Shoulder strap ruins D-800

Started Nov 19, 2012 | Discussions
xrdbear Veteran Member • Posts: 3,939
Re: Shoulder strap ruins D-800

orchidblooms wrote:

I 100% agree - this is not the camera to use a bottom mount strap --

You said something earlier about wobbling on a tripod and having posted about it before. I can't recall this, could you elaborate?

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Brian
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yvind Strm Veteran Member • Posts: 4,130
Re: Useful info: stay away from Black rapid straps and the like

8TAV wrote:

TOF GUY

This is my first attempt to enter information on this site in maybe 10 years. I have never tried to enter a photo and I'm not highly motivated to try to learn how to do it. Frankly I have been amazed at the people who have attacked my veracity. What possible moitive would I have to try to mislead? Maybe Wednesday I will fire up the 105 macro on the D-700 and try and take the pix of the opening under the lens on the D-800 but I don't plan to spend much time trying to figure out how to post it to weird people who challenge my veracity or motives. Really I don't give a damn if people believe me, my whole thought was to save others from similar event. I am amazed at the attitude of some of the people here.

Message for the doubters. You're right! I dreamed up the whole thing and tried to make fools of all of you but you clever people saw through my effort. Damn, you are really clever even those of you who don't know how to use the english language. Have a nice holiday!

Hello

Ah. Don´t mind those people. Just ignore them. Protection by anonymity brings up the worst in some. Its Internet of today.

Whatever the cause of the incident was, you have made people think about a possible problem, and you might have saved someone (maybe me) a lot of dollars. Thanks a lot for that. I never use a strap in that way, but often carry the camera on tripod for hours. I would hate it if I had to dismount it for every time I moved. So I will keep an eye on things.

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Kind regards
Øyvind

OP 8TAV Forum Member • Posts: 95
Re: Thank you *very much* for posting these pictures !

TOF Guy

The gap is definitely widest right under the lens and there is no gap at the battery side. There is a slight gap on the other end - viewers right. You asked about the back and that is a good question.  There is no gap on the back.

Seems to me that if there was indeed some impact incident that was hard enough to cause the damage seen it would have left a mark on the case somewhere on the front.

primeshooter
primeshooter Veteran Member • Posts: 5,090
tripod sockets aren't for carrying the weight of cameras/lenses

Dalmellington wrote:

8TAV wrote:

The bottom of the camera is bent down at the tripod socket. Why do you say that the shoulder strap didn't cause the damage?

Apologies,you didn't mention that the strap was attached to the tripod socket rather than the lugs.

Another reason to not use these daft straps attached to the tripod socket. You where not using the camera "as intended" so maybe it is actually your own fault in this case...The tripod socket is for putting the camera on a tripod. No where in the Nikon manual does it say you should suspend the weight of a camera and lens from it. Sorry to state the obvious, take it as a very expensive lesson learned, and that sucks. Black rapid stuff I don't get in general...partly for this reason.

yvind Strm Veteran Member • Posts: 4,130
Re: Shoulder strap ruins D-800

OP

Thanks again for starting this thread.

I often had to carry two cameras at a time, and I had two ways of doing it.

Both involved straps in the normal positions.

1. Both cameras around the neck. One with a much shorter strap, so it would hang freely above the other. And with a short lens on.

2. One camera around the neck, the other over the shoulder, but inverted, so the back of the camera faced outwards, not the lens.

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Kind regards
Øyvind

mikemsphoto Senior Member • Posts: 1,804
Re: Tripod threads

I couldn't find a cross section of a D800 online but here's one thru a D3 showing the threads for the tripod socket. I wouldn't carry my beloved cameras upside down suspended only by this little threaded socket, even without a lens attached.

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Dalmellington Junior Member • Posts: 25
Re: Assuming that the D800 plate is screwed into the bottom of the body, maybe the body points..

8TAV wrote:

Oh yes there was a warrantee and I sent a copy of it with the original shipment.

I have written two letters and thus far there has not been any replies.

Your suggestion to talk to a manager is good but trying to get to one is frustrating and then getting to one that understands the problem and can make a useful comment near impossible. Would you know any person and their address?

Maybe if some of the nice guys on this site would write to Nikon telling them about this issue and requesting a comment about the event would produce some action. Ten letters on the same issue might make a company notice.

