Simple question:

Started Jan 12, 2013 | Discussions
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Richard Franiec
Richard Franiec Senior Member • Posts: 2,521
Simple question:

Would you buy Foveon sensor implemented into Canon 5DMkIII (or if you like Nikon D800) and if not, why?

Cheers,

Richard

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Laurence Matson
Laurence Matson Forum Pro • Posts: 11,660
Re: Simple question:

Nikon, maybe. Canon, no.

Nikon, of the Bayer users, wrecks the image least; Canon, most since the days of the "creamy smooth image" that gave birth to the term "Nutella."

In fact, Nikon . . .

A story for another day.

Richard Franiec wrote:

Would you buy Foveon sensor implemented into Canon 5DMkIII (or if you like Nikon D800) and if not, why?

Cheers,

Richard

-- hide signature --

Laurence
laurence at appledore-farm dot com
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MrBlissfly
MrBlissfly Regular Member • Posts: 279
Re: Simple question:

For me no.

The are are far to bulky for me, Fuji X form factor absolutely

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Formerly posting as 'Blissfly'

Richard Franiec
Richard Franiec OP Senior Member • Posts: 2,521
Re: Simple question:

MrBlissfly wrote:

For me no.

The are are far to bulky for me, Fuji X form factor absolutely

Try to think along the SD1 lines

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Formerly posting as 'Blissfly'

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Richard Franiec
Richard Franiec OP Senior Member • Posts: 2,521
Re: Simple question:

Laurence Matson wrote:

Nikon, maybe. Canon, no.

Nikon, of the Bayer users, wrecks the image least; Canon, most since the days of the "creamy smooth image" that gave birth to the term "Nutella."

Foveon sensor implemented to its full potential, that is.

In fact, Nikon . . .

A story for another day.

Richard Franiec wrote:

Would you buy Foveon sensor implemented into Canon 5DMkIII (or if you like Nikon D800) and if not, why?

Cheers,

Richard

-- hide signature --

Laurence
laurence at appledore-farm dot com
Sometimes, life is going to hit you with a brick. Don't lose faith.
Steve Jobs
http://www.pbase.com/lmatson
http://www.pbase.com/sigmadslr
http://www.howardmyerslaw.com

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Laurence Matson
Laurence Matson Forum Pro • Posts: 11,660
Re: Simple question:
1

Richard Franiec wrote:

Laurence Matson wrote:

Nikon, maybe. Canon, no.

Nikon, of the Bayer users, wrecks the image least; Canon, most since the days of the "creamy smooth image" that gave birth to the term "Nutella."

Foveon sensor implemented to its full potential, that is.

I seriously doubt whether either of those companies or Sony or Oly or Fuji or anyone else know how to do that. Imagine Chevrolet being given the task of getting the most out of the W16 engine AND building the vehicle to make it go. Sure, they could hire Piëch and his crew, but they could not buy the corporate culture or change their own.

I know that is an extreme example; but there are plenty of instances where mass manufacturers cannot cope with exotic designs. To make it work, they have to set up specialist shops, which, in the end, are very similar to the boutique production facility before and rarely are an improvement.

The fine folks at Foveon made it clear where and why they wanted their eggs in the Sigma basket at the time of the sale, and I bet there were such reasons behind their decision at the time.

In fact, Nikon . . .

A story for another day.

Richard Franiec wrote:

Would you buy Foveon sensor implemented into Canon 5DMkIII (or if you like Nikon D800) and if not, why?

Cheers,

Richard

-- hide signature --

Laurence
laurence at appledore-farm dot com
Sometimes, life is going to hit you with a brick. Don't lose faith.
Steve Jobs
http://www.pbase.com/lmatson
http://www.pbase.com/sigmadslr
http://www.howardmyerslaw.com

-- hide signature --

Laurence
laurence at appledore-farm dot com
Sometimes, life is going to hit you with a brick. Don't lose faith.
Steve Jobs
http://www.pbase.com/lmatson
http://www.pbase.com/sigmadslr
http://www.howardmyerslaw.com

Richard Franiec
Richard Franiec OP Senior Member • Posts: 2,521
Re: Simple question:

Laurence Matson wrote:

Richard Franiec wrote:

Laurence Matson wrote:

Nikon, maybe. Canon, no.

