RX1 aperture leaf shutter blades - defective or within spec?

Started Dec 28, 2012 | Discussions
jwocky Regular Member • Posts: 122
RX1 aperture leaf shutter blades - defective or within spec?

Maybe I've developed some paranoia from reading about other RX1 owner's non-circular leaf shutter blades, but I've taken some photos of mine at 5.6, 8 and 11.

Would appreciate some input/opinions into whether mine are defective or within reasonable spec?

Thanks!

F/5.6

F/8

F/11

Sony RX1
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Donald Chin
Donald Chin Veteran Member • Posts: 5,757
Your RX1 aperture blades is in good shape (n/t)
OP jwocky Regular Member • Posts: 122
Re: Your RX1 aperture blades is in good shape (n/t)

Thanks.  Woulda been nice if it looked fully circular all the way down to the smallest apertures though.

But I may not even have noticed if others didn't bring it up.

DFPanno
DFPanno Veteran Member • Posts: 5,550
What makes you say that? Do you have the spec?

You might be right but on what basis would you suggest it is OK?

Curious.

OP jwocky Regular Member • Posts: 122
Re: What makes you say that? Do you have the spec?

Hrm... any others out there have a second opinion as to whether the aperture blades look reasonable or defective here?

Donald Chin
Donald Chin Veteran Member • Posts: 5,757
Re: What makes you say that? Do you have the spec?
1

DFPanno wrote:

You might be right but on what basis would you suggest it is OK?

Curious.

Just basic common sense



zgeist Junior Member • Posts: 47
Re: What makes you say that? Do you have the spec?
1

DFPanno wrote:

You might be right but on what basis would you suggest it is OK?

Curious.

Because anyone who has owned any camera equipment previous to the RX1 that allowed manual control of the aperture, would know that there are very very few lenses that have perfect aperture blades, and it has no noticeable or measurable effect on the photo. If it did, you would be able to see the edges of the blades on the bokeh halos.

And for crying out loud please, PLEASE people, stop calling them "leaf shutter" blades. It's not the leaf shutter. It's not even a shutter! If you own a $2800 camera, you should at least take some effort to know the basic camera parts!!!

Jeez, we need to have this topic as a sticky post in this forum.

Sean_Jayhawk
Sean_Jayhawk Veteran Member • Posts: 7,439
Re: What makes you say that? Do you have the spec?

zgeist wrote:

DFPanno wrote:

You might be right but on what basis would you suggest it is OK?

Curious.

Because anyone who has owned any camera equipment previous to the RX1 that allowed manual control of the aperture, would know that there are very very few lenses that have perfect aperture blades, and it has no noticeable or measurable effect on the photo. If it did, you would be able to see the edges of the blades on the bokeh halos.

I can see the misshaped aperture blades' shape in my bokeh halos starting at f/2.2 where the non circular shape starts. I posted in another thread today. I also took a macro shot of my X-Mas tree at f/2.8 and see every single bokeh halo having the same non circular misshaped appearance as the aperture blades.

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zgeist Junior Member • Posts: 47
Re: What makes you say that? Do you have the spec?
1

sean lancaster wrote:

zgeist wrote:

DFPanno wrote:

You might be right but on what basis would you suggest it is OK?

Curious.

Because anyone who has owned any camera equipment previous to the RX1 that allowed manual control of the aperture, would know that there are very very few lenses that have perfect aperture blades, and it has no noticeable or measurable effect on the photo. If it did, you would be able to see the edges of the blades on the bokeh halos.

I can see the misshaped aperture blades' shape in my bokeh halos starting at f/2.2 where the non circular shape starts. I posted in another thread today. I also took a macro shot of my X-Mas tree at f/2.8 and see every single bokeh halo having the same non circular misshaped appearance as the aperture blades.

Ok, I should rephrase - if one thinks they have defective aperture blades and that the photo quality is being degraded as a result, then return the camera. But I don't believe anyone will find any camera (lens) that will consistently have perfect blades.  Not that I've seen anyhow.  I've used Nikon, Zeiss, and Leica lenses.  I have one lens that's perfect.

I think part of the problem is that with a camera this expensive and this small, people are going to be going over it with a giant magnifying glass because they expect perfection. The irony is that if people went over their DSLR lenses, they would find the same thing. But they don't for some odd reason.

DFPanno
DFPanno Veteran Member • Posts: 5,550
Hmmmmmm......

I like to think of myself as someone with "basic common sense" and I think I have the professional track record to back that up.

You have no idea as to whether that is to spec or not and neither do I.

It has very little to do with commons sense and a lot to do with technical expertise.

packlite
packlite Regular Member • Posts: 114
Re: RX1 aperture leaf shutter blades - defective or within spec?

jwocky wrote:

Maybe I've developed some paranoia from reading about other RX1 owner's non-circular leaf shutter blades, but I've taken some photos of mine at 5.6, 8 and 11.

