Bummed, but returning D600

Started Oct 7, 2012 | Discussions
Glen78 Senior Member • Posts: 1,411
Re: Bummed, but returning D600

BTW, if there was a fixed lens camera that shot usable 6400 ISO, I would certainly be interested in checking it out...(plus fast lenses, etc, etc)...

Well, if you don't mind having to stick to a 23 f/2 lens on APS-C (which would definitely be fine with me) the Fuji X100 is useable at 6400 (same sensor as X-Pro1). Once sufficient time has passed to broach the subject of another new camera with my wife (too soon after the $2100 camera I just bought right now) I would consider buying one as a pocketable camera with great IQ and a great second camera to carry around so I do not feel like I need to have a moderate wide angle available for the D600 all the time.

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lancespring Veteran Member • Posts: 3,974
Re: Bummed, but returning D600

jabilson007 wrote:

inasir1971 wrote:

It might be oil on the sensor - quite common on new bodies and easily cleaned by a store (or by yourself with the right gear).

I bought the cleaning kit the store recommended and followed their advice and the product instructions. It did not help. I am within the return time frame, so it is going back. I will get another though because I seriously like the camera. Thanks.

That is oil that you have on there, not dust.  A dust cleaning kit would be worthless in fixing this situation, as you have already discovered.

In these situations what one needs to do is to do a wet cleaning with a solution designed specifically for dealing with oil spots.  I highly recommend using SMEAR AWAY by VISIBLE DUST:

http://visibledust.com/products3.php?pid=303


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jabilson007
OP jabilson007 Regular Member • Posts: 293
Re: Bummed, but returning D600
1

To clarify:

Sample photo for reference was shot at f/16

Many rtifacts were noticeable as low as f/5.6

Wet cleaning was attempted 4 times

Sensor swabs #3 and eclipse fluid used

There was no noticeable improvement.

Camera was brand new with less than 50 clicks.

3 lenses tested.

Returning to online store to purchase locally to get support with this issue.

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jabilson007
OP jabilson007 Regular Member • Posts: 293
Re: Bummed, but returning D600
1

pastordad wrote:

I would like to confirm another D600 with the same issue. Sky shots with two different lenses. Black circles similar to what the OP is seeing. Faint until f/8, very visible above f/11. Approximately a dozen spots over the entire frame. Same position on both lenses. Sensor clean is on. Shutter count 63 on camera.

FWIW, if Nikon expects everyone to wet clean their sensors, they should be providing a kit along with the cameras (does anyone have a camera pixie with a squeegie I could borrow, mine doesn't do windows...

Mine came from an online retailer, planning to send it back...

Agree. I don't think a brand new camera should have this many artifacts on the sensor. Thanks.

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jabilson007
OP jabilson007 Regular Member • Posts: 293
Re: Bummed, but returning D600
1

Yep. Tried cleaning. No improvement. No time for nonsense like this. Moving on. Thanks for your input.

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jabilson007
OP jabilson007 Regular Member • Posts: 293
Re: Bummed, but returning D600

spbStan wrote:

Why not just have the store do a wet cleaning? I am sure they would prefer to do that for you than take the loss on the camera that can only be resold as used since there is no defect so Nikon will not take it back for full credit.

Dust happens so learn to do normal maintenance and preventative maintenance.  It is no big deal.

Yes will work with local store with this issue on future purchase. Thanks.

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jabilson007
OP jabilson007 Regular Member • Posts: 293
Re: Bummed, but returning D600
1

u007 wrote:

Gotta love America where you an return a dslr for having dust on the sensor. LOL

No wonder so many of you guys get suckered with used cameras and all the paranoid threads about whether the camera you got has been used before.

It's a dSLR - it's always going to get dust and oil on the sensor. Just learn to clean it - get eclipse cleaning fluid and sensor swabs (type 3) from amazon, then clean it. Are you going to return every single camera when it gets dusty?

Gotta love America, where you can return an item within a store specified time if not COMPLETELY satisfied. Store should send back to Nikon. If enough people do this it may spur better QC or design.

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jabilson007
OP jabilson007 Regular Member • Posts: 293
Re: Not wrong to expect a product that is ready to use
1

Toccata47 wrote:

bocajrs wrote:

not a deal breaker..that's fore sure..

I disagree. Oil on the sensor renders a camera unusable out of the gate and it can't always be remedied by the end user, particularly if they don't recognize what is causing the issue. If a $2,100 camera needs to be serviced prior to use isn't a deal breaker, where should one draw the line?

