Nifty Fifty DOF Comparison (Nikkor 50mm 1.4G and PL 25mm f1.4)

Started Jan 12, 2013 | Discussions
monodrift Regular Member • Posts: 120
Nifty Fifty DOF Comparison (Nikkor 50mm 1.4G and PL 25mm f1.4)
9

For those curious of the differences of fast normal lenses on full-frame and m4/3, I took a few test shots today. I am far from a pixel peeper, and I felt dirty after taking these test shots :-). Keep in mind this is by no means a controlled or scientific comparison. I'll leave that stuff to the people who really care.

From my experience, the PL 25mm is much sharper than the 50mm 1.4G @ f1.4. The 50mm has more of a glow to pictures shot wide open. The Nikkor also suffers from more vignetting (which I actually don't mind). Lastly, I also find the bokeh quality of the 25 so be more pleasing in many situations. I really must commend Panasonic for their excellent work on the 25mm!

For many people (at least those represented on the internet), different formats seem to be regarded as an 'us vs. them' rivalry. So many people would like to have you believe that their preferred format is the end-all of photography and that you must be crazy to shoot with anything else. These claims, to any level headed person, are ridiculous.

I enjoy both m4/3 and full frame immensely, and after using both side-by-side for a month, its easy to see the pros and cons of each. I love m4/3 because of its size, ease of use, weight, and style (the OMD is damn sexy)... and I love my new D600 for its ergonomics, speed, image quality, and DOF control. I will hopefully be keeping and using both for many years to come.

So hear me out: this thread is not intended to start any kind of format flame war (which is why I didn't mention formats in the title). It is intended for people like me who were (and are) curious about DOF differences between formats.







Nikon D600
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RoelHendrickx
RoelHendrickx Forum Pro • Posts: 25,480
Good illustration of the differences in DOF. Thanks a lot.
2

For some purposes I prefer a bit more DOF to come with my aperture speed (for light gathering).

For other purposes I prefer less DOF.

Joe (Great Bustard) will now enter the conversation and say that on FF, deeper DOF can always be achieved by stopping down a bit.  He would be right (but it goes at the expense of light gathering and thus shutter speed...)

In an ideal world, I would own cameras of all available formats and have them with me all the time because they would weigh nothing.

In the real world, I have made my choices and am happy with them 95% of the time.

-- hide signature --

Roel Hendrickx
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tedolf
tedolf Forum Pro • Posts: 24,433
Really a meaningless comparison......
2

no one would shoot a 25mm lens on a 4/3 sensor if they were looking for subject isolation.

Everybody knows that you are not going to get good subject isolation with a 25mm lens on any format.

They would shoot 50mm or above, just like someone on FF would do:

Industar 52mm f/2.8 ND61

Tedolph

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RoelHendrickx
RoelHendrickx Forum Pro • Posts: 25,480
I disagree
3

tedolf wrote:

no one would shoot a 25mm lens on a 4/3 sensor if they were looking for subject isolation.

Everybody knows that you are not going to get good subject isolation with a 25mm lens on any format.

They would shoot 50mm or above, just like someone on FF would do:

The cropfactor makes 25mm on FT and µFT equivalent (in FOV) to 50mm of FF.

So it is perfect for purposes of comparison.

Yes, subject isolation is easier to achieve with longer lenses, but that is not the point here.

And it is NOT impossible with the PL25mm F1.4: it just takes some more attention to the relative distances (photographer to subject and subject to background).

Here's an old portrait I shot of a man with his wife standing at the table in the background (in retrospect I even felt she was TOO much blurred):

Vic Mees +

-- hide signature --

Roel Hendrickx
lots of images: www.roelh.zenfolio.com
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papillon_65
papillon_65 Forum Pro • Posts: 27,030
I hate to break it to you Ted....

tedolf wrote:

no one would shoot a 25mm lens on a 4/3 sensor if they were looking for subject isolation.

Everybody knows that you are not going to get good subject isolation with a 25mm lens on any format.

They would shoot 50mm or above, just like someone on FF would do:

Industar 52mm f/2.8 ND61

Tedolph

But that's exactly why I used it here, you'll also find numerous examples of it being used this way here

-- hide signature --

Any problem on earth can be solved by a well aimed Pomegranate...
Tony
http://the-random-photographer.blogspot.com/

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tedolf
tedolf Forum Pro • Posts: 24,433
You prove my point....

