Need some CC on a few shots - Thank you

Started Nov 25, 2012 | Discussions
tvstaff
tvstaff Senior Member • Posts: 2,148
Need some CC on a few shots - Thank you

I need help.

I've been debating about the 7D vs. the 5DMII for work or going 800E or D4.  Here is my issues.

I'll now have the oppty to follow a well known TV Show through production in remote locations that are hot, sandy, tropical and wet.

Some here tell me to stick with my 7D. So here is the best I can do with the 7D based on what the Network wants.

I'd like advice. How can I improve these shots?  Or should I pick one of the above cameras because the company will be paying for them anyway and I'll get better results.

Here is my current kit: 7D - EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II , 17-55mm f/2.8, 50mm f/1.8, ND Filters and B&W Polarizers for all.  All shooting will be at day but will have two 580EXII. Will not be allowed to use flash during show shooting as it will ruin video production. Two external battery packs. Dell M6600 workstation and two external 2TB drives, (4) 600x 32 GB cards. Backup is a Canon G10 and  60D.

Thank you,

Too soft? In RAW looked better

Gradient filter or PS?  Again the JPEG loses the pop of the RAW file

Too much color? Is contrast right?  JPEG loses the beauty of the RAW

Is this better than the above shot for contrast, color ?  Again, JPG loses what the RAW shot shows.

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ESfishdoc
ESfishdoc Senior Member • Posts: 1,896
Re: Need some CC on a few shots - Thank you

A couple of comments if I may.  You make comments on how the RAW looked better and the jpg lost the pop the RAW had.  That is a bit unusual the way I see things as the RAW image is usually much flatter and any "pop" comes out in post processing.  But.. we all see things differently.

Color and contrast has so many factors.  Some lenses like the Zeiss 21 2.8 seem to really be special.   However, most of what I want has to have post processing applied to a RAW image.  The differences between cameras will probably be very little.. especially the 7D and 5DmkII.  I have both but have never touched a Nikon so I can't comment there.

Judging from the images shadows you were shooting with the sun directly overhead.  That is usually some of the toughest light to work with and provides the least drama.  You also were shooting at f22 which can cause some diffraction (although most will never notice when that happens) as well as a large depth of field.  So if you were intentionally shooting at f22 for the desired effect all is well.  Otherwise I'd shoot a scene like that at iso 100 and faster shutter speed to and around f 8 to 11.  All very personal choices.

Concerning the images:  Too much sky, especially in the first.  The sky is not all that interesting and the water and boats seem secondary.  The beach is washed out and lost in highlights in many areas.  While the pictures may be telling a story that is very specific to a limited audience (such as the company you are shooting for) I don't quite see it.  I see beach and clouds and think it is too hot to be sitting in the chairs and move on.

Changing cameras is going to do very little that will impact these images.  Composition, lighting, and post processing is where the money is.

Richard

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Karl Gnter Wnsch Forum Pro • Posts: 11,408
Re: Need some CC on a few shots - Thank you

tvstaff wrote:

I'd like advice. Or should I pick one of the above cameras because the company will be paying for them anyway and I'll get better results.

I'm pretty certain that - due to the recurring "the RAW looks better than the processed JPEG" complaint - the other cameras would deliver worse results with your current level of expertise at developing the RAW files...

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Karl Günter Wünsch

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tvstaff
OP tvstaff Senior Member • Posts: 2,148
Re: Need some CC on a few shots - Thank you

Karl Gnter Wnsch wrote:

tvstaff wrote:

I'd like advice. Or should I pick one of the above cameras because the company will be paying for them anyway and I'll get better results.

I'm pretty certain that - due to the recurring "the RAW looks better than the processed JPEG" complaint - the other cameras would deliver worse results with your current level of expertise at developing the RAW files...

Karl,

I can use the RAW files for work.  It's only here when I submit shots that I must convert using JPEG.  Most times I use Adobe vs RGB based on the printers used here.

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tvstaff
OP tvstaff Senior Member • Posts: 2,148
Re: Need some CC on a few shots - Thank you

ESfishdoc wrote:

ESfishdoc, first, thank for taking the time to write.