Agree 100 percent. Thanks.

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jabilson007
OP jabilson007 Regular Member • Posts: 293
Re: Bummed, but returning D600

zzzzzzzzzzz wrote:

This is not a reason to return a perfectly good camera.  Most new D-SLRs may end up doing this.  My D7000 did it and my D800 did it.  My D90 and D50 did not.  Just clean it and move on.

Unfortunately, not "perfectly good" as you put it. Tried cleaning. Moving on.

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jabilson007
OP jabilson007 Regular Member • Posts: 293
Re: Thank you for proving most complaints on this forum are baseless!
2

Nippondenso wrote:

jabilson007 wrote:

So now I am in the process of returning the D600 and the 24-85 vr and looking to find a D600 without this flaw. I have never seen anything this bad and could not be cleaned. You may me asking why the 24-85? Here's the rub while in the camera store I tested the D600 with a 24-70 2.8 and 70-200 vr ii. Gotta have them!

What a waste of time and resources.

Sure was a waste of MY time and resources. Taking time away from shooting. Bah!

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jabilson007
OP jabilson007 Regular Member • Posts: 293
Re: Bummed, but returning D600

rgolub wrote:

You're over reacting.  That's at f/16 - right where it should be to show dust bunnies and oil spots.  But you don't shoot at f/16 routinely.  Or, if you're looking for the best possible image, you shouldn't shoot at f/16.

Shoot your test pic at f/5.6 and you won't see much.  Even if you really, really want to shoot at f/16, all you have to do is to wet clean the sensor correctly.  All of your spots are on the edge - that's the hardest spot to get right but with some practice it isn't difficult at all.

Your dealer really should give you the first cleaning free, however.  Most dealers that I've talked to will do it for the first couple of times on a brand new camera.  Makes you come into the store and look at all those important photographic gizmos that you most certainly need.

That would be perfect, getting the first cleaning free. I could test before leaving store and get it cleaned if needed or later if the issue shows. I will check into this. Thanks!

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Scott Oberle Regular Member • Posts: 255
Re: Bummed, but returning D600

If the store you bought the camera from wants $50 to do a cleaning I would return the camera to them and not do business with them in the future. That is rediculous. If on the other hand they would help/show you how to do the cleaning I would keep the camera.

Note: Always turn off the power before changing lenses. If power is on there will be a slight charge on the sensor which will tend to collect dust.

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jabilson007
OP jabilson007 Regular Member • Posts: 293
Re: Bummed, but returning D600

pastordad wrote:

I am totally okay with folks learning how to clean sensors, but Nikon is recommending wet cleans to be done by them or dealers (D600, pg 304, step 7). Sounds to me like its on you if you do it and something goes wrong. Maybe I'm a bit paranoid with a $2000+ piece of tech that I don't think should have problems out of the box, but then again, I'm not the guy rooting iphones either.

Excess oil is a defect, maybe a common one, but a defect non-the-less. I would rather have Nikon pre-test the shutter 1000 times at the factory, clean it, and send it out that way, than require customers to have to DIY a non-recommended by the manufacturer fix, or send it in for a repair, IMHO.

BTW, if there was a fixed lens camera that shot usable 6400 ISO, I would certainly be interested in checking it out...(plus fast lenses, etc, etc)...

Agree. Thanks.

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jabilson007
OP jabilson007 Regular Member • Posts: 293
Re: Bummed, but returning D600

lancespring wrote:

jabilson007 wrote:

inasir1971 wrote:

It might be oil on the sensor - quite common on new bodies and easily cleaned by a store (or by yourself with the right gear).

I bought the cleaning kit the store recommended and followed their advice and the product instructions. It did not help. I am within the return time frame, so it is going back. I will get another though because I seriously like the camera. Thanks.

That is oil that you have on there, not dust.  A dust cleaning kit would be worthless in fixing this situation, as you have already discovered.

In these situations what one needs to do is to do a wet cleaning with a solution designed specifically for dealing with oil spots.  I highly recommend using SMEAR AWAY by VISIBLE DUST:

http://visibledust.com/products3.php?pid=303


Yeah I tried a blower and then wet cleaning 4 times. I'll check the product you suggest. Thanks

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jabilson007
OP jabilson007 Regular Member • Posts: 293
Re: Bummed, but returning D600
2

Apparently, the consensus of this forum is "just clean it", "America is stupid", "just accept substandard QC", "limit yourself to basic cameras" and "invest in Visible Dust" if I want to shoot full frame. Did I get that right? LOL. Thanks to those who sincerely tried to help.

