How to delete a photo from Forum?

Started Jan 10, 2013 | Discussions
apaflo Veteran Member • Posts: 3,854
Re: How to delete a photo from Forum?

Olga Johnson wrote:

apaflo wrote:

Olga Johnson wrote:

Not sure what you mean about links. Folks link all the time from various other sites, such as Pbase, Zenfolio, Smugmug, etc.

Just to be very clear, and vastly more concise, our messages here do not have links to those other sites. Instead the DPR editor uploads a copy from the URL provided, and that copy is stored on the DPR forum server.

I don'tbelieve that is correct.

If it isn't correct, then you will see a picture of an Arctic fox in the article where I explaned this in detail. If your browser is pointed at the URL used to post the two images uploaded via URL, neither of the images that show up in that message will be seen (the URL now links to a picture of an Arctic fox).

To see the Arctic fox image at the URL used to upload the other two images, one can click on the "original size" button under either of the two embedded images that were inserted via URL. The two inserted from my computer will show the original size uploaded though, and of course those are the embedded images.

Go to this post. The first image is uploaded from my computer. The second is on Zenfolio. The first shows a DPR link, the second still shows a Zenfolio link.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/50634725

That article has two embedded images. The images that you see actually in the message are served directly from the DPR forum server (and are sized at 560x373 and 560x374 pixels, respectively).

The link you can see for the embedded image is a DPR link, with the interesting characteristic of having the original source link embedded. That is how they can also provide a clicky button for "original size".

If you click on the "original size" button beneath the embedded image your browser will be sent to the original link to show a full sized original image (which are 600x400 and 580x387 respectively).

Hence, it is very clear that the embedded image in a forum message is not a link, but rather an image from the forum servers. The "original size" button in indeed a link (and therefore might not point to the same image as the one that is embedded!).

quadrox Senior Member • Posts: 1,160
Copyright infringement

This appears to be a clear case of copyright infringement, especially since the user is not notified off this practice in any way. Posting a link is not the same thing as giving permission to create a copy and distribute it. I am extremely dissatisfied with this situation.

 quadrox's gear list:quadrox's gear list
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Deleted1929 Forum Pro • Posts: 13,050
Think again

> Posting a link is not the same thing as giving permission to create a copy and distribute it

The internet doesn't do "I changed my mind".

You post it, it exists in multiple copies all over the place.

Copies of entire websites are archived and maintained all over the place ( e.g. http://www.archive.org  ).

If you publish it, it's there for ever.

Copyright infringement is use without permission.  Copying and using alone is not copyright infringement.  I'd suggest you look very closely at the terms and conditions of image hosts and websites with public forums.  Typically they allow the website you post to a limited right to copy and distribute for purposes of maintaining functionality and data integrity.

If you're not happy with DPR's T&Cs then take the matter up directly with the editor or your legal council, because the moderators are just users who volunteer their time.  We can't fix your issue.

The whole problem with allowing unlimited editing after the fact is simply illustrated.

I post "X does Y".

You post "Actually, X doesn't, see link Z, it does A"

Now I edit my original post to "X does A"

Now someone else responds to the post saying "You twit, he already said that" because they never saw the mistake I made originally.

This stops me looking like I'm wrong ( which is very important to some people on the internet ) and makes the person who corrected them look silly ( also very important to some people on the internet ).

The best way to think of the internet is like a newspaper.  There are always going to be copies of what you posted to that big messy newspaper and you cannot undo it.

In short - you publish it - your problem forever.

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StephenG

Erik Magnuson Forum Pro • Posts: 12,247
Re: Copyright infringement

quadrox wrote:

This appears to be a clear case of copyright infringement, especially since the user is not notified off this practice in any way. Posting a link is not the same thing as giving permission to create a copy and distribute it. I am extremely dissatisfied with this situation.

The button is called "Insert/edit an image from the web".  It should be obvious that if you "insert" a 6000x4000 11Mb original but it shows up here less than 800 pixels wide that a copy has been made.

BTW, do you know how many copies of an image are made just using "normal" http?  There may be an original, a cached copy on the local web server, a cached copy on one or more proxy servers, a copy on the local disk of the viewer and the final copy on the screen of the local viewer.  These are all copies you have given (implicit) permission to be made by publishing the URL of the image.   Note that some of those proxies and services may even change their copy by resizing and compressing it.  It's just how the web works.

-- hide signature --

Erik

Detail Man
Detail Man Forum Pro • Posts: 16,801
Re: Think again ...

sjgcit wrote:

The internet doesn't do "I changed my mind".