A couple of comments if I may. You make comments on how the RAW looked better and the jpg lost the pop the RAW had. That is a bit unusual the way I see things as the RAW image is usually much flatter and any "pop" comes out in post processing. But.. we all see things differently.

Yes.  This is why I put two of the same images here. One at higher contrast and color to see if they were too blown out.  I don't want the colors to bloom.  The larger 30MB RAW files have much more detail and when set to ADOBE color vs RGB they print very well.

Color and contrast has so many factors. Some lenses like the Zeiss 21 2.8 seem to really be special. However, most of what I want has to have post processing applied to a RAW image. The differences between cameras will probably be very little.. especially the 7D and 5DmkII. I have both but have never touched a Nikon so I can't comment there.

Can I see one of your shots with the Zeiss?  I'm interested, Thank you!

Judging from the images shadows you were shooting with the sun directly overhead. That is usually some of the toughest light to work with and provides the least drama.

This is when they shoot also. Production days are limited and every bit of daylight is worth money.  I won't be able to control that. Best I can do is keep my back to the sun, use ND. The DOF is OK when I'm not shooting the people competing on the show.

You also were shooting at f22 which can cause some diffraction (although most will never notice when that happens) as well as a large depth of field. So if you were intentionally shooting at f22 for the desired effect all is well. Otherwise I'd shoot a scene like that at iso 100 and faster shutter speed to and around f 8 to 11. All very personal choices.

Concerning the images: Too much sky, especially in the first. The sky is not all that interesting and the water and boats seem secondary. The beach is washed out and lost in highlights in many areas. While the pictures may be telling a story that is very specific to a limited audience (such as the company you are shooting for) I don't quite see it. I see beach and clouds and think it is too hot to be sitting in the chairs and move on.

Need the sky (space) for credits and graphics to be used by Advertising Sales and Affiliate Sales.  This is what he wanted.  He also showed me painintngs of an artist by the name of Mary-Sip Green http://www.wallyfindlay.com/wally_findlay_artists_contemporary_sipp-green_m_01.html he wated that amount if possible.

I'm having in trouble with with the sun here.  It's so bright.  at one point the 7D was reading 5000 at F22.   If I use an ND I found the chairs to be too dark.  The shots with the proper lighting on the sand did not hold true to everything else.  I tried bracketing and combining the three shots but did not like the effect.

IM VERY OPEN TO HELP HERE!!!!!   How would you fix this???????

Changing cameras is going to do very little that will impact these images. Composition, lighting, and post processing is where the money is.

Richard, I'm open to the Zeiss lens and please tell me more about how you deal with the bright sand issue.  It's something I'll have to deal with all the time.

THANK YOU for your help and advice,

With best regards

Tony

Richard

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ESfishdoc
ESfishdoc Senior Member • Posts: 1,896
Re: Need some CC on a few shots - Thank you
2

tvstaff wrote:

ESfishdoc wrote:

ESfishdoc, first, thank for taking the time to write.

A couple of comments if I may. You make comments on how the RAW looked better and the jpg lost the pop the RAW had. That is a bit unusual the way I see things as the RAW image is usually much flatter and any "pop" comes out in post processing. But.. we all see things differently.

Yes. This is why I put two of the same images here. One at higher contrast and color to see if they were too blown out. I don't want the colors to bloom. The larger 30MB RAW files have much more detail and when set to ADOBE color vs RGB they print very well.

Color and contrast has so many factors. Some lenses like the Zeiss 21 2.8 seem to really be special. However, most of what I want has to have post processing applied to a RAW image. The differences between cameras will probably be very little.. especially the 7D and 5DmkII. I have both but have never touched a Nikon so I can't comment there.

Can I see one of your shots with the Zeiss? I'm interested, Thank you!

Judging from the images shadows you were shooting with the sun directly overhead. That is usually some of the toughest light to work with and provides the least drama.

This is when they shoot also. Production days are limited and every bit of daylight is worth money. I won't be able to control that. Best I can do is keep my back to the sun, use ND. The DOF is OK when I'm not shooting the people competing on the show.

