No bailouts for Sony, Panasonic, or Sharp

Started Nov 9, 2012 | Discussions
HatWearingFool
HatWearingFool Senior Member • Posts: 1,335
No bailouts for Sony, Panasonic, or Sharp

Great. Just bought into Sony Hopefuly their restructuring works out. But it looks like Sharp is done.

http://arstechnica.com/business/2012/11/sonys-financial-rating-falls-to-just-above-junk/

What are the odds of another company picking up the camera division if the giant topples?

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rio911
rio911 Contributing Member • Posts: 973
Re: No bailouts for Sony, Panasonic, or Sharp

You are kidding right? And probably still believe in Santa?

The fact that Sony posted poor financial results, means that they simply hid their profits very well, i.e. like buying a company like Olympus. 

If a company like Sony, and Sharp and Panasonic for that matter, companies that are OEM = Original Equipment Manufacture, if they go under, what is going to happen to the companies buying from them like Nikon, Apple, etc...

Just my 2cents,

rio

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Peter McNeill Senior Member • Posts: 1,554
Re: No bailouts for Sony, Panasonic, or Sharp

rio911 wrote:

You are kidding right? And probably still believe in Santa?

The fact that Sony posted poor financial results, means that they simply hid their profits very well, i.e. like buying a company like Olympus.

If a company like Sony, and Sharp and Panasonic for that matter, companies that are OEM = Original Equipment Manufacture, if they go under, what is going to happen to the companies buying from them like Nikon, Apple, etc...

Just my 2cents,

rio

Yes, lets see how good Pentax will be when they have to crawl back begging to Samsung for sensors. Maxie aka Gotta Love Em, ol'bean, good to see you've come out of the closet although I'm surprised you didn't post one of your pics of your dream lovers?  No matter what Moody's says, the imagining division of Sony is one that is posting profit... yes, maybe 60% loss in the P&S end but that is only a small piece of the imaging division. But then again finance and math aren't maxipads strong suit. <shrug> Oh, and go thumb me, moron. lol

Sam_Oslo
Sam_Oslo Veteran Member • Posts: 3,055
No bailouts for nobody
3

Financial crises is not limited to Sony or Japan, it is destroying the whole US and EU economy actually. Bailouts are for big bankers, not for industry. It is a way of transferring all wealth from ordinary middle class people to few big bankers.

Current financial crises has started with subprime mortgage in US, where many US-home owners have lost their life savings. Big-bankers/speculators has repackaged the same garbage and sold it again and again, to many governments and funds around he world. These crises in EU and Japan/Sony are just the after shake of US-earthquake. Many other companies are going down too, if you bordered to pay attention.

Only few big-bankers are getting bail out, nobody else.

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remylebeau
remylebeau Regular Member • Posts: 293
Re: No bailouts for nobody

Sony is doing fine I have shares and the reports if you look into them they're doing some very complex things with their assets and finances.

In the past year alone they put out nearly 1 billion to buy Ericsson's share in the Sony/Ericsson brand so it's 100% Sony owned now. Plus the $300+ million they spend to be the largest shareholder in Olympus.

They're pretty secure in that they are supplies of many parts to many companies, and their diverse portfolio makes it hard for them to sink OR swim.

Sony Music took a hit but Sony movies did very well this year. Sony actually has a credit/finance business that's quite large and quite profitable.

So overall they're trimming the fat I'd say and focusing on what works. And do your relief I hope they believe in digital media, and are focusing top priority in gaining shares in the camera and video camera markets.

The NEX brand is quite new and already almost neck and neck with Panasonic/Olympus in mirrorless sales. Plus their new video camera line is seriously threatening Canon's, Panasonics and Red's market.

Sony is pretty diverse so that's both a strength and an hinderance at times, but corrections are good and it looks like they're adjusting in the right direction.

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cyainparadise Veteran Member • Posts: 5,577
Re: No bailouts for nobody
1

remylebeau wrote:

Sony is doing fine I have shares and the reports if you look into them they're doing some very complex things with their assets and finances.

In the past year alone they put out nearly 1 billion to buy Ericsson's share in the Sony/Ericsson brand so it's 100% Sony owned now. Plus the $300+ million they spend to be the largest shareholder in Olympus.

They're pretty secure in that they are supplies of many parts to many companies, and their diverse portfolio makes it hard for them to sink OR swim.

Sony Music took a hit but Sony movies did very well this year. Sony actually has a credit/finance business that's quite large and quite profitable.

