 jpegs of pano

Regards,

Chris

 cquarksnow's gear list:cquarksnow's gear list
Sigma DP1 Merrill Sigma SD10 +4 more
Lin Evans
Lin Evans Forum Pro • Posts: 17,348
Re: Same here, Autopano Pro

Hi Chris,

Thanks!  It's really easy to see what the problem is. Your image of the second window and bed was taken from a pretty obvious angle which relates almost exactly to the problem you have with the stitch. The software is just continuing the same change which you began when you snapped the shutter for that image.

The "only" way you are going to get this to look "sort of" like you want it to take that image of the bedroom and window into Photoshop or other image editing software and do a perspective "warp" on it to get it approximately as it would have been had you shot the entire thing from the same position.

I'll see if I can do that with the image and post a sample of what it would look like.

Best regards,

Lin

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learntomakeslidshows.net

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Lin Evans
Lin Evans Forum Pro • Posts: 17,348
this is about it....

There really is no way to get this to look like you want it because of the extreme amount of skew and 3D transformation required to "stretch" the third image. There is only so much you can do with software and the real problem is with the original capture.

Best regards,

Lin

-- hide signature --

learntomakeslidshows.net

 Lin Evans's gear list:Lin Evans's gear list
Olympus E-10
OP cquarksnow Contributing Member • Posts: 523
Re: Same here, Autopano Pro

Thanks so much, Lin -

I just rotated the camera on the tripod, but I don't have much experience with pano. Now I wonder if portrait would be better, so I have floor to ceiling even on the edges...

Chris

 cquarksnow's gear list:cquarksnow's gear list
Sigma DP1 Merrill Sigma SD10 +4 more
OP cquarksnow Contributing Member • Posts: 523
Re: this is about it....

Again, thanks so much, Lin -

No doubt you are really talented, the way you compensated for the skew...

What I am trying to do is extend the DP1M angle doing a pano, and I wonder if there is a better way than just rotate on the tripod axis...

Regards,

Chris

 cquarksnow's gear list:cquarksnow's gear list
Sigma DP1 Merrill Sigma SD10 +4 more
Lin Evans
Lin Evans Forum Pro • Posts: 17,348
Re: Same here, Autopano Pro

cquarksnow wrote:

Thanks so much, Lin -

I just rotated the camera on the tripod, but I don't have much experience with pano. Now I wonder if portrait would be better, so I have floor to ceiling even on the edges...

Chris

Chris, one of the problems is that when you are very close to the subject, it's absolutely necessary to either have a true pano head for your tripod, or very carefully match the axis of rotation to the exit pupil on the lens otherwise there will be significant parallax which is the real culprit here. I doubt that shooting vertical will matter too much in this case. If you were shooting a landscape with the closest object to the lens at a reasonably long distance, it wouldn't be very important, but in this case the best way to get a good panorama of a room like this is to either do it with a single 360 degree lens or do it with two fisheye captures and let the software correct. The "better" way would be two fisheye captures because you wouldn't loose nearly as much resolution. Otherwise you probably should take about twelve frames overlapping by about 30% to get the best results with what you are trying to shoot.

Best regards,

Lin

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Richie Beans Regular Member • Posts: 309
Re: Advice on panorama software

I put this 2.5 Gb image together using the PS CS5 Merge and 50 separate 16 Mb images. I tried the MS Ice software and it didn't come close to the PS results.

I look that this picture 8 times a day, amazed that PhotoShop could do that so accurately.

Edit: Details and disclaimers here: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3375976#forum-post-50763368

 Richie Beans's gear list:Richie Beans's gear list
NEX5R +1 more
Richard Carlson Regular Member • Posts: 154
Re: Advice on panorama software

AutopanoPro, PtGui, Hugin, Ice are the top contenders for stitching software not in any particular order. I use mostly Hugin and Autopanopro. . I've tried Ice and Ptgui on Windows but I no longer run Windows on any of my computers  in favor of Linux. Just my opinion. .  .. Good luck on your stitching endeavors. . . I hope to eventually get a SD1m  as I currently use both an SD14 and SD15 as my primary camera's. . .