How about you write 20 letters? I would if it had happened to me (I have a d800e, and wouldn't have hesitated to use a tripod strap if it had suited me) - as I said, it's  a 3k camera- as per nikons own engineering you can support the camera body with a heavy lens on it's tripod socket,so  how were you supposed to know that a prime lens and a tripod attached strap would render the camera useless?  Call them every day til you get some satisfaction. get in touch with nikon worldwide, or nikon Japan. Send a letter from a lawyer threatening legal action. Ask the dealer who sold you the camera for a replacement- contact your local consumer rights group, register a complaint against nikon and the dealer-let nikon and the dealer know you registered a complaint- All of these cost you a lot less than replacing the camera. If you make enough noise for long enough, Im fairly sure they'll eventually want to make you go away- accept nothing less than a replacement. Squeaky wheel man.

OP 8TAV Forum Member • Posts: 95
Re: Tripod threads

This cross section drawing does explain how the damage on my camera is on the front and not on the back.  In the drawing the base is keyed to the back which will hold it pretty tightly.  The front is no doubt screwed into internal frame components but no screws are shown.  If those screws or the body threads are stretched the a gap will be produced.

I still think that the load on the tripod thread is the most likely cause of what has happened.

Thanks for sending this along.

Lance B Forum Pro • Posts: 32,003
Ok, is the tripod socket still level?

8TAV wrote:

Lance, I didn't write that tripod socket is deformed. The plate across the bottom of the camera does hold the 1/4 -20 tripod thread and that entire plate has moved. The threads have not been distorted to my knowledge.

Ok, so lets get this straight. Is the tripod socket still in the correct alignment, ie still looks flat and level and looks to be connected to the internal chassis?

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sshoihet Senior Member • Posts: 2,629
Re: tripod sockets aren't for carrying the weight of cameras/lenses

primeshooter wrote:

Dalmellington wrote:

8TAV wrote:

The bottom of the camera is bent down at the tripod socket. Why do you say that the shoulder strap didn't cause the damage?

Apologies,you didn't mention that the strap was attached to the tripod socket rather than the lugs.

Another reason to not use these daft straps attached to the tripod socket. You where not using the camera "as intended" so maybe it is actually your own fault in this case...The tripod socket is for putting the camera on a tripod. No where in the Nikon manual does it say you should suspend the weight of a camera and lens from it. Sorry to state the obvious, take it as a very expensive lesson learned, and that sucks. Black rapid stuff I don't get in general...partly for this reason.

the manufacturer does not need to tell you that you can do something, they need to tell you when you can't do something.  Having worked for several manufacturers, in design and product support, I've seen several cases where we had to pay for repairs due to damage from unintended use where it was not made clear that something shouldn't be done.
In any case, the manufacturer is not claiming the damage came from misuse of the tripod socket, they are saying the damage was caused by abuse (impact). I would continue to pursue this matter with Nikon.

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captain fid Regular Member • Posts: 149
Re: Assuming that the D800 plate is screwed into the bottom of the body, maybe the body points..

Dalmellington wrote:

8TAV wrote:

Oh yes there was a warrantee and I sent a copy of it with the original shipment.

I have written two letters and thus far there has not been any replies.

Your suggestion to talk to a manager is good but trying to get to one is frustrating and then getting to one that understands the problem and can make a useful comment near impossible. Would you know any person and their address?

Maybe if some of the nice guys on this site would write to Nikon telling them about this issue and requesting a comment about the event would produce some action. Ten letters on the same issue might make a company notice.

How about you write 20 letters? I would if it had happened to me (I have a d800e, and wouldn't have hesitated to use a tripod strap if it had suited me) - as I said, it's a 3k camera- as per nikons own engineering you can support the camera body with a heavy lens on it's tripod socket,so how were you supposed to know that a prime lens and a tripod attached strap would render the camera useless? Call them every day til you get some satisfaction. get in touch with nikon worldwide, or nikon Japan. Send a letter from a lawyer threatening legal action. Ask the dealer who sold you the camera for a replacement- contact your local consumer rights group, register a complaint against nikon and the dealer-let nikon and the dealer know you registered a complaint- All of these cost you a lot less than replacing the camera. If you make enough noise for long enough, Im fairly sure they'll eventually want to make you go away- accept nothing less than a replacement. Squeaky wheel man.

