30 new lenses added in one go to the m4/3 system...

Started Dec 23, 2012 | Discussions
amalric
amalric Forum Pro • Posts: 10,839
30 new lenses added in one go to the m4/3 system...

Thirty 4/3 lenses, mostly HQ zooms, to be used at their native speed by the coming Pro OM-D, by the end of 2013.

According to the rumors here, and according to 'DSLR Magazine', quite a serious site interacting with OLY's HQ:

http://www.43rumors.com/more-info-about-the-high-end-olympus-cameras-it-is-an-omd/

Sems weird that nobody has even started a discussion here, or haven't I noticed?

The big question, methinks, is if the lenses will work only with the new camera, or if the adapter will be sold separately, and work with Panny too.

Although not everybody might be interested in using heavy, big zooms, the news could affect at least 2 forums, 1022, and 1041, by introducing different patterns of usage.

Forums' segmentation might be affected too in 2013. Although m4/3 as a system is to be boosted quite a bit.

4/3 dSLR bodies are to be buried, but the lenses live on in m4/3!

Am.

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Zoeff Regular Member • Posts: 141
Re: 30 new lenses added in one go to the m4/3 system...
1

There were 2 other threads about this IIRC, but not a lot of people replied so it got buried quite quickly.

Still, this deserves more attention.

duckling Senior Member • Posts: 1,765
Re: 30 new lenses added in one go to the m4/3 system...

Once this camera is on the market, moreover if the adapter turns up to be backwards compatible, there will be only one system. A camera system is defined only by the lenses it supports.

That rumor is good news not only for m4/3 users but also, perhaps even more so for 4/3 users. I own both so it wouldn't affect me much.

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rrr_hhh Veteran Member • Posts: 6,022
Re: 30 new lenses added in one go to the m4/3 system...
6

amalric wrote:

Thirty 4/3 lenses, mostly HQ zooms, to be used at their native speed by the coming Pro OM-D, by the end of 2013.

According to the rumors here, and according to 'DSLR Magazine', quite a serious site interacting with OLY's HQ:

http://www.43rumors.com/more-info-about-the-high-end-olympus-cameras-it-is-an-omd/

Sems weird that nobody has even started a discussion here, or haven't I noticed?

The big question, methinks, is if the lenses will work only with the new camera, or if the adapter will be sold separately, and work with Panny too.

Although not everybody might be interested in using heavy, big zooms, the news could affect at least 2 forums, 1022, and 1041, by introducing different patterns of usage.

Forums' segmentation might be affected too in 2013. Although m4/3 as a system is to be boosted quite a bit.

4/3 dSLR bodies are to be buried, but the lenses live on in m4/3!

This is mainly of interest for 4/3 users. I'm not really interested in getting big heavy 4/3 zooms : what attracts me in MFT is to have a small system. I'm more interested in getting high IQ lenses in the native MFT format than adapting bigger ones. I do already have big Canon L lenses, if I want a big system, I will just upgrade my olding 5D body.

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amalric
OP amalric Forum Pro • Posts: 10,839
Re: 30 new lenses added in one go to the m4/3 system...

duckling wrote:

Once this camera is on the market, moreover if the adapter turns up to be backwards compatible, there will be only one system. A camera system is defined only by the lenses it supports.

That rumor is good news not only for m4/3 users but also, perhaps even more so for 4/3 users. I own both so it wouldn't affect me much.

Backwards compatibility is key, indeed. But there are other aspects. Those are fast zooms with no SW correction, so potentially the best.

How do they compare with the resolution of the new m4/3 primes? And with m4/3 zooms' prices?

They'll need a bigger camera for sure to handle them. How will the combo compared with the rumoured FF NEX by the end of 2013, if they have the same size?

It will be quite a test of the system's potential...

Am.

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duckling Senior Member • Posts: 1,765
Re: 30 new lenses added in one go to the m4/3 system...

amalric wrote:

Backwards compatibility is key, indeed. But there are other aspects. Those are fast zooms with no SW correction, so potentially the best.

Yes. My own experience supports that suggestion. The 11-22 and 12-60 have better corners than m4/3 wides.

