DXO sensor scores for X-Pro1?

Started Nov 13, 2012 | Discussions
Sergey Borachev Veteran Member • Posts: 3,825
DXO sensor scores for X-Pro1?

Hi,

Has DXO tested the X-Pro1 yet?

Fujifilm X-Pro1
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Adamant Contributing Member • Posts: 729
Re: DXO sensor scores for X-Pro1?

No.

OP Sergey Borachev Veteran Member • Posts: 3,825
Re: DXO sensor scores for X-Pro1?
4

Some major brand cameras get tested even before they are available for sale, like the D600.

However cameras that are truly significant with breakthrough sensor performance keep being ignored. This is what happened to the OMD E-M5, which had its scores (already measured by DXO) delayed in publishing for about half a year until the end of Photokina at a time of lots of new camera announcements, almost as if they wanted to slip it without notice or to let the other brands' cameras sell better with a delay. I am afraid we are seeing the same thing happening with Fuji's X-Tran sensor scores in the X-Pro1 and X-E1. Probably too good to publish, as it is not a major brands or might upset the other brands.

Zardoz
Zardoz Senior Member • Posts: 1,249
Re: DXO sensor scores for X-Pro1?
2

This DxOMark conspiracy nonsense has got to stop. You have zero evidence of DxO holding back results for any reason other than to verify that they have tested correctly. You're also VASTLY overestimating how much of an effect DxOMark and similar technical tests affect the sales of a particular camera. Only a small subset of potential buyers care, or would even bother to look. It's all about the marketing and channel access.

If you're desperate for results, look at the DxOMark for the Nikon D7000. The X-Pro 1 (and X-E 1) has the same sensor. The scores won't be identical due to the silly X-Trans CFA and differing camera electronics and processing. The low-light ISO will be 2800-3000, the color depth around 21 bits, and 13 Evs dynamic range.

Apsphoto Contributing Member • Posts: 503
Re: DXO sensor scores for X-Pro1?
1

Speaking of conspiracies where is the proof that this is the same sensor as the Nikon D7000? The filter array is something that is add to the wafers at the end of the manufacturing process, it is not something added later, so where is the proof that this is the same sensor? All I see is people making guesses, I would like to see the actual proof if it exists.

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Zardoz
Zardoz Senior Member • Posts: 1,249
Re: DXO sensor scores for X-Pro1?
2

Wut? The CFA is under the microlenses.  Good luck adding that after the fact.  I'm not sure why it's so hard for you to understand that Fuji customized an existing Sony design with the X-Trans CFA.  And we know the model number of the sensor:  IMX071. Open your X-Pro 1 up to verify.

But no, it's much easier to believe that Fuji's tiny sensor R&D department and non-existent CMOS sensor manufacturing arm have developed a world beater all on their lonesome.

Reality will be here, waiting for you, when you're ready.

viking79
viking79 Forum Pro • Posts: 14,137
Re: DXO sensor scores for X-Pro1?
2

Zardoz wrote:

Wut? The CFA is under the microlenses. Good luck adding that after the fact. I'm not sure why it's so hard for you to understand that Fuji customized an existing Sony design with the X-Trans CFA. And we know the model number of the sensor: IMX071. Open your X-Pro 1 up to verify.

But no, it's much easier to believe that Fuji's tiny sensor R&D department and non-existent CMOS sensor manufacturing arm have developed a world beater all on their lonesome.

Reality will be here, waiting for you, when you're ready.

I think what he was looking for was some links to a teardown that shows the Sony sensor, or maybe a chipworks analysis or something.

Eric

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OP Sergey Borachev Veteran Member • Posts: 3,825
Re: DXO sensor scores for X-Pro1?

My guess is that it will be February when DXO scores for this sensor will be published.  We already know how good it is from all the reviews, tests and other forms of feedback, so again DXO is becoming irrelevant when it keeps ignoring cameras that have sensors with really significant sensor performance.

viking79
viking79 Forum Pro • Posts: 14,137
Re: DXO sensor scores for X-Pro1?

viking79 wrote:

Zardoz wrote:

Wut? The CFA is under the microlenses. Good luck adding that after the fact. I'm not sure why it's so hard for you to understand that Fuji customized an existing Sony design with the X-Trans CFA. And we know the model number of the sensor: IMX071. Open your X-Pro 1 up to verify.

