GH3 & Auto-ISO

Started Jan 10, 2013 | Discussions
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NumberOne Veteran Member • Posts: 3,058
GH3 & Auto-ISO
2

I just discovered, unfortunately, that Auto-ISO doesn't work in Manual Mode, in other words, there's no way the camera calculates/inputs the correct ISO/Exposure if you dial your values for "Aperture + Shutter Speed"... (You can't also input the minimum value for it, AFAIK!)

What was Panasonic thinking when they designed the GH3's Firmware? Did they ever used a camera?

Some may not use Manual Mode a lot, but for many of us - myself included - this just might be a deal-breaker, specially if you think about action shots!

Is there any way around, or do you think this easy (and useful) function can be expected in a future Firmware update?

Best regards,
Pedro

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wildlifr
wildlifr Senior Member • Posts: 1,366
Re: GH3 & Auto-ISO

Are you sure? I thought the same thing about the E-M5, but discovered that it had to be enabled deep in the menus. Just a thought. I don't own the GH3, so I can't look into it personally.

Edit: Just did a quick search and it looks like you're right. I use manual mode with auto ISO all the time, so this would've been a deal breaker for me. I was seriously considering getting the GH3 instead of the E-M5.

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SHood Veteran Member • Posts: 4,589
Re: GH3 & Auto-ISO

NumberOne wrote:

I just discovered, unfortunately, that Auto-ISO doesn't work in Manual Mode, in other words, there's no way the camera calculates/inputs the correct ISO/Exposure if you dial your values for "Aperture + Shutter Speed"... (You can't also input the minimum value for it, AFAIK!)

What was Panasonic thinking when they designed the GH3's Firmware? Did they ever used a camera?

Some may not use Manual Mode a lot, but for many of us - myself included - this just might be a deal-breaker, specially if you think about action shots!

Is there any way around, or do you think this easy (and useful) function can be expected in a future Firmware update?

Best regards,
Pedro

Yes, this is a limitation with all Panasonic bodies.  Have not found a way to work around it yet.

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ryan2007 Forum Pro • Posts: 12,001
Re: GH3 & Auto-ISO
1

NumberOne wrote:

I just discovered, unfortunately, that Auto-ISO doesn't work in Manual Mode, in other words, there's no way the camera calculates/inputs the correct ISO/Exposure if you dial your values for "Aperture + Shutter Speed"... (You can't also input the minimum value for it, AFAIK!)

What was Panasonic thinking when they designed the GH3's Firmware? Did they ever used a camera?

Some may not use Manual Mode a lot, but for many of us - myself included - this just might be a deal-breaker, specially if you think about action shots!

Is there any way around, or do you think this easy (and useful) function can be expected in a future Firmware update?

Best regards,
Pedro

If you are in full manual perhaps the camera assumes Everything should be done manually. I would think if you want to go to the extent for manual exposure I would not want the camera to automatically set ISO. I would want full exposure control so I think the camera is good it does this.

I have not tried yet, but see if Intelligent ISO works as their are Two automatic ISO modes.  Either way, manual exposure would include and should include manual ISO control.

amtberg Veteran Member • Posts: 5,558
Re: GH3 & Auto-ISO
4

This is a monumentally stupid limitation.

SHood Veteran Member • Posts: 4,589
Re: GH3 & Auto-ISO
1

One possible option to get around this is set ISO to 200 and shoot only RAW. You should be able to push the exposure of the RAW up to the equivalent of ISO1600 and have the same results as shooting at ISO1600. The disadvantage of this approach is that you cannot easily review the images in-cameras if they are significantly underexposed.

I am trying to do this with my GH3 and 100-300 lens. Since I am only interesting in going up to ISO400 anways, it should be workable for me.  I rarely review my images in the cameras, waiting instead to import into lightroom.

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NumberOne OP Veteran Member • Posts: 3,058
Re: GH3 & Auto-ISO

ryan2007 wrote:

NumberOne wrote:

I just discovered, unfortunately, that Auto-ISO doesn't work in Manual Mode, in other words, there's no way the camera calculates/inputs the correct ISO/Exposure if you dial your values for "Aperture + Shutter Speed"... (You can't also input the minimum value for it, AFAIK!)

What was Panasonic thinking when they designed the GH3's Firmware? Did they ever used a camera?

Some may not use Manual Mode a lot, but for many of us - myself included - this just might be a deal-breaker, specially if you think about action shots!

Is there any way around, or do you think this easy (and useful) function can be expected in a future Firmware update?

Best regards,
Pedro

If you are in full manual perhaps the camera assumes Everything should be done manually. I would think if you want to go to the extent for manual exposure I would not want the camera to automatically set ISO. I would want full exposure control so I think the camera is good it does this.