How do they compare with the resolution of the new m4/3 primes? And with m4/3 zooms' prices?

They compare favorably, I think. HG and SHG zooms resolve better than m4/3 zooms. HG zooms are not that expensive either: a m4/3 equivalent of the 14-54 would cost twice as much (and it does).

They'll need a bigger camera for sure to handle them. How will the combo compared with the rumoured FF NEX by the end of 2013, if they have the same size?

An FF NEX would be good for mounting old manual lenses. Native lenses will be enormous and edge-challanged. NEX is bad engineering around a good sensor. Enlarging the sensor even further will make it even worse. OTOH 4/3 zooms like 12-60 mounted on an OM-1-like body won't feel too awkward and will fulfill the IQ potential of the cameras.

It will be quite a test of the system's potential...

I agree. I'm not too optimistic as to the popularity of this camera (or of the chances 4/3 lenses make a comeback).

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Rriley
Rriley Forum Pro • Posts: 21,846
Re: 30 new lenses added in one go to the m4/3 system...

amalric wrote:

duckling wrote:

Once this camera is on the market, moreover if the adapter turns up to be backwards compatible, there will be only one system. A camera system is defined only by the lenses it supports.

That rumor is good news not only for m4/3 users but also, perhaps even more so for 4/3 users. I own both so it wouldn't affect me much.

Backwards compatibility is key, indeed. But there are other aspects. Those are fast zooms with no SW correction, so potentially the best.

biding my time on this, I think it requires 'special camera connections' to achieve what is needed, which sounds like a no. Although lens adaption is clearly a part of it, it isnt all about an adapter in that sense, which is why in the general sense we are talking about a camera not an adapter.

It may actually go back to this patent filed in April 2012 for release in Nov 22 2012, uncovered by the intrepid Egami
Patent for the mount adapter is required for OLYMPUS AF and anti-vibration
this is an active mount with piezoelectric actuators and the idea is analogous to my own sensor 'wobble' I described some time ago. Although in some ways I still like mine better.

while this would necessarily be a EVF mirrorless body deployed with a mFT mount, it 'sounds' like it can have a more-or-less native 43rds mount, and hence gives access to both suites of lenses. Not much not to like about that

How do they compare with the resolution of the new m4/3 primes? And with m4/3 zooms' prices?

I would think other than 7-14/4, SHG zooms such as 14-35/2 and 35-100/2 would be at least as good as the best mFT primes, but my expectation is perhaps slightly better. But then these arent cheap kit

They'll need a bigger camera for sure to handle them.

the expectation is that this camera is between EM5 and E5

How will the combo compared with the rumoured FF NEX by the end of 2013, if they have the same size?

I think again it will be about lenses, not that Sony dont have nice lenses I quite like some of them and they do have a really nice build quality, but again in their useful sizes they arent cheap and the lineup is always going to be substantially less in scope and availability than the axis of mirrorless systems, micro FT

It will be quite a test of the system's potential...

Am.

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amalric
OP amalric Forum Pro • Posts: 10,839
Re: 30 new lenses added in one go to the m4/3 system...
1

I am not so sure that a device limited to a camera only would boost the sales of 4/3 lenses.

Moreover a proprietary device wouldn't be much welcome here.

I do agree with an earlier answer that 4/3 lenses being telecentric have better performance at the edges, that is why I keep the 'old' 9-18. Probably CDAF compatible 4/3 lenses can be made to move faster with a faster sampling rate anyway.

As for the NEX FF project, it will be interesting to see how the solve the bad edges problem and the colour bleeding, so again m4/3 will still thrive - if its resolution across the frame is competitive.

Always good to know that investment is not going to the dogs

Am.

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Rriley
Rriley Forum Pro • Posts: 21,846
Re: 30 new lenses added in one go to the m4/3 system...

amalric wrote:

I am not so sure that a device limited to a camera only would boost the sales of 4/3 lenses.

Ive been wondering what they would do if a particular 43rds lens had an unavailable status, besides theres plenty of scope for me to be wrong as it stands

Moreover a proprietary device wouldn't be much welcome here.

