SIGN PETITION Nikon d600 dust on sensor

Started Nov 7, 2012 | Discussions
Nikonfan99 Senior Member • Posts: 1,411
Re: I've been telling people this for ages
3

1100+ shots. Had 3 spots. Used blower and sensor loupe and issue gone. Never had spot show up in normal use. Only found when I went looking for it. ymmv

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Rebel04 Forum Member • Posts: 84
Re: I've been telling people this for ages

Nikonfan99 wrote:

1100+ shots. Had 3 spots. Used blower and sensor loupe and issue gone. Never had spot show up in normal use. Only found when I went looking for it. ymmv

you're lucky

view result http://www.listentothewindmedia.com/nikon-d600-oil-and-dust-sensor-poll/

Do you have the issue of excess oil/dust on your Nikon D600 sensor that has been discussed in the DPreview forums lately?

Nikonfan99 Senior Member • Posts: 1,411
Re: I've been telling people this for ages

Rebel04 wrote:

Nikonfan99 wrote:

1100+ shots. Had 3 spots. Used blower and sensor loupe and issue gone. Never had spot show up in normal use. Only found when I went looking for it. ymmv

you're lucky

view result http://www.listentothewindmedia.com/nikon-d600-oil-and-dust-sensor-poll/

Do you have the issue of excess oil/dust on your Nikon D600 sensor that has been discussed in the DPreview forums lately?

the options are clear. The number of people that responded to the survey can also be argued. You have no way of trusting such a survey since you cant verify who actually owns the camera. What the testing condition was and a million other things that make it unreliable. sorry

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Rebel04 Forum Member • Posts: 84
Re: I've been telling people this for ages
1

Nikonfan99 wrote:

Rebel04 wrote:

Nikonfan99 wrote:

1100+ shots. Had 3 spots. Used blower and sensor loupe and issue gone. Never had spot show up in normal use. Only found when I went looking for it. ymmv

you're lucky

view result http://www.listentothewindmedia.com/nikon-d600-oil-and-dust-sensor-poll/

Do you have the issue of excess oil/dust on your Nikon D600 sensor that has been discussed in the DPreview forums lately?

the options are clear. The number of people that responded to the survey can also be argued. You have no way of trusting such a survey since you cant verify who actually owns the camera. What the testing condition was and a million other things that make it unreliable. sorry

sorry but the problem exists http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3294364

are these pics normal in your opinion ?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/luka180/8144279198/lightbox/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sebastianhuvenaars/8139742846/lightbox/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jpivkova/8151309894/in/photostream/lightbox/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/justaguywithacamera/8066373029/lightbox/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/47850280@N06/8167531202/lightbox/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/33084905@N05/8115158663/lightbox/

I shouldn't NEED to wet clean a sensor every 10 photos in order to get good photos, especially from a $2000 camera.

Nikonfan99 Senior Member • Posts: 1,411
Re: I've been telling people this for ages

LOL really again with sky and wall photos!!! You may be the owner of : STOCKWALLSANDSKYPHOTOS.COM

come on guy. stop it

I need to shoot more walls and sky. Reading these forums, I guess a huge market for this I need to tap into.

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Rebel04 Forum Member • Posts: 84
Re: I've been telling people this for ages
1

Nikonfan99 wrote:

LOL really you again with your sky and wall photos!!! You may be the owner of : STOCKWALLSANDSKYPHOTOS.COM

come on guy. stop it

photo's aren't mine

a lot of people found this problem, but in your opinion the issue doesn't exixt ...maybe you're a nikonfanboy, Nikonfan99 

AllOtherNamesTaken Veteran Member • Posts: 3,563
That poll is useless
1

Rebel04 wrote:

Nikonfan99 wrote:

1100+ shots. Had 3 spots. Used blower and sensor loupe and issue gone. Never had spot show up in normal use. Only found when I went looking for it. ymmv

you're lucky

view result http://www.listentothewindmedia.com/nikon-d600-oil-and-dust-sensor-poll/

Do you have the issue of excess oil/dust on your Nikon D600 sensor that has been discussed in the DPreview forums lately?