You also were shooting at f22 which can cause some diffraction (although most will never notice when that happens) as well as a large depth of field. So if you were intentionally shooting at f22 for the desired effect all is well. Otherwise I'd shoot a scene like that at iso 100 and faster shutter speed to and around f 8 to 11. All very personal choices.

Concerning the images: Too much sky, especially in the first. The sky is not all that interesting and the water and boats seem secondary. The beach is washed out and lost in highlights in many areas. While the pictures may be telling a story that is very specific to a limited audience (such as the company you are shooting for) I don't quite see it. I see beach and clouds and think it is too hot to be sitting in the chairs and move on.

Need the sky (space) for credits and graphics to be used by Advertising Sales and Affiliate Sales. This is what he wanted. He also showed me painintngs of an artist by the name of Mary-Sip Green http://www.wallyfindlay.com/wally_findlay_artists_contemporary_sipp-green_m_01.html he wated that amount if possible.

I'm having in trouble with with the sun here. It's so bright. at one point the 7D was reading 5000 at F22. If I use an ND I found the chairs to be too dark. The shots with the proper lighting on the sand did not hold true to everything else. I tried bracketing and combining the three shots but did not like the effect.

IM VERY OPEN TO HELP HERE!!!!! How would you fix this???????

Changing cameras is going to do very little that will impact these images. Composition, lighting, and post processing is where the money is.

Richard, I'm open to the Zeiss lens and please tell me more about how you deal with the bright sand issue. It's something I'll have to deal with all the time.

THANK YOU for your help and advice,

With best regards

Tony

Tony....

Almost all of these shots in this set were taken with a Zeiss 21 2.8

http://www.flickr.com/photos/33755787@N03/sets/72157629820915081/

I'm not suggesting the Zeiss is a fix... just that it is a lens that really offers some nice contrast and color above most others (for a price)

I understand now what you are shooting and why.

PM me if you want some directed help.  What are you using for post processing?

Richard

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Y0GI Veteran Member • Posts: 5,233
Re: Need some CC on a few shots - Thank you

tvstaff wrote:

ESfishdoc wrote:

ESfishdoc, first, thank for taking the time to write.

A couple of comments if I may. You make comments on how the RAW looked better and the jpg lost the pop the RAW had. That is a bit unusual the way I see things as the RAW image is usually much flatter and any "pop" comes out in post processing. But.. we all see things differently.

Yes. This is why I put two of the same images here. One at higher contrast and color to see if they were too blown out. I don't want the colors to bloom. The larger 30MB RAW files have much more detail and when set to ADOBE color vs RGB they print very well.

Color and contrast has so many factors. Some lenses like the Zeiss 21 2.8 seem to really be special. However, most of what I want has to have post processing applied to a RAW image. The differences between cameras will probably be very little.. especially the 7D and 5DmkII. I have both but have never touched a Nikon so I can't comment there.

Can I see one of your shots with the Zeiss? I'm interested, Thank you!

Judging from the images shadows you were shooting with the sun directly overhead. That is usually some of the toughest light to work with and provides the least drama.

This is when they shoot also. Production days are limited and every bit of daylight is worth money. I won't be able to control that. Best I can do is keep my back to the sun, use ND. The DOF is OK when I'm not shooting the people competing on the show.

You also were shooting at f22 which can cause some diffraction (although most will never notice when that happens) as well as a large depth of field. So if you were intentionally shooting at f22 for the desired effect all is well. Otherwise I'd shoot a scene like that at iso 100 and faster shutter speed to and around f 8 to 11. All very personal choices.

Concerning the images: Too much sky, especially in the first. The sky is not all that interesting and the water and boats seem secondary. The beach is washed out and lost in highlights in many areas. While the pictures may be telling a story that is very specific to a limited audience (such as the company you are shooting for) I don't quite see it. I see beach and clouds and think it is too hot to be sitting in the chairs and move on.

Need the sky (space) for credits and graphics to be used by Advertising Sales and Affiliate Sales. This is what he wanted. He also showed me painintngs of an artist by the name of Mary-Sip Green http://www.wallyfindlay.com/wally_findlay_artists_contemporary_sipp-green_m_01.html he wated that amount if possible.