So overall they're trimming the fat I'd say and focusing on what works. And do your relief I hope they believe in digital media, and are focusing top priority in gaining shares in the camera and video camera markets.

The NEX brand is quite new and already almost neck and neck with Panasonic/Olympus in mirrorless sales. Plus their new video camera line is seriously threatening Canon's, Panasonics and Red's market.

Sony is pretty diverse so that's both a strength and an hinderance at times, but corrections are good and it looks like they're adjusting in the right direction.

Sony is too diverse when it comes to the camera business. Even with their hands full with Alpha and NEX, there are rumors of them coming out with a FF E-mount system. That would make A-mount users a little worried about Sony's commitment to the A-mount and filling out the gaps in the 'system', some which have been around from the start.

Sony seems to be too interested in coming out with new categories, and not completing what they've started.

They're running around and around in circles, and not fixing the problems they have, before creating more problems.

Sam_Oslo
Sam_Oslo Veteran Member • Posts: 3,055
Re: No bailouts for nobody

remylebeau wrote:

Sony is doing fine I have shares and the reports if you look into them they're doing some very complex things with their assets and finances.

In the past year alone they put out nearly 1 billion to buy Ericsson's share in the Sony/Ericsson brand so it's 100% Sony owned now. Plus the $300+ million they spend to be the largest shareholder in Olympus.

They're pretty secure in that they are supplies of many parts to many companies, and their diverse portfolio makes it hard for them to sink OR swim.

Sony Music took a hit but Sony movies did very well this year. Sony actually has a credit/finance business that's quite large and quite profitable.

So overall they're trimming the fat I'd say and focusing on what works. And do your relief I hope they believe in digital media, and are focusing top priority in gaining shares in the camera and video camera markets.

The NEX brand is quite new and already almost neck and neck with Panasonic/Olympus in mirrorless sales. Plus their new video camera line is seriously threatening Canon's, Panasonics and Red's market.

Sony is pretty diverse so that's both a strength and an hinderance at times, but corrections are good and it looks like they're adjusting in the right direction.

I agree, Sony is doing much better relative to many other crises-hit EU, US and Japanese companies.  But there is a general flow of investments, business, and wealth from west towards east. This will result in flow of high-tech  technology too, soon.  Sony, and other Japanese high tech companies, are slowly but surly loosing ground to Cheap-China companies.

Big-bankers has moved their capital to China, India and beyond to take advantage of cheap/free labor to maximize profit, the rest will follow too soon or later. Many governments are trying to deny/cover the reality, because it is too depressing and may result in mass-revolts too, but nobody can deny the bankruptcy of EU any longer. But financial crises in EU are a result of US crises, so a US and Japan bankruptcy will be a fact sooner than later.

 Sam_Oslo's gear list:Sam_Oslo's gear list
Sony SLT-A77 Sony 50mm F1.4 Sony 20mm F2.8 Tamron SP AF 90mm F/2.8 Di Macro +2 more
cyainparadise Veteran Member • Posts: 5,577
Re: No bailouts for nobody

Sam_Oslo wrote:

remylebeau wrote:

Sony is doing fine I have shares and the reports if you look into them they're doing some very complex things with their assets and finances.

In the past year alone they put out nearly 1 billion to buy Ericsson's share in the Sony/Ericsson brand so it's 100% Sony owned now. Plus the $300+ million they spend to be the largest shareholder in Olympus.

They're pretty secure in that they are supplies of many parts to many companies, and their diverse portfolio makes it hard for them to sink OR swim.

Sony Music took a hit but Sony movies did very well this year. Sony actually has a credit/finance business that's quite large and quite profitable.

So overall they're trimming the fat I'd say and focusing on what works. And do your relief I hope they believe in digital media, and are focusing top priority in gaining shares in the camera and video camera markets.

The NEX brand is quite new and already almost neck and neck with Panasonic/Olympus in mirrorless sales. Plus their new video camera line is seriously threatening Canon's, Panasonics and Red's market.

Sony is pretty diverse so that's both a strength and an hinderance at times, but corrections are good and it looks like they're adjusting in the right direction.

I agree, Sony is doing much better relative to many other crises-hit EU, US and Japanese companies. But there is a general flow of investments, business, and wealth from west towards east. This will result in flow of high-tech technology too, soon. Sony, and other Japanese high tech companies, are slowly but surly loosing ground to Cheap-China companies.

Big-bankers has moved their capital to China, India and beyond to take advantage of cheap/free labor to maximize profit, the rest will follow too soon or later. Many governments are trying to deny/cover the reality, because it is too depressing and may result in mass-revolts too, but nobody can deny the bankruptcy of EU any longer. But financial crises in EU are a result of US crises, so a US and Japan bankruptcy will be a fact sooner than later.