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fr45er Forum Member • Posts: 94
Re: Bummed, but returning D600
1

This is exactly what I had,  same location also.  Camera being RMA`d through amazon

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antoineb Veteran Member • Posts: 6,650
A case of you got the sensor dirty yourself perhaps?

sorry but you don't make a lot of sense to me:

- if your sensor showed spots a new camera, then I don't see why all the rant - this is covered under warranty obviously.  Now that cameras have live view, it is easy enough to see any spots in real time by just going to say f22 and pointing at a blank wall.  No need for special testing.

So as per my logic, you'd have played with your camera, seen this major problem, returned it to the store under warranty probably within the first week.

- the fact that you did NOT return the camera at once (which anyone would have done upon seeing lots of spots), but rather went through several cleaning cycles, suggests that perhaps you were one of those unlucky people who "cleaned" perhaps too aggressively.

Cleaning a sensor is never an innocent task.  It needs to be done very carefully.  Blowing air is the only safe method (some years ago some Hungarian guys had done several cycles of putting LOTS of dust on their sensors, then getting it all of with a blow-drier!).

Methods involving any liquid always present a risk.  The good kits will generally involve liquids that are not harmful, the bad ones will be harmful, and in any case you can never know for sure until it's too late.

What am I missing?

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Tommot1965 Senior Member • Posts: 1,039
Re: Bummed, but returning D600

jabilson007 wrote:

Apparently, the consensus of this forum is "just clean it", "America is stupid", "just accept substandard QC", "limit yourself to basic cameras" and "invest in Visible Dust" if I want to shoot full frame. Did I get that right? LOL. Thanks to those who sincerely tried to help.

Nah Im with you...you shouldn't have this problem and you shouldn't have to deal with it yourself...far too many Nikon Fanboys on the forum to give you a fair hearing....also Im not American ,,so perhaps that helps ...LOL

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caspianm Senior Member • Posts: 2,477
Re: Bummed, but returning D600

New camera with dust is not common. I have seen new lens with dust inside viewed very closely.

There are proper ways to change lens to minimize the chance to get dust inside. Regardless, it is up to the owner with new camera to return or clean. Returning poses its own hassles such as the waiting period unless it is purchased locally.

If need to use wet method most likely it is not dust. Or it was dust but improper wet cleaning caused it to stick. Down the road, learning how to keep your sensor clean and getting it clean is part of ownership experience.

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jabilson007
OP jabilson007 Regular Member • Posts: 293
Re: A case of you got the sensor dirty yourself perhaps?

antoineb wrote:

sorry but you don't make a lot of sense to me:

- if your sensor showed spots a new camera, then I don't see why all the rant - this is covered under warranty obviously.  Now that cameras have live view, it is easy enough to see any spots in real time by just going to say f22 and pointing at a blank wall.  No need for special testing.

So as per my logic, you'd have played with your camera, seen this major problem, returned it to the store under warranty probably within the first week.

- the fact that you did NOT return the camera at once (which anyone would have done upon seeing lots of spots), but rather went through several cleaning cycles, suggests that perhaps you were one of those unlucky people who "cleaned" perhaps too aggressively.

Cleaning a sensor is never an innocent task.  It needs to be done very carefully.  Blowing air is the only safe method (some years ago some Hungarian guys had done several cycles of putting LOTS of dust on their sensors, then getting it all of with a blow-drier!).

Methods involving any liquid always present a risk.  The good kits will generally involve liquids that are not harmful, the bad ones will be harmful, and in any case you can never know for sure until it's too late.

What am I missing?

You are missing that I did not check the sensor immediately upon opening the package. I opened the box, put my brand new 50mm on  and did some ISO tests.  I realized I would need to get the grip so I put it on shelf and waited for it to show. I saw others suggesting this way be an issue but disregarded it as uncommon. When the grip arrived I decided to give it a look aaren't was very bad IMO. Others had said "just clean it" so I tried. Don't think I didn't try blowing it out first because I did, many times.  Wet cleaning as recommended by local store was unsuccessful. I decided it not worthy of any more effort and is being returned. I will be dealing with my local store for next purchase and hope to have a clean sensor when leaving the store. I understand it is my responsibility after that to maintain its cleanliness.

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