New RX1 samples, WOW!

Started Oct 10, 2012 | Discussions
TrojMacReady
TrojMacReady Veteran Member • Posts: 8,729
Re: New RX1 samples, WOW!

altaf007 wrote:

johnbee wrote:

altaf007 wrote:

A99 sample clearly shows more noise than 5d mark II

http://www.thephoblographer.com/2012/10/10/quick-unscientific-high-iso-comparison-canon-5d-mk-ii-sony-a99-and-sony-rx-1/

still not satisfied by high ISO performance of A99

I never trust in camera NR. ie. 5D Mark II processing.

You mean Mark II uses Noise reduction in that sample but it is RAW with no NR

There's tons of artifacts in the posted pictures that make judging noise hard already (compression etc.) and there is NR still because at least the chroma noise is filtered.

Maxeyesore
Maxeyesore Regular Member • Posts: 415
Re: New RX1 samples, WOW!

BMWX5 wrote:

Frenske wrote:

There is nothing special about these pictures. The ISO 3200 looks like a typical picture by any Sony DSLT camera. Granted these are most excellent when compared to other "compact" cameras but they costs only 1/10 of the RX1 price.

nothing special? you made me laugh. Show me a usable ISO 25,600 taken by any Sony camera!

I can't show you a usable sony shot, but heres a 25k shot with no PP, taken in poor light. Remember, this is a sub $800 crop sensor camera...Yea I agree with Frenske, the above shots show nothing special at all. Unless and until sony shows us something vastly different, sony users need to get used to the idea of something besides IQ, specifically noise performance, being the big selling point. AF, tracking, PDAF in LV, all of this can be spun as a selling point. Noise performance, not so much.

Don't get so attached to a brand, buy what makes you happy, and be honest about what you have. I followed these three rules and I ended up buying a K30. Happy shooting.

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(unknown member) Veteran Member • Posts: 3,992
Re: New RX1 samples, WOW!
1

Maxeyesore wrote:

Unless and until sony shows us something vastly different, sony users need to get used to the idea of something besides IQ, specifically noise performance, being the big selling point. AF, tracking, PDAF in LV, all of this can be spun as a selling point. Noise performance, not so much.

Don't get so attached to a brand, buy what makes you happy, and be honest about what you have. I followed these three rules and I ended up buying a K30. Happy shooting.

I'm thinking Sony built the A99 with professionals shooters in mind. Granted... some camera's offer better noise handling than others, though most shooters won't venture past ISO6400 in conventional photography. Not saying we wouldn't(I certainly would), but since there's more to sensor performance that noise performance alone, we end-up having to deal with a sensor broad performance limitations rather than that of noise performance alone.

ie. Looking at the K-30(for example), we find: 14 stops of DR, 10bits tonal and 25bits color @ ISO100 respectively. Which is phenomenal to say the least. However, when we get down to ISO25600 we end-up with: 6 stops of DR, 5bits tonal and 12bits of color.

And so, the general notion here is that shooters will most often try to work with as much IQ as possible against the pressure of shooting at extreme ISO. That being said, based on my calculations, I'd say the A99 will likely prove to be slightly better than the K-30 on the noise performance end of things. Though I'm holding off on the upper end of the scale based on Pentax's low level noise reduction scheme. - hard to say what that's going to look like tbh.

PS. my prediction is that the A99 will be slightly better than the K-5 on the SNR scale, and closer to the D600 for the remainder of the sensor performance attributes(color, DR, tonal and color values).

TrojMacReady
TrojMacReady Veteran Member • Posts: 8,729
Re: New RX1 samples, WOW!

johnbee wrote:

Maxeyesore wrote:

Unless and until sony shows us something vastly different, sony users need to get used to the idea of something besides IQ, specifically noise performance, being the big selling point. AF, tracking, PDAF in LV, all of this can be spun as a selling point. Noise performance, not so much.

Don't get so attached to a brand, buy what makes you happy, and be honest about what you have. I followed these three rules and I ended up buying a K30. Happy shooting.

I'm thinking Sony built the A99 with professionals shooters in mind. Granted... some camera's offer better noise handling than others, though most shooters won't venture past ISO6400 in conventional photography. Not saying we wouldn't(I certainly would), but since there's more to sensor performance that noise performance alone, we end-up having to deal with a sensor broad performance limitations rather than that of noise performance alone.

ie. Looking at the K-30(for example), we find: 14 stops of DR, 10bits tonal and 25bits color @ ISO100 respectively. Which is phenomenal to say the least. However, when we get down to ISO25600 we end-up with: 6 stops of DR, 5bits tonal and 12bits of color.

If I check the DXO measurements I see 13 EV and less than 24 bits, very similar to the A580.

The RX1 should comfortably best that and the A99 will likely too.

Maxeyesore
Maxeyesore Regular Member • Posts: 415
Re: New RX1 samples, WOW!

I guess I just don't like being limited by light. I would rather have a noisy shot than a motion blurred shot, or no shot at all. When pentax releases their FF, considering what the K30 can do, it will be godlike. Also, I'm not sure where non pentax users are getting their info from (DXOmark?), but I can turn NR off completely in raw. The slight diagonal patterns we see in dpr samples at 3200+ are nowhere to be found on my shots. I allow anybody to check samples (original files available), and I never do NR (except 20 value chroma) in PP.

There is a pentax rep interview in a thread explaining their future plans. Apparently, losing the AA filter isn't the most advanced change to come with pentax. According to them, they are working on new technologies to enhance resolution. My K30 will keep me happy at least a year, maybe 2, before I will want to upgrade. By then, A filterless K3 or better will be out. Happy shooting either way.

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TrojMacReady
TrojMacReady Veteran Member • Posts: 8,729
Re: New RX1 samples, WOW!