That poll is entirely useless. I have taken entire semester-long classes specifically on how to administer a survey, collect data, analyze the results, etc. That poll tells us absolutely nothing because of how many flaws there are in both the sample size and collection methods. You can take those results with a grain of salt. They will be heavily skewed, naturally.

The fact that dust is even a point of discussion is utterly ridiculous due to how many factors influence that from the individual, how the lens changes are done and in what environment, and the lens used. Completely impossible to even begin to gather reliable data on something like that. To even suggest it's a Nikon specific problem is completely ridiculous.

As for the oil, the only way to get reliable, statistically significant numbers given the amount of D600's sold would be to collect thousands of D600's across different production runs (which is still a very small percentage of D600's made), run them all in identical conditions and test them for oil spots. You would then need to compare those results against a variety of other brands using similar sample sizes and identical testing methods. Looking at an online poll of which only disgruntled owners are likely to ever find, which probably has as many Canon troll replies in it as real ones, and from people who probably don't always know the difference between a dust and an oil spot, is incredibly useless.

Lets assume those 155 people are all legitimate replies, from credible people, who know exactly what they are doing, aren't trolls, and who used identical testing methods, with zero human error (which they for sure aren't). That is well under 1% of D600's sold and wouldn't even get the attention of anyone at Nikon.

People suspending their buying decision in fear of *Possibly* being in this less than 1% category is ridiculous. They probably don't leave their homes either, because the chances of something bad happening to you each day are higher than that.

Rebel04 Forum Member • Posts: 84
Re: I've been telling people this for ages
1

Nikonfan99 wrote:


I need to shoot more walls and sky. Reading these forums,

you can see the spots in normal shooting (for ex. a landscape with DOZEN spots) but to test for sensor spot shoot a blue sky or a white wall is the best way

Nikonfan99 Senior Member • Posts: 1,411
Re: I've been telling people this for ages

Rebel04 wrote:

Nikonfan99 wrote:

LOL really you again with your sky and wall photos!!! You may be the owner of : STOCKWALLSANDSKYPHOTOS.COM

come on guy. stop it

photo's aren't mine

a lot of people found this problem, but in your opinion the issue doesn't exixt ...maybe you're a nikonfanboy, Nikonfan99

Sorry you responded while I was correcting my post. Well actually I am a fan of nikon and the d600. These cameras have made me a fair amount of money and yes dust is an issue even in my d7000 but not under my use And one that can be dealt with should a person want to fix it. All sorts of tools and software to do it. But I have a feeling more people want to complain and turn this into a morals issue. They have a right to. I also have a right to say "come on" use the camera for what it is meant for and enjoy it. Notice how we see a lot of sky and wall and not any real world images that dont include primarily sky and white walls? And lets just say you do a lot of landscape, are you telling me you use sell or use 200 of the same shot at a few seconds apart? I would say you pick the money shot and edit it so part of that would be clone tool and dust ref image tools. A solution is available.

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CraigBennett
CraigBennett Contributing Member • Posts: 699
Re: Pointless and unproven: from both sides ?
1

Meganrogers wrote:

I think anyone who knows how to effectively clean a sensor will think this issue is pointless. Just like complaining to the car dealer about a dirty windshield that has been mentioned so many times. The only way Nikon would void your warranty is if you damage your sensor (not very easy to do). Every dSLR owner should know how to clean their sensors.

Good analogy.  Cleaning the sensor is part of ownership of the product.

Regards,

Craig

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Rebel04 Forum Member • Posts: 84
Re: That poll is useless
1

AllOtherNamesTaken wrote:

Rebel04 wrote:

Nikonfan99 wrote:

1100+ shots. Had 3 spots. Used blower and sensor loupe and issue gone. Never had spot show up in normal use. Only found when I went looking for it. ymmv

you're lucky

view result http://www.listentothewindmedia.com/nikon-d600-oil-and-dust-sensor-poll/

Do you have the issue of excess oil/dust on your Nikon D600 sensor that has been discussed in the DPreview forums lately?

