Question on attached photo

Started Nov 24, 2012 | Questions
cpharm86 Senior Member • Posts: 1,743
Question on attached photo

Just getting back into photography this year so this question is no doubt basic. I tend to get a red/orange hue with candid shots using flash in most venues. Some are more prominant than others. I know I can fix in LR4 etc but is there anything I can do to reduce prior to developing? 

Lens was Canon 24-70L ii

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ANSWER:
Hank3152
Hank3152 Forum Pro • Posts: 13,499
Re: Question on attached photo

cpharm86 wrote:

Just getting back into photography this year so this question is no doubt basic. I tend to get a red/orange hue with candid shots using flash in most venues.

Which WB setting are you using? If not using the flash setting perhaps the ambient lighting is affecting the hue........

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OP cpharm86 Senior Member • Posts: 1,743
Re: Question on attached photo

Did not use the flash setting. Used AWB. I came from a 10D to a 5DMIII this March so a little learning curve with the camera.

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rndman Senior Member • Posts: 1,595
Re: Question on attached photo

cpharm86 wrote:

Did not use the flash setting. Used AWB. I came from a 10D to a 5DMIII this March so a little learning curve with the camera.

If you use Flash Wb then it will look all flat IMHO. You can handle the color tint in PP instead. Else it loses the ambiance and looks ugly. I never like the plain flash look. Again this is just me.

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Absolutic
Absolutic Veteran Member • Posts: 5,395
Re: Question on attached photo

It is hard to figure out with most venues because they often have a combination of different types of lights plus strobes etc...   so the safest way is to shoot in RAW and fix WB in post... it is very easy with Lightroom WB tool just click on something white or gray in your photo and voila.

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NotDavid New Member • Posts: 18
Re: Question on attached photo
1

Perhaps using a colored gel filter on your flash to try to match the color temperature of the ambient light in the venue would help. Then when you balance for your subject, the background should also be close to the correct color balance.

Of course, if the color temp of the lighting isn't relatively constant, this probably wouldn't help much...

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Canoman21 Regular Member • Posts: 206
Re: Question on attached photo
3

don't bother with flash. see which girls are single and get lucky

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David Franklin Senior Member • Posts: 1,077
Probably the best answer
1

I can't answer your question for other pictures, but for the one you posted, there is one important hint. Look at the backlight falling on the girls shoulders. See the srong orange cast, much warmer than, for instance, the girls' faces? This is most likely from ambient tungsten or other warm ambient lighting sources in the environment where the picture was taken. Your shutter speed, 1/60 of a second, is just long enough to let ambient light effect the color temperature of your overall exposure, including the front lit area that is mostly illuminated by your flash, thereby making it look a little too warm as well, in proportion to the amount of ambient light affecting the exposure. If you used auto white balance, the result you got wasn't too bad under the circumstances, and, if you used the manual flash setting to set your white balance, then your result would be fairly predictable, as it would only be pertinent to the flash portion of the existing illumination. To correct for this, you would need to "up" your shutter speed to 1/200 of a second to minimize the effect of ambient light, but, keep in mind that that would then make your background, lit by much less light overall - only lit by your flash - much darker and less "natural" looking, unless the flash was either an overal bounce off the ceiling, or if the background lit by a second slaved flash.

Summary: there is no easdy answer, only a list of possible compromises, the last of which lies in some careful post processing.

Regards,

David

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Victor Engel Forum Pro • Posts: 18,439
Re: Question on attached photo

Don't forget to consider all light sources. There is the light from the flash and the light from other sources. Inside, the other sources are likely tungsten or fluorescent, or a combination. The photo will capture the lighting from all sources. You can vary the strength of the flash and the length of exposure to control the balance between ambient and flash light. You can also gel the flash to match the ambient light. Thirdly, you can bounce the flash off something with a color caste to modify the color.

To facilitate accurate color rendering, you should take at least one shot with a color target in the photo, illuminated by the same color combination you will be shooting. You can use a grey card for a basic adjustment or a target with multiple colors so you can make a profile.

No matter what sort of calibration you do, though, you'll continue to have problems as long as there are multiple light sources of different colors.

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Howard A. Lewis Contributing Member • Posts: 601
My solution

Using Aperture, choose the skin tone WB tool, click on a face, and you're done. Uncannily accurate. Type of skin doesn't seem to matter. I have no idea how they did it. It is the 10-second solution.

Victor Engel Forum Pro • Posts: 18,439
Re: My solution

They probably just automated a standard Lab mode ratio, or something similar. Warmth vs. tint is essentially the same as Lab. Lightness would be ignored.

I've not used Aperture. Surely there is a slider or something to tweak it warmer/cooler, or something, right?

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Volksgti81 Contributing Member • Posts: 792
Re: Question on attached photo

Not just you I never use the flash WB either.

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OP cpharm86 Senior Member • Posts: 1,743
Re: Question on attached photo

Thanks for all the sugestions.  I will try some of the good input I received.

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OP cpharm86 Senior Member • Posts: 1,743
Re: Probably the best answer

Nice suggestion and comment also. Thank you.