China ain't a source of cheap labor like they used to be. The middle class is growing as the Chinese demand more wages and access to quality goods. I'm working with a company that signed a deal with a Taiwanese company to ship LED lights made in the USA, into China, as the American made product is better than what the Chinese make.

And, a friend of mine, who was having ceramic household items in China and exporting them into the islands, told me that it's too expensive to make them there anymore. Even clothing companies are moving production out of China and into India or Vietnam. Vietnam doesn't have the capability to make the printed clothe, which is still being made in China. Plus, the Chinese aren't planting cotton fields like they used to, so that's going toother countries.

And, there was a report in the news recently, about Foxconn (which makes Apple products and many other products) possibly opening production facilities in the US.

Sam_Oslo
Sam_Oslo Veteran Member • Posts: 3,055
Re: No bailouts for nobody

cyainparadise wrote:

Sam_Oslo wrote:

remylebeau wrote:

Sony is doing fine I have shares and the reports if you look into them they're doing some very complex things with their assets and finances.

In the past year alone they put out nearly 1 billion to buy Ericsson's share in the Sony/Ericsson brand so it's 100% Sony owned now. Plus the $300+ million they spend to be the largest shareholder in Olympus.

They're pretty secure in that they are supplies of many parts to many companies, and their diverse portfolio makes it hard for them to sink OR swim.

Sony Music took a hit but Sony movies did very well this year. Sony actually has a credit/finance business that's quite large and quite profitable.

So overall they're trimming the fat I'd say and focusing on what works. And do your relief I hope they believe in digital media, and are focusing top priority in gaining shares in the camera and video camera markets.

The NEX brand is quite new and already almost neck and neck with Panasonic/Olympus in mirrorless sales. Plus their new video camera line is seriously threatening Canon's, Panasonics and Red's market.

Sony is pretty diverse so that's both a strength and an hinderance at times, but corrections are good and it looks like they're adjusting in the right direction.

I agree, Sony is doing much better relative to many other crises-hit EU, US and Japanese companies. But there is a general flow of investments, business, and wealth from west towards east. This will result in flow of high-tech technology too, soon. Sony, and other Japanese high tech companies, are slowly but surly loosing ground to Cheap-China companies.

Big-bankers has moved their capital to China, India and beyond to take advantage of cheap/free labor to maximize profit, the rest will follow too soon or later. Many governments are trying to deny/cover the reality, because it is too depressing and may result in mass-revolts too, but nobody can deny the bankruptcy of EU any longer. But financial crises in EU are a result of US crises, so a US and Japan bankruptcy will be a fact sooner than later.

China ain't a source of cheap labor like they used to be. The middle class is growing as the Chinese demand more wages and access to quality goods. I'm working with a company that signed a deal with a Taiwanese company to ship LED lights made in the USA, into China, as the American made product is better than what the Chinese make.

And, a friend of mine, who was having ceramic household items in China and exporting them into the islands, told me that it's too expensive to make them there anymore. Even clothing companies are moving production out of China and into India or Vietnam. Vietnam doesn't have the capability to make the printed clothe, which is still being made in China. Plus, the Chinese aren't planting cotton fields like they used to, so that's going toother countries.

And, there was a report in the news recently, about Foxconn (which makes Apple products and many other products) possibly opening production facilities in the US.

You have a good point, Chinese are human too and they are naturally developing a taste for the good life too. A desperately poor human/country may work cheap for a period, but not forever. The recent EU and US history, is a living proof.

Human seeks and peruse whatever the society define as success and achievements, naturally.

But the world has enough injustice, and as a result, enough desperately poor people who are willing to work for a slant. Big-bankers keeps moving towards new frontiers in  India, Bangladesh, Burma, and beyond ..., so they have a good source of cheap/free labor for a good while forward.

The big question is, how hard will they dump Japan and EU now. Will they show any mercy or force people/masses to become desperate enough  to work as cheap/free as Bangladesh.

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mick232 Contributing Member • Posts: 896
Re: No bailouts for Sony, Panasonic, or Sharp

rio911 wrote:


If a company like Sony, and Sharp and Panasonic for that matter, companies that are OEM = Original Equipment Manufacture, if they go under, what is going to happen to the companies buying from them like Nikon, Apple, etc...