I do agree with an earlier answer that 4/3 lenses being telecentric have better performance at the edges, that is why I keep the 'old' 9-18. Probably CDAF compatible 4/3 lenses can be made to move faster with a faster sampling rate anyway.

well it always seems like cameras are continually underfunded with computing speed and RAM, however

Without using the phasing principle that has already been used elsewhere, the issue entire is that pre-movement cdAF only has one data set to work with. Being that moving the lens focus mechanism is going to be slower than using actuators. Introducing another data set at a staged distance from the first requires another physical interruption of some kind.I can think of 4 ways that can occur.

1) Im not confident it could be done with a retractable lens, but a simple clear retractable flat glass would work as it would increase the physical distance of the optical path as long as the interrupter is in the light path by virtue of its refractive index profile. This then allows the static position contrast sample and a longer focus sample. Either a linear drive or a rotary type mechanism could be utilised, but rotary would have to be able to reference in between video frames, the latter having full time pdAF during video.

2) In hunting other patents it has been noticed they have been looking at a group of different FL microlenses, each creating one of 3 focussing positions. I guess that assumes that they have 3x the AF pixels. This already seems problematical with one set, 3x might be a burden

3/4) The only other way is to alter the distance relationship between the sensor and the lens, which the previous patent I presented attempts to do, and what my 'wobble' proposal sought to do. Moving to another distance relationship establishes another data set from which the variance in contrast can be analysed and plotted, determining where a lens is to travel to assume focus thus speeding its course.

2ii) The issue with microlenses is, the minuteness of such a design and its inclusion into the sensor assembly chain, more especially if you are not a sensor manufacturer. The wiring of same doesnt present any unusual problem.

3/4ii) The issue with physical movements is in being able to confidently restore the intended focus position at exactly the right register. And herein you have flexible electrical connections to consider, b/se they will have a limited cycle life. I can only guess that this makes movement at the mount a better proposition than at the sensor, but then, they have an established track record of reliability with other sensor movements involved with IS, which would seem not too dissimilar.

As for the NEX FF project, it will be interesting to see how the solve the bad edges problem and the colour bleeding, so again m4/3 will still thrive - if its resolution across the frame is competitive.

they have the resources to improve microlenses, whether or not that is enough remains to be seen

Always good to know that investment is not going to the dogs

Am.

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amalric
OP amalric Forum Pro • Posts: 10,839
Re: 30 new lenses added in one go to the m4/3 system...

Seems strange to me that so few care not only about the 30 4/3 lenses but also the new Pro OM-D.

Has  here been some miscalculation by Oly?

Am.

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Tim in upstate NY
Tim in upstate NY Veteran Member • Posts: 7,120
Re: 30 new lenses added in one go to the m4/3 system...

rrr_hhh wrote:

This is mainly of interest for 4/3 users. I'm not really interested in getting big heavy 4/3 zooms : what attracts me in MFT is to have a small system. I'm more interested in getting high IQ lenses in the native MFT format than adapting bigger ones. I do already have big Canon L lenses, if I want a big system, I will just upgrade my olding 5D body.

. . . I agree. This issue of using legacy four thirds zooms is of little interest to those of us (the overwhelming majority) who came to m4/3 from the other formats. When I sold off my L primes, it was with the knowledge that there's no going back. Maybe the 1022 forum is the best place for these backward compatibility issues? Just a thought.

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fermy Veteran Member • Posts: 3,168
Re: 30 new lenses added in one go to the m4/3 system...

Potential addition of HQ 4/3 lenses should be interesting to those clamoring for quality fast zooms or long teles and of course those that hold on to 4/3 lenses. However, this is waporware so far, when the camera is there there will be something to discuss.

Rriley
Rriley Forum Pro • Posts: 21,846
Re: 30 new lenses added in one go to the m4/3 system...

amalric wrote:

Seems strange to me that so few care not only about the 30 4/3 lenses but also the new Pro OM-D.

Has here been some miscalculation by Oly?

