The scratch right below the reflecting mirror on D600.

Started Oct 27, 2012 | Discussions
OP Snapternity Junior Member • Posts: 31
Re: The scratch right below the reflecting mirror on D600.

I don't think we can conclude that, it maybe not causing any problem now, but no one can say for sure it will not in the future.

What if something actually goes wrong say after 50,000 shots?  And the one year warrant has expired?

I wonder who to blame for.

olyflyer
olyflyer Forum Pro • Posts: 26,174
Re: The scratch right below the reflecting mirror on D600.

garyhgaryh wrote:

olyflyer wrote:

garyhgaryh wrote:

My opinions of Nikon is dropping like a rock.

Not mine. I had the D300s which worked flawlessly for three years, I have the V1 which works just fine since February and I have the D800 which works also just fine. Not a single problem with any of those and I don't expect to get any problems in the future.

I think their old stuff is solid. I was referring more to the most current camera they've release in the last 1.5 years or so.

The V1 and the D800 fits the 1.5 years requiremet. Both are excellent quality and very well build. BTW, the D300s is not old... yest, it is three years old, but that's not age for a pro camera. It is made in the Thailand factory, the one that got flooded. I don't know where the D600 is made, the V1 is China and the D800 is Japan.

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olyflyer
olyflyer Forum Pro • Posts: 26,174
Re: The scratch right below the reflecting mirror on D600.
1

larrywilson wrote:

If the camera takes good images then the scratch is not causing any type of problem. I have a good respect for Nikon, but never have been into micro inspecting any camera device. This thread has gone on for at least three pages and there is not a shred of evidence that the same scratches or whatever are causing any sort of problem.

Let's just say I disagree with you. If there is a scratch inside the mirror chamber than that migt cause flare or reflection. You might or mignt not see it in your images and might even suspect the lens or the filter because it will definitely not cause constant problems, just some times depending on the angle of light. There is a good reason why the mirror box is painted that way, not just for the cool look.

The fact that you never inspected your camera is totally irrelevant to the readers.

BTW, wouldn't you care if a brand new car you just bought had a scratch on the paint? ...and in that case it would definitely not have anything to do with the function of the car, as opposed to this case with a camera.

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giuliomagnifico
giuliomagnifico New Member • Posts: 2
Re: The scratch right below the reflecting mirror on D600.

Yes I agree! These scratches can cause some unwanted flare, maybe not very noticeable but the possibility is here.

I don't know what to do, at phone with the italian nikon distributor (nital) they've told that -untill now- they don't know nothing about this issue.

thomas2279f
thomas2279f Veteran Member • Posts: 3,191
Re: The scratch right below the reflecting mirror on D600.

It's is worrying and hope Nikon can address and improve their QC - agree Nikon has to be wary of loosing customers to Canon and also Sony - provided they can close the gap with the lenses they don't have but exist in Canon & Nikon pools.

Also Canon have their share of QC's I had two damaged Canon 30d's with scratched sensors and only got a good one after 3rd attempt, that camera was such a small incremental over the 20d it's was so untrue bit like the Nikon D40x->D60.     I've still got my Canon system replaced 30d with 550d and some consumer glass - still like system and over time may upgrade camera & glass and add some glass that is not present in Nikon or poorer over the Nikon side

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olyflyer
olyflyer Forum Pro • Posts: 26,174
Re: The scratch right below the reflecting mirror on D600.

giuliomagnifico wrote:

Yes I agree! These scratches can cause some unwanted flare, maybe not very noticeable but the possibility is here.

I don't know what to do, at phone with the italian nikon distributor (nital) they've told that -untill now- they don't know nothing about this issue.

If your camera is under warranty they should fix it. How they fix it is their problem but they must give you back a camera without any internal damage.

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evalf Junior Member • Posts: 28
Re: The scratch right below the reflecting mirror on D600.

I just checked mine, there is a scratch indeed. This is a Hong Kong D600, S/N 800xxxx.

Also I've noticed some strange marks on my mirror, a bit like an inverted "e". I have no idea if it was there when I first got the camera, or otherwise what caused it. Also I noticed a large smudge on the edge of the mirror on the far right. I've been very careful not to ever touch the mirror, so I'm wondering as well what may have caused that. Both marks on the mirror are visible through the viewfinder.

