5D3 + 50L + Outer AF points = Much Sadness

Started Dec 1, 2012 | Discussions
bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 57,679
Re: Maybe you and Pixel me could help each other take the feet out of your mouths?

VivaLasVegas wrote:

No, I am not joking. Why?

Seriously, are you not joking? Maybe you are joking about not joking.

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Bob

schmegg Veteran Member • Posts: 5,768
Re: 5D3 + 50L + Outer AF points = Much Sadness

VivaLasVegas wrote:

I know this is a week old thread, I am in amazement of how many clueless photographers can't figure out the best AF pt.(center or right/left outer) to use when using a FAST glass(f2, f1.8, f1.4 and f1.2). According to Canon, you can ONLY use the center five DUAL x-types AF sensors for FAST glass(f2, f1.8, f1.4 and f1.2).

See that BLUE BOX with "X", that is the extent that you can point your FAST glass (f2, f1.8, f1.4 and f1.2), you can NOT use the 10 AF pts on the outer right and left sides because those are only sensitive to f2.8-4, they are NOT fast type sensors. However, you can focus and recompose, to an extent, within a few feet.

According to CANON, "When lenses f/2.8 or faster are used, the central five AF points switch from standard cross-type coverage (shown here in yellow) to an extremely high-precision, diagonal cross-type set of line sensors. This conceptual illustration (not a precise graphic) gives an idea of coverage relative to the AF point users see in the viewfinder." The outer right & left 10 AF pts. DOES NOT have this feature.

Yep - this is worded a bit poorly I think.

And, as usual, those trolls amongst us have jumped to the wrong conclusions.

It should be pointed out that with "fast glass", the 5D3's AF system will use all 61 points.

What Viva was attempting to pojnt out is that it's only with certain fast lenses that you can utilise all of the "double cross-type AF points" shown in the top diagram (in blue). With slower glass these behave as more normal cross-type AF points (like lesser AF systems employ). The centre point is a special case and will work as a double cross-type point with a wider selection of lenses.

For those who are interested, the full, and correct, story is in the manual - pages 78 to 84.

bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 57,679
Re: 5D3 + 50L + Outer AF points = Much Sadness

schmegg wrote:

And, as usual, those trolls amongst us have jumped to the wrong conclusions.

Who are you calling 'trolls' and which conclusions are wrong?

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Bob

schmegg Veteran Member • Posts: 5,768
Re: 5D3 + 50L + Outer AF points = Much Sadness
1

bobn2 wrote:

schmegg wrote:

And, as usual, those trolls amongst us have jumped to the wrong conclusions.

Who are you calling 'trolls' and which conclusions are wrong?

Certainly not you Bob - your posts have been bang on!

I was thinking of "pixel me" and "showmetheprime".

Sorry for the confusion.

schmegg Veteran Member • Posts: 5,768
Re: 5D3 + 50L + Outer AF points = Much Sadness

pixel me wrote:

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

camera of the year and can't use outer focus points

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

Wrong - the 5D3 is quite capable of using it's outer AF points.

Download the manual and find out for yourself if your interested. (I can tell you don't actually own a 5D3)

schmegg Veteran Member • Posts: 5,768
Re: lol
1

showmetheprime wrote:

OMG you're actually saying the so called "wonder AF" system of the 5DIII can only use the centre AF points on fast glass. Aha ha ha aha haaaaaaaaa. lol. What a joke.

Wrong - the 5D3 can use all it's double cross-type AF points with fast glass. Do us all a favour and go to the manual and inform yourself!

bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 57,679
Re: 5D3 + 50L + Outer AF points = Much Sadness

schmegg wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

schmegg wrote:

And, as usual, those trolls amongst us have jumped to the wrong conclusions.

Who are you calling 'trolls' and which conclusions are wrong?

Certainly not you Bob - your posts have been bang on!

I was thinking of "pixel me" and "showmetheprime".

Sorry for the confusion.

Yes, but they are just drawing the logical conclusion, I guess ironically, of what VLV is saying. It is amusing the Canon's most virulent fanboy seems to think that some of the 5DIII's focus points become inoperative if the lens is slower than f/2.8. That would be a major design failure on Canon's part (one they haven't made).

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Bob

VivaLasVegas Senior Member • Posts: 1,210
Re: How would one focus and recompose from those limited AF points.

DFPanno wrote:

That's a long swing of the lens if the subject is on either end of the frame.

Yes it is a long swing, focus and recompose at f1.2 can be tricky, that is why people don't do it. The trick for me is to focus(f1.8-1.2) on something midway between your main subject and final composition, it works most of the time for me. The swing and final composition distance to the camera will be different, that is why it is tricky. Just try my midway tactic, maybe it'll work for you. Remember humans unconsciously move back and forth +/- 1/8th an inch, so with you and your human subject, both of you could be off by 1/4th of an inch and at f1.2, that is more than enough to put the eyes OOF.

schmegg Veteran Member • Posts: 5,768
Re: 5D3 + 50L + Outer AF points = Much Sadness

bobn2 wrote:

schmegg wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

schmegg wrote:

And, as usual, those trolls amongst us have jumped to the wrong conclusions.

Who are you calling 'trolls' and which conclusions are wrong?