I'm having in trouble with with the sun here. It's so bright. at one point the 7D was reading 5000 at F22. If I use an ND I found the chairs to be too dark. The shots with the proper lighting on the sand did not hold true to everything else. I tried bracketing and combining the three shots but did not like the effect.

IM VERY OPEN TO HELP HERE!!!!! How would you fix this???????

Changing cameras is going to do very little that will impact these images. Composition, lighting, and post processing is where the money is.

Richard, I'm open to the Zeiss lens and please tell me more about how you deal with the bright sand issue. It's something I'll have to deal with all the time.

THANK YOU for your help and advice,

With best regards

Tony

Richard

Tony - Did you try the CPL filter?  I should do wonders for shots of clouds & sky, also may help with the bright sand.

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Karl Gnter Wnsch Forum Pro • Posts: 11,408
Re: Need some CC on a few shots - Thank you

tvstaff wrote:

Yes. This is why I put two of the same images here. One at higher contrast and color to see if they were too blown out. I don't want the colors to bloom.

That clearly is a case of wrong priorities!

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Karl Günter Wünsch

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Jeff Peterman
MOD Jeff Peterman Forum Pro • Posts: 12,849
Re: Need some CC on a few shots - Thank you

First, buy and learn how to use Lightroom! It will let you get the JPGs to look as good as the RAW files - in fact, you should be able to get them better as you can recover detail in the highlights and in the shadows. Second, understand color spaces/printer profiles. Third, by the tools to calibrate your monitor (the Colorvision Spyder 4 Pro will cost you less than $200).

With a calibrated monitor and a better understanding of color spaces/profiles, you'll see a huge improvement in the look of your final images.

Finally, buy a backup lens - maybe something like the Canon 18-200mm. While the latter isn't a great lens, stopped down in bright light is is OK, and could work as a backup for either of your lenses. Plus, you could leave that on your 60D for time when you quickly needed something wider /longer than the lens on your 7D.

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Jeff Peterman
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tvstaff
OP tvstaff Senior Member • Posts: 2,148
Re: Need some CC on a few shots - Thank you

I'd like to see what lightroom can do with this one.  The sand is tough without losing the water and sky

Jeff Peterman wrote:

First, buy and learn how to use Lightroom! It will let you get the JPGs to look as good as the RAW files - in fact, you should be able to get them better as you can recover detail in the highlights and in the shadows. Second, understand color spaces/printer profiles. Third, by the tools to calibrate your monitor (the Colorvision Spyder 4 Pro will cost you less than $200).

With a calibrated monitor and a better understanding of color spaces/profiles, you'll see a huge improvement in the look of your final images.

Finally, buy a backup lens - maybe something like the Canon 18-200mm. While the latter isn't a great lens, stopped down in bright light is is OK, and could work as a backup for either of your lenses. Plus, you could leave that on your 60D for time when you quickly needed something wider /longer than the lens on your 7D.

Jeff, Thank you. I'm looking into Lightroom based on your advice. And.... another lens to backup my 200 2.8L, 17-552.8 and 50 1.8.

Thank you!!!

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tvstaff
OP tvstaff Senior Member • Posts: 2,148
Re: Need some CC on a few shots - Thank you

ESfishdoc wrote:

tvstaff wrote:

ESfishdoc wrote:

ESfishdoc, first, thank for taking the time to write.

A couple of comments if I may. You make comments on how the RAW looked better and the jpg lost the pop the RAW had. That is a bit unusual the way I see things as the RAW image is usually much flatter and any "pop" comes out in post processing. But.. we all see things differently.

Yes. This is why I put two of the same images here. One at higher contrast and color to see if they were too blown out. I don't want the colors to bloom. The larger 30MB RAW files have much more detail and when set to ADOBE color vs RGB they print very well.

Color and contrast has so many factors. Some lenses like the Zeiss 21 2.8 seem to really be special. However, most of what I want has to have post processing applied to a RAW image. The differences between cameras will probably be very little.. especially the 7D and 5DmkII. I have both but have never touched a Nikon so I can't comment there.

Can I see one of your shots with the Zeiss? I'm interested, Thank you!

Judging from the images shadows you were shooting with the sun directly overhead. That is usually some of the toughest light to work with and provides the least drama.