Scratch below the mirror, plus a strange pattern of marks on the mirror, and a smudge on the far right of the mirror.

Also I'm unhappy to report that the sensor dust issue does not seem to subside after a "breaking in" the camera. I'm now at 4.5k clicks and there is still as much dust. The image below is after I came back from a trip where I took almost 1000 pictures. I cleaned the sensor with a blower and brush before the trip and the sensor was free of any dust. I did not have my brush during the trip but I did blow off dust a few times during the trip (the bigger spots however did not go away with blowing). The picture below is f/29 converted to black and white with levels set to increase the visibility of the dust spots, however I took a lot of landscape pictures at f/8-11 where the bigger spots show up clearly against the sky. I've even seen the spots appear on some pictures at f/5.6. Also, this is definitely dust and not oil, as a brush has always been sufficient to remove all the spots.

So it looks like my camera is going to need a trip to Nikon service at some stage. I'd just like them to figure out what they need to do to fix that problem before I give them my camera.

VicC Senior Member • Posts: 1,710
A fine paint brush fix

Matt black and artist fine brush, one minute job and no bouncing  camera backwards and forward in post to Nikon. Vic

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OP Snapternity Junior Member • Posts: 31
Re: The scratch right below the reflecting mirror on D600.

That's true, but if Nikon does not get to the bottom of it, I doubt even if they exchange a brand new camera and has no internal damage with you, it's a matter of time that this problem will show up again, with the warrant expired.

Nikon notified us to contact local service center for sensor cleaning is only the first step because I think they are still running all sorts of test with D600 (hopefully) to see how it gets those scratches and will it or will it not damage the camera in anyway.

olyflyer
olyflyer Forum Pro • Posts: 26,174
Re: A fine paint brush fix

VicC wrote:

Matt black and artist fine brush, one minute job and no bouncing camera backwards and forward in post to Nikon. Vic

Sure, but the day you are going to sell the camera the buyer might complain... (I know I would). Also, if the paint contains any chemicals which might dissolve other paint or cause other damage you are worse off because basically you are just throwing the warranty out the window as soon as you start painting your camera. That goes even if the paint is not causing any problem at all, if you mess around in the camera and you leave visible trace of your work I am sure Nikon will not service your camera if you have problem with it later. No, all in all, I think it is a very bad idea to propose a DIY fix on a camera under warranty, unless your life depends on the camera and you can't live without it, best is to send it in for service.

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larrywilson
larrywilson Veteran Member • Posts: 6,605
Re: A fine paint brush fix

Delete

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olyflyer
olyflyer Forum Pro • Posts: 26,174
Re: A fine paint brush fix

larrywilson wrote:

Delete

No problem.

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lock Veteran Member • Posts: 6,202
Re: The scratch right below the reflecting mirror on D600.

Although I do have the scratches, my sensors seems pretty clean now. Only one blob is left. I presume that is oil. But the dust is gone after using the blower.

I will keep an eye on it. If it turns out that the coating particles may ruin mirror of sensor when cleaning, the body will go back to where it came from....

sebastian huvenaars Forum Member • Posts: 57
Re: And mine also : Netherlands, 604xxx.

Although the paint hasnt worn of to the metal, i can see some marks in the same spot. Bought mine last week, the 26th, so i'm still inside my 7 day return period. Strongly contemplating to trade it for a D800.

At the time of buying i already read about the leftside dust issue and knew there would probably be dust problems with my D600 at some point. This didn't really bother me expecting it to be production residu getting less after some usage. The 18th shot i took was a "dust check" image bytheway, it already had quite some stuff on there, indeed mostly in de left part of the frame.

Uptill now i have shot roughly 800 images, just checked for dust again (without changing the lens) and it got a little bit worse, some chips changed location.

An important Dutch tech webside also reported about this issue today. This thing is starting to get fairly huge so i expect Nikon to act sooner or later, but i don't think i'm gona wait this one out. Returning it gives me mixed feelings because i really started to like the camera in the past few days. The images are incredible and the camera really feels like it's designed to be used, responsive and solid.

On the other hand, spending close to 2000 euro's on a camera and having this kind of concerns doesn't sit well with me. Then again, dropping another 600e to get the D800 is something i didn't plan on eighter.