For the full (manual) control you want you could (always) disable Auto-ISO for Manual Mode...

I have not tried yet, but see if Intelligent ISO works as their are Two automatic ISO modes. Either way, manual exposure would include and should include manual ISO control.

Very grateful if you could test and report back.

TIA,
Best regards,
Pedro

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wildlifr
wildlifr Senior Member • Posts: 1,366
Re: GH3 & Auto-ISO

No one's suggesting that manual ISO in manual mode shouldn't be available. We're suggesting that auto ISO in manual mode should be an option as it is on the E-M5 and I assume most DSLR's. In my case, for wildlife photography, I often don't have time to adjust ISO.

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Aleo Veuliah
Aleo Veuliah MOD Forum Pro • Posts: 14,628
Re: GH3 & Auto-ISO
1

SHood wrote:

NumberOne wrote:

I just discovered, unfortunately, that Auto-ISO doesn't work in Manual Mode, in other words, there's no way the camera calculates/inputs the correct ISO/Exposure if you dial your values for "Aperture + Shutter Speed"... (You can't also input the minimum value for it, AFAIK!)

What was Panasonic thinking when they designed the GH3's Firmware? Did they ever used a camera?

Some may not use Manual Mode a lot, but for many of us - myself included - this just might be a deal-breaker, specially if you think about action shots!

Is there any way around, or do you think this easy (and useful) function can be expected in a future Firmware update?

Best regards,
Pedro

Yes, this is a limitation with all Panasonic bodies. Have not found a way to work around it yet.

Or they do not want to do it. It is an easy thing to do in the firmware.

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exdeejjjaaaa
exdeejjjaaaa Veteran Member • Posts: 7,741
Re: GH3 & Auto-ISO

NumberOne wrote:

I just discovered,

as noted what you discovered was the situation for Panasonic cameras for many years...

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NumberOne OP Veteran Member • Posts: 3,058
Re: GH3 & Auto-ISO

exdeejjjaaaa wrote:

NumberOne wrote:

I just discovered,

as noted what you discovered was the situation for Panasonic cameras for many years...

...And seems to perpetuate for the years to come, or at least, on the last top of the line model!

Best regards,
Pedro

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mpgxsvcd Veteran Member • Posts: 8,092
Re: GH3 & Auto-ISO
2

There simply isn't a way to have auto ISO in manual mode with Panasonic cameras. The next closest mode to it would be Program priority on the LX7 which allows you to select a minimum shutter speed for Auto ISO. However, you still can not manually select a shutter speed and Aperture independently.

Panasonic's manual mode makes the assumption that you want to choose the exposure level yourself and not let the camera select it. Going by that theory Auto ISO would not be useful because it would not be able to know what exposure level you desire.

Panasonic needs to simply change the GH3 to assume that you want the camera to expose properly in manual mode and allow Auto ISO.

They also need to enable the Auto ISO low shutter speed limit from the LX7 on the GH3. That is a bigger omission in my opinion because they do it on their lower cameras but not on their high end camera.

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RicksAstro
RicksAstro Veteran Member • Posts: 3,561
Re: GH3 & Auto-ISO

wildlifr wrote:

No one's suggesting that manual ISO in manual mode shouldn't be available. We're suggesting that auto ISO in manual mode should be an option as it is on the E-M5 and I assume most DSLR's. In my case, for wildlife photography, I often don't have time to adjust ISO.

It's missing in a few DSLRs, most notably the Canon 5D Mark II.

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NumberOne OP Veteran Member • Posts: 3,058
Re: GH3 & Auto-ISO

RicksAstro wrote:

wildlifr wrote:

No one's suggesting that manual ISO in manual mode shouldn't be available. We're suggesting that auto ISO in manual mode should be an option as it is on the E-M5 and I assume most DSLR's. In my case, for wildlife photography, I often don't have time to adjust ISO.

It's missing in a few DSLRs, most notably the Canon 5D Mark II.

Canon's Auto-ISO implementation is almost useless, to say the least, and a good example of how you shouldn't implement it!

Best regards,
Pedro

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NumberOne OP Veteran Member • Posts: 3,058
Re: GH3 & Auto-ISO

wildlifr wrote:

Are you sure? I thought the same thing about the E-M5, but discovered that it had to be enabled deep in the menus. Just a thought. I don't own the GH3, so I can't look into it personally.

Edit: Just did a quick search and it looks like you're right. I use manual mode with auto ISO all the time, so this would've been a deal breaker for me. I was seriously considering getting the GH3 instead of the E-M5.