This is when they shoot also. Production days are limited and every bit of daylight is worth money. I won't be able to control that. Best I can do is keep my back to the sun, use ND. The DOF is OK when I'm not shooting the people competing on the show.

You also were shooting at f22 which can cause some diffraction (although most will never notice when that happens) as well as a large depth of field. So if you were intentionally shooting at f22 for the desired effect all is well. Otherwise I'd shoot a scene like that at iso 100 and faster shutter speed to and around f 8 to 11. All very personal choices.

Concerning the images: Too much sky, especially in the first. The sky is not all that interesting and the water and boats seem secondary. The beach is washed out and lost in highlights in many areas. While the pictures may be telling a story that is very specific to a limited audience (such as the company you are shooting for) I don't quite see it. I see beach and clouds and think it is too hot to be sitting in the chairs and move on.

Need the sky (space) for credits and graphics to be used by Advertising Sales and Affiliate Sales. This is what he wanted. He also showed me painintngs of an artist by the name of Mary-Sip Green http://www.wallyfindlay.com/wally_findlay_artists_contemporary_sipp-green_m_01.html he wated that amount if possible.

I'm having in trouble with with the sun here. It's so bright. at one point the 7D was reading 5000 at F22. If I use an ND I found the chairs to be too dark. The shots with the proper lighting on the sand did not hold true to everything else. I tried bracketing and combining the three shots but did not like the effect.

IM VERY OPEN TO HELP HERE!!!!! How would you fix this???????

Changing cameras is going to do very little that will impact these images. Composition, lighting, and post processing is where the money is.

Richard, I'm open to the Zeiss lens and please tell me more about how you deal with the bright sand issue. It's something I'll have to deal with all the time.

THANK YOU for your help and advice,

With best regards

Tony

Tony....

Almost all of these shots in this set were taken with a Zeiss 21 2.8

http://www.flickr.com/photos/33755787@N03/sets/72157629820915081/

I'm not suggesting the Zeiss is a fix... just that it is a lens that really offers some nice contrast and color above most others (for a price)

I understand now what you are shooting and why.

PM me if you want some directed help. What are you using for post processing?

Richard,

I'm using thumbs plus and Digital Photo Pro at home. Will have the full suite of Photoshop to put on the Dell M6600 on Monday or Tuesday.   I also looked and found I have a spider here. Funny how I never thought of calibrating the monitor. Actully... It's not so funny.  Using simple gamma on two shots I brought from the office I'm way off on the M6600 and the Samsung Syncmaster I'm using at the office.  I need to get the M6600 tuned the same way the SyncMaster is.  There was nothing wrong with my shots they looked too dark on the M6600 and blew them out with too much light.

Wed, I'll go downtown and see they will let me try the Zeiss lens for a few days on a rental.

I like your Flicker page. The night shots and the beach in black and white... Very sweet.

I'll shoot you back when I get PS installed at home and the monitors calibrated.  Look forward to you helping me with the basic skills I'm trying to build.

Best regards,

Tony

Richard

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Jeff Peterman
MOD Jeff Peterman Forum Pro • Posts: 12,849
Re: Need some CC on a few shots - Thank you
1

My normal kit is similar to yours:

7D with a 40D for backup

70-200 f2.8L IS

17-55 f2.8

Plus, I carry a 10-22 for ultra-wide shots. When shooting events, I'll have the 70-200 on one body and the 17-55 on another, so I can quickly swap views without missing the shot while I change a lens. For important events (like weddings) I also carry a 17-85 and a 55-250 as backups - or sometimes 20mm, 50mm and 85mm f1.8 primes if the light is very low.

Note, in your case, when you need to shoot in rough conditions, you main lenses should be L lenses and those have environmental protection. The 70-200 L counts, but the 17-55 doesn't (it's a great lens, but not environmentally sealed). You may way to look at the 16-35 L and either the 24-105 L f4 or 24-75 L f.28 lenses. Not cheap lenses, but they'll put up with dust/sand/moisture better than the non-L lenses.

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Jeff Peterman
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Karl Gnter Wnsch Forum Pro • Posts: 11,408
Take care with your horizon lines...

On all of your photos the horizon dips...