Squeaky wheel is right, though I think spending that much time usually yields nothing (as an individual).

I don't know the area of the country you are in OP, but I would consider letting someone 'advocate' for you. Where I am, the local news programs love stories like these. And you know what, it works. Consider some of the photography magazines, write to their advice columns, see if you can get Ken (master blaster) Rockwell to inquire with Nikon.

I am serious.

I love the Nikon brand, but I do think they are having (at least) some QC issues today. But this sounds more like a design issue.

Regardless of the direction of force placed on that screw mount, at least a disclaimer would have been in order. I often (mistakenly) have thought that was the strongest support of our cameras, likened to the structural reinforcement of the tail hook on a Navy fighter through its frame.

Nikon could care less if you had reported a new D600 accumulating oil/dust but I guarantee the company will be careful in their response to dpreview or Len Rental.

Best of luck to you.

I know it is an impressive camera but this just makes me pause further before pulling the trigger on a D800. If a camera this expensive has to be 'babied', it's probably not the best camera for me.

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Tommot1965 Senior Member • Posts: 1,039
Re: tripod sockets aren't for carrying the weight of cameras/lenses

primeshooter wrote:

Dalmellington wrote:

8TAV wrote:

The bottom of the camera is bent down at the tripod socket. Why do you say that the shoulder strap didn't cause the damage?

Apologies,you didn't mention that the strap was attached to the tripod socket rather than the lugs.

Another reason to not use these daft straps attached to the tripod socket. You where not using the camera "as intended" so maybe it is actually your own fault in this case...The tripod socket is for putting the camera on a tripod. No where in the Nikon manual does it say you should suspend the weight of a camera and lens from it. Sorry to state the obvious, take it as a very expensive lesson learned, and that sucks. Black rapid stuff I don't get in general...partly for this reason.

so when using a tripod you only use it in landscape orientation ..never portrait or suspended up side down while doing a macro ?

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Jim Trainor Regular Member • Posts: 270
Ditched my Black Rapid strap
1

after a long hike carrying my D800 with a 24-120 attached. My paranoia drove me to constantly check that the connection between the screw and the tripod socket was tight. Which was a good thing. To my chagrin, more than once I found that the connection was loose. I cannot trust this system again.

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larrywilson
larrywilson Veteran Member • Posts: 6,671
Re: tripod sockets aren't for carrying the weight of cameras/lenses

One last comment, frustrated over the interpretations of a lot of the comments under this thread.  The tripod socket is not meant to be strong enough to have a force to act upon it sideways with much force.  It is meant to hold a camera or lens in place on a tripod so that the force is more or less a straight pull on the tripod mount screw hole.

The hole in the bottom of a camera is called a tripod socket and nothing is stated anywhere that it is to be used for carrying the camera in a sling.

TOF guy - I was refering to mounting an L bracket before the damage and not after the damage for additional strength for a sideways pull on the tripod socket.  Yes the L bracket will not have a strengthing affect for a straight pull, but will for a sideways pull which can happen when using the socket for an attachment to a carrying strap.

And yes I don't think the newer cameras are as strong as the cameras of the past when less thickness of materials to save weight.

Anyway good thread, enjoyed it.

Larry

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M Lammerse
M Lammerse Forum Pro • Posts: 11,455
That depends on.

That totally depends on the law/country,

Here in Netherlands (EU) when it's by common sense clear that you can't use an object or part of an object for a certain purpose the manufacturer does not have to specifically warn you, except when health/safety issues are involved. However, usually manufacturers cover it by mentioning "for intended use only"

In relation to the camera. The baseplate is not intended to be used to connect a camera strap to it. The camera has dedicated holes for a neck strap as explained in the manual.

Michel

sshoihet wrote:

the manufacturer does not need to tell you that you can do something, they need to tell you when you can't do something. Having worked for several manufacturers, in design and product support, I've seen several cases where we had to pay for repairs due to damage from unintended use where it was not made clear that something shouldn't be done.
In any case, the manufacturer is not claiming the damage came from misuse of the tripod socket, they are saying the damage was caused by abuse (impact). I would continue to pursue this matter with Nikon.