That poll is entirely useless. [...]

ok but a lot of people have this problem with their D600, if you read this forum or if you see for ex. flickr you can see most of the buyers have had this dust and oil spotting issue

this is a real problem, we want only know what is the position of Nikon about

Rebel04 Forum Member • Posts: 84
Re: Pointless and unproven: from both sides ?
3

CraigBennett wrote:

Meganrogers wrote:

I think anyone who knows how to effectively clean a sensor will think this issue is pointless. Just like complaining to the car dealer about a dirty windshield that has been mentioned so many times. The only way Nikon would void your warranty is if you damage your sensor (not very easy to do). Every dSLR owner should know how to clean their sensors.

Good analogy. Cleaning the sensor is part of ownership of the product.

Regards,

Craig

you don't know the problem!!

the spots appear on sensor after just a few shots after cleaning, you cannot clean the sensor every day!

you can't be cleaning spots off sensor every 50-100 pics, because this problem appears every 50-100 shoots!!

Nikonfan99 Senior Member • Posts: 1,411
Re: That poll is useless

Rebel04 wrote:

AllOtherNamesTaken wrote:

Rebel04 wrote:

Nikonfan99 wrote:

1100+ shots. Had 3 spots. Used blower and sensor loupe and issue gone. Never had spot show up in normal use. Only found when I went looking for it. ymmv

you're lucky

view result http://www.listentothewindmedia.com/nikon-d600-oil-and-dust-sensor-poll/

Do you have the issue of excess oil/dust on your Nikon D600 sensor that has been discussed in the DPreview forums lately?

That poll is entirely useless. [...]

ok but a lot of people have this problem with their D600, if you read this forum or if you see for ex. flickr you can see most of the buyers have had this dust and oil spotting issue

this is a real problem, we want only know what is the position of Nikon about

Nikons position ?.... based upon the people that wrote back after a visit to the center and after calling and sending cameras in.....

nikon has been telling them that NO reports of this issue and what they do is clean it and send it back. Guess what? No parts replaced. Ask me and i will say no issue that i see....ask the next guy and he may cry you a river. Has been the case with all of these types of issues and ever since any cameras invented. Not all people agree or think the same thing

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GMack Senior Member • Posts: 2,928
Do you really think a petition will influence Nikon?
1

Seems that last "Petition Drive" on them (Nikon USA) about no longer supplying parts to dealers, independent shops, individuals, etc. didn't faze them at all.

Now all we have are higher repair costs, worse/more inept repair, need to send something that used to cost $10 to them that becomes $110 (Like the guy who needed the lens thumbscrew on Thom's blog.).

I don't see this petition as even waking them up.  They aren't customer driven as they used to be.  Per Ernestine (Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In) of the phone company: "We don't care. We don't have to. (snort) We're the Phone Company!" - substitute "Nikon USA" for the "Phone Company."

Mack

CraigBennett
CraigBennett Contributing Member • Posts: 699
Re: Pointless and unproven: from both sides ?
1

Rebel04 wrote:

CraigBennett wrote:

Meganrogers wrote:

I think anyone who knows how to effectively clean a sensor will think this issue is pointless. Just like complaining to the car dealer about a dirty windshield that has been mentioned so many times. The only way Nikon would void your warranty is if you damage your sensor (not very easy to do). Every dSLR owner should know how to clean their sensors.

Good analogy. Cleaning the sensor is part of ownership of the product.

Regards,

Craig

you don't know the problem!!

the spots appear on sensor after just a few shots after cleaning, you cannot clean the sensor every day!

you can't be cleaning spots off sensor every 50-100 pics, because this problem appears every 50-100 shoots!!