RoelHendrickx wrote:

tedolf wrote:

no one would shoot a 25mm lens on a 4/3 sensor if they were looking for subject isolation.

Everybody knows that you are not going to get good subject isolation with a 25mm lens on any format.

They would shoot 50mm or above, just like someone on FF would do:

The cropfactor makes 25mm on FT and µFT equivalent (in FOV) to 50mm of FF.

So it is perfect for purposes of comparison.

Yes, subject isolation is easier to achieve with longer lenses, but that is not the point here.

And it is NOT impossible with the PL25mm F1.4: it just takes some more attention to the relative distances (photographer to subject and subject to background).

Here's an old portrait I shot of a man with his wife standing at the table in the background (in retrospect I even felt she was TOO much blurred):

Vic Mees +

-- hide signature --

Roel Hendrickx
lots of images: www.roelh.zenfolio.com
my E-3 user field report from Tunisian Sahara: http://www.biofos.com/ukpsg/roel.html

if you are going to move to a smaller sensor to get the same subject isolation, you are going to have to go to: longer focal lenght, shorter subject to camera distance or longer subject to background distance. but, you are not going to keep the distances the same and go to a shorter focal length, right?

Isn't this exactly what I was getting at?

Tedolph

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s_grins
s_grins Forum Pro • Posts: 11,864
Re: Nifty Fifty DOF Comparison (Nikkor 50mm 1.4G and PL 25mm f1.4)

More of the same: You're late with your revelation

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/50643255

this was posted before you couple days ago.

-- hide signature --

Looking for equilibrium...

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reygon Senior Member • Posts: 2,037
Re: Nifty Fifty DOF Comparison (Nikkor 50mm 1.4G and PL 25mm f1.4)
1

monodrift wrote:

For those curious of the differences of fast normal lenses on full-frame and m4/3, I took a few test shots today. I am far from a pixel peeper, and I felt dirty after taking these test shots :-). Keep in mind this is by no means a controlled or scientific comparison. I'll leave that stuff to the people who really care.

From my experience, the PL 25mm is much sharper than the 50mm 1.4G @ f1.4. The 50mm has more of a glow to pictures shot wide open. The Nikkor also suffers from more vignetting (which I actually don't mind). Lastly, I also find the bokeh quality of the 25 so be more pleasing in many situations. I really must commend Panasonic for their excellent work on the 25mm!

For many people (at least those represented on the internet), different formats seem to be regarded as an 'us vs. them' rivalry. So many people would like to have you believe that their preferred format is the end-all of photography and that you must be crazy to shoot with anything else. These claims, to any level headed person, are ridiculous.

I enjoy both m4/3 and full frame immensely, and after using both side-by-side for a month, its easy to see the pros and cons of each. I love m4/3 because of its size, ease of use, weight, and style (the OMD is damn sexy)... and I love my new D600 for its ergonomics, speed, image quality, and DOF control. I will hopefully be keeping and using both for many years to come.

So hear me out: this thread is not intended to start any kind of format flame war (which is why I didn't mention formats in the title). It is intended for people like me who were (and are) curious about DOF differences between formats.







even the cat knows which one is the sharper lens. He/she looked at straight on the better le ns

DOF or bokeh is a personal preference Factoring the lens and body limitations.

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Take nothing but photos... Kill nothing but time... Leave nothing but footprints...

Ron Evers
Ron Evers Senior Member • Posts: 1,611
Re: I hate to break it to you Ted....
2

It depends on what you want!  You cannot expect to have the same DOF control with a 25mm lens on M4/3 as a 50mm lens on FF or other crop body format.  You sacrifice that for the same field of view as FF.   I shoot a 50mm adapted lens if I want the same DOF control.

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The wood is clear between the knots.

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OP monodrift Regular Member • Posts: 120
Re: Nifty Fifty DOF Comparison (Nikkor 50mm 1.4G and PL 25mm f1.4)
1

s_grins wrote:

More of the same: You're late with your revelation

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/50643255

this was posted before you couple days ago.

-- hide signature --

Looking for equilibrium...