Well, in that case Apple would probably just buy Sony out of petty cash.

 mick232's gear list:mick232's gear list
Sony Alpha NEX-C3 Sony Alpha a99 Sony 135mm F1.8 ZA Carl Zeiss Sonnar T* Sigma 30mm F2.8 EX DN Tamron SP 24-70mm F2.8 Di VC USD +19 more
remylebeau
remylebeau Regular Member • Posts: 293
Re: No bailouts for nobody

cyainparadise wrote:

remylebeau wrote:

Sony is doing fine I have shares and the reports if you look into them they're doing some very complex things with their assets and finances.

In the past year alone they put out nearly 1 billion to buy Ericsson's share in the Sony/Ericsson brand so it's 100% Sony owned now. Plus the $300+ million they spend to be the largest shareholder in Olympus.

They're pretty secure in that they are supplies of many parts to many companies, and their diverse portfolio makes it hard for them to sink OR swim.

Sony Music took a hit but Sony movies did very well this year. Sony actually has a credit/finance business that's quite large and quite profitable.

So overall they're trimming the fat I'd say and focusing on what works. And do your relief I hope they believe in digital media, and are focusing top priority in gaining shares in the camera and video camera markets.

The NEX brand is quite new and already almost neck and neck with Panasonic/Olympus in mirrorless sales. Plus their new video camera line is seriously threatening Canon's, Panasonics and Red's market.

Sony is pretty diverse so that's both a strength and an hinderance at times, but corrections are good and it looks like they're adjusting in the right direction.

Sony is too diverse when it comes to the camera business. Even with their hands full with Alpha and NEX, there are rumors of them coming out with a FF E-mount system. That would make A-mount users a little worried about Sony's commitment to the A-mount and filling out the gaps in the 'system', some which have been around from the start.

Sony seems to be too interested in coming out with new categories, and not completing what they've started.

They're running around and around in circles, and not fixing the problems they have, before creating more problems.

Yeah that bothers me slightly as well as I would rather focus the cash flow on known properties. However, I also understand the business strategy behind first in market. Their RX100 is a sales hit and despite the ridiculous price of the RX1 it seems to have hit a niche premium market.

I think what Sony is trying to do is explore new frontiers both in technology and market place, and their bet is that those products will strike a cord with niche consumers.

 remylebeau's gear list:remylebeau's gear list
Nikon D3 Sony Alpha a99 Sigma 50mm F1.4 EX DG HSM Tamron AF 28-75mm F/2.8 XR Di LD Aspherical (IF) Tokina AT-X 17-35mm f/4 Pro FX +9 more
Jabez02 Contributing Member • Posts: 643
Re: No bailouts for Sony, Panasonic, or Sharp

Well if rumours are correct Apple is keeping Sharp alive  with a 2 billion dollar prepayment for their LCD screens.

Sharp may or may not survive as a corporation but their factories and product  is important to others.You may not in future see the Sharp brand in the retail market but that may enable them to survive. Sharps loses as a proportion of total sales has been much higher than Sonys.

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sensibill
sensibill Veteran Member • Posts: 5,401
Love this quote:
1

"In this society of capitalism, I believe companies in general should rebuild themselves through their own efforts," Seiji Maehara

What a concept, eh?

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Nikon 1 J1 Sony Alpha a7 II
Michaels7 Contributing Member • Posts: 504
Apple. Last that I'd checked,
1

mick232 wrote:

rio911 wrote:


If a company like Sony, and Sharp and Panasonic for that matter, companies that are OEM = Original Equipment Manufacture, if they go under, what is going to happen to the companies buying from them like Nikon, Apple, etc...

Well, in that case Apple would probably just buy Sony out of petty cash.

Apple's stock weren't doing to well.

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Sony Alpha a99 Sigma 85mm F1.4 EX DG HSM
cyainparadise Veteran Member • Posts: 5,577
Re: No bailouts for nobody

remylebeau wrote:

cyainparadise wrote:

remylebeau wrote:

Sony is doing fine I have shares and the reports if you look into them they're doing some very complex things with their assets and finances.

In the past year alone they put out nearly 1 billion to buy Ericsson's share in the Sony/Ericsson brand so it's 100% Sony owned now. Plus the $300+ million they spend to be the largest shareholder in Olympus.

They're pretty secure in that they are supplies of many parts to many companies, and their diverse portfolio makes it hard for them to sink OR swim.

Sony Music took a hit but Sony movies did very well this year. Sony actually has a credit/finance business that's quite large and quite profitable.

So overall they're trimming the fat I'd say and focusing on what works. And do your relief I hope they believe in digital media, and are focusing top priority in gaining shares in the camera and video camera markets.

