Bummed, but returning D600

Started Oct 7, 2012 | Discussions
larrywilson
larrywilson Veteran Member • Posts: 6,639
Re: Bummed, but returning D600
1

Looks like a few dust bunnies to me.  Have the shop clean it, then check it for the dust particles, if ok then next time clean it yourself.  I would not return the camera for a few dust bunnies.  Welcome to an interchangable lens camera, it just happens.  No big deal.

Larry

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Glen78 Senior Member • Posts: 1,411
Re: Bummed, but returning D600

I pulled up an image from my D600 with a large amount of sky and spent a long time searching for dust and oil spots but could only find one dust spot and it was definitely on the lens and not the sensor. This photo was after about 1000 shutter actuations. I wonder if there was a specific batch of cameras with the issue. I do perform an in camera sensor clean if I have been out shooting all day but have not manually cleaned (with either air or swab) the sensor yet.

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Marinos Regular Member • Posts: 174
Re: Bummed, but returning D600

Not just that,

But return a camera that may potentially have been damaged by the act of cleaning the sensor. (I am not saying the OP did do this) but someone may.

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gl2k
gl2k Veteran Member • Posts: 3,232
sorry couldn't resist ...

Nippondenso wrote:

u007 wrote:

Gotta love America where you an return a dslr for having dust on the sensor. LOL

No wonder so many of you guys get suckered with used cameras and all the paranoid threads about whether the camera you got has been used before.

It's a dSLR - it's always going to get dust and oil on the sensor. Just learn to clean it - get eclipse cleaning fluid and sensor swabs (type 3) from amazon, then clean it. Are you going to return every single camera when it gets dusty?

This is just another example of why America has to pay more for our products, to pacify the clueless when they think they have an earth-shattering problem.  No wonder we have cornered the market on stupidity, we have the highest rate of clueless individuals per capita than any other county in the world.


Your posts make me believe that there was indeed only one (1) defective D800. But this model went through so many hands that it appeared to us that there are thousands of defective copies.

big lol

inasir1971
inasir1971 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,702
Re: Bummed, but returning D600

I switched to Nikon this year and dirt in the camera/viewfinder seems to be an issue with all the bodies that I have gotten since. I was just reading a review of the D600 by Mansurov and he estimates that 2/3rd may have this (I guess from the three units he used).

While I understand and agree that this should not be the case and it is a failing, the remedy of having it cleaned takes an hour or two and beats the alternative of returning the camera for a new one because in all likelihood the new one may suffer the same.

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PatFahey Regular Member • Posts: 453
Re: Bummed, but returning D600

jabilson007 wrote:

I bought the cleaning kit the store recommended and followed their advice and the product instructions. It did not help. I am within the return time frame, so it is going back. I will get another though because I seriously like the camera. Thanks.

Don't buy another D600.  You will have the same "problem".  The shutters on the new mid- and high-range Nikons throw a lot of oil when they are new.   I saw it with a new d3x, but saw much less of a problem with the D800e -- but it is there.

Your best bet is to learn how to use the cleaning kit that you were sold, or stick to a simpler camera.

Blow the dust off first with a good blower (so you don't scrape grit across the filter) and then carefully follow the instructions for the wet clean.  It's pretty simple once you get the hang of it, and it is just another part of owning a good DSLR.

-Pat

PHXAZCRAIG
PHXAZCRAIG Forum Pro • Posts: 15,451
Re: Bummed, but returning D600
1

Sensor cleaning takes technique, and that takes practice.   I've done some of my sensors 7 times to get it right.  (In one sitting.  Usually the last few cleanings were to get dust off that I was just shoving from corner to corner).

Keep cleaning until you get it right.   Especially if you have pollen or perhaps oil on there, it's tough to get off.  You may be cleaning too lightly, so try a bit more pressure and look for changes.

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cactusklaw5schel Forum Member • Posts: 90
Re: Bummed, but returning D600
1

First I do not yet own the D600 but own both the D300 and the D7000.The problem described did not affect my D300 but repeatedly affected my D7000.It was round black spots with a slight white aura around them .I tried both my "Rocket Blaster" ,the in camera cleaning mechanism …no joy.Before I resorted to cleaning with my Sensor dust kit ,I researched the D7000 forum in Dpreview and found many many tales similar to my own .I had a Nikon authorized agent clean with "Eclipse" the spots came back … clusters very visible from F8 on.I located the exact problem  after researching many Nikon forums and found that overzealous oiling of the mirror chamber on the D7000 allowed when the mirror flipped up ,oil droplets to spray on the AA filter above the sensor. Detailed the problem and sent the camera to Nikon who replaced the mirror chamber ..cleaned the sensor and totally solved the problem gratis.I was and am pleased. Does this mean the Camera is defective…absolutely not. Can it always be solved by home cleaning …possibly not.Is it worth mentioning so that others   can be aware before buying …absolutely yes. I do not know the writer nor do I know if this is a one off problem.Be patient and listen for others with similar complaints .The D600 looks like a fabulous body.If no D400 I shall be delighted to be an FX owner perhaps earlier if I  can not wait any longer.Best AlanK New Mexico

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Glen78 Senior Member • Posts: 1,411
Re: Bummed, but returning D600
1

Just out of curiosity why would the aperture matter for a particle on the sensor. I can understand how it affects the lens but it seems to me a spot on the sensor would look the same regardless of aperture.