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Zardoz
Zardoz Senior Member • Posts: 1,249
Re: Shoulder strap ruins D-800
1

All that provides is evidence that Canon users can also be idiots.

primeshooter
primeshooter Veteran Member • Posts: 5,090
Re: tripod sockets aren't for carrying the weight of cameras/lenses
4

Tommot1965 wrote:

primeshooter wrote:

Dalmellington wrote:

8TAV wrote:

The bottom of the camera is bent down at the tripod socket. Why do you say that the shoulder strap didn't cause the damage?

Apologies,you didn't mention that the strap was attached to the tripod socket rather than the lugs.

Another reason to not use these daft straps attached to the tripod socket. You where not using the camera "as intended" so maybe it is actually your own fault in this case...The tripod socket is for putting the camera on a tripod. No where in the Nikon manual does it say you should suspend the weight of a camera and lens from it. Sorry to state the obvious, take it as a very expensive lesson learned, and that sucks. Black rapid stuff I don't get in general...partly for this reason.

so when using a tripod you only use it in landscape orientation ..never portrait or suspended up side down while doing a macro

There is a large difference between a static force (Mass) of camera and lens suspended on it's side or upside down through this socket, to the huge forces of mass and inertia when walking, running, also the shear forces that would act on the socket would be increased. It's pretty obvious that the camera strap goes through x2 metal locators on the top of the camera and the force is split between these, and these are connected into the chassis. I also think it's pretty obvious that's how it's intended to be used.

M Lammerse
M Lammerse Forum Pro • Posts: 11,455
Re: Ditched my Black Rapid strap

Hi Jim,

I never ever got the understanding why people want to connect their neck/shoulderstrap at the most unlogic/instable place of a camera, at the bottom.

I'm a news and reportage photographer and I don't even like to think about having one of camera's dingeling upside down besides my hip, hitting constantly myself or people in a crowd around me.

I really wonder who invented it and with what purpose...probable he/she is more into marketing than into photography. And if it's really aimed at practical usage, what kind of photography?

Non of my colleagues is using it by the way. We all use neck straps, and mostly around our neck instead of twisted around our wrists (looks more cooler I know, but not practical)

Michel

Jim Trainor wrote:

after a long hike carrying my D800 with a 24-120 attached. My paranoia drove me to constantly check that the connection between the screw and the tripod socket was tight. Which was a good thing. To my chagrin, more than once I found that the connection was loose. I cannot trust this system again.

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- To observe without evaluation is the highest form of human intelligence -
http://www.fotopropaganda.com
http://www.fotopropaganda.com/blog
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egk4260 Contributing Member • Posts: 673
Re: Assuming that the D800 plate is screwed into the bottom of the body, maybe the body points..

8TAV wrote:

Oh yes there was a warrantee and I sent a copy of it with the original shipment.

I have written two letters and thus far there has not been any replies.

Your suggestion to talk to a manager is good but trying to get to one is frustrating and then getting to one that understands the problem and can make a useful comment near impossible. Would you know any person and their address?

Maybe if some of the nice guys on this site would write to Nikon telling them about this issue and requesting a comment about the event would produce some action. Ten letters on the same issue might make a company notice.

I did pose this question of Nikon about a year ago and got theses responses ( I have deleted names from text but they are otherwise unchanged):

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OldDigiman Senior Member • Posts: 1,960
Re: Ditched my Black Rapid strap
1

My take on this is that (1) a $3000 camera that can't take the kinds of stresses mentioned here has pretty pathetic design, IMO, (2) the bottom-carrying style straps are common enough so that if the camera can't handle being suspended by one, Nikon should put a disclaimer in the user guide, (3) I'm bummed because my practice has been to carry my camera over my shoulder attached to a monopod, which obviously I wont' be able to do with my newly acquired D800E.

I hope the OP can get coverage through his credit card.  Another alternative (albeit a hassle) would be to sue Nikon in small claims court (the legal theory in California would be "breach of the implied warranty of merchantability" (Civil Code section 1791.1), given how common it is for people to carry cameras attached to tripods on their shoulder, there is a good argument that the camera is not "fit for the ordinary purposes for which such goods are used").

OP, I also would let your strap maker know what happened, once this problem is known, they are obliged to disclose it in the promotional materials.  I hate to think how many people this could potentially happen to.

But bottom line is that this is a design flaw in the camera, despite what the apologists have been saying about the forces involved.

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