Pentax 560mm lens now listed on Adorama...any takers!

Started Nov 5, 2012 | Discussions
Alex Sarbu Veteran Member • Posts: 7,511
Re: Overpriced product - just buy Sigma 500/4.5

viking79 wrote:

temama wrote:

Alex Sarbu wrote:

temama wrote:

Pentax 560mm is clearly not designed for sale. Buy Sigma 500/4.5, I think you get a better lens for much less money.

Why do you think the Sigma is a better lens?

Alex

Sigma 500/4.5 is well build fast 500mm lens, IQ wide-open (at f/4.5) already good and very sharp at f/5.6. Excellent sharpness at F8.0. Weight only 3.15kg.

http://www.ephotozine.com/article/sigma-500mm-f-4-5-apo-ex-dg-interchangeable-lens-review-4553

http://www.dyxum.com/lenses/Sigma-500-F4.5-EX-DG-APO_lens222.html

http://www.naturfoto-erras.de/sigma500.html

http://www.tobiashjorth.com/sigma-500mm-f45-ex-dg-hsm-review/

I'm also pis*ed off that pentax is playing with us with such a marginal BS product.

Iit seems like an 100 mm aperture telescope is maybe $400 for a cheap one, but I think those are only 2 elements or so. The better designs with 4 elements seem to be $1000 to $2000, so the Pentax with 6 elements is probably a more expensive design, and I imagine the extra elements are related to autofocus? But it has nearly 20 feet minimum focus distance. I don't know that I could use it for much of anything. Hopefully they put a good focus motor in it, I think it is one of those newer DC motors which is good, but lets hope it is also very fast or something.

Eric

Eric, the Pentax is by no means a cheap design, with its 6 elements in 5 groups (not being a telephoto means its optical design is simpler for the same or even higher quality). It also have the same number of ED elements (2) like the Sigma; I don't understand why people are thinking it should have a lower image quality.

Alex

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temama Contributing Member • Posts: 642
Re: Overpriced product - just buy Sigma 500/4.5
1

Alex Sarbu wrote:

, the Pentax is by no means a cheap design, with its 6 elements in 5 groups (not being a telephoto means its optical design is simpler for the same or even higher quality). It also have the same number of ED elements (2) like the Sigma; I don't understand why people are thinking it should have a lower image quality.

Alex

I don't know how good Pentax is, but I know how excellent lens Sigma 500/4.5  is (11 Elements in 8 Groups, BTW):

http://www.sigmaphoto.com/shop/500mm-f45-ex-dg-apo-hsm-sigma

Sigma is the world's largest lens manufacturer, and they certainly have the know-how and resources to make a good lens when they want to make one. And they can produce it a very competitive price.

leopold Forum Pro • Posts: 14,083
Re: Overpriced product - just buy Sigma 500/4.5

We will have to wait and see if that DA560 will be good and i can't see why it would not be as good as the Sigma. Pentax long lenses are always very good!!!

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viking79
viking79 Forum Pro • Posts: 14,137
Re: Overpriced product - just buy Sigma 500/4.5

leopold wrote:

We will have to wait and see if that DA560 will be good and i can't see why it would not be as good as the Sigma. Pentax long lenses are always very good!!!

Agreed, it sounds like it doesn't need as many elements because it gives up some close focus performance. My only commentary was that it is basically a refractor telescope with 100mm aperture (how they measure those, i.e. 560mm / 5.6 = 100mm), so it seems expensive given that it is a refractor telescope, but remains to be seen is how good they made everything else.  If its an excellent optical design, well built, fast AF, then the price might well be justified.

I am interested as to when they might bring out other, more interesting (to me), HD lenses.  Seems like those are going to be the top of the line lenses?

Eric

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leopold Forum Pro • Posts: 14,083
Re: Overpriced product - just buy Sigma 500/4.5

Since they also made it weather sealed (the Sigma is not).

- The Sigma is also an "old" lens, so the price can be lower and Sigma needs to price their lens lower than the brand manufacturer would do for the same lens!

My only complaint about that lens (DA560) is it's long minimumfocusing distance!

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Mark Ransom
Mark Ransom Veteran Member • Posts: 4,064
Re: Pentax 560mm lens now listed on Adorama...any takers!

waxwaine wrote:

If i have that amount of money, and a little more, I´d preffer a 645D, for sure.

But what size lens would you need to get the same FOV on the 645D? It boggles the mind.

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Avi Lewis Contributing Member • Posts: 659
Re: Pentax 560mm lens now listed on Adorama...any takers!