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Karl Günter Wünsch

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Jeff Peterman
MOD Jeff Peterman Forum Pro • Posts: 12,849
Re: Take care with your horizon lines...

The horizon is level, it's your monitor that isn't. 

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Jeff Peterman
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Karl Gnter Wnsch Forum Pro • Posts: 11,408
Re: Take care with your horizon lines...

Jeff Peterman wrote:

The horizon is level, it's your monitor that isn't.

I happen to have checked, all horizons on his pictures dip to the right.

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tvstaff
OP tvstaff Senior Member • Posts: 2,148
Re: Need some CC on a few shots - Thank you

Jeff Peterman wrote:

My normal kit is similar to yours:

7D with a 40D for backup

70-200 f2.8L IS

17-55 f2.8

Plus, I carry a 10-22 for ultra-wide shots. When shooting events, I'll have the 70-200 on one body and the 17-55 on another, so I can quickly swap views without missing the shot while I change a lens. For important events (like weddings) I also carry a 17-85 and a 55-250 as backups - or sometimes 20mm, 50mm and 85mm f1.8 primes if the light is very low.

Note, in your case, when you need to shoot in rough conditions, you main lenses should be L lenses and those have environmental protection. The 70-200 L counts, but the 17-55 doesn't (it's a great lens, but not environmentally sealed). You may way to look at the 16-35 L and either the 24-105 L f4 or 24-75 L f.28 lenses. Not cheap lenses, but they'll put up with dust/sand/moisture better than the non-L lenses.

Jeff,

Thank you. I really like my 17-55 and I know it won't stand up to the environments.  Trouble is I've not used another lens, L or not that I like as much with such speed.  The range is great.  I'll have to try the 16-35 when I go Downtown on Wed.  Thank you

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tvstaff
OP tvstaff Senior Member • Posts: 2,148
Re: Need some CC on a few shots - Thank you

Jeff, Did some homework.   The Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L II USM looks like a keeper !

Thank you

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Canon EOS-1D X Canon EOS-1D X Mark II Canon EF 70-200mm F2.8L IS II USM Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II USM Canon EF 24-70mm F4L IS USM +22 more
tvstaff
OP tvstaff Senior Member • Posts: 2,148
Re: Take care with your horizon lines...



There is a curve now from the lens. Center ocean is flat. This is not normal for the 15-55

Tried to correct with Canon Digital Photo Pro for this lens.  Perhap PS will work better?  Its a shame, I liked the shot and croping out the left would go into the chairs.   I'll try a different lens next time I travel there.  I'm over processing this puppy too too much.   Lost the trees to the right too

 tvstaff's gear list:tvstaff's gear list
Canon EOS-1D X Canon EOS-1D X Mark II Canon EF 70-200mm F2.8L IS II USM Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II USM Canon EF 24-70mm F4L IS USM +22 more
tonyjr
tonyjr Veteran Member • Posts: 5,282
Re: Need some CC on a few shots - Thank you

1st when you go to camera store , pick up a couple of rubber hoods . They make adjusting the CPL easier .

Next I would look at Variable ND's .

3 rd , get out to a beach or a park with sand and start shooting - make notes .

As far as RAW goes , don't use the auto feature until you have tried the others . [ sunny , cloudy , you can set color temp , etc .

I would get another 17-55 , if you are worried about it . The new 16-35 you might find is not long enough .

I would 2nd the idea of having the 2nd camera ready with different lens .

Also at least 2 extra sets of batteries [ 4 extras for each body ] , a grip for each and either a solar or car charger for the batteries . I would also the the AA trays for the grips in the bag and some AA batteries .

 tonyjr's gear list:tonyjr's gear list
Canon EOS 400D Canon EOS 7D Canon EF 35mm F2.0 Canon EF-S 10-22mm F3.5-4.5 USM Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM +14 more
Karl Gnter Wnsch Forum Pro • Posts: 11,408
Re: Take care with your horizon lines...

tvstaff wrote:

I'm over processing this puppy too too much. Lost the trees to the right too

That makes it all the more important to use the available help (electronic level) to get the horizon line correct in the first place.

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regards
Karl Günter Wünsch

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Canon EOS 7D Mark II
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