What's the line on an X Pro 2 in 2013

Started Jan 28, 2013 | Discussions
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(unknown member) Forum Pro • Posts: 13,144
What's the line on an X Pro 2 in 2013

Is there strong suspecion that the X Pro 1 will get an upgrade this year or is the belief that 2014 is when it is more likely?

Is Fujifilm done with new camera announcements for the year?

I had so much fun using the optical viewfinder this past week while in Hong Kong that I dont think I can live with the X-E1.  Also, the lag in that viewfinder, even in good light is quite noticeable when panning.

Looks like an X Pro 2 would be the one for me, but I can't recall if folks think this is the year we will see it.

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Zardoz
Zardoz Senior Member • Posts: 1,249
Re: What's the line on an X Pro 2 in 2013

Who knows? There is certainly no concrete information available.  If you wait for the next best thing, you'll be waiting forever.  If you need a camera now, waiting a year isn't an option.  Evaluate what your needs are now, buy for now, shoot for now.  If something comes along that's better, reevaluate your needs once the reviews are out, the dust has settled, and the early adopters have found all the gotchas.

(unknown member) OP Forum Pro • Posts: 13,144
Re: What's the line on an X Pro 2 in 2013
2

Zardoz wrote:

Who knows? There is certainly no concrete information available. If you wait for the next best thing, you'll be waiting forever.

I am waiting for the first best thing, not the next.  I have tried and tested both the X Pro 1 and X E1 and find them lacking.  I am wondering if 2013 might bring an X Pro 2 to market.

If you need a camera now, waiting a year isn't an option.

I have 9 cameras.  I dont need anything.  I just want that 35mm lens along with the 14mm wide angle.  I can easily live without them, but I want them nonetheless.

Evaluate what your needs are now, buy for now, shoot for now. If something comes along that's better, reevaluate your needs once the reviews are out, the dust has settled, and the early adopters have found all the gotchas.

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Zardoz
Zardoz Senior Member • Posts: 1,249
Re: What's the line on an X Pro 2 in 2013

Sounds like you can afford to wait, then.  I'm interested to see what happens with the second generation X-Trans cameras too, the X100s is giving us a nice early taste.  The first generation has strengths and weaknesses, but the weaknesses are too great in my opinion.  I mostly enjoy shooting with the X-Pro1, but the frustrations are numerous.  If Fuji smooth a good number of those frustrations over in version 2, it'll be a killer little system to supplement my large Nikon gear.

(unknown member) OP Forum Pro • Posts: 13,144
Re: What's the line on an X Pro 2 in 2013

Zardoz wrote:

Sounds like you can afford to wait, then. I'm interested to see what happens with the second generation X-Trans cameras too, the X100s is giving us a nice early taste. The first generation has strengths and weaknesses, but the weaknesses are too great in my opinion. I mostly enjoy shooting with the X-Pro1, but the frustrations are numerous. If Fuji smooth a good number of those frustrations over in version 2, it'll be a killer little system to supplement my large Nikon gear.

Yes, I can afford to wait, but would rather not.  I'm in an unusual position where I can afford any camera gear that I want and would like to use this ability, rather than wait.  The X100S is somewhat tempting, but I am quite happy with my X100 so would really not benefit much with the X100S.  There are a few tiny improvements around the fringes but really not enough to justify buying a new camera.  My X100 is doing quite well.

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LaFonte Senior Member • Posts: 2,744
Re: What's the line on an X Pro 2 in 2013

rattymouse wrote:

Zardoz wrote:

Who knows? There is certainly no concrete information available. If you wait for the next best thing, you'll be waiting forever.

I am waiting for the first best thing, not the next. I have tried and tested both the X Pro 1 and X E1 and find them lacking. I am wondering if 2013 might bring an X Pro 2 to market.

If you need a camera now, waiting a year isn't an option.

I have 9 cameras. I dont need anything. I just want that 35mm lens along with the 14mm wide angle. I can easily live without them, but I want them nonetheless.

Evaluate what your needs are now, buy for now, shoot for now. If something comes along that's better, reevaluate your needs once the reviews are out, the dust has settled, and the early adopters have found all the gotchas.

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It is likely they will do something in the second half of the year - mostly because of the on-chip phase focus. The x100s may be seriously better in this regard than Xpro1 while sporting similar chip and being cheaper. they will want to refresh the xpro1 line for sure.

