Said Good Bye to my Canon 5D MK II today.

Started Oct 26, 2012 | Discussions
Great Bustard Forum Pro • Posts: 40,754
Re: @ Bustard
1

Chris_in_Osaka wrote:

Great Bustard wrote:

SLOtographer wrote:

Congrats! I like having both FF and m43, but can see the allure of sticking with m43. The EM5 appears to be a landmark camera. It has raised the bar to the point, with good glass, that it meets a wide range of photographic needs.

Well if I had cash, and EM5, I'd be tempted to go with one of the magnificent 7 lineups.

Plan 1: 12/2, 17/1.8, 25/1.4, 45/1.8, 75/1.8, and 150/2.8 plus a macro, flash, batt grip.

Or Plan 2: 7-14, 12-35, 35-100, 100-300, two bright primes, macro, flash, batt grip.

That echoes my thoughts exactly, as I'm kinda in Chris' situation right now, and am debating which way I'll go. Have to say that Plan 1 greatly appeals to me (I shoot all primes on FF), but feel that Plan 2 would be the better choice for most.


Question for Chris: if the 5D3 had the D800 sensor (or even the D600 sensor), which way would you have gone?

I still would have gone for the om-d.

The Sony sensor they're using makes hi iso less of an issue compared to Oly cameras of days gone by. But, the main reasons for going with the om-d are the weight savings (I can carry the om-d in a messenger bag along with ALL my lenses, and it's still about same weight as the 5d2 and kit lens) and features (eye detect focus when doing portraits, 9fps, etc etc). The loss of slightly shallower DOF is a small trade off.

Yep -- I can totally see that, and that's exactly the reason the EM5 is still in the running for when I upgrade.  I dare say that the biggest issue to me is TTL vs EVF/LCD.  I really, really, really like TTL.

The other thing is that the EM5 + Plan 1 (which is exactly what I'm thinking of, save the grip) is freakin' expensive.  I feel that I may as well stay FF for that price, as the shallow DOF options of FF mean more to me than the weight savings of mFT.

In any case, I'm waiting a bit to decide which way I'll go, and, ironically enough, I'm thinking my next purchase will be an XZ2 or G15.

Still, best of luck with your new system, although I think luck will have little to do with it.  If you decide to just screw it all and go with a cell phone instead, shoot me a PM -- I'd love to take that system off your hands. 

alatchin Senior Member • Posts: 1,055
Re: A brave choice

Chris_in_Osaka wrote:

alatchin wrote:

, I just want a smaller AF box in the "pro" camera.

1/8000 shutter would be nice too.


True, and as long as we are asking... ISO 100 (or 50)

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rrr_hhh Veteran Member • Posts: 6,022
Focusing with a smaller target : a how to and some comments

alatchin wrote:

I sold off my a850 and Sony/Minolta lenses when I saw the OMD file quality. I havent regretted it yet, and the accuracy of CDAF is a real bonus, I just want a smaller AF box in the "pro" camera.

You are aware that you can get a way smaller AF box than the default one when using the Zoom AF feature ?

I use that option most of the time : when used at 14x zoom factor, the target becomes really small. I agree that then you loose all your shooting info on the display.

But here is how I find easier to work :

I access to the magnifier through the multifunction button on Fn2, where it is the default function (the one activated with a short pressure).

With one pressure, the target shows up and you can move it with the arrows keys or resize it with the subdial; a second short pressure will bring the magnified view; then you just need to focus, either with a Fn button, or with a half-release pressure. I'm using the Fn1 button with the grip and the Rec button without the grip. I have the AF/AEL button set to mode three (separating AF and AEL).

A long pressure will bring you back to normal view (the one you had before activating the magnifier).

Two short pressures on the Fn2 button (magnifier) will zoom you directly into the target and it will have the same position and size as at the time of the last activation.

You can make it very effective : one short pressure on the Fn2 button brings the green focus target up, one pressure on the Rec or Fn1 button focus and one long pressure on the Fn2 button and you are back in normal mode.

I tend to keep the AF target always on the center point, using the target and reframe technique (see lower why).