If you publish it, it's there for ever.

If you're not happy with DPR's T&Cs then take the matter up directly with the editor or your legal council, because the moderators are just users who volunteer their time. We can't fix your issue.

The best way to think of the internet is like a newspaper. There are always going to be copies of what you posted to that big messy newspaper and you cannot undo it.

In short - you publish it - your problem forever.

You mean (for example) statements such as the following ?

sjgcit wrote:

You don't post images, you post links to images.

To remove the image from the forum you just remove the source of the image - the place it's stored on the web.

You can store images in your gallery ( which you can manage yourself ) or on an image hosting site ( like Flickr ) which, again, you manage yourself.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/50638073

quadrox Senior Member • Posts: 1,160
Re: Think again

sjgcit wrote:

> Posting a link is not the same thing as giving permission to create a copy and distribute it

The internet doesn't do "I changed my mind".

Not relevant at all.

You post it, it exists in multiple copies all over the place.

Doesn't mean it isn't copyright infringement. Just because everyone does something, does not necessarily make it right.

Copies of entire websites are archived and maintained all over the place ( e.g. http://www.archive.org ).

If you publish it, it's there for ever.

That may be reality, but that doesn't make it right or the law.

Copyright infringement is use without permission.

The first correct and relevant thing you said.

Copying and using alone is not copyright infringement.

It is when it is done without permission (since using in this context actually means distributing). Most definitely and absolutely. ALWAYS.

I'd suggest you look very closely at the terms and conditions of image hosts and websites with public forums. Typically they allow the website you post to a limited right to copy and distribute for purposes of maintaining functionality and data integrity.

Yes, when I upload an image to a image hosting site, I agree that THAT site has permission to do this. If I post a link to an image, but never upload the image myself, this is not true. A link is a link, and image is an image.

If you're not happy with DPR's T&Cs then take the matter up directly with the editor or your legal council, because the moderators are just users who volunteer their time. We can't fix your issue.

I never claimed that this was something that has to do with moderators, this is a red herring.

The whole problem with allowing unlimited editing after the fact is simply illustrated.

Irrelevant and not my problem. If I do not upload my image to dpreview, dpreview has no f***ing busines making a copy. NONE.

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quadrox Senior Member • Posts: 1,160
Re: Copyright infringement

Erik Magnuson wrote:

quadrox wrote:

This appears to be a clear case of copyright infringement, especially since the user is not notified off this practice in any way. Posting a link is not the same thing as giving permission to create a copy and distribute it. I am extremely dissatisfied with this situation.

The button is called "Insert/edit an image from the web". It should be obvious that if you "insert" a 6000x4000 11Mb original but it shows up here less than 800 pixels wide that a copy has been made.

If I post a link, I do not use that button, I just paste a link. Your statement is completely wrong in this context.

BTW, do you know how many copies of an image are made just using "normal" http?

Yes - but these have implicit permission for various reasons, I am not stupid, I know how the internet works. But even so, technically they may very well be copyright infringement, but almost nobody will sue anyone because it is in their own interest.

There may be an original, a cached copy on the local web server, a cached copy on one or more proxy servers, a copy on the local disk of the viewer and the final copy on the screen of the local viewer. These are all copies you have given (implicit) permission to be made by publishing the URL of the image. Note that some of those proxies and services may even change their copy by resizing and compressing it. It's just how the web works.

I fully agree.

But no web cache/proxy will create a copy of an image if the html only contains a link. Only when the user actually requests that image specifically, will the image be cached.

by posting a link, I am in NO WAY giving permission for dpreview to copy and distribute, this is simply not true.

Imagine that I post a link to a youtube video - does dpreview now have the rights to that video and may give it to it's users? I think not!

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MOD Olga Johnson Forum Pro • Posts: 24,126
Re: How to delete a photo from Forum?

apaflo wrote:

Go to this post. The first image is uploaded from my computer. The second is on Zenfolio. The first shows a DPR link, the second still shows a Zenfolio link.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/50634725

That article has two embedded images. The images that you see actually in the message are served directly from the DPR forum server (and are sized at 560x373 and 560x374 pixels, respectively).

The link you can see for the embedded image is a DPR link, with the interesting characteristic of having the original source link embedded. That is how they can also provide a clicky button for "original size".If you click on the "original size" button beneath the embedded image your browser will be sent to the original link to show a full sized original image (which are 600x400 and 580x387 respectively).