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(unknown member) OP Forum Pro • Posts: 13,144
Re: What's the line on an X Pro 2 in 2013

LaFonte wrote:

f the year - mostly because of the on-chip phase focus. The x100s may be seriously better in this regard than Xpro1 while sporting similar chip and being cheaper. they will want to refresh the xpro1 line for sure.

That's the best that I can hope for and I do hope that you are right.

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LaFonte Senior Member • Posts: 2,744
Re: What's the line on an X Pro 2 in 2013

rattymouse wrote:

LaFonte wrote:

f the year - mostly because of the on-chip phase focus. The x100s may be seriously better in this regard than Xpro1 while sporting similar chip and being cheaper. they will want to refresh the xpro1 line for sure.

That's the best that I can hope for and I do hope that you are right.

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I am very positive about this.

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ArtByLukeBennett
ArtByLukeBennett Forum Member • Posts: 78
Re: What's the line on an X Pro 2 in 2013

I'm also waiting eagerly for any X-Pro2 news. I know this is possibly a fool's game, but I'd be quite annoyed if I bought an X-Pro1 or XE-1 now only to have a more refined version appear within the year.

It also helps that I can't really afford to buy any serious new camera right now, so the whole thing is a bit of a moot point. Sigh. To be a millionaire!...

If the X-Pro2 incorporates all of the X100s improvements and possibly a more up to date sensor then I'll be extremely happy to snap one up. In the meantime I'll grudgingly use my old Canon Powershot G3

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Austin101 Senior Member • Posts: 1,410
Re: What's the line on an X Pro 2 in 2013
4

rattymouse wrote:

Is there strong suspecion that the X Pro 1 will get an upgrade this year or is the belief that 2014 is when it is more likely?

Is Fujifilm done with new camera announcements for the year?

I had so much fun using the optical viewfinder this past week while in Hong Kong that I dont think I can live with the X-E1. Also, the lag in that viewfinder, even in good light is quite noticeable when panning.

Looks like an X Pro 2 would be the one for me, but I can't recall if folks think this is the year we will see it.

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I think its time for you to s**t or get off the potty, even if Fuji released an X-Pro2 with the features you complain about it still won't be perfect and by the time its released Sony will have a full frame compact system camera on the market.

There's nothing wrong with the X-Pro1 or X-E1, they both do what they were built by Fuji to do

I can shoot the Fuji in any condition and get great results, your failure with the X-E1/X-Pro1 isn't down to the camera it's down to you, whether that's down to your abilities or the wrong camera for the job at hand.

BrianBrianBrian Junior Member • Posts: 40
Re: What's the line on an X Pro 2 in 2013

Guessing:

X-Pro2 will be announced late summer alongside the remaining lenses on the roadmap, and available by Christmas. It will likely be significantly over 24MP, because the NEX-7 (not a "pro" camera) is already 24MP, and because it needs to compensate better for the lack of an AA filter.

There will be a new viewfinder with an EVF of higher resolution than the X-E1. The viewfinder will be 25% or so larger than the X-Pro1 (enough to avoid clipping the 14mm lense) and new viewfinder optics will further magnify the viewfinder's perceived size. The viewfinder will also have a removable eyecup.

EVF lag and autofocus performance (speed and accuracy) will be notably improved thanks to much faster processors. Split level focusing will work much better than the X100s.

Finally, we will have proper control of exposure settings during video recording. The emphasis on video will be on parity regarding controls (ISO, shutter speed, aperture, focus) during video recording for people that want to control exposure and focus themselves. The automatic video features won't be competitive with the automatic features of other cameras. The video encoding will also be improved. 1080p24/50/60 will be the best you get out of the camera (no 4K). There will be a center crop video recording option like Panasonic cameras have.

The sensor will still be APS-C, because (a) all their lenses' focal lengths are designed for APS-C, (b) Fujifilm will not want to risk investing in larger-than-APS-C unless/until X-Pro2 is successful, and (c) though the processors will be much faster than the X-Pro1, they won't be fast enough to be able to handle the improved video, AF, and EVF performance at any larger size.

Of course, all the features from the X100s will be available, as well as all the commonly-requested enhancements that weren't in the x100s.

The body and as-yet-unreleased lenses will be weather sealed to some ambiguous degree.''

(End guessing.)