Mehh, what to do...

olyflyer
olyflyer Forum Pro • Posts: 26,174
Re: The scratch right below the reflecting mirror on D600.

Snapternity wrote:

That's true, but if Nikon does not get to the bottom of it, I doubt even if they exchange a brand new camera and has no internal damage with you, it's a matter of time that this problem will show up again, with the warrant expired.

If the mirror box is changed to one without this problem I don't think the problem will ever show up again unless the user is doing something wrong. If I would have a camera like that I would send it in to Nikon and demad it to be fixed. How they fix it is their problem, if it is easier for them to change the camera, that's fine, but if they change the mirror box only, well, so be it. I, the consumer can not demand anything else than getting it fixed and documented that the work was done by Nikon. I, the consumer, am actually not (should not be) concerned about what Nikon is doing to fix the QC issues, that's their business. I paid for one camera and that camera is my only concern as a consumer.

Nikon notified us to contact local service center for sensor cleaning is only the first step because I think they are still running all sorts of test with D600 (hopefully) to see how it gets those scratches and will it or will it not damage the camera in anyway.

Again, what Nikon is doing to improve QC and manufacturing is not our concern. We pay for a product which supposed to be free of faults and damages when delivered to us. That's our only concern. They can do all the tests they want but those tests should have been done before and I should not be the one suffering because of their failure to do the tests before selling the camera to me. The fact that they are working on improving the camera and the QC is good, but it is a very bad excuse to explain to those who already bought the camera.

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lock Veteran Member • Posts: 6,202
The question is whether this leads to a faulty camera or not.

It may or may not lead to unwanted reflections, it may or may not cause debri on the mirror/sensor, it may or may not damage the mechanical parts of the mirror box. But does it do this?

lock

lock Veteran Member • Posts: 6,202
With the risk of trading in a scratch for a a left Af issue.

I really do not know how serious the issue is. It would be nice if someone from Nikon stepped in. But knowing how they hided when the left-AF issue came out, they will probably not do a thing..

MariusMM Forum Member • Posts: 82
Re: With the risk of trading in a scratch for a a left Af issue.
1

Has any one tried to sending it to NIKON and getting it fixed? I've contacted Nikon Customer Support send them that picture, they told me to send it to Nikon for a fix, same thing with OIL spill. But because i need my camera for upcoming photo shots i will hold on from sending, for now. We just need to push Nikon about these problems

UK Customer service: http://www.europe-nikon.com/en_GB/footers/contacts.page

sebastian huvenaars Forum Member • Posts: 57
Re: With the risk of trading in a scratch for a a left Af issue.

Haha yah... From the fryingpan into the fire : P

But for what i can make of it, the problems now surfacing with the D600 seem to be the result of design flaws, where the D800 leftfocusissue was a mere production problem.

Maybe the problem turns out to be less bad then i anticipate, but i know for sure my sensor was a mess right out of the box and i still can return it with no further fuss. Better safe than sorry.

I agree on the idea of individuals reporting the problem to Nikon, if only to help them identify the magnitude of these issues...

olyflyer
olyflyer Forum Pro • Posts: 26,174
Re: The question is whether this leads to a faulty camera or not.
1

lock wrote:

It may or may not lead to unwanted reflections, it may or may not cause debri on the mirror/sensor, it may or may not damage the mechanical parts of the mirror box. But does it do this?

lock

There is no way to answer your question, and the answer is not important. It is not supposed to be like that, it was not caused by the user so it is an fault which falls under warranty. If you care about it or not is entirely up to you.

If you buy a brand new car and just when you are about to sign the deal, collect the keys and pay for it you notice a scratch half way across the left front door... would you pay for that car? If not, why not? The car will perform just as well, it will be just as nice to drive it or sit just as comfortable in it both with and without the scratch...

For myself I know the answer, there is no way I would pay for that car and as a matter of fact, would not even accept that they fix it unless the fix is a change of door and the result is 100% identical color, no tone difference at all. Maybe that's just me and I am too demanding, but when I buy something new it must be new, it must feel new and it should have no scratches and I don't care about if it has any effect on performance or not.

If on the other hand I was the cause of the scratches then so be it, sh!t happens and I either live with it or byte the bullet and pay for the service or whatever fix it needs.

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