The scratch right below the reflecting mirror on D600.

Started Oct 27, 2012 | Discussions
OP Snapternity Junior Member • Posts: 31
Re: The scratch right below the reflecting mirror on D600.

here is the link:

http://www.mobile01.com/topicdetail.php?f=248&t=3013556&p=1

a lot of people are talking about this right now, thanks for the help.

Catalana Senior Member • Posts: 1,259
Re: The scratch right below the reflecting mirror on D600.

Yes, that is another possibility, just that one cannot see deep enough into the mirror box. There is a gap and underneath may be some other moving part, but I doubt it.

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lock Veteran Member • Posts: 6,202
Mine also has it: Netherlands, 6026xxx.

And a lot of dust at least. If its paint (or even metal) this is serious because cleaning it may lead to damaging the sensor surface.

OP Snapternity Junior Member • Posts: 31
Re: Mine also has it: Netherlands, 6026xxx.

I think we can pretty much conclude that the dust is caused by the mirror scratching the surface of that spot when raises, really hope Nikon can deal with this issue soon.

Nikonfan99 Senior Member • Posts: 1,411
Re: Mine also has it: Netherlands, 6026xxx.

Snapternity wrote:

I think we can pretty much conclude that the dust is caused by the mirror scratching the surface of that spot when raises, really hope Nikon can deal with this issue soon.

How did we conclude that? did we have the proper people with high speed video equipment record the movement    of  the mirror assembly and the resulting dust? Did we have someone test a removed mirror box assembly that is wired to still function to see this in real time and measure the amount of dust before and after in a controlled dust free environment? I checked my camera and no marks and I also notice a small cut out on both sides of the part just under the mirror. Could dust actually pass more thru these two cut outs under the mirror. I would think gravity would cause anything that came from the scratch to fall down and or forward and down would mean towards lens opening. Again I dont have the scratch but am at about 500 and will add more clicks today with my shoot. I would like to see a recorded video of this movement from start to finish at the point of contact. I would think a special dye or something that can transfer would also need to be applied.

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Leo360 Senior Member • Posts: 1,141
Re: Mine also has it: Netherlands, 6026xxx.

Nikonfan99 wrote:

Snapternity wrote:

I think we can pretty much conclude that the dust is caused by the mirror scratching the surface of that spot when raises, really hope Nikon can deal with this issue soon.

How did we conclude that? did we have the proper people with high speed video equipment record the movement of the mirror assembly and the resulting dust?

Hi Leonard Shepard. Or, you are not Leonard. Never mind.

Leo

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ShelNf Regular Member • Posts: 427
Re: The scratch right below the reflecting mirror on D600.

Just checked, mine doesn't have any scratches. I have a few oil spots that's about it so far.

MariusMM Forum Member • Posts: 82
Re: The scratch right below the reflecting mirror on D600.

This is mine SN: 801xxxx

MariusMM Forum Member • Posts: 82
Re: The scratch right below the reflecting mirror on D600.

Ive also noticed some other marks:

Nikonfan99 Senior Member • Posts: 1,411
Re: The scratch right below the reflecting mirror on D600.
1

MariusMM wrote:

Ive also noticed some other marks:

I may be talking out my *** but looking at these photos, the scratches are all over the place. They dont line up especially around the edges. I am wondering if these parts get this way during assembly? Agin I think we need a real lab with proper equipment to test this theory before anyone jumps to a conclusion. They need an actual d600 that shows oil and dust on sensor and one with marks and to use some kind of dye or product that wil transfer to a point of contact. I am going to suggest for people to first tilt the camera back....look under the mirror....notice two gaps on either side? that cut out may be the source of dust. But i am not the one that designed these things.

just checked my d7000 and if you tilt it back it is not even close to the same design and also the bottom is not the same so how is that also having dust/oil on sensor when it is not similar? I dont think we really know anything yet until someone can do these test and knows the design and has the schematics of the miror and body.