Hence, it is very clear that the embedded image in a forum message is not a link, but rather an image from the forum servers. The "original size" button in indeed a link (and therefore might not point to the same image as the one that is embedded!).

Now I get it,  the viewable, embedded resized image is an image from the forum servers, but when you click on the image it takes you back to the source.

At least that was made very clear to me while using the ipad last night. On the Windows machine, I'm using now, the link appears as:

"http://forums.dpreview.com/files/w/TS940x940?url=http%3A%2F%2Fyiayia.zenfolio.com%2Fimg%2Fs4%2Fv12%2Fp39531514-3.jpg&signature=NV5TjD47Nj7ze7xHDwtdhbeCIeU="

Other than deleting the source, you can still edit a post (within allowable time limits) with an image and remove its reference from anywhere in the post, which is what I think we started talking about in the first place.  

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Olga

JulesJ
JulesJ Forum Pro • Posts: 45,472
Re: How to delete a photo from Forum?

As a Mod sjgcit, you are partly wrong here. You can either posts a link to an image that you have on the web, in which case it is easily removable by yourself. Or you load an image into your post using the  second icon from the right that you see above the text box when posting. Doing this embeds the image that comes from your computer into your post on DPR and as far as i know it is then not possible to remove it. Which I don't like.

Jules

sjgcit wrote:

You don't post images, you post links to images.

To remove the image from the forum you just remove the source of the image - the place it's stored on the web.

You can store images in your gallery ( which you can manage yourself ) or on an image hosting site ( like Flickr ) which, again, you manage yourself.

Erik Magnuson Forum Pro • Posts: 12,247
Re: Copyright infringement

quadrox wrote:

If I post a link, I do not use that button, I just paste a link. Your statement is completely wrong in this context.

If you just post a link, then no embedded copy is made so your complaint is unfounded.

http://www.pbase.com/maderik/image/148090824/original.jpg

But no web cache/proxy will create a copy of an image if the html only contains a link. Only when the user actually requests that image specifically, will the image be cached.

Then you don't know how the internet works anymore - prefetching is increasingly common in both proxies and browsers.

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Erik

pavi1 Veteran Member • Posts: 6,867
Re: How to delete a photo from Forum?

JulesJ wrote:

As a Mod sjgcit, you are partly wrong here. You can either posts a link to an image that you have on the web, in which case it is easily removable by yourself. Or you load an image into your post using the second icon from the right that you see above the text box when posting. Doing this embeds the image that comes from your computer into your post on DPR and as far as i know it is then not possible to remove it. Which I don't like.

Jules

Then don't do it. Same applies to drunk posting, if you don't want the world to know what kind of drunk you are, don't post drunk.

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WSSA #44

JulesJ
JulesJ Forum Pro • Posts: 45,472
Re: How to delete a photo from Forum?
1

pavi1 wrote:

JulesJ wrote:

As a Mod sjgcit, you are partly wrong here. You can either posts a link to an image that you have on the web, in which case it is easily removable by yourself. Or you load an image into your post using the second icon from the right that you see above the text box when posting. Doing this embeds the image that comes from your computer into your post on DPR and as far as i know it is then not possible to remove it. Which I don't like.

Jules


Then don't do it. Same applies to drunk posting, if you don't want the world to know what kind of drunk you are, don't post drunk.

That's not an extremely helpful post Pavi1. Although I might want to share an image with fellow posters for a short time, I might well not want it to be there forever. Just as when one has a website, would you want bit to be the same forever without ever changing it. There could be many reasons why someone had posted a picture for the world to see and then decide they wanted it removed. We should have that choice as owners of the image and it's copyright.

Jules

pavi1 Veteran Member • Posts: 6,867
Re: How to delete a photo from Forum?

JulesJ wrote:

pavi1 wrote:

JulesJ wrote:

As a Mod sjgcit, you are partly wrong here. You can either posts a link to an image that you have on the web, in which case it is easily removable by yourself. Or you load an image into your post using the second icon from the right that you see above the text box when posting. Doing this embeds the image that comes from your computer into your post on DPR and as far as i know it is then not possible to remove it. Which I don't like.

Jules


Then don't do it. Same applies to drunk posting, if you don't want the world to know what kind of drunk you are, don't post drunk.

That's not an extremely helpful post Pavi1. Although I might want to share an image with fellow posters for a short time, I might well not want it to be there forever. Just as when one has a website, would you want bit to be the same forever without ever changing it. There could be many reasons why someone had posted a picture for the world to see and then decide they wanted it removed. We should have that choice as owners of the image and it's copyright.