Would appreciate some input/opinions into whether mine are defective or within reasonable spec?

Thanks!

I've been interested in this topic since it began. Based on my observations thus far, the shape of your aperture blades is about as good as it gets. I've seen worse examples already posted in this forum. Beyond f/11 mine (and others I've seen) gets worse and clearly are not "near perfect" circular, as Sony has stated. Have you noticed that in some RX1 photos posted in this forum that OOF lights do not appear as round as one would expect. Some here pooh-pooh this concern and perhaps had Sony not said that the aperture blades should be "near perfect circle f/2 - f/22" this concern may not have surfaced. However, for me, I'm stretching a bit financially to have this camera and I want it to be the best it can be, so ...

Anyway, this camera is the P&S I've so long desired for my kind of low light photography, so rather than return it or exchange it, hoping for a better copy, I am sending it to the Laredo service center for inspection and sensor cleaning. While it is there, I've also requested that they inspect the aperture blades to ensure they are as should be.

Here is what I've requested:

SHUTTER BLADES: as stated in the Sony marketing materials, the features for the Sony RX-1 Include:

Nine aperture blades

Nine aperture blades form a nearly perfect circle throughout the normally used aperture range of F2 to F22, resulting in background defocusing that is smooth and genuinely beautiful.

I question whether or not my aperture blades meet this description, so could you please verify that the blades on my RX-1 form a nearly perfect circle at every aperture – f/2 thru f/22. Thanks!

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DFPanno
DFPanno Veteran Member • Posts: 5,550
Hmmmmmmm II............
1

zgeist wrote:

DFPanno wrote:

You might be right but on what basis would you suggest it is OK?

Curious.

Because anyone who has owned any camera equipment previous to the RX1 that allowed manual control of the aperture, would know that there are very very few lenses that have perfect aperture blades, and it has no noticeable or measurable effect on the photo. If it did, you would be able to see the edges of the blades on the bokeh halos.

That's not the point.  No one needs a "guestimate" from self-appointed experts.

Most of the lenses I own allow such control and none have that appearence.

That's not to say that I think there is a problem.

And for crying out loud please, PLEASE people, stop calling them "leaf shutter" blades. It's not the leaf shutter. It's not even a shutter! If you own a $2800 camera, you should at least take some effort to know the basic camera parts!!!

Jeez, we need to have this topic as a sticky post in this forum.

Spare us the arrogance and the caps.  We already have enough on the board.

If you find yourself with knowledge that others lack teach them instead of demeaning them.

Incidently; what people chose to learn or not learn with their $2,800 is up to them; not you.

zgeist Junior Member • Posts: 47
Re: Hmmmmmmm II............

DFPanno wrote:

zgeist wrote:

DFPanno wrote:

You might be right but on what basis would you suggest it is OK?

Curious.

Because anyone who has owned any camera equipment previous to the RX1 that allowed manual control of the aperture, would know that there are very very few lenses that have perfect aperture blades, and it has no noticeable or measurable effect on the photo. If it did, you would be able to see the edges of the blades on the bokeh halos.

That's not the point. No one needs a "guestimate" from self-appointed experts.

Most of the lenses I own allow such control and none have that appearence.

That's not to say that I think there is a problem.

And for crying out loud please, PLEASE people, stop calling them "leaf shutter" blades. It's not the leaf shutter. It's not even a shutter! If you own a $2800 camera, you should at least take some effort to know the basic camera parts!!!

Jeez, we need to have this topic as a sticky post in this forum.

Spare us the arrogance and the caps. We already have enough on the board.

If you find yourself with knowledge that others lack teach them instead of demeaning them.

Incidently; what people chose to learn or not learn with their $2,800 is up to them; not you.

You're right and I sincerely apologize to anyone I offended. I didn't mean to come across like that but couldn't edit my post anymore. I was just frustrated because this topic has come up so many times now, I'm just wondering if anyone's reading the previous posts.

DFPanno
DFPanno Veteran Member • Posts: 5,550
No problemo.............

Pro tip:

Don't let the internet frustrate you.

(especially camera forums for God's sake)

Happy Holidays.

tesilab
tesilab Veteran Member • Posts: 3,004
I believe the real problem is...

Sony's *marketing* materials have serious defects.

Maybe some have unusually deformed blades. Fuji had real problems with blades--stuck sometimes. For those of us with blades that are really strangely shaped only after f/11, those are apertures you should mostly only use in a pinch, this lens is at its most fabulous  at f/4. F/5.6, fantastic at f/2.8,f/8, and only terrific at f/2 and f/11 (in terms of micro contrast, not bokeh).

The only thing that prevents this camera's price being justified by the lens alone *with its blades* is the fact that it's permanently stuck on a very capable well-built FF camera. Let's all hope the total package gives years and years of trouble free service.