Certainly not you Bob - your posts have been bang on!

I was thinking of "pixel me" and "showmetheprime".

Sorry for the confusion.

Yes, but they are just drawing the logical conclusion, I guess ironically, of what VLV is saying. It is amusing the Canon's most virulent fanboy seems to think that some of the 5DIII's focus points become inoperative if the lens is slower than f/2.8. That would be a major design failure on Canon's part (one they haven't made).

Yeah - exactly what I thought. But after re-reading it I was wondering if it was just poorly worded.

Anyway - thought I'd clear it up slightly.

And, further to this ....

There indeed are some lenses for which the outer AF points are disabled. The camera will drop back to 47 point or 33 point AF with certain lenses. And, if that is surprising, there are two lenses with which all points but the single centre point are disabled!

It's worth pointing out (before said Canon haters jump on this) that, of all the lenses where this will happen, only 3 are current lenses - all the others are very early EF lenses that I doubt anyone would be using with a 5D3 anyway.

Those lenses are ...

The 800mm/f5.6L, the 1200mm/f5.6L and the 180mm/f3.5L Macro.

Every other Canon lens that anyone is likely to be using with a 5D3 will use all 61 AF points.

VivaLasVegas Senior Member • Posts: 1,210
Re: Maybe you and Pixel me could help each other take the feet out of your mouths?

bobn2 wrote:

VivaLasVegas wrote:

No, I am not joking. Why?

Seriously, are you not joking? Maybe you are joking about not joking.

I you mean the Canon sauce? yes. I'm going to watch world championship boxing now, Marquez vs Pacquiao, bye.

TOF guy Forum Pro • Posts: 14,883
Twenty-one Cross-type AF points, with any lens f/5.6 or faster

VivaLasVegas wrote:

http://learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2011/1dx_af_precision_crosstype_article.shtml

The link you point to states:

Twenty-one Cross-type AF points, with any lens f/5.6 or faster

The central 21 AF points in the new system provide cross-type coverage, with separate horizontal and vertical line sensors, regardless of the lens in use (as long as the lens – or lens plus tele extender combination, if applicable – has a maximum aperture of f/5.6 or faster).

You may be right (in fact I suspect you're right) but this link does not say anywhere that you're limited the 5 central points using very fast lens. Or I've missed it.

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Thierry

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schmegg Veteran Member • Posts: 5,768
Re: Twenty-one Cross-type AF points, with any lens f/5.6 or faster

TOF guy wrote:

VivaLasVegas wrote:

http://learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2011/1dx_af_precision_crosstype_article.shtml

The link you point to states:

Twenty-one Cross-type AF points, with any lens f/5.6 or faster

The central 21 AF points in the new system provide cross-type coverage, with separate horizontal and vertical line sensors, regardless of the lens in use (as long as the lens – or lens plus tele extender combination, if applicable – has a maximum aperture of f/5.6 or faster).

You may be right (in fact I suspect you're right) but this link does not say anywhere that you're limited the 5 central points using very fast lens. Or I've missed it.

No - he's wrong (or we misunderstood what he meant).

With fast lenses - all AF points work, all cross-type AF points work as cross-type AF points and all double cross-type AF points work as double cross-type AF points.

In fact - all points work to their best abilities with fast lenses.

BTW - it's not just the centre 21 points that are cross-type, there are another twenty (ten on each side) - making a total of 41 cross-type sensors.

thinkfat Senior Member • Posts: 1,185
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DFPanno
OP DFPanno Veteran Member • Posts: 5,484
OK ; thanks
TOF guy Forum Pro • Posts: 14,883
Re: Twenty-one Cross-type AF points, with any lens f/5.6 or faster

So coming back to the O/P. What would be the explanation for the issue at hand?

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Thierry

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rkodama1 Contributing Member • Posts: 803
Re: 5D3 + 50L + Outer AF points = Much Sadness

I did some quick tests with my 50 1.2L and 5DMKIII and I have similar results with the outer AF points.  The focus is off on the 2 outer banks of cross-type focus points for subjects with indoor or lower level lighting.  In bright, outdoor lighting these focus points seem to perform better but I need to do more shooting.   I have tested the same outer focus points with my 50 1.4, 24-105L, etc and they all are spot on so I'm assuming it has something to do with the 50 1.2L combined with the MKIII.   It will be interesting to hear about any other experiences with this combination and the outer cross-type points.

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Randy

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Tario Senior Member • Posts: 1,405
Re: 5D3 + 50L + Outer AF points = Much Sadness

My ruleis no Outer Focus points at Wide Open.. I mean what for????
What would you expect.. I have all fast lenses and my 1.4's are never usd that way.. I would assume a 1.2 would be the rule even more..especially for portraiture up close...

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DFPanno
OP DFPanno Veteran Member • Posts: 5,484
My results were all from indoor shooting.......

In relatively low light.

The good news is that I have concluded that there is probably nothing wrong with my lens.

talico Contributing Member • Posts: 614
Re: My results were all from indoor shooting.......

If you are at the point that you have a conclusion, do you know what the cause of the issue was?  I am honestly curious.  I love this lens, and I am sure a lot of people could benefit from a "how I got the most out of my lens" post.

Thanks in advance,

Tom
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