All this little fingers dance can become quite intuitive, although I prefer the way it worked with the E-P3 : first the two Fn buttons were standing next to one another and fell right under my thumb, while their positionning on the E-M5 is a little awkward for me.  Last but not least, the wheel surrounding the four ways controller was allowing a very fast positioning of the green target box, while the use of the mushy arrows keys of the E-M5 is a pain, I don't understand why both wheels are used to resize the target and none will move it.

Of course if the usual target showing up with the shooting info was smaller, it would be much better, no need for that fingers dance !

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rrr_hhh

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sgoldswo
sgoldswo Veteran Member • Posts: 5,717
Re: Said Good Bye to my Canon 5D MK II today.

Chris_in_Osaka wrote:

I've owned the Canon 5D Mark II since around the time the (disappointing) Olympus E-5 was released, a camera that prompted me to sell off all my 4/3's gear, stick with micro 4/3's for portability, and go full frame for my main camera.

Then came the O-MD and renewed faith in Olympus. I hadn't touched the 5D Mark II since I got my hands on the OM-D on morning of the release day in Japan. Over the months I've slowly sold off my FF gear (50mm f1.4, 100mm f2, 70-200mm f4, Tokina 16-28mm f2.8 etc.) until all that remained was the body, 24-105mm kit lens, and flash...all sitting unused and depreciating in value.

I toyed with the idea of getting rid of the 24-105 and picking up the 50mm f1.2 but in the end, the OM-D beat out the Canon in just about every way except, most obviously, the potential for more shallow DOF ( a crutch for many photographers if you ask me).
So, as of today, I am a m4/3's user only. And I've got a bit of cash in my pocket. Let's see....75mm f1.8? 12mm f2? 60mm f2.8? Maybe the Samyang 7.5mm fisheye?

I did the same thing and ditched my A900 and Sony/Zeiss lenses recently. Though I do still own an M9 as well as my E-M5!

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jeffharris
jeffharris Veteran Member • Posts: 8,612
Re: Said Good Bye to my Canon 5D MK II today.

rrr_hhh wrote:

SLOtographer wrote:

Well if I had cash, and EM5, I'd be tempted to go with one of the magnificent 7 lineups.

Plan 1: 12/2, 17/1.8, 25/1.4, 45/1.8, 75/1.8, and 150/2.8 plus a macro, flash, batt grip.

Or Plan 2: 7-14, 12-35, 35-100, 100-300, two bright primes, macro, flash, batt grip.

On plan 2, I'd skip the 100-300mm which isn't up to the standard of the 7-14mm or the 12-35mm; for the 35-100mm I haven't read enough to say something.

Plan 1 is the best looking one ! But would you take all those lenses with you in a bag on a single photo outing ? If not, how will you choose among all those lenses ? The more gear you have, the more difficult it will be to choose the right lenses before a photo outing, isn't it ?

Plan 1 seems okay. Personally, I prefer primes and find that when I do shoot with zooms I use the extremes, but rarely the middle range. Having more lenses to choose from is a good thing.

There's also a hybrid approach: 7-14mm, 25mm, 45mm, 75mm, 100-300mm

Sure, the 100-300mm isn't on the same level as any of the primes or high-end zooms, but it's reasonably priced and sized and quite a bit of fun to shoot with.

As for the "which lens" debate, that depends on what you're shooting. For travel, when time, weight and complexity come into play, as well as not really knowing what I'll encounter, I carry zooms, a fast prime and a macro lens: 7-14mm, 14-140mm, Voigtländer 25mm, Nikon 60mm f2.8D macro, possibly the 100-300mm.

For walking around town (NYC) I carry 2 to 4 primes. My current favorite little kit: SLR Magic Hyperprime 12mm T1.6, Voigtländer 25mm, Voigtländer 75mm f2.5 Color Heliar. Sometimes I'll add a Pentax 50mm f1.4 SMC Takumar, or might toss in a Nikon 105mm f2.8 macro (which is also a great telephoto) or an Olympus OM 135mm f2.8. Yes, they're all manual lenses.

I also don't get hung up on lens "gaps" and opt to think a bit more, rather than lug the proverbial kitchen sink.