I cant speak for 1041, too many LOONs to figure out the real dynamics

for 1022 it is an unusual model, thats always a little tough
theyve lost all hope of Ex, that isnt going to be easy either. Especially since Olympus obviously had the R&D to be looking at other designs, such as this and the rumoured larger sensor camera.

I must say I have some sympathy for this, I mean why not just give them their SLR, cant be such a bad thing. Take an E30, equip it with the Sony and tell them this is it, last SLR. I always believe people respect you more if you're just straight with them. Sure it wont ever be big sales like OMD, but it would outshake a number of the myriad of fishtins thats been put out. Really the whole works is such a complete mess, and the PR is a dreadful fiasco.

But back to our little story
If and when the userbase has worked through all that, then theres the matter of the EVF. Some just wont no matter what, theyre lost to another brand. Some will feel some pain ($) over that, others will reflect their pain as these are people theyve spent years with in various forums about the net.

So its a mixed bag, some will see an avenue to keep going, might have other benefits with mFT lenses too. Others will be jack of it, dump there stuff on ebay and just split, and who would blame them.

This has been a case study in mismanagement all along. They went headfirst into mFT without it seems considering 43rds users and what would happen to them. They knew enough to know it would be bad, thats why they avoided telling them straight. Any news they got had to be translated from Swahili or Congolese, which for a mostly white male english speaking userbase, could honestly be interpreted as anything meaning anything.

Then theres the design. They chose a register too short to allow alternate ways of rigging the camera for pdAF. They had quite a wide mouth SLR lens mount, and a narrow mFT one. If they made one fit within the other another opportunity for a different kind of hybrid with both mounts might have been realised. But while the bayonet fits, the lenses wont clear. And yet its so close, with 53mm for the base of the mFT mount, and 47mm of the 43rds mount with the clutches of the bayonet retracted.

Six lousy millimetres separate a design that could have used both lenses all along.

Am.

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Riley
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amalric
OP amalric Forum Pro • Posts: 10,839
Re: 30 new lenses added in one go to the m4/3 system...

fermy wrote:

Potential addition of HQ 4/3 lenses should be interesting to those clamoring for quality fast zooms or long teles and of course those that hold on to 4/3 lenses. However, this is waporware so far, when the camera is there there will be something to discuss.

Well, it depends. Because the lenses are already there, and I have seen a few even here using them and complaining about slow AF.

Add those who complain that m4/3 have little or no fast zooms. Add those who want GHG quality.

Potentiallly a Pro OMD, together with the GH3, is possibly worth a Pro  forum apart.

If the porting of the 4/3 lenses is successful there are quite a few needs that are covered.

From a purely m4/3 perspective I think that a mix of primes for the central range, and zooms at the extremes makes good sense.

But if I was a marriage hack, then perhaps I would consider the 12-60 in preference to the 12-50, or even the 12-35.

Am.

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Rriley
Rriley Forum Pro • Posts: 21,846
Re: 30 new lenses added in one go to the m4/3 system...

amalric wrote:

fermy wrote:

Potential addition of HQ 4/3 lenses should be interesting to those clamoring for quality fast zooms or long teles and of course those that hold on to 4/3 lenses. However, this is waporware so far, when the camera is there there will be something to discuss.

Well, it depends. Because the lenses are already there, and I have seen a few even here using them and complaining about slow AF.

Add those who complain that m4/3 have little or no fast zooms. Add those who want GHG quality.

Potentiallly a Pro OMD, together with the GH3, is possibly worth a Pro forum apart.

actually that could be a good idea

If the porting of the 4/3 lenses is successful there are quite a few needs that are covered.

From a purely m4/3 perspective I think that a mix of primes for the central range, and zooms at the extremes makes good sense.

But if I was a marriage hack, then perhaps I would consider the 12-60 in preference to the 12-50, or even the 12-35.

if its AF worked out or you could put up with whatever AF drag it had, that could be a cost competitive formula. Theyre around for less than $500

Am.

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Riley
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Eric Perez Regular Member • Posts: 110
Re: 30 new lenses added in one go to the m4/3 system...