I saw the new lens at Pentax's display at PhotoExpo.  I was taken aback at how very long the lens is!  It"s not easy picturing carrying and using it in the field.  It's slow, too, and while higher practical ISO's of today's cameras will help with that problem, faster would be better.

But the main reason I'm not buying one is that, unable to even touch the demonstrator in its plexiglass, I would not consider one until I'd read some reviews.

The price is high, but might be justified by its quality as reflected in some serious reviews.

For now, waiting time.

-Avi Lewis

(flickr.com/photos/avipix)

Alex Sarbu Veteran Member • Posts: 7,511
Re: Overpriced product - just buy Sigma 500/4.5

temama wrote:

Alex Sarbu wrote:

, the Pentax is by no means a cheap design, with its 6 elements in 5 groups (not being a telephoto means its optical design is simpler for the same or even higher quality). It also have the same number of ED elements (2) like the Sigma; I don't understand why people are thinking it should have a lower image quality.

Alex

I don't know how good Pentax is, but I know how excellent lens Sigma 500/4.5 is (11 Elements in 8 Groups, BTW):

http://www.sigmaphoto.com/shop/500mm-f45-ex-dg-apo-hsm-sigma

Sigma is the world's largest lens manufacturer, and they certainly have the know-how and resources to make a good lens when they want to make one. And they can produce it a very competitive price.

Pentax have an even better reputation as a lens maker. Both (and the others, e.g. Canon, Nikon, Olympus...) can make excellent lenses, if they "want" (it's economically feasible).

Alex

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Russell Evans Forum Pro • Posts: 12,414
Re: Overpriced product - just buy Sigma 500/4.5

Alex Sarbu wrote:

Indeed, you don't know if the Sigma is the better lens or not.

There's better and then there is US $2000 better. I wish Pentax luck in hitting that mark.

edit: Can you use a TC on the Pentax?

Thank you
Russell

awaldram
awaldram Forum Pro • Posts: 12,923
Re: Overpriced product - just buy Sigma 500/4.5

temama wrote:

Alex Sarbu wrote:

temama wrote:


I think you get a better lens for much less money.


We do not know yet how well it performs optically, but I see no reason to suppose it's less than very good, or that it's inferior to the Sigma.

These being said, why do you think the Sigma is a better lens?

Alex

I don't KNOW (yet) how good pentax 560mm is optically, but I think - I have a strong belief - that Pentax isn't better optically than Sigma 500/4.5 (at f/5.6-f/8), and Pentax is only marginally longer, but clearly slower lens...I will take rather f/4.5 500mm than f/5.6 560mm tele lens.

For what reason ??

560@5.6 gives the same DoF as 500@f4.5

Do you shoot long glass at all ?? as your 'advice' seems way off the mark.

The only valid argument Sigma Vs Pentax is Price Vs Features which has always been the case with 3rd party glass.

Until the lens is quantified there can be no 'value' argument .

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temama Contributing Member • Posts: 642
Re: Overpriced product - just buy Sigma 500/4.5

I don't KNOW (yet) how good pentax 560mm is optically, but I think - I have a strong belief - that Pentax isn't better optically than Sigma 500/4.5 (at f/5.6-f/8), and Pentax is only marginally longer, but clearly slower lens...I will take rather f/4.5 500mm than f/5.6 560mm tele lens.

For what reason ??

560@5.6 gives the same DoF as 500@f4.5

Yes, but f/4.5 is a bit faster lens than f/5.6

Do you shoot long glass at all ?? as your 'advice' seems way off the mark.

I have old Tamron adaptall 300/2.8 + 1.4x and 2x teleconverters. Tamron is good lens, but manual. I would really like a proper 400/4, 500/4.5 etc AF lens, but at this moment the only options are Pentax DA 300/4 or Sigma 500/4.5... Overpriced Pentax 560/5.6 isn't a valid alternative, too bad.

Sigma 500/4.5 is also modern "compact" telelens design, while Pentax 560/5.6 is slightly comical looking long tube

The only valid argument Sigma Vs Pentax is Price Vs Features which has always been the case with 3rd party glass.

Sigma 500/4.5 is very HQ lens, even if 3rd party glass.

Until the lens is quantified there can be no 'value' argument .

Agree.

DAVID MANZE Veteran Member • Posts: 4,631
Re: Overpriced product - just buy Sigma 500/4.5

Hi,

This lens is so stupidly expensive as to serve only as "a talking point".

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Alex Sarbu Veteran Member • Posts: 7,511
Re: Overpriced product - just buy Sigma 500/4.5

Russell Evans wrote:

Alex Sarbu wrote:

Indeed, you don't know if the Sigma is the better lens or not.