Nikon, of the Bayer users, wrecks the image least; Canon, most since the days of the "creamy smooth image" that gave birth to the term "Nutella."

Foveon sensor implemented to its full potential, that is.

I seriously doubt whether either of those companies or Sony or Oly or Fuji or anyone else know how to do that. Imagine Chevrolet being given the task of getting the most out of the W16 engine AND building the vehicle to make it go. Sure, they could hire Piëch and his crew, but they could not buy the corporate culture or change their own.

I know that is an extreme example; but there are plenty of instances where mass manufacturers cannot cope with exotic designs. To make it work, they have to set up specialist shops, which, in the end, are very similar to the boutique production facility before and rarely are an improvement.

The fine folks at Foveon made it clear where and why they wanted their eggs in the Sigma basket at the time of the sale, and I bet there were such reasons behind their decision at the time.

Interesting...

One would think that the biggest players on the market with their technological know how should be better suited to figure out the optimum for any sensor technology. I can only imagine that behind the scenes countless "boutique" projects are going on all the time.

Well, my question was theoretical, of course and should be treated accordingly.

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L Tippett Senior Member • Posts: 1,961
Re: Simple question:

Richard Franiec wrote:

Would you buy Foveon sensor implemented into Canon 5DMkIII (or if you like Nikon D800) and if not, why?

Cheers,

Richard

Hi Richard.

I personally would say no.

Although i have liked the ergonomic feel and the handling of Nikon SLRs the biggest reason i would prefer to stick with a Sigma body is purely down to the lack of clutter and ease of use.

This is mainly due to a limited amount of menus and buttons to have to contend with.

A good example for me is when i use the mirror up function which is so easy to set on the Sigma body and can be set without having to enter any menus.

There are a few features such as live view i would like but for me i like to keep the camera body simple and Sigma have always done this.

As for the Canon 5DMkIII i can't really comment as i have never used one before.

Kind regards Lea.

lpperspective Regular Member • Posts: 108
Probably yes

If the Canon sensor, in addition to deliver the details I get with my SD1, is capable of providing less noise at higher ISO the answer is yes. The variety of existing accessories for Canon and Nikon is just one reason. I recently was searching for remote triggers with TTL and could not find any for my SD1, they were mostly for Canon and Nikon. I decided to buy Pocket Wizard for Canon and manually set the flashes to be used with my Sigma.

BTW. I own a Canon EOS 7D and a Sigma SD1m. I use the 7D for birding, some Spectroscopy and the SD1m for everything else.

Richard Franiec
Richard Franiec OP Senior Member • Posts: 2,521
Re: Simple question:

L Tippett wrote:

Richard Franiec wrote:

Would you buy Foveon sensor implemented into Canon 5DMkIII (or if you like Nikon D800) and if not, why?

Cheers,

Richard

Hi Richard.

I personally would say no.

Although i have liked the ergonomic feel and the handling of Nikon SLRs the biggest reason i would prefer to stick with a Sigma body is purely down to the lack of clutter and ease of use.

This is mainly due to a limited amount of menus and buttons to have to contend with.

A good example for me is when i use the mirror up function which is so easy to set on the Sigma body and can be set without having to enter any menus.

There are a few features such as live view i would like but for me i like to keep the camera body simple and Sigma have always done this.

As for the Canon 5DMkIII i can't really comment as i have never used one before.

Kind regards Lea.

Fair enough and honest. Thank you Lea.

Huge fan of your amazing landscape photos,

Richard

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Richard Franiec
Richard Franiec OP Senior Member • Posts: 2,521
Re: Probably yes

As a 7D ex-user I can easily imagine that two cameras you are using compliments each other very well. I guess if you could roll both into one, the combo could be fantastic?