The NEX brand is quite new and already almost neck and neck with Panasonic/Olympus in mirrorless sales. Plus their new video camera line is seriously threatening Canon's, Panasonics and Red's market.

Sony is pretty diverse so that's both a strength and an hinderance at times, but corrections are good and it looks like they're adjusting in the right direction.

Sony is too diverse when it comes to the camera business. Even with their hands full with Alpha and NEX, there are rumors of them coming out with a FF E-mount system. That would make A-mount users a little worried about Sony's commitment to the A-mount and filling out the gaps in the 'system', some which have been around from the start.

Sony seems to be too interested in coming out with new categories, and not completing what they've started.

They're running around and around in circles, and not fixing the problems they have, before creating more problems.

Yeah that bothers me slightly as well as I would rather focus the cash flow on known properties. However, I also understand the business strategy behind first in market. Their RX100 is a sales hit and despite the ridiculous price of the RX1 it seems to have hit a niche premium market.

I think what Sony is trying to do is explore new frontiers both in technology and market place, and their bet is that those products will strike a cord with niche consumers.

And, let's not forget Sony's deal with Hasselblad. Oh wait, it seems like everyone already has.

All these little niche segments cost money to develop, and the percentage of market share increase will be small. Instead of concentrating on completing one (or two) complete systems, Sony wants to have 4 or more incomplete systems.

jonikon Veteran Member • Posts: 6,394
Re: No bailouts for nobody
1

cyainparadise wrote:

remylebeau wrote:

The NEX brand is quite new and already almost neck and neck with Panasonic/Olympus in mirrorless sales. Plus their new video camera line is seriously threatening Canon's, Panasonics and Red's market.

Sony is pretty diverse so that's both a strength and an hinderance at times, but corrections are good and it looks like they're adjusting in the right direction.

Sony is too diverse when it comes to the camera business. Even with their hands full with Alpha and NEX, there are rumors of them coming out with a FF E-mount system. That would make A-mount users a little worried about Sony's commitment to the A-mount and filling out the gaps in the 'system', some which have been around from the start.

Sony seems to be too interested in coming out with new categories, and not completing what they've started.

They're running around and around in circles, and not fixing the problems they have, before creating more problems.

The APS-C Alpha cameras are probably safe for a while yet,  but Sony isn't putting much into their full frame camera system anymore as evidenced by the a99 using the AF system and viewfinder of the a77 . Also there is an ominous lack of updating or additions to the FF Sony  lenses in recent years. If Sony cuts anything out of their camera line, the most obvious choice would be their FF camera and lenses that are probably not very profitable.

- Jon

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Jabez02 Contributing Member • Posts: 643
Re: Apple. Last that I'd checked,

Apple is a classic stock that is shorted by the barrow boys, carpetbaggers or whatever you want to call the Wall Street banksters.

Apple has 120 billion in cash and short term assets - what is the market capitalization of Sony ?

 Jabez02's gear list:Jabez02's gear list
Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX10 Sony Alpha DSLR-A850 Sony Alpha a7R Nikon D750 Sony Alpha a7R II +33 more
cyainparadise Veteran Member • Posts: 5,577
You haven't checked lately

jonikon wrote:

cyainparadise wrote:

remylebeau wrote:

The NEX brand is quite new and already almost neck and neck with Panasonic/Olympus in mirrorless sales. Plus their new video camera line is seriously threatening Canon's, Panasonics and Red's market.

Sony is pretty diverse so that's both a strength and an hinderance at times, but corrections are good and it looks like they're adjusting in the right direction.

Sony is too diverse when it comes to the camera business. Even with their hands full with Alpha and NEX, there are rumors of them coming out with a FF E-mount system. That would make A-mount users a little worried about Sony's commitment to the A-mount and filling out the gaps in the 'system', some which have been around from the start.

Sony seems to be too interested in coming out with new categories, and not completing what they've started.

They're running around and around in circles, and not fixing the problems they have, before creating more problems.

The APS-C Alpha cameras are probably safe for a while yet, but Sony isn't putting much into their full frame camera system anymore as evidenced by the a99 using the AF system and viewfinder of the a77 . Also there is an ominous lack of updating or additions to the FF Sony lenses in recent years. If Sony cuts anything out of their camera line, the most obvious choice would be their FF camera and lenses that are probably not very profitable.

- Jon

What about the 500mm G f/4 and the 300mm G f/2.8 II, that have been introduced this year? The first is an addition, and the second is an updating. Both are very profitable to Sony.

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