DP3M Poll: Who's interested?

Started Jan 26, 2013 | Discussions
Johan Borg Senior Member • Posts: 2,511
Re: DP3M Poll: Who's interested?

I have an SD15 with a 50mm permanently attached, so yes, I see the point of this camera. Will that mentioned SD15 keep me from adding a DP3M to my DP2M? Maybe, maybe not...

KyleSlamchez Regular Member • Posts: 221
Re: DP3M Poll: Who's interested?

Harold66 wrote:

Do you honestly think that one can shootmodels with a LCD only model?

Could you expound upon this?

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mike earussi Veteran Member • Posts: 7,280
Re: DP3M Poll: Who's interested?

KyleSlamchez wrote:

Harold66 wrote:

Do you honestly think that one can shootmodels with a LCD only model?

Could you expound upon this?

Maybe I can add my 2 cents worth to this. LCDs are fine if you have good close up vision. But for those of us who are older and require reading glasses in order to use one, the constant putting on and taking off of reading glasses to compose really slows our reaction time (as well as spoils our fun). But with an EVF with a built-in diopter it's just as easy, fast and fun to use as a regular dslr. So, yes, I'm also one of those who would really appreciate a DP camera with a EVF.

maple Veteran Member • Posts: 3,191
Re: DP3M Poll: Who's interested?

NO. Since I have an SD1M already, a 50/2.8 sounds more reasonable.

A DP1M? Perhaps. Hesitating between that and the 816. Lately leaning more towards DP1M, now that I know how good DP2M is by first hand experience.

Now if only it were a DP modular system, i.e., a body with a number of lens+sensor modules, I'll be in it for all. But it has to be a premium body featuring a good built-in EVF and flash, etc. It would be such a waste of a good sensor if this would not happen. Maybe Sigma is not confident enough how long their sensor will remain competitive, and whether their future sensor will maintain the "upper hand".

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Maple

Oliver_B Contributing Member • Posts: 847
Re: DP3M Poll: Who's interested?

So, yes, I'm also one of those who would really appreciate a DP camera with a EVF.

I would also love to see that. A true viewfinder is always more intimate, allows for quicker framing and better judgement of focus. I am quite sure though that you can shoot models without one

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SigmaChrome Veteran Member • Posts: 9,486
Re: DP3M Poll: Who's interested?

Me too. The only other way would be to use one of those Hoodman things, as long as it has a dioptre correction mechanism. A good grip would help too.

mike earussi wrote:

Maybe I can add my 2 cents worth to this. LCDs are fine if you have good close up vision. But for those of us who are older and require reading glasses in order to use one, the constant putting on and taking off of reading glasses to compose really slows our reaction time (as well as spoils our fun). But with an EVF with a built-in diopter it's just as easy, fast and fun to use as a regular dslr. So, yes, I'm also one of those who would really appreciate a DP camera with a EVF.

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Harold66
Harold66 Veteran Member • Posts: 6,956
Re: DP3M Poll: Who's interested?

KyleSlamchez wrote:

Harold66 wrote:

Do you honestly think that one can shootmodels with a LCD only model?

Could you expound upon this?

Of course I can

The point is all the DPM's would benefit from an EVF  . First of all when you are shooting outside in sunny situations , lcd can be very difficult to see your subject, which means you will miss a lot if shots because if that. It seems to me that the recent OLED fare better than the LCD  on that score but the SIGMA DPM's have a LCD ...and not a very good one at that. The LCD on my 3 year old GXR. Is waaayyy better

if you shoot with the do1m , because the field is wider , you have a better chance to include your subject and  you can use an external Ovf , hoping that you can guess on which point the camera is going to focus

but on the Dp3 , when shooting a portrait a smaller move of the camera is going to be more detrimental to your composition. There are on the market one or two 75mm external OVF. But with the parallax it is not a great way to work because most images are going to have the main subject at a shorter distance than on a dp1m

let s not firget that the dpm's also do not have IS. Which is going to amplify lack of sharpness due to shake amplified by holding the camera the way you have when you need to look at the LCD

i am sure a fraction of  DP1 or DP2 users would buy a dp3 but truth is SIGMA  misses a great opportunity to widen its customer base by providing a compact carry- everywhere camera specially for portaits

Think about it : there are several serious fixed lens camera on the market but  one with a small tele lens for portaits ?

talk about missed opportunities

Harold

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ageha
ageha Contributing Member • Posts: 651
Nope, thanks.

Tom Schum wrote:

I'm just wondering how many on this forum are interested in purchasing a DP3M.

If the lens on the DP3M is as good as the lens on the DP2M, and the reviews and infant mortality issues are all positive, I'm definitely interested in this one.

I say this even though my experience with my SD1 has been less than ideal.

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Tom Schum

Awesome, a 75mm equivalent lens. I'm not interested. If it's intended for portrait please give me at least a 90mm lens.