(unknown member) OP Forum Pro • Posts: 13,144
Re: What's the line on an X Pro 2 in 2013
3

Austin101 wrote:

rattymouse wrote:

Is there strong suspecion that the X Pro 1 will get an upgrade this year or is the belief that 2014 is when it is more likely?

Is Fujifilm done with new camera announcements for the year?

I had so much fun using the optical viewfinder this past week while in Hong Kong that I dont think I can live with the X-E1. Also, the lag in that viewfinder, even in good light is quite noticeable when panning.

Looks like an X Pro 2 would be the one for me, but I can't recall if folks think this is the year we will see it.

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I think its time for you to s**t or get off the potty, even if Fuji released an X-Pro2 with the features you complain about it

What features might those be?

still won't be perfect and by the time its released Sony will have a full frame compact system camera on the market.

It is of no concern to me what Sony is doing.

There's nothing wrong with the X-Pro1 or X-E1, they both do what they were built by Fuji to do

That is your opinion and I categorically disagree with it.

I can shoot the Fuji in any condition and get great results

OK.

, your failure with the X-E1/X-Pro1 isn't down to the camera it's down to you, whether that's down to your abilities or the wrong camera for the job at hand.

That is your opinion and I reject it completely.

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(unknown member) Regular Member • Posts: 362
Re: What's the line on an X Pro 2 in 2013
1

If their next line of X cameras has decent AF (at least in line with an original 5D) I'd def come back. I felt the image quality and obviously portability was awesome, but I, like many other, couldn't get over the AF. I'd probably be kicking myself for selling this 35mm, its a beast of a lens and I really love the output from the X-trans sensor. I was never affected by all the cries over RAW processing THis is the only camera I'd happily shoot jpeg on with no regrets too. Its fantastic

I can actually agree with Ratty on this one and do feel like he is being unnecessarily targeted in this thread. Wow, didn't ever think I'd say that.

(unknown member) OP Forum Pro • Posts: 13,144
Re: What's the line on an X Pro 2 in 2013

newone757 wrote:

If their next line of X cameras has decent AF (at least in line with an original 5D) I'd def come back. I felt the image quality and obviously portability was awesome, but I, like many other, couldn't get over the AF. I'd probably be kicking myself for selling this 35mm, its a beast of a lens and I really love the output from the X-trans sensor. I was never affected by all the cries over RAW processing THis is the only camera I'd happily shoot jpeg on with no regrets too. Its fantastic

I can actually agree with Ratty on this one and do feel like he is being unnecessarily targeted in this thread. Wow, didn't ever think I'd say that.

Thank you very much.  It is appreciated by me.

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Austin101 Senior Member • Posts: 1,410
Re: What's the line on an X Pro 2 in 2013

rattymouse wrote:


, your failure with the X-E1/X-Pro1 isn't down to the camera it's down to you, whether that's down to your abilities or the wrong camera for the job at hand.

That is your opinion and I reject it completely.

That's your right and I reject it completely

Steve Pope
Steve Pope Regular Member • Posts: 209
Fuji product differentiation is now uncomfortably out of sync
1

rattymouse wrote:

newone757 wrote:

I can actually agree with Ratty on this one and do feel like he is being unnecessarily targeted in this thread. Wow, didn't ever think I'd say that.

Thank you very much. It is appreciated by me.

Yes, and I agree with you both. There's no point being in denial about what an awkward point in the product cycle this currently is. The X100S (arguably even its predecessor) is now 'too good' on price and spec relative to the top of the range X bodies. It's surely unavoidable that sales will be hit until all the enhancements in the X100S, and then some, are implemented in the flagship model?

I'm excited by the general direction of travel indicated by the large sensor X-series, but it will take the next iteration - greater processing power, improved autofocus, snappier EVF, more lenses - to overcome my hesitancy. I'd welcome Fuji accelerating the roll-out of the next models, but as soon as the grapevine gets early wind of it - and because the likely improvements may be far more significant than your typical marginal upgrade - the existing stock will be selling into a difficult headwind.

Why would you buy right at this particular moment, when there seems every possibility of quite dramatic improvements to the main in-camera bugbears being iterated by the end of the year?

hellocrowley Senior Member • Posts: 1,275
Re: What's the line on an X Pro 2 in 2013

BrianBrianBrian wrote:

Guessing:

X-Pro2 will be announced late summer alongside the remaining lenses on the roadmap, and available by Christmas. It will likely be significantly over 24MP, because the NEX-7 (not a "pro" camera) is already 24MP, and because it needs to compensate better for the lack of an AA filter.