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packlite
packlite Regular Member • Posts: 114
Re: Non-Circular Aperture Blades Sticky Post ?

zgeist wrote:

Jeez, we need to have this topic as a sticky post in this forum.

I second your suggestion. This topic will keep coming up. If it is a problem, it will be revealed and hopefully dealt with. If it is not a problem, the chatter will dissipate. But we shouldn't get frustrated and call it a non-issue just yet.

This kind of dialogue is what uncovered and ultimately got Fuji to acknowledge and fix the sticky blade problem with the X100. I was a very-early adopter on that one and was involved in that process as well.

Also, as I stated earlier in this thread, I've sent my camera to the Laredo lab to have it cleaned and inspected. I want it to be up-to-spec (whatever that really means) and the best it can be before I'm satisfied.

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Docno Veteran Member • Posts: 4,874
I'm sorry, but are people going crazy?
1

Seems like every few days there's a new ostensible 'issue' with the RX1. AF, aperture blades, battery drain, etc. Maybe people are expecting perfection because of the price. I'm not sure. I do know that every time a new (esp groundbreaking) camera comes out, there's a lot of extra scrutiny and even paranoia. But this starting to get a little crazy. Get out and start shooting and stop worrying (and share your shots with those of us who still can't buy one of these beauties)....

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DFPanno
DFPanno Veteran Member • Posts: 5,550
Have to disagree...........
1

Docno wrote:

Seems like every few days there's a new ostensible 'issue' with the RX1. AF, aperture blades, battery drain, etc. Maybe people are expecting perfection because of the price. I'm not sure. I do know that every time a new (esp groundbreaking) camera comes out, there's a lot of extra scrutiny and even paranoia. But this starting to get a little crazy. Get out and start shooting and stop worrying (and share your shots with those of us who still can't buy one of these beauties)....

If there are problems it is appropriate and predictable that they would come to the fore right about now.

IF they do in fact represent problems they should be discussed now and managed as soon as possible.

Owners will want to send them for repair or replacement before the clock runs down.

Those considering the camera want to know what our liabilities might be.

Discouraging such posts by likening them to "craziness" isn't what these folks need and advice such as "just go out and shoot" doesn't address the possibility that some are trying to come to terms with real problems.

You might feel the same once you put down your $3000.00.

That said it is possible to generate a bit of hysteria.

If SONY wants to play in the luxury market then it has to meet the demands and concerns of those you find there.

For those that don't like that kind of work there is the "value" market.

teseg
teseg Senior Member • Posts: 2,210
Re: RX1 aperture leaf shutter blades - defective or within spec?

To get to the bottom of the story I just sent a note to Zeiss North America to get their input on what is "nearly round". With the holidays and corporate relationships between Zeiss and Sony and the Lawyers I do not anticipate a response for several weeks or longer. I don't think the back-and-forths by forum members will drive any conclusions.

I know Sony determined my lens needed replaced after going to Laredo for spots and an aperture circle assessment. Not sure what caused the lens replacement determination (for all I know the technician broke the lens removing it from the body). Because the replacement lens is on back order I was just informed Sony will be over-nighting me a new replacement camera mid-next week (due to the holidays).

While it has taken me having to be persistent with calls to Sony, at this point I am ok with the outcome... God forbid my replacement camera has spots (I may not go to f22 to check). My aperture blades were not much different than OP, so I will not let that concern me if the new camera is similar until such time it is verified that it is some kind of recall (like) item, because clearly the result seen on these forums is widespread... and of the thousands of pictures taken by an RX1 posted on the web I have seen only 1 image where the out of round aperture circle was at all evident if the picture was looked at closely.

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packlite
packlite Regular Member • Posts: 114
Re: I'm sorry, but are people going crazy?

Docno wrote:

Seems like every few days there's a new ostensible 'issue' with the RX1. AF, aperture blades, battery drain, etc. Maybe people are expecting perfection because of the price. I'm not sure. I do know that every time a new (esp groundbreaking) camera comes out, there's a lot of extra scrutiny and even paranoia. But this starting to get a little crazy. Get out and start shooting and stop worrying (and share your shots with those of us who still can't buy one of these beauties)....

You may not realize that you are speaking in a condescending manner, but you are nevertheless doing so.

Your usage of the word "ostensible" implies that you think there are not issues worth noting and that anyone who does is pretending or looking for troubles that don't exist. At least, that's my understanding of the word and the context in which you used it. I'm not attempting to make you the subject, mind you, just getting around to explaining why I disagree with your opinion.

I cannot afford a closet full of expensive cameras, only one. I want to make sure it is what Sony says it is and I am not convinced that the camera that I purchased matches the description that Sony has given. I'm not inventing anything, only asking questions, as are other folks. Again, in my opinion, if a person wants to throw down $3000 and not question the results, then so be it. Many of us are not in that category. Is it crazy to be prudent, to be careful, to ask questions, to feel comfortable with our purchase? I don't think so.

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