No, I don't. Have never had that problem, except on the Fuji S1, D1x, D2x, D90 and now spots on my D800e.    My method is to just shoot until the camera is nice and broken in, then I clean the sensor.  As far as maintenance, I have always found that I have to clean my sensors (2 cameras) each week.  But I typically shoot 1000+ shots per camera per week (when I shot weddings, which I'm getting ready to do again).

My thought is there cannot be an endless supply of oil on that there shutter.  After awhile, it has to stop slinging it....don't you think?

I am sure there are some legitimate problems out there with cameras having this issue, but I have not seen many and not as many as seems to be happening with the D600.  I have my own idea, which I will keep to myself.

Regards,

Craig

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Juergen Senior Member • Posts: 1,379
Re: I've been telling people this for ages

Rebel04 wrote:

...maybe you're a nikonfanboy, Nikonfan99

...maybe you're a canonfanboy, Rebel04 

AllOtherNamesTaken Veteran Member • Posts: 3,563
Re: That poll is useless
1

Rebel04 wrote:

AllOtherNamesTaken wrote:

Rebel04 wrote:

Nikonfan99 wrote:

1100+ shots. Had 3 spots. Used blower and sensor loupe and issue gone. Never had spot show up in normal use. Only found when I went looking for it. ymmv

you're lucky

view result http://www.listentothewindmedia.com/nikon-d600-oil-and-dust-sensor-poll/

Do you have the issue of excess oil/dust on your Nikon D600 sensor that has been discussed in the DPreview forums lately?

That poll is entirely useless. [...]

ok but a lot of people have this problem with their D600, if you read this forum or if you see for ex. flickr you can see most of the buyers have had this dust and oil spotting issue

this is a real problem, we want only know what is the position of Nikon about

How is this in any way a real problem when the complaints are so statistically insignificant, with nothing factual known about the credibility, usage, or testing conditions of the respondents?  Every last one of them could be Canon trolls for all we know.

How can you possibly say most buyers have an issue when we haven't even heard from 1% of buyers?  Do you see why this is so ridiculous?  I struggle as to why this needs to be explained.  People throw around words like "Most" or "all" as if they have spoken to hundreds of thousands of people. Perhaps 9/10 people will write about their problem but at best 1/10 people will come here to say how happy they are.  That goes for any product, not just cameras.  There are always more happy users than unhappy users with pretty well any product, but looking on forums of any kind you would never know that.

Show me a single piece of factual, credible, and proven evidence that can be backed up with real scientific data that suggests most of these hundreds of thousands of D600's sold have this issue?  Nobody can do that, that I guarantee.  A few forum links from people who we know nothing about don't count, which is all that has been flying around here for the past month.

Juergen Senior Member • Posts: 1,379
Re: I've been telling people this for ages

Rebel04 wrote:

So 194 people took part.

How many D600 are already sold?

200,000? Then it's 0.097 percent (less than 0.1 percent).

In case only 100.000 were sold it's 0.194 percent (less than 0.2 percent).

Juergen Senior Member • Posts: 1,379
Re: That poll is useless
1

Rebel04 wrote:

this is a real problem, we want only know what is the position of Nikon about

YOU MEAN WHO SHOUTS LOUDER IS RIGHT?

You say "this is a real problem" - but you saying so doesn't mean that it indeed is a statistically significant problem.

But of course you can give numbers to back-up your "this is a real problem" - or?

Nikonfan99 Senior Member • Posts: 1,411
Re: That poll is useless

Juergen wrote:

Rebel04 wrote:

this is a real problem, we want only know what is the position of Nikon about

YOU MEAN WHO SHOUTS LOUDER IS RIGHT?

You say "this is a real problem" - but you saying so doesn't mean that it indeed is a statistically significant problem.

But of course you can give numbers to back-up your "this is a real problem" - or?

This is like steve carell in anchorman: "i don't know what we're yelling about"

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