This is hardly a revelation. This is a comparison between full frame and m4/3 with equivalent lenses (not aps-c with mis-matched lenses like in the link you provided) that many are interested in seeing, as I was before I augmented my camera system with the D600.

papillon_65
papillon_65 Forum Pro • Posts: 27,030
Re: I hate to break it to you Ted....
1

Ron Evers wrote:

It depends on what you want! You cannot expect to have the same DOF control with a 25mm lens on M4/3 as a 50mm lens on FF or other crop body format. You sacrifice that for the same field of view as FF. I shoot a 50mm adapted lens if I want the same DOF control.

-- hide signature --

The wood is clear between the knots.

I'm well aware of that, but as I've just demonstrated, you can use the 25mm F1.4 for isolating a subject and the link will lead you to plenty of other examples. It is not true to say that you would not use this lens for this - I've just disproved that.

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Any problem on earth can be solved by a well aimed Pomegranate...
Tony
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s_grins
s_grins Forum Pro • Posts: 11,864
Re: Nifty Fifty DOF Comparison (Nikkor 50mm 1.4G and PL 25mm f1.4)

monodrift wrote:

s_grins wrote:

More of the same: You're late with your revelation

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/50643255

this was posted before you couple days ago.

-- hide signature --

Looking for equilibrium...

This is hardly a revelation. This is a comparison between full frame and m4/3 with equivalent lenses (not aps-c with mis-matched lenses like in the link you provided) that many are interested in seeing, as I was before I augmented my camera system with the D600.

So, what you did not expect or you did not know. What stroke you down and you decided to share?

-- hide signature --

Looking for equilibrium...

 s_grins's gear list:s_grins's gear list
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SergeyGreen
SergeyGreen Contributing Member • Posts: 582
Yes, you can ..
1

papillon_65 wrote:


I'm well aware of that, but as I've just demonstrated, you can use the 25mm F1.4 for isolating a subject and the link will lead you to plenty of other examples. It is not true to say that you would not use this lens for this - I've just disproved that.

@4mm ...

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-sergey

RicksAstro
RicksAstro Veteran Member • Posts: 3,658
Re: Good illustration of the differences in DOF. Thanks a lot.

RoelHendrickx wrote:

Joe (Great Bustard) will now enter the conversation and say that on FF, deeper DOF can always be achieved by stopping down a bit. He would be right (but it goes at the expense of light gathering and thus shutter speed...)

Actually, total light gathering would be identical stopped down 2 stops because the overall area is 4x.

If you bump the ISO up 2x, the noise will be similar and the shutter speed would be the same and would have an equivalent DOF.

That's what Joe would say

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SergeyGreen
SergeyGreen Contributing Member • Posts: 582
I hate repeating the images ..

RoelHendrickx wrote:


Here's an old portrait I shot of a man with his wife standing at the table in the background (in retrospect I even felt she was TOO much blurred):


I think (I am pretty sure) for this blur on FF, and with 50/1.4 you should be able to frame that guy down to his waist. And this would make a more interesting frame methinks. IMO of course.

-- hide signature --

-sergey

reygon Senior Member • Posts: 2,037
Re: Nifty Fifty DOF Comparison (Nikkor 50mm 1.4G and PL 25mm f1.4)

s_grins wrote:

monodrift wrote:

s_grins wrote:

More of the same: You're late with your revelation

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/50643255

this was posted before you couple days ago.

-- hide signature --

Looking for equilibrium...

This is hardly a revelation. This is a comparison between full frame and m4/3 with equivalent lenses (not aps-c with mis-matched lenses like in the link you provided) that many are interested in seeing, as I was before I augmented my camera system with the D600.

So, what you did not expect or you did not know. What stroke you down and you decided to share?

-- hide signature --

Looking for equilibrium...

it's a forum and different gears so different result & perspective. Some guys compare their BMW with Audi or Lexus even with different engine and features so same here people can post comparison for any purposes.

-- hide signature --

reygon
----------------------------------------------------------------
Take nothing but photos... Kill nothing but time... Leave nothing but footprints...

tedolf
tedolf Forum Pro • Posts: 24,433
Ah, yes Tony but....
1

papillon_65 wrote:

tedolf wrote:

no one would shoot a 25mm lens on a 4/3 sensor if they were looking for subject isolation.

Everybody knows that you are not going to get good subject isolation with a 25mm lens on any format.