Interesting info. I have been posting all over the pana threads with no help, perhaps here somebody can offer a simple answer. I am thinking of buying a GH2 for video, already own a K5-IIs for stills. I am still buying glass for my K5 so I was hoping to avoid throwing another fortune into my MFT lenses. Concerning video, does the sharpness of the glass affect the GH2 video sharpness as much as stills? In otherwords, if I buy a lens that isn't the sharpest out there (for a lower price), will it diminish the great GH2 video resolution nearly as much as it will for the stills?

It would seem since video is a fraction of the 16mp stills it wouldn't be bothered as much by softer glass, plz correct me if I am wrong. I am really hoping I am correct as it would allow me to pick up some longer zooms ideal for video without braking what's left of the bank.

Rriley
Rriley Forum Pro • Posts: 21,846
Re: 30 new lenses added in one go to the m4/3 system...

Eric Perez wrote:

Interesting info. I have been posting all over the pana threads with no help, perhaps here somebody can offer a simple answer. I am thinking of buying a GH2 for video, already own a K5-IIs for stills. I am still buying glass for my K5 so I was hoping to avoid throwing another fortune into my MFT lenses. Concerning video, does the sharpness of the glass affect the GH2 video sharpness as much as stills? In otherwords, if I buy a lens that isn't the sharpest out there (for a lower price), will it diminish the great GH2 video resolution nearly as much as it will for the stills?

sorry to but in,
Ive found video 'very' sharp
I am using SHG Zuiko which is about as good as it gets, mostly shooting at 8mm to minimise distortion, but my 9-18 (43rds vers) is also very sharp and nicely detailed. Does not look like jpegs or unprocessed files at all, it is one of the surprises I found when I first got into video.
funny you should bring that up as I hadnt thought much of it before

It would seem since video is a fraction of the 16mp stills it wouldn't be bothered as much by softer glass, plz correct me if I am wrong. I am really hoping I am correct as it would allow me to pick up some longer zooms ideal for video without braking what's left of the bank.

I think your observations are correct
I havent been using AF much, just AF to determine focus at the start of each clip, not constant AF which I have zero experience with

the way I see it, video is pretty much a manual focus environment, but Im all UWA
IM from the 43rds environment so Im using adapted 43rds lenses
If you are looking for low bucks investment, kit lenses and 43rds lenses adapted to GH2 are a cheap and cheerful way to get very good production.

a rundown on some Zuikos can be found here:
43rds lenses

have a look on ebay, there are other reliable second hand resources too, so check back

also see if you can get this guys attention

http://www.dpreview.com/members/4222674355

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Riley
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DLBlack Forum Pro • Posts: 13,511
Re: 30 new lenses added in one go to the m4/3 system...

The rumored pro-OMD that can fully use 4/3 lenses is really good news for  users that have those great 4/3 lenses.  For the people that don't, then new native m-4/3 lenses would be better.  Hopefully the pro-OMD will solve the c-AF tracking issues that current CD-AF cameras have.  Still interesting times ahead.

Dave

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Eric Perez Regular Member • Posts: 110
Re: 30 new lenses added in one go to the m4/3 system...

Thanks Rriley, I messaged G and asked him a basic rundown of my question. I'll share my findings so maybe anybody else with the same ? can find an answer.

amalric
OP amalric Forum Pro • Posts: 10,839
Re: 30 new lenses added in one go to the m4/3 system...

DLBlack wrote:

The rumored pro-OMD that can fully use 4/3 lenses is really good news for users that have those great 4/3 lenses. For the people that don't, then new native m-4/3 lenses would be better. Hopefully the pro-OMD will solve the c-AF tracking issues that current CD-AF cameras have. Still interesting times ahead.

I am not so sure, because although Oly will certainly issue some new m4/3 native lenses, the message coming across from an OM-D Pro with adapter is that those 4/3 fast zooms will be all we will ever see.

And as mentioned elsewhere, they are even better than the best zooms issued by Panny, and have at the moment a v. convenient price. I am sure that Pro and semi-Pro users will jump on the occasion, if they AF seamlessly, and are matched to a properly sized body.

I ran a simulation of the OM-D with grip, and both the 12-60 and 14-54 and they match quite well.

That might also explain why Oly insists with primes now.

Am.

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