NX300 Official - See the News!

Started Jan 3, 2013 | Discussions
viking79
OP viking79 Forum Pro • Posts: 14,152
Re: NX300 Official - See the News! - what size files ?

jgardia wrote:

Unless you want lossy compression you aren't going to do much better than that. A RAW file is 12 bits and has an embedded JPEG. With no compression on your NX10 that is 14.6 MP * 12 bits = about 21 Megabytes plus maybe 1 or 2 MB for embedded JPEG. Say 2:3 lossless compression ratio puts it down around 14 MB, plus a low quality JPEG for review and you are up at probably 15 MB.

The 20 MP sensor is going to be 28 MB uncompressed before you had in the preview JPEG. This is not small, and not something you are going to be able to reduce much below 20 MB without lossy compression.

Hi Eric,

I have to politely disagree with you. I made some tests (with my NX10's raw files), and the Samsung raw files are embedding a full jpeg (3.5 to 6mb). The rest (about 22MB) is the 14.7mpix at 12 bits per pixel.

Thanks, I didn't realize the embedded JPEGs were so large, I think in the 20 MP cameras they use a reduced sized JPEG though (i.e. it isn't 20 MP).  I haven't actually measured how large the JPEG is.

You can do differential encoding (I tried it), and you can go to 15MB without any loss. Basically you save the difference between the pixels, instead of saving the absolute value. You can encode the difference in 1 byte per pixel if it fits, and when it doesn't you need 3 pixels. In my tests, you can fit the difference in 1 byte for over 99% of the pixels. The algorithm is super easy, and the concept is super old (I think from the 70s).

I was just saying lossless compressions for images are usually limited to saving around 33% (very rough, and depends on what you are shooting). Like in your example you are going from about 22 MB down to 15 MB (about 33% smaller). If you want to save more space than that, you usually have to go to a lossy compression and I think most like Nikon minimally clip some of the highlight data since it isn't as noticeable.  So I think we agree here.

Thanks,

Eric

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Knallberto Veteran Member • Posts: 5,478
Re: Only the best composers know where to steal their themes

I think Samsung (or SONY) have MORE innovative ideas than Canon/Nikon together.

Knallberto Veteran Member • Posts: 5,478
Re: NX300 Official - See the News!
1

YES! Cameras without viewer (and moveable display) are T-O-Y-S !

NX300 is a nice toy ... usable, but 10 steps far from perfect.

Knallberto Veteran Member • Posts: 5,478
Re: NX300 Official - See the News!

That's a toy for a toy, no viewer.

whtchocla7e Contributing Member • Posts: 928
Re: NX300 Official - See the News!
1

Yup, indeed a toy.

The NX100 was a good first step in the right direction and then they pulled a 180* and started catering to the gadget users... Too bad because there's good glass begging to be used.

Desverger Regular Member • Posts: 124
Re: NX300 Official - See the News!
1

Knallberto wrote:

YES! Cameras without viewer (and moveable display) are T-O-Y-S !

NX300 is a nice toy ... usable, but 10 steps far from perfect.

I find posts like this to be ridiculous. Photography itself has so many variables and factors, it's really impossible for anyone to make a camera that's perfect for everyone. This camera might seem like crap to you, but there's probably plenty of people out there who will love it. Everyone has their own set of criteria when shopping for a camera. If everyone had the same criteria, all cameras would be the same. I for one care less about the EVF or built-in flash. In fact, I consider Samsung's 3D implementation to be quite clever and it's gonna be tough to beat.

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Desverger Regular Member • Posts: 124
Re: NX300 Official - See the News!

I'm looking at some of the photos and noticed that the PSAM dial lacks a movie position. Also, "Smart" seems to be renamed "Auto". There's also a mode with the letter "s" superimposed on a black box, in between the the "i" and "Wifi" modes. I wonder what that is. I imagine that with the dedicated video record button, a Movie mode was somewhat redundant. Or is that what that new "s" mode is all about? Curious.

I rarely use the video feature, so I can't remember off hand if there was any advantage to a dedicated movie mode.

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Knallberto Veteran Member • Posts: 5,478
Re: NX300 Official - See the News!

That's the reason why I have more cameras then fingers&toes together

for 3D

Fuji W1,  Fuji W3, Lumix3D with Lumix&NEX, Sony TD10 (reeeeaaal 3D movie 2x 1920x1080), Sony Bloggie3D, LG P920, Sharp SH80F, paired IXUS100, Loreo3D for all cameras  ... and each one eyed camera (look my photos, 85% of my photos - since 2 years - are 3D)

Mankind "uses" 3D since millions of years, only flat guys make flat photos. Without 3D no survive would have been possible.

Desverger Regular Member • Posts: 124
Re: NX300 Official - See the News!

I think 3D can be cool. What we need are cheap 3D paper/printers. For those who like to print their images, as opposed to viewing them on a some imaging device, 3D just isn't a real option.

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Knallberto Veteran Member • Posts: 5,478
Re: NX300 Official - See the News!

There exist since long time print options - either red/green (ill, sick!) or parallax prints on parallax papers. BOTH are s.h.i.t

I have excellent output devices (they are not expensive): active & passive TVs and monitors, all 1920x1080,  also 3D tablet 1280x720 and 3D beamer 1280x720 (I do not need 3D beamer with 1920x1080 .. price € 799). I do not need printed trash.

timedrun Contributing Member • Posts: 683
Re: Only the best composers know where to steal their themes

Ralf Bauer wrote:

Most today's Dslr camera designs all look identical and same

to each other in today's dslr market.

@ yonsarh

All cars do somehow look like one another ....

I wanted to point out that Samsung engineers perform with virtuosity and like maestros in merging an copying the USPs of other players.