But no, it's much easier to believe that Fuji's tiny sensor R&D department and non-existent CMOS sensor manufacturing arm have developed a world beater all on their lonesome.

Reality will be here, waiting for you, when you're ready.

I think what he was looking for was some links to a teardown that shows the Sony sensor, or maybe a chipworks analysis or something.

Eric

I found a teardown of the x100 that shows it has the imx038 sensor from Sony, but something similar for the Fuji XPro1 would be nice.  There are other 16 MP sensors that could have modified CFA's as well, like from Aptina.  I imagine it is a modified IM071, but some evidence of that would be nice.

Eric

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pkincy
pkincy Contributing Member • Posts: 808
Re: DXO sensor scores for X-Pro1?

The fact that DxO has not spent enought time to understand the sensor doesn't bother me on any score basis, because I know how good the sensor is.  It does make my DxO software pretty irrelevant however.

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smatty Senior Member • Posts: 1,994
Real world relevance of DXnikOn
2

Seriously, who cares about a theoretical DXO measurement? Looking of real world examples of Nikon D600 and Canon 1Dx and then seeing the scores of 94 vs. 82 I seriously doubt the real world relevance of these results.

But besides Nikon cameras always scoring better than Canon cameras it is interesting to see that the Canon 1Dx test result was published 5 month after it was shipped while the D600 result was published 1 month after it has been shipping...

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Emacs23 Regular Member • Posts: 454
Re: DXO sensor scores for X-Pro1?

Zardoz wrote:

This DxOMark conspiracy nonsense has got to stop. You have zero evidence of DxO holding back results for any reason other than to verify that they have tested correctly. You're also VASTLY overestimating how much of an effect DxOMark and similar technical tests affect the sales of a particular camera. Only a small subset of potential buyers care, or would even bother to look. It's all about the marketing and channel access.

If you're desperate for results, look at the DxOMark for the Nikon D7000. The X-Pro 1 (and X-E 1) has the same sensor. The scores won't be identical due to the silly X-Trans CFA and differing camera electronics and processing. The low-light ISO will be 2800-3000, the color depth around 21 bits, and 13 Evs dynamic range.

Not sure if this thing will be ever tested: it doesn't look wise to support niche CFA that is unlikely to exist for a long time. It looks much more profitable to develop better NR algorithms

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Bjrn SWE
Bjrn SWE Regular Member • Posts: 432
Re: DXO sensor scores for X-Pro1?
2

Maybe it is because of the new technology in the X-trans sensor that the X-Pro 1 or X-E1 have not been tested yet. The DXO algorithms may just not work for this sensor!?

What is really important to realize about the DXO Mark scores, is that the figures does not tell how good a sensor is, only how well it scores in the DXO Marks sensor test. The figures indicate something about the characteristics, but it does not tell how the sensor performs is in real life, neither what the image quality is like.

My personal opinion about the X-trans sensor is that it performs real well at high ISOs, but is not as sharp and does not give the same amount of details as conventional APS-C Bayer sensors at low ISOs. Prove me wrong and I will change my opinion!

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Asylum Photo
Asylum Photo Senior Member • Posts: 1,277
Re: DXO sensor scores for X-Pro1?
1

I assume it's because their raw software isn't ready for the X-Trans yet.

If it's not, you end up with an issue like DPReview and ACR. Completely inaccurate results due to the inaccuracy of the raw converter.

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Gaffman
Gaffman Regular Member • Posts: 114
Re: Real world relevance of DXnikOn
2

Glad I'm not the only person who thinks DXO are heavily backed by Nikon or at the very least skew their results towards a heavy resolution bias that favors the big N immensely.

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dengx Senior Member • Posts: 1,023
Re: DXO sensor scores for X-Pro1?

Sergey Borachev wrote:

Hi,

Has DXO tested the X-Pro1 yet?

Not until the DXO Optics Pro module for X-Pro1 is released.

And they do not even plan to release one.

Regards

Zardoz
Zardoz Senior Member • Posts: 1,249
Re: Real world relevance of DXnikOn

Why is the Fuji forum so uniquely packed with paranoid fools?

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