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jeffharris
jeffharris Veteran Member • Posts: 8,612
Re: Focusing with a smaller target : a how to and some comments

rrr_hhh wrote:

alatchin wrote:

I sold off my a850 and Sony/Minolta lenses when I saw the OMD file quality. I havent regretted it yet, and the accuracy of CDAF is a real bonus, I just want a smaller AF box in the "pro" camera.

You are aware that you can get a way smaller AF box than the default one when using the Zoom AF feature ?

I use that option most of the time : when used at 14x zoom factor, the target becomes really small. I agree that then you loose all your shooting info on the display.

But here is how I find easier to work :

Of course if the usual target showing up with the shooting info was smaller, it would be much better, no need for that fingers dance !

That "routine" sounds like a pain! So where is the "advantage" of AF if you're stuck doing all that?

Honestly, I spend/waste more time dicking around with focus box size and whatnot when using AF lenses than just focusing manually. Although, when using AF lenses, I'm officially in lazy mode, so mostly opt for touchscreen focus shifting, or I'll opt for a hybrid approach shifting focus point with the touch screen and EVF.

Manual lenses (with an EVF) are so much easier to use. Plus, they have an aperture ring and focus scale. The MF routine is: Compose, shift focus point, zoom for focus assist, shoot. Repeat…

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(unknown member) Veteran Member • Posts: 3,915
Re: Said Good Bye to my Canon 5D MK II today.

jeffharris wrote:

Plan 1 seems okay. Personally, I prefer primes and find that when I do shoot with zooms I use the extremes, but rarely the middle range. Having more lenses to choose from is a good thing.

There's also a hybrid approach: 7-14mm, 25mm, 45mm, 75mm, 100-300mm

Sure, the 100-300mm isn't on the same level as any of the primes or high-end zooms, but it's reasonably priced and sized and quite a bit of fun to shoot with.

As for the "which lens" debate, that depends on what you're shooting. For travel, when time, weight and complexity come into play, as well as not really knowing what I'll encounter, I carry zooms, a fast prime and a macro lens: 7-14mm, 14-140mm, Voigtländer 25mm, Nikon 60mm f2.8D macro, possibly the 100-300mm.

For walking around town (NYC) I carry 2 to 4 primes. My current favorite little kit: SLR Magic Hyperprime 12mm T1.6, Voigtländer 25mm, Voigtländer 75mm f2.5 Color Heliar. Sometimes I'll add a Pentax 50mm f1.4 SMC Takumar, or might toss in a Nikon 105mm f2.8 macro (which is also a great telephoto) or an Olympus OM 135mm f2.8. Yes, they're all manual lenses.

I also don't get hung up on lens "gaps" and opt to think a bit more, rather than lug the proverbial kitchen sink.

I like Plan 1.5!  I buy UWA zooms instead of a wide prime, since landscapes are a large part of my photography.  The zooms on the ends makes sense.  The 100-300 is better (according to what I've seen) than the 45-200, and the price is right for that much reach.  Plus the only other option is the oly 75-300 at the moment.

Quite the lens selection for m43!

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SLOtographer
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marike6 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,088
Ouch...I would have never done it but...enjoy.
2

Chris_in_Osaka wrote:

Then came the O-MD and renewed faith in Olympus. I hadn't touched the 5D Mark II since I got my hands on the OM-D on morning of the release day in Japan. Over the months I've slowly sold off my FF gear (50mm f1.4, 100mm f2, 70-200mm f4, Tokina 16-28mm f2.8 etc.) until all that remained was the body, 24-105mm kit lens, and flash...all sitting unused and depreciating in value.

I guess if you were not using your 5D Mk II or using it to it's full potential then selling it made sense.  But those all all very good lenses, capable of remarkable images, and I'd never dump a 5D II in a million years (or unless the replacement said D600 on it).

I toyed with the idea of getting rid of the 24-105 and picking up the 50mm f1.2 but in the end, the OM-D beat out the Canon in just about every way except, most obviously, the potential for more shallow DOF ( a crutch for many photographers if you ask me).

It sounds like you are changing gear expecting dramatically different results when in fact you already had wonderful equipment.  If you didn't use your 50 1.4, an excellent lens, I'm not sure what the 50 1.2 would have given you since they are both sharp, but the $1500 50 1.2 is just a tiny bit faster.