In music we say .... Only the best composers know where to steal their themes.

ralf, thank you for displaying about the most ridiculous level of bias that i have ever seen. green rosettta in the post son. next level of tiny mindedness.

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crsantin Contributing Member • Posts: 563
Re: NX300 Official - well ....

A few improvements here but nothing to get really excited about.  Samsung has not kept up with their competitors and this NX300 is merely a modest improvement on an already lacking system.  No evf option, no flash system, no new lenses...there is no reason for a photographer looking to expand his/her horizons to stick with Samsung, and no reason for users of other systems to move to Samsung.  Samsung continues to disappoint.  I still use my NX100 once in a while but I've moved on to other options, still keeping hope that Samsung would wake up.  Maybe they are a hit in Korea, but here in North America it is more or less a dead system.

tecnoworld
tecnoworld Veteran Member • Posts: 7,208
Re: NX300 Official - well ....

Which system would you suggest as a mirrorless camera?

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Kuturgan
Kuturgan Regular Member • Posts: 495
Re: NX300 Official - See the News!

Finally a brilliant camera from Samsung!!!

But for the moment it is a little bit more expensive for me. And second point it is not built on Android platform as many of us were expecting. But any way it is a GREAT camera to use and to watch.

If price will drop in a couple of months I'll sell my nex-5n et get this beauty NX300

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supeyugin1 Contributing Member • Posts: 858
Re: NX300 Official - See the News!

kennethfong wrote:

105 PDAF + 247 CDAF points? Is this confirmed? If this is true on paper, in practice this should be real fast...

supeyugin1 wrote:

105 PDAF + 247 CDAF points. That becomes interesting! Maybe they are right about fastest AF on the market?

I found it here:

http://www.techhive.com/article/2023653/samsung-announces-fast-focusing-nx300-mirrorless-camera-and-2d-3d-lens.html

According to Samsung, the NX300 boasts a hybrid contrast-/phase-detection autofocus system driven by 105 phase-detection points and 247 contrast-detection points on the camera's new 20.3-megapixel APS-C CMOS sensor

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NXism Regular Member • Posts: 177
Re: NX300 Official - See the News!

whtchocla7e wrote:

Yup, indeed a toy.

The NX100 was a good first step in the right direction and then they pulled a 180* and started catering to the gadget users... Too bad because there's good glass begging to be used.

I hope you're still using your NX100 then, it remains a decent camera. I too haven't seen a compelling reason to move on from my NX10 despite more recent models, Samsung or otherwise.

wictred Senior Member • Posts: 1,195
Re: NX300 Official - See the News!

So basically they did some improvements and fixed things that could have been solved already in the existing NX200 and NX210.

they could have fixed menu access during writing in the NX200 and NX210 and they could have offered a better solution for manual focusing (e.g. moveable zoom area). but they didn't. so if these things bother you then just go ahead and buy the new NX300.

I guess the NX400 will have an EVF then, right?

I am not impressed. Actually I'm glad I have switched systems ... more than ever before.

But maybe they'll get some things right.

Maybe they'll get a proper PDAF system and maybe they'll get rid of the posterisation and the circular banding.

But even then I'm pretty sure they'll screw up somehow.
I'm curious - what will it be this time?

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jj74e Senior Member • Posts: 1,633
Re: NX300 Official - well ....
2

crsantin wrote:

A few improvements here but nothing to get really excited about. Samsung has not kept up with their competitors and this NX300 is merely a modest improvement on an already lacking system. No evf option, no flash system, no new lenses...there is no reason for a photographer looking to expand his/her horizons to stick with Samsung, and no reason for users of other systems to move to Samsung. Samsung continues to disappoint. I still use my NX100 once in a while but I've moved on to other options, still keeping hope that Samsung would wake up. Maybe they are a hit in Korea, but here in North America it is more or less a dead system.

The number of people who really require EVFs should just buy a camera with an EVF- if it's as necessary as people make it sound, then they're probably going to leave the EVF accessory on most of the time, and if they're going to do that, just buy a model with it built in. On dpreview an EVF seems absolute but dpreview users are a small portion of the overall camera market. I'm not saying Samsung shouldn't come out with a good EVF at some point, but to me and many others it's not a decision-breaking product.

Samsung does have a few flashes that are good enough for me, but while they lack a stronger assortment of native flashes, you can still use other companies' flashes if you need to

Didn't they just come out with the 12-24mm and 45mm? The former btw they were very quick in making available in stores. And they already have more native lenses than everyone except M4/3

And what is the NX300 really lacking, since you make it sound like it is still playing catchup? The NX210's main flaws were the slow buffer write times, large RAW files, and slightly less quality high ISO images- all things that could be remediated in the NX300 but you are writing it off before knowing.

Given, I'm not saying there isn't a chance for the nx300 to be another disappointment with the same major flaws, but there's no reason to be so negative off the bat.

whtchocla7e Contributing Member • Posts: 928
Re: NX300 Official - well ....

jj74e wrote:

The number of people who really require EVFs should just buy a camera with an EVF

Except there isn't one within the NX system (except for the NX100).

The double digit series just don't do anything for those of us who are not interested in a mini-dslr.

Desverger Regular Member • Posts: 124
Re: NX300 Official - See the News!

wictred wrote:

they could have fixed menu access during writing in the NX200 and NX210 and they could have offered a better solution for manual focusing (e.g. moveable zoom area). but they didn't. so if these things bother you then just go ahead and buy the new NX300.

The NX1000 has a moveable zoom area. You need to have DMF enabled and AF Area set to Selection AF. Then hit the OK button to move selection point around the screen. Then press the shutter button down half so the AF kicks in. Then you can manually focus and the focus zooms into your selection area for MF. I guess that since you don't have a selection area for MF this technique doesn't work.

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