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BarrytheB Veteran Member • Posts: 3,436
simple answer

Yes with Nikon

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lpperspective Regular Member • Posts: 108
Re: Probably yes

That is exactly my point Richard. You got it.

Regards

Luis

petr marek Regular Member • Posts: 179
Re: Simple question:

I would buy Foveon implemented to Panasonic GH2, with mirrorless M43 mount (ultimate lens range including adapters possibility), fast response, really fast autofocus (photo/video), very good low light ISO, reliability and of course video capabilities and universal RAW software support. And fantastic price...

Erik Magnuson Forum Pro • Posts: 12,247
Re: Simple question:

L Tippett wrote:

A good example for me is when i use the mirror up function which is so easy to set on the Sigma body and can be set without having to enter any menus.

That's not a good example because neither the 5D3 nor the D800 require menus for mirror-up. 5D3: press the live view button. D800: it's on the drive mode dial like the SD1.

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Erik

SandyF Forum Pro • Posts: 14,939
Re: Simple question:

Richard Franiec wrote:

MrBlissfly wrote:

For me no.

The are are far to bulky for me, Fuji X form factor absolutely

Try to think along the SD1 lines

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Formerly posting as 'Blissfly'

The SD1 body seems smaller and lighter than the Canon 5DII. I have them here side-by-side and the extra heft isn't solely in the Canon lens. I don't know how the 5DIII compares to the 5DII. The controls on the SD1 are 'easier' IMHO than the Canon. The Canon LCD is much better than the SD1 screen.

I'm so spoiled by the smaller size & weight of the DP2Merrill and really prefer the DP form to the DSLR form.... all the IQ punch of the bigger DSLRs in an EASY to carry size. Could Sigma do something more innovative in body? I've been dragging around 5DII, SD1 and DP2Merrill all day. My neck hurts....

Best regards, Sandy
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Erik Magnuson Forum Pro • Posts: 12,247
Re: Simple question:

The SD1 body seems smaller and lighter than the Canon 5DII

Weights with battery:

  • 5DIII: 950g
  • 5DII: 850g
  • SD1M: 796g
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Erik

docmaas Veteran Member • Posts: 5,181
Re: Simple question:

More like Chevrolet trying to work with an old Studebaker, maybe an Avanti if you want to capture the small part of Sigma cameras that is truly unique, the foveon sensor.  The rest of the SD1, since we are talking SLR mode, is pretty far behind the best from any of the other major vendors.

BTW, Canon was not the source of Nutella term as I recall.  The source was one Laurence Mattson was it not?

Mike@Redwoods.Rain

Laurence Matson wrote:

Richard Franiec wrote:

Laurence Matson wrote:

Nikon, maybe. Canon, no.

Nikon, of the Bayer users, wrecks the image least; Canon, most since the days of the "creamy smooth image" that gave birth to the term "Nutella."

Foveon sensor implemented to its full potential, that is.

I seriously doubt whether either of those companies or Sony or Oly or Fuji or anyone else know how to do that. Imagine Chevrolet being given the task of getting the most out of the W16 engine AND building the vehicle to make it go. Sure, they could hire Piëch and his crew, but they could not buy the corporate culture or change their own.

I know that is an extreme example; but there are plenty of instances where mass manufacturers cannot cope with exotic designs. To make it work, they have to set up specialist shops, which, in the end, are very similar to the boutique production facility before and rarely are an improvement.

The fine folks at Foveon made it clear where and why they wanted their eggs in the Sigma basket at the time of the sale, and I bet there were such reasons behind their decision at the time.

In fact, Nikon . . .

A story for another day.

Richard Franiec wrote:

Would you buy Foveon sensor implemented into Canon 5DMkIII (or if you like Nikon D800) and if not, why?