I really hope it's not based on the Nex7 sensor, which is notoriously bad with M mount lenses. Fuji needs to improve their performance with wide angle lenses by reducing the sensor glass thickness. In any case, they will have to wait for Sony to come out with a new PDAF sensor (see Nex6 -X100s) or use the same X100s sensor. Not anytime soon.

There will be a new viewfinder with an EVF of higher resolution than the X-E1. The viewfinder will be 25% or so larger than the X-Pro1 (enough to avoid clipping the 14mm lense) and new viewfinder optics will further magnify the viewfinder's perceived size. The viewfinder will also have a removable eyecup.

Unlikely. Larger OVF means the lenses block even more of it, unless they make the body much wider. Except the 27 pancake, lenses will only get bigger from here. Also higher res EVF will depend on Sony coming out with one

EVF lag and autofocus performance (speed and accuracy) will be notably improved thanks to much faster processors. Split level focusing will work much better than the X100s.

Finally, we will have proper control of exposure settings during video recording. The emphasis on video will be on parity regarding controls (ISO, shutter speed, aperture, focus) during video recording for people that want to control exposure and focus themselves. The automatic video features won't be competitive with the automatic features of other cameras. The video encoding will also be improved. 1080p24/50/60 will be the best you get out of the camera (no 4K). There will be a center crop video recording option like Panasonic cameras have.

X100s shows no commitment to  serious video so I doubt it. But I hope you're right.

The sensor will still be APS-C, because (a) all their lenses' focal lengths are designed for APS-C, (b) Fujifilm will not want to risk investing in larger-than-APS-C unless/until X-Pro2 is successful, and (c) though the processors will be much faster than the X-Pro1, they won't be fast enough to be able to handle the improved video, AF, and EVF performance at any larger size.

A,B = agreed. C = no, processing speed depends on MP.

Of course, all the features from the X100s will be available, as well as all the commonly-requested enhancements that weren't in the x100s.

The body and as-yet-unreleased lenses will be weather sealed to some ambiguous degree.''

I'm gonna guess no.

(End guessing.)

DrewLavyne Regular Member • Posts: 100
Re: What's the line on an X Pro 2 in 2013

I would be seriously hard pressed to believe that Fuji will come out with an X-Pro2 this year. The idea is to get all of us X-Pro1 users to buy another camera in the X100s...only to replace our X-Pro1 bodies next year when we've enjoyed the improvements of the X100s.

As much as I'm tempted to add and X100s to my bag (I came to X-Pro1 from an original X100) I think it makes more sense to simply wait it out and let Fuji come out guns blazing with the X-Pro2 and what is sure to be even more improvement over the X100s. There is no doubt in my mind that they'll pull out something special for their top of the line, flagship Pro camera. It will be worth the wait.

As a side note, and not to be a downer or anything, I really think all of the hype about the autofocus in the X100s needs to be taken with a grain of salt. The NEX cameras have hybrid autofocus and from what i've read performance isn't all that much different from their CDAF predecessors. It looks to me like the processor is the big improvement here: increasing the speed at which the camera focuses and shortening the length of time required between shots. That's what I'd be most excited about.

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Zardoz
Zardoz Senior Member • Posts: 1,249
Re: What's the line on an X Pro 2 in 2013

hellocrowley wrote:

I really hope it's not based on the Nex7 sensor, which is notoriously bad with M mount lenses. Fuji needs to improve their performance with wide angle lenses by reducing the sensor glass thickness. In any case, they will have to wait for Sony to come out with a new PDAF sensor (see Nex6 -X100s) or use the same X100s sensor. Not anytime soon.

That's down to the microlens design.  It's completely possible to use the same base sensor with different microlenses (and a different CFA, as we've already seen).  Having said that, despite Fuji releasing an official M mount adapter, the current X-Trans sensors don't have microlenses that handle UWA M mount lenses well either, and it suffers from the same problems as the NEX-7.

Zardoz
Zardoz Senior Member • Posts: 1,249
Re: What's the line on an X Pro 2 in 2013

If you have an X-Pro1 or X-E1, I don't see why you should be expected to buy an X100s... unless Fuji delay the 23mm f/1.4 to bolster X100s sales, which I hope they don't... but we shall see.

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