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Daisaku Watanabe Forum Member • Posts: 63
Re: Maybe
1

Roland Karlsson wrote:

I am currently deciding what to do

  • Buy an SD1M with one good lens. Then I get an IR camera for free.
  • Buy a DP2M and a close up lens
  • Buy a DP3M, mainly due to its better close up capability
  • Buy no Sigma camera at all

Today SIGMA Japan announced that DP3M release date is 22nd February, and they will launch a "CASH BACK Campaign" for the existing SIGMA camera users.

At the moment, it's only applicable in Japan, but who can say that campaign won't go worldwide?

Roland Karlsson Forum Pro • Posts: 26,396
Re: Nope, thanks.

ageha wrote:

Awesome, a 75mm equivalent lens. I'm not interested. If it's intended for portrait please give me at least a 90mm lens.

It is quite sharp. You can crop.

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whipsnap New Member • Posts: 6
Re: DP3M Poll: Who's interested?

I'm interested but I truly don't need it. I wish this series had been an ILC because I don't want to carry three (admittedly compact) bodies around. If I ditch my D-SLR then I'll definitely buy one, esepecially if the price dips below US$900 like the other models.

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Harold66
Harold66 Veteran Member • Posts: 6,956
Re: DP3M Poll: Who's interested?

Roland Karlsson wrote:

Harold66 wrote:

Do you honestly think that one can shootmodels with a LCD only model.

Hmmmm .. explain to me why not.

well i guess you do not have too much experience shooting moving subjects in the sun

ALSO. When you shoot people on the street for instance with a 40mm a slight mive may not change the composition too much but with the narrower field of vie of a 75mm focal length a LCD. Only makes very little sense for the customer base of this camera

the dp3m would make waaaayyyy more sense if there was an optional EVF. For it

There is a video output, NTSC/PAL. Not high resolution, but maybe useful.

-

you are joking right .

what is the use of a poor video output for still images ?

not to mention that buying a dp for video would be like buying a mini cooperto drive through the mountains

Harold

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john10001 Contributing Member • Posts: 645
Re: Nope, thanks.

ageha wrote:

Tom Schum wrote:

I'm just wondering how many on this forum are interested in purchasing a DP3M.

If the lens on the DP3M is as good as the lens on the DP2M, and the reviews and infant mortality issues are all positive, I'm definitely interested in this one.

I say this even though my experience with my SD1 has been less than ideal.

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Tom Schum

Awesome, a 75mm equivalent lens. I'm not interested. If it's intended for portrait please give me at least a 90mm lens.

I'm a bit of a layman when it comes to Sigma so not totally understanding it. Is this new DP3M a 50mm or 75mm lens in 35mm terms?

And if you guys could only choose one camera with one lens, what would it be? Which would you use more and get more use from? 28mm, 41mm, 50mm, 75mm?

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Antone
Antone Senior Member • Posts: 1,175
Re: Nope, thanks.

john10001 wrote:

I'm a bit of a layman when it comes to Sigma so not totally understanding it. Is this new DP3M a 50mm or 75mm lens in 35mm terms?

It is a 50mm lens and has an angle of view that is equivalent to a 75mm lens on a 35mm camera.

And if you guys could only choose one camera with one lens, what would it be? Which would you use more and get more use from? 28mm, 41mm, 50mm, 75mm?

I have the DP1 Merrill (28mm AOV) and plan to get the DP3 Merrill but not the DP2 Merrill.

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Tony-S

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SigmaChrome Veteran Member • Posts: 9,486
Re: Maybe

Roland Karlsson wrote:

I am currently deciding what to do

  • Buy an SD1M with one good lens. Then I get an IR camera for free.
  • Buy a DP2M and a close up lens
  • Buy a DP3M, mainly due to its better close up capability
  • Buy no Sigma camera at all

Based on your previous form, Roland, you'll choose the last option. But, go ahead and surprise us all!

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Roland Karlsson Forum Pro • Posts: 26,396
Re: Stripes

SigmaChrome wrote:

Roland Karlsson wrote:

I am currently deciding what to do

  • Buy an SD1M with one good lens. Then I get an IR camera for free.
  • Buy a DP2M and a close up lens
  • Buy a DP3M, mainly due to its better close up capability
  • Buy no Sigma camera at all

Based on your previous form, Roland, you'll choose the last option. But, go ahead and surprise us all!

You are probably right

But - I can reveal that there is just one little tiny thing right now that is the main reason why I hesitate. Its the stripes. I have looked at a RAW file of an image with stripes, and the stripes in the "blue" layer are VERY strong. There is no stripes in any other layer. So - some elaborate stripe removal algorithm is needed, which I assume the newer SPP does. Thats strange, and not so fun.

This issue needs investigation.

And if my observation is true, and I cannot device any reliable fix, then I doubt I will buy any Merrill camera.

The biggest question is of course if this stripes problem varies between cameras. Maybe sensors with such strong stripes are broken, and should be returned.