Maxeyesore wrote:

I guess I just don't like being limited by light. I would rather have a noisy shot than a motion blurred shot, or no shot at all. When pentax releases their FF, considering what the K30 can do, it will be godlike.

You mean if. The rumors have been predicting a FF Pentax for about 9 years now.

And I'm not easily impressed by RAW NR at high ISO when I feel I can do better myself. Your sample shows tons of NR smoothing, to the point where everything looks OOF. And your gallery shows an identical shot with more noise too. Makes you wonder how much extra cooking is involved.

I allow anybody to check samples (original files available), and I never do NR (except 20 value chroma) in PP.

See above. 2 identical samples in your gallery, one with less noise than the other and you showed the one with the least.

I'm not sure where non pentax users are getting their info from (DXOmark?), but I can turn NR off completely in raw.--

No you can't. It's pretty clear RAW can't be turned off above ISO 1600. Not just measurable but also visible.

Nothing wrong with being happy with what you have, but the gospel is muddied by the credibility you managed to build up over the past months. Or rather lack of (over 20 accounts, more than a dozen banned).

Maxeyesore
Maxeyesore Regular Member • Posts: 415
Re: New RX1 samples, WOW!

TrojMacReady wrote:

Maxeyesore wrote:

I guess I just don't like being limited by light. I would rather have a noisy shot than a motion blurred shot, or no shot at all. When pentax releases their FF, considering what the K30 can do, it will be godlike.

You mean if. The rumors have been predicting a FF Pentax for about 9 years now.

And I'm not easily impressed by RAW NR at high ISO when I feel I can do better myself. Your sample shows tons of NR smoothing, to the point where everything looks OOF. And your gallery shows an identical shot with more noise too. Makes you wonder how much extra cooking is involved.

Looks OOF? well I was using a MF 50mm @1.7 in low light. If you think you can do better by all means, show us. 1:80 @ 25K with a super thin DOF (F1.7) and it's not blown out? Very low light indeed. Perhaps it just was a bit OOF, ever think of that?

As for the "rumors", an apsc K3 with 24MP and no LPF will suit me just fine. I doubt a cash giant like hoya will not jump into the mix, either way I will be happy.

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TrojMacReady
TrojMacReady Veteran Member • Posts: 8,729
Re: New RX1 samples, WOW!

Maxeyesore wrote:

TrojMacReady wrote:

Maxeyesore wrote:

I guess I just don't like being limited by light. I would rather have a noisy shot than a motion blurred shot, or no shot at all. When pentax releases their FF, considering what the K30 can do, it will be godlike.

You mean if. The rumors have been predicting a FF Pentax for about 9 years now.

And I'm not easily impressed by RAW NR at high ISO when I feel I can do better myself. Your sample shows tons of NR smoothing, to the point where everything looks OOF. And your gallery shows an identical shot with more noise too. Makes you wonder how much extra cooking is involved.

Looks OOF? well I was using a MF 50mm @1.7 in low light. If you think you can do better by all means, show us. 1:80 @ 25K with a super thin DOF (F1.7) and it's not blown out? Very low light indeed. Perhaps it just was a bit OOF, ever think of that?

The focus point is on the dog, somewhere behind the nose. So something shouldn't be OOF, yet all is incredibly soft. No doubt in part an optical issue, but NR is certainly a factor too. The shadows are smoothed to oblivion.

And where's the explanation for the fact that one of the "originals" is more noisy than the one posted here?

Gary Dean Mercer Clark
Gary Dean Mercer Clark Veteran Member • Posts: 5,606
Re: New RX1 samples, WOW!

BMWX5 wrote:

Amazing photo samples at

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/sony-rx1/sony-rx1GALLERY.HTM

A99 will have the same results! I think Sony finally got it right this time and remember this is a pre production camera!

I think that the RX1 is overpriced, but those who need low light performance and the small footprint--it will be perfect.  However, I think that the DP2M is the most amazing APC fixed focus camera EVER with the near perfect lens.  I ordered one and it comes friday.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/50015282  Link to an amazing image from the camera with crisp across the frame sharpness unequaled by anyone.

Luminous landscape's review:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/sigma_dp2m_review.shtml

If you don't need low light performance--the DP2M may be the perfect camera

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Gary Mercer

OP BMWX5 Veteran Member • Posts: 4,142
Re: New RX1 samples, WOW!

Maxeyesore wrote:

BMWX5 wrote:

Frenske wrote:

There is nothing special about these pictures. The ISO 3200 looks like a typical picture by any Sony DSLT camera. Granted these are most excellent when compared to other "compact" cameras but they costs only 1/10 of the RX1 price.

nothing special? you made me laugh. Show me a usable ISO 25,600 taken by any Sony camera!

I can't show you a usable sony shot, but heres a 25k shot with no PP, taken in poor light. Remember, this is a sub $800 crop sensor camera...Yea I agree with Frenske, the above shots show nothing special at all. Unless and until sony shows us something vastly different, sony users need to get used to the idea of something besides IQ, specifically noise performance, being the big selling point. AF, tracking, PDAF in LV, all of this can be spun as a selling point. Noise performance, not so much.

Don't get so attached to a brand, buy what makes you happy, and be honest about what you have. I followed these three rules and I ended up buying a K30. Happy shooting.

"Don't get so attached to a brand" and yet your avatar is a PENTAX and your signature is PENTAX. You make me laugh. You love Pentax and yet you are here trolling....probably nothing much going on the Pentax forum.

We are talking about Sony Cameras. I don't recall a Sony camera that was able to produce a usable ISO 25,600 until now.

rusticus
rusticus Contributing Member • Posts: 559
Re: New RX1 samples, WOW!

pre-produktion ?! or not -
convince me not the images of the A99 and RX1

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