Cheers,

Richard

-- hide signature --

Laurence
laurence at appledore-farm dot com
Sometimes, life is going to hit you with a brick. Don't lose faith.
Steve Jobs
http://www.pbase.com/lmatson
http://www.pbase.com/sigmadslr
http://www.howardmyerslaw.com

-- hide signature --

Laurence
laurence at appledore-farm dot com
Sometimes, life is going to hit you with a brick. Don't lose faith.
Steve Jobs
http://www.pbase.com/lmatson
http://www.pbase.com/sigmadslr
http://www.howardmyerslaw.com

Richard Franiec
Richard Franiec OP Senior Member • Posts: 2,521
Re: Simple question:

SandyF wrote:

Richard Franiec wrote:

MrBlissfly wrote:

For me no.

The are are far to bulky for me, Fuji X form factor absolutely

Try to think along the SD1 lines

-- hide signature --

Formerly posting as 'Blissfly'

The SD1 body seems smaller and lighter than the Canon 5DII. I have them here side-by-side and the extra heft isn't solely in the Canon lens. I don't know how the 5DIII compares to the 5DII. The controls on the SD1 are 'easier' IMHO than the Canon. The Canon LCD is much better than the SD1 screen.

Thank you for comparison of SD1 and 5DmkII in terms of body size/weight and LCD. Taking IQ out of equation how do you compare performance and usefulness of features available (or not) on both cameras? It seems like 5DIII is a significant step forward from 5DII which I also have.

I'm so spoiled by the smaller size & weight of the DP2Merrill and really prefer the DP form to the DSLR form.... all the IQ punch of the bigger DSLRs in an EASY to carry size. Could Sigma do something more innovative in body? I've been dragging around 5DII, SD1 and DP2Merrill all day. My neck hurts....

I hope that results from all the pain will be well worth the efforts.

Take care

Richard

Best regards, Sandy
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman (archival)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann (current, Death Valley photos)

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Richard Franiec
Richard Franiec OP Senior Member • Posts: 2,521
Re: Simple question:

docmaas wrote:

More like Chevrolet trying to work with an old Studebaker, maybe an Avanti if you want to capture the small part of Sigma cameras that is truly unique, the foveon sensor. The rest of the SD1, since we are talking SLR mode, is pretty far behind the best from any of the other major vendors.

BTW, Canon was not the source of Nutella term as I recall. The source was one Laurence Mattson was it not?

If memory serves me well, our friend Rick Decker coined the "Nutella" term but I might be wrong,

Mike@Redwoods.Rain

Laurence Matson wrote:

Richard Franiec wrote:

Laurence Matson wrote:

Nikon, maybe. Canon, no.

Nikon, of the Bayer users, wrecks the image least; Canon, most since the days of the "creamy smooth image" that gave birth to the term "Nutella."

Foveon sensor implemented to its full potential, that is.

I seriously doubt whether either of those companies or Sony or Oly or Fuji or anyone else know how to do that. Imagine Chevrolet being given the task of getting the most out of the W16 engine AND building the vehicle to make it go. Sure, they could hire Piëch and his crew, but they could not buy the corporate culture or change their own.

I know that is an extreme example; but there are plenty of instances where mass manufacturers cannot cope with exotic designs. To make it work, they have to set up specialist shops, which, in the end, are very similar to the boutique production facility before and rarely are an improvement.

The fine folks at Foveon made it clear where and why they wanted their eggs in the Sigma basket at the time of the sale, and I bet there were such reasons behind their decision at the time.

In fact, Nikon . . .

A story for another day.

Richard Franiec wrote:

Would you buy Foveon sensor implemented into Canon 5DMkIII (or if you like Nikon D800) and if not, why?

Cheers,

Richard

-- hide signature --

Laurence
laurence at appledore-farm dot com
Sometimes, life is going to hit you with a brick. Don't lose faith.
Steve Jobs
http://www.pbase.com/lmatson
http://www.pbase.com/sigmadslr
http://www.howardmyerslaw.com

-- hide signature --

Laurence
laurence at appledore-farm dot com
Sometimes, life is going to hit you with a brick. Don't lose faith.
Steve Jobs
http://www.pbase.com/lmatson
http://www.pbase.com/sigmadslr
http://www.howardmyerslaw.com

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