Rich 

Usee
Usee Senior Member • Posts: 2,223
Re: Advice on panorama software

Richie Beans wrote:

I put this 2.5 Gb image together using the PS CS5 Merge and 50 separate 16 Mb images. I tried the MS Ice software and it didn't come close to the PS results.

I look that this picture 8 times a day, amazed that PhotoShop could do that so accurately.

Edit: Details and disclaimers here: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3375976#forum-post-50763368

...well, I'm still not the thread starter, but the example You provide is probably a good representation of what could be relevant for the thread starter...

...anyway, thank You for the detailed description of a timeless, pleasant picture of pure nature...

...without dull flat walls!

...but with obvious stitching flaws in the lower right corner (the unsharp rock) IMHO.

-

However, I must admit that the rest of the picture is way better stitched than the most (high praised) panoramas which are regulary shown.

The choosen perspective with lot's of fine detail in the far background and maybe too sharp edges looks a bit unnatural, but helps to draw the attention of the viewer...

...especially because of the unsharp rock in the foreground, so that I would try to optimise the rock in the foreground a bit, due to it's relevance for the whole picture.

If You can handle my somehow nitpicking and sometimes harsh critic and allow me to show You the artifacts on Your example, I'll take the time to show the flaws in a few days.

Btw.

in the (middle to right) background near the mountain tops are some uneven sharpness transitions visible - even in the 1600 pix view...

...so, no cigar yet, but nearly a cigarillo.

-- hide signature --

Envy is the highest form of recognition.
Stop to run, start to think.
Think twice - that doubles the fun!
Your world is as big, as Your mind.
Avoid to have only one point of view!
Uli

 Usee's gear list:Usee's gear list
Samsung NX1 Samsung NX 12-24mm F4-5.6 ED Samsung NX 45mm F1.8 2D/3D Samsung 16-50mm F3.5-5.6 power zoom Samsung 50-150mm F2.8 S
Roland Karlsson Forum Pro • Posts: 27,307
Re: Same here, Autopano Pro

Here is a comparison, where I am stitching 4 pictures, using the projections that seem most effective, yet the window on the right seems at a 15° angle and I did not figure how to offset this...

To avoid that you need to use rectilinear.

-- hide signature --
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Richie Beans Regular Member • Posts: 309
Re: Same here, Autopano Pro

Usee wrote:


...especially because of the unsharp rock in the foreground, so that I would try to optimise the rock in the foreground a bit, due to it's relevance for the whole picture.

If You can handle my somehow nitpicking and sometimes harsh critic and allow me to show You the artifacts on Your example, I'll take the time to show the flaws in a few days.

Btw.

in the (middle to right) background near the mountain tops are some uneven sharpness transitions visible - even in the 1600 pix view...

I've been highly entertained with the photographic community responses to my gigarez image and how it differs from the responses from the mountaineering community. It would seem that it is generally assumed that I took an escalator to the top a convenient viewpoint or was driving along a mountain road where I happened upon a clearing and saw this image, pulled over, and snapped this shot caring little for large, nearby rocks. As for the mountaineering community, none noticed the out of focus rocks and all were impressed by the lack of snow, the effort involved in getting there, and the image itself...pretty much in that order. It's been a useful lesson in contrasts!

I've since realized that gigapixel images are rarely taken in challenging situations, often taken from the tops of tall buildings, or just steps from a vehicle pull-out. Check the gigapan and X-rez sites for proof. As a matter of fact, simple photos of this mountain taken in winter are practically nonexistent on the internets, much less from this vantage.

The rock is an important element to the image because it protected me from the 40-50mph wind and booming gusts; moving out of it's shelter made shooting with a 250mm telephoto at f/11 impossible, even with large rocks holding down the tripod. The focusing artifacts are not, in fact, artifacts and I'm glad that Usee saw them. They are where the wind shook the camera enough to render that particular image just slightly out-of-focus. No matter how hard I tried, I could not correct those frames for motion-blur in PS. The "unnatural" sharpness that USee cites, however, is likely an artifact of seeing the image on a particular monitor at a particular size. At 100%, the original 2.5 Gb image looks quite natural!