As far as the OM-D beating the 5D II, it doesn't.  I'm not sure when it was this forum convinced itself that the EM-5 was better in any way but size than a FF DSLR.  Seriously, it's laughable. The EM-5 has only slightly better IQ than a GX1. I don't go around telling the world that my GX1 is better than my D800, or even my X-Pro1.  It is not, and neither is the EM-5.

Not trying to rain on your justification for selling one of the best Canon cameras ever made, but it sounds like you weren't using your 5D II so you got a smaller camera more suited to the images you make.

Let's be clear, shallow DOF is not the only thing the 5D bests the EM-5 at. But the 5D II absolutely destroys the EM-5 is low-light, high ISO ability (something like 1820 ISO to 800 ISO if you go by DxOMark), has higher resolution and better colors, a more robust build, etc.  It's just a better camera, a money maker, and one of the most popular portrait/wedding cameras in history capable of professional quality results.

For video, the 5D II is the camera that really started the whole HDSLR video production craze.  Here too, the 5D II is a money maker, a mini-cinema camera that is being used by some of the most high end production companies.

I just happened to see this 5D II film short on Vimeo that has something like 28 K "Likes".  It's borrows a lot from Toy Story, and the images (and the story) are beautiful and touching.

https://vimeo.com/32397612

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Savas Kyprianides Veteran Member • Posts: 3,619
Re: Ouch...I would have never done it but...enjoy.

marike6 wrote:

Chris_in_Osaka wrote:

Then came the O-MD and renewed faith in Olympus. I hadn't touched the 5D Mark II since I got my hands on the OM-D on morning of the release day in Japan. Over the months I've slowly sold off my FF gear (50mm f1.4, 100mm f2, 70-200mm f4, Tokina 16-28mm f2.8 etc.) until all that remained was the body, 24-105mm kit lens, and flash...all sitting unused and depreciating in value.

I guess if you were not using your 5D Mk II or using it to it's full potential then selling it made sense. But those all all very good lenses, capable of remarkable images, and I'd never dump a 5D II in a million years (or unless the replacement said D600 on it).


I toyed with the idea of getting rid of the 24-105 and picking up the 50mm f1.2 but in the end, the OM-D beat out the Canon in just about every way except, most obviously, the potential for more shallow DOF ( a crutch for many photographers if you ask me).

It sounds like you are changing gear expecting dramatically different results when in fact you already had wonderful equipment. If you didn't use your 50 1.4, an excellent lens, I'm not sure what the 50 1.2 would have given you since they are both sharp, but the $1500 50 1.2 is just a tiny bit faster.

As far as the OM-D beating the 5D II, it doesn't. I'm not sure when it was this forum convinced itself that the EM-5 was better in any way but size than a FF DSLR. Seriously, it's laughable. The EM-5 has only slightly better IQ than a GX1. I don't go around telling the world that my GX1 is better than my D800, or even my X-Pro1. It is not, and neither is the EM-5.

Not trying to rain on your justification for selling one of the best Canon cameras ever made, but it sounds like you weren't using your 5D II so you got a smaller camera more suited to the images you make.

Let's be clear, shallow DOF is not the only thing the 5D bests the EM-5 at. But the 5D II absolutely destroys the EM-5 is low-light, high ISO ability (something like 1820 ISO to 800 ISO if you go by DxOMark), has higher resolution and better colors, a more robust build, etc. It's just a better camera, a money maker, and one of the most popular portrait/wedding cameras in history capable of professional quality results.

For video, the 5D II is the camera that really started the whole HDSLR video production craze. Here too, the 5D II is a money maker, a mini-cinema camera that is being used by some of the most high end production companies.

I just happened to see this 5D II film short on Vimeo that has something like 28 K "Likes". It's borrows a lot from Toy Story, and the images (and the story) are beautiful and touching.

https://vimeo.com/32397612


I love the images my 5DII helps me obtain, but the prices for lenses have gone wonky some time after 2010's disaster, too costly for an amateur like myself to afford or justify. I'm eyeing this thread after having seen the camera at Photoplus in New York this weekend.

marike6 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,088
Not a good price, but convenience costs.