There's better and then there is US $2000 better. I wish Pentax luck in hitting that mark.

edit: Can you use a TC on the Pentax?

Thank you
Russell

Hello, Russell

We were talking about lens quality independent of price; and if we would try to factor in "how much quality" should we get for those $2000... things will be highly subjective.

Yes, you can use a TC but I assume there's an implied "with AF". Next year we should know more about the planned TC, which I'm sure will be fully compatible. Anyway, IMO a 560mm is quite long on an APS-C DSLR.

By the way, Sigma's MSRP is $6000 - $1000 less than the Pentax. Because we're comparing 3rd-party with OEM, I'd say the Pentax is "reasonably" priced (well, I wouldn't spend $7000 on a lens).

Alex

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leopold Forum Pro • Posts: 14,083
Re: Pentax 560mm lens now listed on Adorama...any takers!

Avi Lewis wrote:

I saw the new lens at Pentax's display at PhotoExpo. I was taken aback at how very long the lens is! It"s not easy picturing carrying and using it in the field. It's slow, too, and while higher practical ISO's of today's cameras will help with that problem, faster would be better.

Well even with a faster lens you will need to stop the lens to f/5.6-8 to have some DOF anyway.

Shooting everything at f/4 will give you a thin DOF. I use my 400mm/4 always at f/5.6 and stop it down even more if needed but i don't use it at f/4 very often. With the new high ISO performance of the DSLR f/5.6 is not a problem.

I use to photograph wildlife in film days with an 400mm/5.6 with 100 ISO films (sometimes pushed to ISO 200) so now a "slower" lens is not a problem.

But the main reason I'm not buying one is that, unable to even touch the demonstrator in its plexiglass, I would not consider one until I'd read some reviews.

The price is high, but might be justified by its quality as reflected in some serious reviews.

For now, waiting time.

-Avi Lewis

(flickr.com/photos/avipix)

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Russell Evans Forum Pro • Posts: 12,414
Re: Overpriced product - just buy Sigma 500/4.5
1

Alex Sarbu wrote:

Russell Evans wrote:

Alex Sarbu wrote:

Indeed, you don't know if the Sigma is the better lens or not.

There's better and then there is US $2000 better. I wish Pentax luck in hitting that mark.

edit: Can you use a TC on the Pentax?

Hello, Russell

We were talking about lens quality independent of price; and if we would try to factor in "how much quality" should we get for those $2000... things will be highly subjective.

The subject says "Re: Overpriced product - just buy Sigma 500/4.5" so I think price, and value for money spent, is what is on peoples mind at this point. I think I also read a number of replies in this thread that also mentioned the pricing in pretty negative terms, so it seems it would be hard to ignore the elephant in the room, don't you think?   Would there be any fuss if the lens had a street price of a couple of thousand? No right? So we are talking about money and value.

Yes, you can use a TC but I assume there's an implied "with AF". Next year we should know more about the planned TC, which I'm sure will be fully compatible. Anyway, IMO a 560mm is quite long on an APS-C DSLR.

Are you sure a f5.6 SDM lens is actually going to auto focus with a SDM TC? Maybe at high noon, but at dawn and dusk when you really are going to be shooting a long lens like the 560mm? And, OF COARSE, auto focus is implied, at least for the money spent, if not just for hauling the lens around. I also think if I'm going to lug a 20.5 in. x 5.1 in., 6.7 pound lens, and spend $7000, that I'm going to want to have the 2 in. x 3 in., 3 oz, $300 option in my pocket to also have a 840mm lens at my disposal as well. Call me crazy.

If that TC that is coming out next year isn't WR, that would be pretty funny. What lenses would you want to use a SDM TC with? The long DA * lenses and this lens, right?  Pentax wouldn't do that, right?

By the way, Sigma's MSRP is $6000 - $1000 less than the Pentax. Because we're comparing 3rd-party with OEM, I'd say the Pentax is "reasonably" priced (well, I wouldn't spend $7000 on a lens).

I'm funny, I only care about how much money is leaving my wallet when talking about prices and at this point, the difference is US $2000.

Thank you
Russell

Alex Sarbu Veteran Member • Posts: 7,511
Re: Overpriced product - just buy Sigma 500/4.5
1

Russell Evans wrote:


Alex Sarbu wrote:

Russell Evans wrote:

Alex Sarbu wrote:

Indeed, you don't know if the Sigma is the better lens or not.

There's better and then there is US $2000 better. I wish Pentax luck in hitting that mark.

edit: Can you use a TC on the Pentax?

Hello, Russell

We were talking about lens quality independent of price; and if we would try to factor in "how much quality" should we get for those $2000... things will be highly subjective.