Please, somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but AFAIK, or at least from the E-M5 User guide - which I also read - you will have exactly the same problem regarding Auto-ISO on Manual Mode, regrettably!

Best regards,
Pedro

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jkrumm Veteran Member • Posts: 9,064
Re: GH3 & Auto-ISO

Auto-iso in manual on the eM-5 and other Oly cams is pretty useless since it forces you into a 0 exposure only. After I thought about it a while, what I would really like is what some other makes allow, setting a minimum shutter speed in Aperture mode with auto-iso. Seems like such a simple and useful feature. Perhaps a mass letter writing campaign could help.

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John Krumm
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SHood Veteran Member • Posts: 4,589
Re: GH3 & Auto-ISO
1

jkrumm wrote:

Auto-iso in manual on the eM-5 and other Oly cams is pretty useless since it forces you into a 0 exposure only. After I thought about it a while, what I would really like is what some other makes allow, setting a minimum shutter speed in Aperture mode with auto-iso. Seems like such a simple and useful feature. Perhaps a mass letter writing campaign could help.

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John Krumm
Juneau, AK

YES. That would be much preferred over even manual AUTO ISO. Surprisingly Panasonic does have a pseudo-minimum ISO in Aperture mode but it is tied to 2x the focal length that you are shooting at. With my 100-300 lens Panasonic uses 1/200s at 100mm and 1/500s at 200mm. It will drop to slower shutter speeds once you have hit the max ISO you have set with AUTO ISO. I presume other lenses work similarily. We just need a setting to control this ourselves. Seems simple enough.

ps. what cameras can do this now?

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Sean Nelson
Sean Nelson Forum Pro • Posts: 11,847
Re: GH3 & Auto-ISO
1

One of the problems here is historical/conceptual, IMHO.   The current convention for camera controls was inherited from film cameras for which there simply wasn't a sensitivity adjustment.  So we have:

  • "M" - you control EVERYTHING manually
  • "P" - the camera controls everything
  • "S" - you control the shutter speed and the camera chooses aperture and ISO
  • "A" - you control the aperture and the camera chooses the shutter speed and ISO.

The problem is that NumberOne wants to control TWO things (aperture and shutter speed) and let the camera control the third one.  That's just not the way the mode dial on almost all cameras works - it only allows you to choose any ONE exposure factor to prioritize.

This is why I'd love to see a camera with four dedicated dials, one for each of the primary exposure controls:

  • Shutter speed:  with positions for Bulb, all the standard speeds, plus "Auto"
  • Aperture:  with positions for all of the apertures plus "Auto"
  • ISO:  with positions for all the ISO settings plus "Auto"
  • EV:  -3 to +3 EV to adjust any of the other controls set to "Auto"

It seems to me that this would be an amazingly intuitive, no-brainer thing to do but none of the manufacturers seem to agree with me.   They're all intent on adhering to the archaic exposure modes we've inherited from the film era.

wildlifr
wildlifr Senior Member • Posts: 1,366
Re: GH3 & Auto-ISO
2

No, it can be enabled in the menus. But I agree with some of the other responses with regards to the desire to also be able to dial in some ev compensation. That would be great.

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SHood Veteran Member • Posts: 4,589
Re: GH3 & Auto-ISO

Sean Nelson wrote:

One of the problems here is historical/conceptual, IMHO. The current convention for camera controls was inherited from film cameras for which there simply wasn't a sensitivity adjustment. So we have:

  • "M" - you control EVERYTHING manually
  • "P" - the camera controls everything
  • "S" - you control the shutter speed and the camera chooses aperture and ISO
  • "A" - you control the aperture and the camera chooses the shutter speed and ISO.

The problem is that NumberOne wants to control TWO things (aperture and shutter speed) and let the camera control the third one. That's just not the way the mode dial on almost all cameras works - it only allows you to choose any ONE exposure factor to prioritize.

This is why I'd love to see a camera with four dedicated dials, one for each of the primary exposure controls:

  • Shutter speed: with positions for Bulb, all the standard speeds, plus "Auto"
  • Aperture: with positions for all of the apertures plus "Auto"
  • ISO: with positions for all the ISO settings plus "Auto"
  • EV: -3 to +3 EV to adjust any of the other controls set to "Auto"

It seems to me that this would be an amazingly intuitive, no-brainer thing to do but none of the manufacturers seem to agree with me. They're all intent on adhering to the archaic exposure modes we've inherited from the film era.

Your idea is interesting but would be hard to implement on many of the smaller bodies.  The NEX-7 tried to go this route with their NAVI system, although not quite what you are asking for.  Sony would likely be the only one willing to do this.

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