Chris_in_Osaka wrote:

I got ¥165,000, or a little over $2000 for the kit lens, body and 430 II flash, very fair considering they still have to make some profit, and very welcome considering I don' t need the hassle of finding a buyer myself.

Like with most camera shops, the price you got is very low.  Consider that if you had sold just the 25-105 L on Ebay, you would have gotten no less than $800, and quite possibly more for it.  All you needed to do was photograph the lens, and pop it on Ebay.  There are tons of sellers from Japan on Ebay USA and they get top dollar for their gear.

To put it in perspective, I sold my 5D II/ 24-105 L kit (to buy my D800) Ebay and got $2850.  I purchased it new from B&H for $3299, if I remember correctly.

Selling to the camera shop is definitely convenient and I have sold a few things to B&H.  But now I almost always just use Ebay. For lenses you can almost always get full value.  For bodies, you usually take a hit of a couple of hundred.  Nobody is going to pay new prices on a used body without a warranty when they can but it new with a warranty.

Anyway, in the future if you have gear, just list it on Ebay or use DPR Classified which gets way less pageviews, but has the added benefit of not requiring a sellers fee.

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rrr_hhh Veteran Member • Posts: 6,022
Re: Focusing with a smaller target : a how to and some comments

jeffharris wrote:

rrr_hhh wrote:

alatchin wrote:

I sold off my a850 and Sony/Minolta lenses when I saw the OMD file quality. I havent regretted it yet, and the accuracy of CDAF is a real bonus, I just want a smaller AF box in the "pro" camera.

You are aware that you can get a way smaller AF box than the default one when using the Zoom AF feature ?

I use that option most of the time : when used at 14x zoom factor, the target becomes really small. I agree that then you loose all your shooting info on the display.

But here is how I find easier to work :

Of course if the usual target showing up with the shooting info was smaller, it would be much better, no need for that fingers dance !

That "routine" sounds like a pain! So where is the "advantage" of AF if you're stuck doing all that?

as I said, it was very fluid on the E-P3, but a little less so with the E-M5.  AF is  a benediction for all those getting a worse sight with the years. I don't trust my eyes enough for manual focusing..

Honestly, I spend/waste more time dicking around with focus box size and whatnot when using AF lenses than just focusing manually. Although, when using AF lenses, I'm officially in lazy mode, so mostly opt for touchscreen focus shifting, or I'll opt for a hybrid approach shifting focus point with the touch screen and EVF.

but you need the magnifier for manual focusing too..

Manual lenses (with an EVF) are so much easier to use. Plus, they have an aperture ring and focus scale. The MF routine is: Compose, shift focus point, zoom for focus assist, shoot. Repeat…

But you need a good eye-sight to check focus :-).

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rrr_hhh

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Jon Stock Senior Member • Posts: 1,608
50mm 4/3 Macro lens

Welcome back.

I enjoyed your image posts from Japan.

The new 60mm Olympus macro has been reported to be as good as the 45mm Panasonic macro. The Old Olympus 50mm macro was better than the 45mm Panasonic.

Although the two new macro lenses can do 1:1.

http://www.dpreview.com/lensreviews/widget/Fullscreen.ashx?reviews=32,65&fullscreen=true&av=3,3&fl=50,45&vis=VisualiserSharpnessMTF,VisualiserSharpnessMTF&stack=horizontal&&config=LensReviewConfiguration.xml%3F1

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Jon

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TrapperJohn Forum Pro • Posts: 16,488
I've been delighted with the ZD 8FE, plus a new ZD lens I just got

I got the ZD 8FE+ZD 70-300 (a quick focuser on the EM5) a couple of months ago for USD$600 shipped to me. Both were absolutely mint, nary a scratch anywhere. So I figure I paid no more than $400 for the 8FE, and that seems to be typical of them on the used market... if you can find one.

I was looking at the Samyang, and it looks good, but... over the years, I've never met a HG or SHG ZD lens I didn't like... they're pricey but they always exceed expectations. So when the chance came up to get a real deal on the 8FE, plus it's weathersealed, I figured... why depart from a winning formula? So the ZD 8FE has worked out very well for me - it was relatively inexpensive, reasonably compact on the EM5, beautifully built, and like every other ZD I've owned, it didn't disappoint.