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bocajrs
bocajrs Senior Member • Posts: 2,404
Re: The scratch right below the reflecting mirror on D600.

I checked mine and dont see any marks..After 600 shots, i shot blank wall and have only 3 minor oil spots top left..nothing to be concerned about IMO..

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GMack Senior Member • Posts: 2,928
Good grief! This isn't jewelry people!
6

I very much doubt if Nikon builds these things in some spotless multi-HEPA filtered Intel Clean Room. I also expect many cameras from almost any manufacturer to have some defects in them as well. It ain't a perfect world and this stuff isn't 100% accurate either, although some seem to think it is. It never will be on a mass consumer level and even the one-time built Hubble Space Telescope needed a service call "to see properly" once on the job.

Any decent bench tech could find something wrong with all products they make out there, much to the chagrin of their owners who think because they paid $25,000 for some Leica S2 it should be "Perfect photo jewelry" (Hint: It ain't.). Tech probably never can address them all either given the time they are allowed to fix what is necessary too and get them to "Good enough for working" levels.

If you got dirt, learn how to clean it. My D7000 had a lot of junk when new, but I made up a small vacuum hose that attaches to the HEPA canister vacuum and suck it out prior to each sensor cleaning (I'm not keen on blowing stuff into a camera having been a bench tech and needing to tear into one of them again post-repair to get the crude out.). Yes, I find very small shards of brass and metal down in the area behind the bayonet mount at times working under a lighted sensor loupe. Pretty much normal with the constant changing of lenses on a machined and a sometimes sharp-edged mount that varies camera-to-camera as well.

If your sensor is oil stained then learn how to wet clean it too. Get some Eclipse and some swabs and learn to do it on a glass lens filter then apply the technique to the sensor. If it streaks from oil where the residue color changes to some magenta to bluish streaks, that can be infuriating to get rid of but stick with it. My D800E was really bad the first time though its cleaning with magenta streaks and sensor crude and it will show in photos if you look for it too. Just keep at it with a new swab and Eclipse until it is streak free which it will be at some point - unless you are totally inept then let someone else do it. In time, stuff like oil will minimize from cleaning to cleaning.

Some shutters have a coating that will wear off too else the blades would be a bright shiny metal and you don't want that. Needs a sensor cleaning for that too. Maybe some mold release is still in the body and floating around which also may call for a sensor cleaning too. If you eve see some grease inside a body on some gear train, you'd be shocked at how much crude can be caught in it.

If you see a scratch someplace, it won't affect your photos. Probably won't even affect it if it is a small one in you lens's glass either, maybe even a large one either. If I took back every screwdriver handle for a scratch, much less some camera body or lens, I wouldn't have one now.

If you are looking for some casting bit from the molds, good luck. You'll find thousands which seems to be a norm in this thread.

Good grief people. Get a grip already! If the letter "i" isn't dotted in white paint in the word Nikon on the lens, does that devalue the lens any more and cause it to take lousy photos? It's a mass produced item and one should expect to see some flaws someplace that make this one different from that one. No two cars are 100% alike either if you have a pool of the same models at work. Even some $50,000 diamond may have a flaw in the cutting and polishing if one looks long enough for it.

Tolerance exists in the making of these things. Perhaps it is needed in this thread too instead of "I found a scratch and I'm writing the company about it!" Better wait a while before doing it as you'll find more to write about later if you keep looking for them. Your 1/500 second shutter speed may be 1/504 second. Want to write about that too?

Mack

larrywilson
larrywilson Veteran Member • Posts: 6,569
Re: Good grief! This isn't jewelry people!

I have mentioned several times in this forum about mass produced products.  There is no way in heck that each product will be perfect with an essembly line manufactured product.  There is no way in heck that the parts within a camera will have no marks because a machine or person has to essemble the parts and a lot of the parts move inside of the camera.  If the essembly involves installing a part by person or machine, then a small essembly mark may be present on most of the same model of camera.