They would shoot 50mm or above, just like someone on FF would do:

Industar 52mm f/2.8 ND61

Tedolph

But that's exactly why I used it here, you'll also find numerous examples of it being used this way here

-- hide signature --

Any problem on earth can be solved by a well aimed Pomegranate...
Tony
http://the-random-photographer.blogspot.com/

you used a very close camera to subject distance and a long subject to background distance, thus you cleverly manipulated the scene....

a cheap photographer's trick ! (so to speak).

If you were shooting a real person at this distance with this focal lenght  you would risk some facial distortion.  Maybe thisis right on the line and you could get away with it.

Tedolph

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tedolf
tedolf Forum Pro • Posts: 24,433
Exactly....

Ron Evers wrote:

It depends on what you want! You cannot expect to have the same DOF control with a 25mm lens on M4/3 as a 50mm lens on FF or other crop body format. You sacrifice that for the same field of view as FF. I shoot a 50mm adapted lens if I want the same DOF control.

-- hide signature --

The wood is clear between the knots.

A much more interesting test would have been the same lens on both cameras with the one on the u 4/3 sensor set to two F stops faster.  The DOF should be identical but I bet they would look different, particularly in how quickly the OOF areas change as you move away from the stated DOF.

Now that would be a meaningful test.

Monodrift, are you game?

Tedolph

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papillon_65
papillon_65 Forum Pro • Posts: 27,030
Re: Ah, yes Tony but....
1

tedolf wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

tedolf wrote:

no one would shoot a 25mm lens on a 4/3 sensor if they were looking for subject isolation.

Everybody knows that you are not going to get good subject isolation with a 25mm lens on any format.

They would shoot 50mm or above, just like someone on FF would do:

Industar 52mm f/2.8 ND61

Tedolph

But that's exactly why I used it here, you'll also find numerous examples of it being used this way here

-- hide signature --

Any problem on earth can be solved by a well aimed Pomegranate...
Tony
http://the-random-photographer.blogspot.com/

you used a very close camera to subject distance and a long subject to background distance, thus you cleverly manipulated the scene....

a cheap photographer's trick ! (so to speak).

If you were shooting a real person at this distance with this focal lenght you would risk some facial distortion. Maybe thisis right on the line and you could get away with it.

Tedolph

I know what you are saying Ted, and yes a longer focal length is better in the m4/3's world, but the 25mm F1.4 can be used this way and often is. Your mistake was to rule it out completely, I think you might have worded it a little better, because as you well know, rules are there to be broken 

-- hide signature --

Any problem on earth can be solved by a well aimed Pomegranate...
Tony
http://the-random-photographer.blogspot.com/

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tedolf
tedolf Forum Pro • Posts: 24,433
Re: Ah, yes Tony but....

papillon_65 wrote:

tedolf wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

tedolf wrote:

no one would shoot a 25mm lens on a 4/3 sensor if they were looking for subject isolation.

Everybody knows that you are not going to get good subject isolation with a 25mm lens on any format.

They would shoot 50mm or above, just like someone on FF would do:

Industar 52mm f/2.8 ND61

Tedolph

But that's exactly why I used it here, you'll also find numerous examples of it being used this way here

-- hide signature --

Any problem on earth can be solved by a well aimed Pomegranate...
Tony
http://the-random-photographer.blogspot.com/

you used a very close camera to subject distance and a long subject to background distance, thus you cleverly manipulated the scene....

a cheap photographer's trick ! (so to speak).

If you were shooting a real person at this distance with this focal lenght you would risk some facial distortion. Maybe thisis right on the line and you could get away with it.

Tedolph

I know what you are saying Ted, and yes a longer focal length is better in the m4/3's world, but the 25mm F1.4 can be used this way and often is. Your mistake was to rule it out completely, I think you might have worded it a little better, because as you well know, rules are there to be broken

-- hide signature --

Any problem on earth can be solved by a well aimed Pomegranate...
Tony
http://the-random-photographer.blogspot.com/

I prefer to speak in absolutes and superlatives.

Tedolph

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Olympus PEN E-P5 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 9-18mm F4.0-5.6 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 40-150mm 1:4-5.6 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 14-42mm 1:3.5-5.6 II R Samyang 7.5mm F3.5 UMC Fisheye MFT +8 more
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