Well, my longstanding love affair with ZD glass just grew stronger. Got home yesterday, and waiting for me, from the same seller who sent me that utterly mint 8FE, was an equally mint ZD 35-100.

Price? $USD1200.

Yes, there are two M43 options in that general capability: the 75 1.8 and Panny 35-100. Both are smaller, both AF faster, though the ZD 35-100 actually AF's decently on the EM5 if you use the focus limit switch. 1 to 1.5 seconds. It's heavy, though not that heavy. It's big, but not that big. Optical quality... to quote Mark Twain once again, if you have to ask...

The deciding factor? I've seen too many exquisitely rendered shots from that lens online to pass up the chance to get one. Early test shots confirm this, it's what you would expect when you put one of the finest zooms ever made on a state of the art sensor. I'll have to post an example as soon as I can spend an afternoon with it.

When the OMD-Pro comes out with fast ZD autofocus, the price on HG and SHG ZD glass will shoot back up. Hopefully, I can score an equally good deal on a 150F2 before that happens.

Simon88 New Member • Posts: 22
Re: Said Good Bye to my Canon 5D MK II today.

Had the EM5 for a week now, great camera. Its not as good as the D7000 in some areas but better in others. IMO the Nikon is designed around the functions whilst the Oly has the functions squeezed into a package designed to be small. There are compromises with having something small and light. Having said that my Nikon kit will now be up for sale, the Oly suits my needs better and the (small) differences I see in IQ are only visible when pixel peeping which is a pointless exercise.

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Simon88 New Member • Posts: 22
Re: Ouch...I would have never done it but...enjoy.

IQ is important but it certainly isn't the only thing to be concerned about. My D7000 has better IQ than my EM5, it's easier to access all of the functions and I love it. The EM5 does however produce images that are of acceptable level (very good in fact), the functionality is good  for the main controls once set up and the size and weight is an absolute dream. I'm not a professional but I do like to have good kit, the EM5 is here to stay as it suits my purpose and has the additional benefit of being able to be taken underwater without mortgaging my house (unlike the Nikon). The D7000's a great camera but for my purposes the EM5 is a better one.

If people realise what they need rather than what they lust after (or what the marketing departments make them think they want) then cameras like the EM5 will have a bright future.

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mujana Veteran Member • Posts: 5,348
Re: Said Good Bye to my Canon 5D MK II today.

Good for you! I did the same with my E5/12-60/50-200/50mm just 2 weeks ago. At the moment trhe OM-D/9-18mm/45mm/75 will have to do the job:-)...and they do:-)

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cptobvious Contributing Member • Posts: 786
Re: Said Good Bye to my Canon 5D MK II today.

I've been considering selling my 5D, 17-40L, Sigma 50, 85 1.8 to get an OM-D with Panasonic 7-14, 20 1.7 and Oly 45 1.8.  The reason being I don't carry my camera around as much as I'd like.  The only thing stopping me is past experience - last year I sold another 5D to buy an X100, which I returned because of AF frustrations.  The OM-D looks like it's much better in that area but I think I'll eventually be missing the FF 'look' with fast primes again.  Perhaps I should just keep my current setup and buy an entry-level MFT or NEX-5N.  Hmm...

mujana Veteran Member • Posts: 5,348
Re: Said Good Bye to my Canon 5D MK II today.

Maybe an idea to try the OM-D with fast primes like 45mmF1.8/75mmF1.8 or the Panaleica 25mm F1.4?

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alatchin Senior Member • Posts: 1,055
Re: Focusing with a smaller target : a how to and some comments

Thanks rrr,

I will give it a try It may work out very well for me.

Abraham

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Simon88 New Member • Posts: 22
Re: Said Good Bye to my Canon 5D MK II today.

Might be worth picking up a second hand MFT and seeing how you like it.

I sold off one lens (70 - 200 2.8) to fund the EM5, found a really good price online (procamerashop) and reasoned (there's always a way to reason these things!) that I could always sell it on if I didnt like it and buy another 70 - 200 with minimal loss. That way I got to try the EM5 next to the 7K to decide which way I wanted to head. It only took a week to decide!

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Nikon D7000
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