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Press Correspondent
Press Correspondent Veteran Member • Posts: 3,345
Even better :)
1

David Franklin wrote:

I can't answer your question for other pictures, but for the one you posted, there is one important hint. Look at the backlight falling on the girls shoulders. See the srong orange cast, much warmer than, for instance, the girls' faces? This is most likely from ambient tungsten or other warm ambient lighting sources in the environment where the picture was taken. Your shutter speed, 1/60 of a second, is just long enough to let ambient light effect the color temperature of your overall exposure, including the front lit area that is mostly illuminated by your flash, thereby making it look a little too warm as well, in proportion to the amount of ambient light affecting the exposure. If you used auto white balance, the result you got wasn't too bad under the circumstances, and, if you used the manual flash setting to set your white balance, then your result would be fairly predictable, as it would only be pertinent to the flash portion of the existing illumination. To correct for this, you would need to "up" your shutter speed to 1/200 of a second to minimize the effect of ambient light, but, keep in mind that that would then make your background, lit by much less light overall - only lit by your flash - much darker and less "natural" looking, unless the flash was either an overal bounce off the ceiling, or if the background lit by a second slaved flash.

Summary: there is no easdy answer, only a list of possible compromises, the last of which lies in some careful post processing.

You also could have used ISO 100 or 200 max. instead of 1600 to get less noise and better image quality. Shortening the shutter from 60 to 200 would reduce the ambient light 3 times. Reducing ISO to 100 - 16 times. Doing both - more than 50 times. You probably would not see the lights outside the window, but judging by the shadow, the orkid would still be visible.

If you want to use flash in combination with tungsten at high ISO, you should put an orange gel filter on the flash to make flash the same color as tungsten. Gel filters come with Canon EX600-RT or can be purchased separately. Once all light is of the same color, the camera white balance will work better plus it would be a lot easier for you to correct colors in post processing.

I shot a portrait once with D800 at high ISO with flash, very similar to your shot, except the result was much worse. The flash and tungsten came from different angles in about the same amount, so the face was different colors on different sides no matter what you do in post processing. The only solution was to convert it to black and white. This is another argument against a built-in flash: I have not seen gel filter holders for it, although one cuold simply hold the filter or just tape it to the camera.

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JOrtiz Regular Member • Posts: 131
Re: Question on attached photo

I do not know which style you are using. I find Standard a little bit too harsh for flash. Try Faithfull and you can even reduce the saturation for one point.

Also, using AWB you are going to have all kind of different tones and colors because the camera make its own decision based on if it find an usuable white spot in the picture as reference. If there is not white in the picture the camera could give you a redition different of the one you were expecting.

You can try using 5500K as your WB setting to start and move as you need. You could also make your own Custom WB and keep it for flash. And nothing wrong by shooting at ISO 1600, specially with a Mark III. I do not know which flash you have. I use Canon 430ex II on my Mark III or 7D.

When shooting with flash I shoot on Manual, 1/160, f3.5 ISO 2000 if I aim the flash to the ceiling (when the ceiling is white and not too high), and ISO 1600, f5/6 when I shoot with the flash aiming my subject. That's for candid in the church or reception. In the studio is a different ball game. I use 1/160, f/5.6, ISO 100. And of course, I use 5500K most of the time.

JOrtiz Regular Member • Posts: 131
Re: Question on attached photo

I did not mention you can make your own style using Canon Picture Style Editor.

Also, I do not know if you shoot RAW or JPEG. If RAW, convert to TIFF using Canon's DPP first and then go to Lightroom 4 and make your adjustments. Using DPP first will oversaturate your images a lot.

OP cpharm86 Senior Member • Posts: 1,743
Re: Question on attached photo

Thanks for your input. I will try the conversion from DPP to LR4.

I am using the Canon 600EX-RT flash. I did bounce off a card but did not use any manual settings with the flash. The pictures that day were all shot jpeg.

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OP cpharm86 Senior Member • Posts: 1,743
Re: Question on attached photo

Absolutic wrote:

It is hard to figure out with most venues because they often have a combination of different types of lights plus strobes etc... so the safest way is to shoot in RAW and fix WB in post... it is very easy with Lightroom WB tool just click on something white or gray in your photo and voila.

In regards to just shooting RAW, depending on the venue would it still be advisable to adjust WB in camera then adjust if necessary in LR4 or just use AWB RAW and adjust later?

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MASTERPPA Contributing Member • Posts: 867
I have your solution for FUTURE shooting and to make the current one better ;)

Ok, their is a little you can do with this in LR.. You bring down the SAT of just red and orange.

Someone mentioned here already, but use a color gell on your flash when shooting in 3000K light.

If the room is VERY red, use a 2600-3000K Gel. your flash will now MATCH the ambient light. If its KINDA warm, use 3200-3500 slightly orange.

It is AMAZING how well it works. In churches I use their nature light with a little orange from my flash to fill in the eyes.

This is on of those things that separates the pros from the amateurs. Color gels on their lights

cpharm86 wrote:

Just getting back into photography this year so this question is no doubt basic. I tend to get a red/orange hue with candid shots using flash in most venues. Some are more prominant than others. I know I can fix in LR4 etc but is there anything I can do to reduce prior to developing? 

Lens was Canon 24-70L ii

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