Dust is always present inside of an interchangable lens camera.  Almost all images are not taken at an f16 or higher of a white wall, white sky or blue sky where any small speck may show up on the image.  If an image is taken with the above setting of the sky maybe once a month then I would tend to agnore the speck or two and take care of it in post processing.

Larry

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OP Snapternity Junior Member • Posts: 31
Re: Good grief! This isn't jewelry people!

I think we're just wonder why D600 gets dust on the sensor much easily than other bodies?  Like I have mentioned, and also have photo evidences, pretty much all marks (scratches) have been found around the same area, and many spots are being found at the upper left corner of the image, not just this thread, LensRentals.com also discovered same dust problem, and I believe they have cleaned much more cameras than we do, and they found this unusual too.

So, no matter what the cause might be, let's face it, this problem cannot be ignored, I know D600 isn't jewelry, but it ain't cheap either.  Other lower level Nikon DSLRs don't have that much of this problem, then why should D600 has?  If it's not internal, what happened to the "dust-proof drip proof"?

OP Snapternity Junior Member • Posts: 31
Re: Good grief! This isn't jewelry people!

That's true, but what if this problem will cause damage to the body?  Right now we can't tell anything for sure, and some people take this issue seriously because it is customers rights and interests to know the truth.

Shooting at F16 is a rare scenario, but I would rather choose not to edit or fix any dots on every photos that I took if possible.

Nikonfan99 Senior Member • Posts: 1,411
Re: Good grief! This isn't jewelry people!
1

I have gotten slammed for this same thing over and over. And i agree with you fully. It seems people dont get the technical side and also the NIKON tolerance levels and want to keep beating a dead horse. lensrentals also does not do wet cleanings in the video that they show. No knock at them but watch the video they made of how to clean a sensor ...unless i was watching a old video.. What they say has no relevance until nikon decides to do something to make a change in this design. HINT THEY WILL NOT. You have god knows howmany of these things now sold world wide. You think they plan to replace and redesign all of them? they may silently fix the ones that have a failure rate that is above what they think is acceptable? Are we nikon techs? do we know what standard they find ok? do we know when they decide a camera just needs a cleaning and when they say okay lets replace the mirror box or shutter. Read all the d7000 posts or d800 posts of cameras sent back same, worst and better. That means they have a way of doing it. This is fine to post and say hey this may be the cause or that but until nikon says so Which THEY WILL NOT it will go on as a case by case repair or cleaning and will still result in the issue showing up for some and not others. It has dust YES YES YES we got it and i agree. Where is the nikon test and repair orders and final verdict? Read up on d7000 repair invoices and lets see what they actually do that is a permanent fix.

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Catalana Senior Member • Posts: 1,259
Re: Mine also has it: Netherlands, 6026xxx.

Hi Snap, please don't jump to any conclusions yet. So far this is all pure speculation, as I mentioned before, and we really need a lot more info and samples. In any case, I'm still very happy with my D600 and will continue to shoot with confidence.

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OP Snapternity Junior Member • Posts: 31
Re: Mine also has it: Netherlands, 6026xxx.

Thanks Catalana, I'm just desperate to know the truth.

I have sent a mail about this to Nikon, am still awaiting their response.

OP Snapternity Junior Member • Posts: 31
Re: Good grief! This isn't jewelry people!

Okay, now, we have not been given any fact that the gap above the curtain caused dust (the way D600 has been designed), the lube caused oil spot (to make the shutter last longer), and whatever caused the scratches (marks) will do absolutly no damage to the camera.  And you don't think Nikon will do anything about it?  Not even declare that  the parts in the mirror box that causes scratches (which is mainly my concern)  will do no harm to the camera itself?

D7K-AR Junior Member • Posts: 47
Re: The scratch right below the reflecting mirror on D600.

found in mine too....bought this camera on 02nd october... so far no dust or oil spots.. shutter count 177...

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