Jules

I fail to see how letting someone who does not appear to know, what you put on the internet is there forever is not helpful.. Every email you have ever sent over the internet is there forever. There are no take backs.

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WSSA #44

Erik Magnuson Forum Pro • Posts: 12,247
I see 3 different buttons

JulesJ wrote:

You can either posts a link to an image that you have on the web, in which case it is easily removable by yourself. Or you load an image into your post using the second icon from the right that you see above the text box when posting.

And the first one does not work like you think: you supply a URI and DPRreview will fetch and resize a local copy and create a link to the "original".   This change fixes the complaint that people were embedding links to (multiple) huge images which caused slow response for readers whose connections (and caches) were limited. A single forum click could consume much of your monthly bandwidth cap.

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Erik

Erik Magnuson Forum Pro • Posts: 12,247
Re: Think again

quadrox wrote:

Doesn't mean it isn't copyright infringement. Just because everyone does something, does not necessarily make it right.

Just because you don't like it doesn't make it copyright infringement.  It could fall under either "fair use" or implied consent.

Copying and using alone is not copyright infringement.

It is when it is done without permission (since using in this context actually means distributing). Most definitely and absolutely. ALWAYS.

Not ALWAYS (see "fair use".) And permission is a tricky concept when publishing on the internet; by publishing an unrestricted URI you have implicitly granted permission for others to make a copy of your image for viewing.

Yes, when I upload an image to a image hosting site, I agree that THAT site has permission to do this. If I post a link to an image, but never upload the image myself, this is not true. A link is a link, and image is an image.

It's your duty as the copyright holder to understand what each "publish" action actually does.

Irrelevant and not my problem. If I do not upload my image to dpreview, dpreview has no f***ing busines making a copy. NONE.

By "posting a link" you may be uploading the image.  Even if you write the html/js yourself, you really do not know what a particular implementation does for a given action except by testing.

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Erik

JulesJ
JulesJ Forum Pro • Posts: 45,472
Re: I see 3 different buttons
1

Erik Magnuson wrote:

JulesJ wrote:

You can either posts a link to an image that you have on the web, in which case it is easily removable by yourself. Or you load an image into your post using the second icon from the right that you see above the text box when posting.

And the first one does not work like you think: you supply a URI and DPRreview will fetch and resize a local copy and create a link to the "original". This change fixes the complaint that people were embedding links to (multiple) huge images which caused slow response for readers whose connections (and caches) were limited. A single forum click could consume much of your monthly bandwidth cap.

Hmmmn. Worse than I thought. I would still like the opportunity to remove an image I had posted later on.

Erik Magnuson Forum Pro • Posts: 12,247
Re: I see 3 different buttons

JulesJ wrote:

Hmmmn. Worse than I thought. I would still like the opportunity to remove an image I had posted later on.

Then post a true link where the user must click to see the image. But if you want people to see the image inline, then a DPR-local cached copy has to be made for DPR to offer image viewing choices.

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Erik

nikkorwatcher Contributing Member • Posts: 684
Re: I see 3 different buttons

Erik Magnuson wrote:

JulesJ wrote:

I would still like the opportunity to remove an image I had posted later on.

Then post a true link where the user must click to see the image

If the thread goes on for any length of time I reckon it's 50/50 that some 'helpful' person will  write the bb code for you so you see the picture in the thread anyway. What dpr is saying is that once you post pictures, the are under the control of dpr alone. No wonder there are eminent posters who have absolutely no pictures to their accounts at all.

pavi1 Veteran Member • Posts: 6,867
Re: I see 3 different buttons

nikkorwatcher wrote:

Erik Magnuson wrote:

JulesJ wrote:

I would still like the opportunity to remove an image I had posted later on.

Then post a true link where the user must click to see the image

If the thread goes on for any length of time I reckon it's 50/50 that some 'helpful' person will write the bb code for you so you see the picture in the thread anyway. What dpr is saying is that once you post pictures, the are under the control of dpr alone. No wonder there are eminent posters who have absolutely no pictures to their accounts at all.

True, you put a picture on my computer, it is there until I remove it. By posting you give me the right to look as long as I like.

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WSSA #44

nikkorwatcher Contributing Member • Posts: 684
Re: I see 3 different buttons

Perhaps you thought that remark pithy. There is a difference between publication and private use and you wouldn't fool a court like that if you were in it. I promise.

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