The subject says "Re: Overpriced product - just buy Sigma 500/4.5" so I think price, and value for money spent, is what is on peoples mind at this point. I think I also read a number of replies in this thread that also mentioned the pricing in pretty negative terms, so it seems it would be hard to ignore the elephant in the room, don't you think? Would there be any fuss if the lens had a street price of a couple of thousand? No right? So we are talking about money and value.

You should follow my discussion with temama: he was claiming that the Sigma is better (regardless of its price) and I asked him why. We are not forced to talk within some very strict boundaries enforced by some title.

Yes, you can use a TC but I assume there's an implied "with AF". Next year we should know more about the planned TC, which I'm sure will be fully compatible. Anyway, IMO a 560mm is quite long on an APS-C DSLR.

Are you sure a f5.6 SDM lens is actually going to auto focus with a SDM TC? Maybe at high noon, but at dawn and dusk when you really are going to be shooting a long lens like the 560mm? And, OF COARSE, auto focus is implied, at least for the money spent, if not just for hauling the lens around. I also think if I'm going to lug a 20.5 in. x 5.1 in., 6.7 pound lens, and spend $7000, that I'm going to want to have the 2 in. x 3 in., 3 oz, $300 option in my pocket to also have a 840mm lens at my disposal as well. Call me crazy.

And half a stop will make a night and day difference? This is your point, that a TC would work just fine on the f/4.5 Sigma but not on a f/5.6 lens?

If that TC that is coming out next year isn't WR, that would be pretty funny. What lenses would you want to use a SDM TC with? The long DA * lenses and this lens, right? Pentax wouldn't do that, right?

Yeah, if the worst possible scenario happens, then it's bad - tell me something new. But what if it doesn't?

I will use it with my 60-250, by the way.

By the way, Sigma's MSRP is $6000 - $1000 less than the Pentax. Because we're comparing 3rd-party with OEM, I'd say the Pentax is "reasonably" priced (well, I wouldn't spend $7000 on a lens).

I'm funny, I only care about how much money is leaving my wallet when talking about prices and at this point, the difference is US $2000.

You don't have to pay the $7000, go for the Sigma if you want. However, you cannot ask Pentax to match with their MSRPs discounted street prices of 7 years old products.

Alex

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LFLee Contributing Member • Posts: 610
Re: Overpriced product - just buy Sigma 500/4.5

wait for a while and price will drop..... like 645D? ($10k-8k). For those who wants to buy, at what price range you would buy? $3000?

Lee

waxwaine
waxwaine Contributing Member • Posts: 997
Re: Pentax 560mm lens now listed on Adorama...any takers!

Mark Ransom wrote:

waxwaine wrote:

If i have that amount of money, and a little more, I´d preffer a 645D, for sure.

But what size lens would you need to get the same FOV on the 645D? It boggles the mind.

Jajaja

I can´t imagine too.

For me it´s more easy to carry arround a 645D than this Tele.

garyknrd Contributing Member • Posts: 769
Re: Pentax 560mm lens now listed on Adorama...any takers!
1

That pentax 560 better be a super sharp lens with  superb  handling to beat the Sigma 500mm lens. I just did a head to head test with the Sigma 500mm lens Pentax mount, against the new Canon 300mm F2.8 ll and a 1.4 T.C. and the Sigma won? And the new Canon bare lens is breath taking. I personally think Pentax will be a good lens but Pentax at this point does not have a camera body that can even come close to taking advantage of a super telephoto lens. The K-5 with a Sigma 500 is fast AF but unreliable in close quarter shooting and cannot AF-C. If Pentax comes out with a good semi-pro body then you might see some interest in the lens. But now even the Sigma 500 on Pentax mount is at a huge disadvantage to others. My hat is off to a few fellows that shoot the Sigma with Pentax mount. I shot it for about two years ans still do shoot some. But very little now due to the poor camera Pentax makes for wildlife shooters.

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Greyser Veteran Member • Posts: 4,962
It's up to you now, Pentax
1

We all know how unobtrusive PentaxUSA lazy marketing used to be. There are definitely some potentials for the lens here times by aggravated curiosity.

However, due to steep price tag and unavailability of the floor samples people want to see test results first before jumping into $7K joy. If I were in Pentax upper management team, I would supply a few 560/5.6 samples to major trustworthy independent testing sites to generate a feedback and promote the lens (let's assume they have no doubts it's a good lens).

Me: On top of 7K I have to pay now 9.75% California Sell Tax, implied recently on all Internet purchases by our broken state. Almost $8K with not knowing what you are buying bites! If there is no news about the lens soon, I most likely buy Sigma 500/4.5.

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