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MOD Kendall Helmstetter Gelner Forum Pro • Posts: 19,906
Yes I know I can shoot models with an LCD...

Harold66 wrote:

Kendall Helmstetter Gelner wrote:

I prefer to shoot landscapes with longer lenses anyway, so the longest lens I can get is better for me.

I actually also think it will be a great lens for shooting models, even if it is just f/2.8 and not a wider aperture... and it would eliminate the need to carry a macro lens on the SD-1 also.

Do you honestly think that one can shootmodels with a LCD only model.

the dp3m would make waaaayyyy more sense if there was an optional EVF.

I know I can shoot models with an LCD, I already use the DP-2M alongside the SD-1 for shooting models:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kigiphoto/8003538481/in/set-72157631575045490

As many have seen that image, here's something more recent - a runway show shot ONLY with a DP-2M using the LCD:

(Full set)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kigiphoto/sets/72157632734098594/

Examples:

I read through the followup comments and have a few points to make along these lines:

1) It's not hard to tell at all how you are framing on an LCD.  Even in sunlight the DP-M cameras have decently bright screens that you can see pretty well.  That has not ever been even close to an issue for me and I am very picky about exact framing.

2) You have so much resolution that even if you can't see well, just shoot a wider model camera and crop a bit (some of those runway shops were cropped).

3) Shutter speeds even with the longer DP-3M should not be much of an issue.  Lots of people shooting models use flash, but even without a flash (I personally try not to use flash unless totally necessary) outdoors you still can get good shutter speeds, and runway shows (like this one) usually have really bright lights - falling back to ISO 400 or 800 (as I did for the runway show) yields shutter speeds that are quite acceptable for handholding (like that shot which was 1/500).

4) If you really need a bit more stability there have been a few posts now about the devices that clamp on the rear LCD and let you use that as a viewfinder.  That to me is even better than the very tiny EVF's that other cameras have (yes I have seen and used them myself).  I do plan to get one to see if it really adds some stability, but I can do OK without.  They also add enough bulk that the model doesn't wonder what the hell you are doing shooting with such a small camera (had a few models ask why I was also shooting with the tiny DP-2M).

5) Also I have lost OVF's before.  You can't leave them on the camera all the time because they get in the way.  An external EVF is so small, I can see them getting lost or destroyed all too easily.

EVF's are cool, I think Sony has finally delivered one that is usable unlike all previous EVF's I have ever tried.  But they also add a LOT of expense to the system, and as we see they can be lived without quite well.  I think Live View is a really important feature to add to whatever DSLR comes along from Sigma next, but EVF is a luxury the DP-M line can do without for a long time.

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MOD Kendall Helmstetter Gelner Forum Pro • Posts: 19,906
Re: DP3M Poll: Who's interested?

Harold66 wrote:

well i guess you do not have too much experience shooting moving subjects in the sun

DP-2M (the framing BTW is exactly as I intended when planning the shot):

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kigiphoto/8420785751/in/set-72157632623889387

ALSO. When you shoot people on the street for instance with a 40mm a slight mive may not change the composition too much but with the narrower field of vie of a 75mm focal length a LCD. Only makes very little sense for the customer base of this camera

Even just from limited playing with the DP-3M at the Sigma booth I do not think that is so.

the dp3m would make waaaayyyy more sense if there was an optional EVF. For it

There is a video output, NTSC/PAL. Not high resolution, but maybe useful.

-

you are joking right .

what is the use of a poor video output for still images ?

To FRAME before you shoot. He's talking about hooking the video feed to some external display for easier framing. Not to use the video feed to capture!

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MOD Kendall Helmstetter Gelner Forum Pro • Posts: 19,906
2 vs 1.2

villebon wrote:

So, if I wanted all three focal lengths (19mm, 30mm and 50mm) I'd need to buy three camera bodies. Way to go Sigma, it ranks way up there with your $10,000 SD1 camera.

On the other hand buying a body + really, really good lenses would cost you more than those three cameras combined.

And you probably would not have as good wide performance.

And you would not have multiple spare bodies.

And you would have to take time to change lenses while I'm just switching cameras.

And you have to clean your sensor.

And you don't have as compact a camera for any one use.

So to answer your question, a definite no at this time. Sorry.

No need to be sorry, no camera can appeal to everyone.  But there are many real advantages to the approach Sigma is taking.

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MOD Kendall Helmstetter Gelner Forum Pro • Posts: 19,906
The Assistant

whipsnap wrote:

I'm interested but I truly don't need it. I wish this series had been an ILC because I don't want to carry three (admittedly compact) bodies around. If I ditch my D-SLR then I'll definitely buy one, esepecially if the price dips below US$900 like the other models.

I would buy one of them simply to use alongside a DSLR.  They make GREAT companion cameras that can replace carrying a prime, and then you have a second body PLUS a great camera to carry around when the DSLR is too bulky.

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