Nevertheless, PS did an outstanding job in stitching these images together despite the challenges I threw at it. I even tried the different merge options to manually correct for the shooting morphology and in the end, letting the software run in Auto mode yielded the best results.

Edit: I will now take your Cigarillo, retreat behind my rock, and kill a new Bic lighter trying to light it!

 Richie Beans's gear list:Richie Beans's gear list
NEX5R +1 more
Usee
Usee Senior Member • Posts: 2,223
I like PanoramaStudio Pro the most...

Richie Beans wrote:

Usee wrote:


...especially because of the unsharp rock in the foreground, so that I would try to optimise the rock in the foreground a bit, due to it's relevance for the whole picture.

If You can handle my somehow nitpicking and sometimes harsh critic and allow me to show You the artifacts on Your example, I'll take the time to show the flaws in a few days.

Btw.

in the (middle to right) background near the mountain tops are some uneven sharpness transitions visible - even in the 1600 pix view...

I've since realized that gigapixel images are rarely taken in challenging situations, often taken from the tops of tall buildings, or just steps from a vehicle pull-out.

...maybe because in challanging situations, a single (wideangle) shot with less megapixel is delivering a better over all quality?

The rock is an important element to the image because it protected me from the 40-50mph wind and booming gusts; moving out of it's shelter made shooting with a 250mm telephoto at f/11 impossible, even with large rocks holding down the tripod. The focusing artifacts are not, in fact, artifacts and I'm glad that Usee saw them.

...at this distance at F11 I would guess, that those artifacts are not focusing artifacts, but motion blur due to the strong wind...

...and You could have made them less obvious in post processing than You did...

...however, they are artifacts...

...which can also be seen in the lower left, where unsharp areas and sharp areas are side by side in something like a alternating pattern...

...and the sky in the upper left (on the 13 MP sized sample) is showing some stitching errors, and maybe some residues of tree branches, which You could easily remove, but You didn't for some reason.

The "unnatural" sharpness that USee cites, however, is likely an artifact of seeing the image on a particular monitor at a particular size. At 100%, the original 2.5 Gb image looks quite natural!

That is (partly) quite possible, but I can only judge the samples You provide and they show uneven sharpness in regions, where they shouldn't be and I have seen this issue in other panorama, where there obviously was no (strong) wind blowing, which could be seen on the leaves of trees in the foreground.

Nevertheless, PS did an outstanding job in stitching these images together despite the challenges I threw at it. I even tried the different merge options to manually correct for the shooting morphology and in the end, letting the software run in Auto mode yielded the best results.

Nope, You did that job and maybe some other software could have done it better -

however, I would have tried to make that "shot" with a single shot, using either a 15 MP Foveon, or a 20 MP+ Bayer pattern camera...

...and I am sure, that even the 15MP sized single shot would have given a better overall quality than Your 13MP sample of a GB panorama, with obvious flaws in it - despite the hard work You have invested and despite the expensive software You have used...

...never the less, those are the challanges one can learn from - and a big tree (with or without camera) who never forced a storm, will break more easy, when the wind blows, than a tree, who is used to harsh conditions from the beginning.

Edit: I will now take your Cigarillo, retreat behind my rock, and kill a new Bic lighter trying to light it!

...well, I like Your effort and our little conversation, so I pass a long, but thin cigar to You, that You stay a bit longer.

a photo taken from a friend of mine...

-- hide signature --

Envy is the highest form of recognition.
Stop to run, start to think.
Think twice - that doubles the fun!
Your world is as big, as Your mind.
Avoid to have only one point of view!
Uli

 Usee's gear list:Usee's gear list
Samsung NX1 Samsung NX 12-24mm F4-5.6 ED Samsung NX 45mm F1.8 2D/3D Samsung 16-50mm F3.5-5.6 power zoom Samsung 50-150mm F2.8 S
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