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Per Baekgaard Senior Member • Posts: 1,288
Re: Bummed, but returning D600
2

Glen78 wrote:

Just out of curiosity why would the aperture matter for a particle on the sensor. I can understand how it affects the lens but it seems to me a spot on the sensor would look the same regardless of aperture.

A simple analogy: smaller aperture means the light rays will come from a smaller area -- the light is "harder", in the same way a bare flash is harder than one placed in a softbox.

Hard light throws hard, deep and small shadows, which in the case of dust on a sensor means there will be a small and pretty dark "dust bunny" on your picture.

On the other hand, at larger apertures the light usually comes from a larger area/in more directions -- i.e. it is softer. The shadow cast by soft light on the sensor will be larger -- but also less intense.

Just try it; you probably also have at least some level of dust on your sensor

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pastordad Regular Member • Posts: 111
Re: Bummed, but returning D600
1

I would like to confirm another D600 with the same issue. Sky shots with two different lenses. Black circles similar to what the OP is seeing. Faint until f/8, very visible above f/11. Approximately a dozen spots over the entire frame. Same position on both lenses. Sensor clean is on. Shutter count 63 on camera.

FWIW, if Nikon expects everyone to wet clean their sensors, they should be providing a kit along with the cameras (does anyone have a camera pixie with a squeegie I could borrow, mine doesn't do windows...

Mine came from an online retailer, planning to send it back...

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rgolub
rgolub Senior Member • Posts: 2,061
Re: Bummed, but returning D600

You're over reacting.  That's at f/16 - right where it should be to show dust bunnies and oil spots.  But you don't shoot at f/16 routinely.  Or, if you're looking for the best possible image, you shouldn't shoot at f/16.

Shoot your test pic at f/5.6 and you won't see much.  Even if you really, really want to shoot at f/16, all you have to do is to wet clean the sensor correctly.  All of your spots are on the edge - that's the hardest spot to get right but with some practice it isn't difficult at all.

Your dealer really should give you the first cleaning free, however.  Most dealers that I've talked to will do it for the first couple of times on a brand new camera.  Makes you come into the store and look at all those important photographic gizmos that you most certainly need.

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rgolub
rgolub Senior Member • Posts: 2,061
Re: Bummed, but returning D600

What f stop did you take the pics at?  Dust bunnies don't show up much until you stop down to f/11 and more.  That's diffraction territory so most photographers tend to stay more open.

If you want to scare yourself, take a picture of the sky, bring it into Photoshop, duplicate the layer, set blend to multiply, maybe do it again, bring up the exposure and all sorts of iccky things will show up.

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rgolub
rgolub Senior Member • Posts: 2,061
Re: Bummed, but returning D600
1

pastordad wrote:

Mine came from an online retailer, planning to send it back... 

You should consider getting a fixed camera / lens system.  If you don't want to clean your sensor on occasion, a DSLR may not be the right tool for you.

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RicksAstro
RicksAstro Veteran Member • Posts: 3,858
Re: Bummed, but returning D600
2

Glen78 wrote:

Just out of curiosity why would the aperture matter for a particle on the sensor. I can understand how it affects the lens but it seems to me a spot on the sensor would look the same regardless of aperture.

If the particles were actually on the sensor itself, you would have a point...aperture wouldn't matter as much.

But the particles are on the AA filter which is a bit above the sensor, so the rays of light can fill in the shadow behind the particle at wide apertures.

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pastordad Regular Member • Posts: 111
Re: Bummed, but returning D600
3

I am totally okay with folks learning how to clean sensors, but Nikon is recommending wet cleans to be done by them or dealers (D600, pg 304, step 7). Sounds to me like its on you if you do it and something goes wrong. Maybe I'm a bit paranoid with a $2000+ piece of tech that I don't think should have problems out of the box, but then again, I'm not the guy rooting iphones either.

Excess oil is a defect, maybe a common one, but a defect non-the-less. I would rather have Nikon pre-test the shutter 1000 times at the factory, clean it, and send it out that way, than require customers to have to DIY a non-recommended by the manufacturer fix, or send it in for a repair, IMHO.

BTW, if there was a fixed lens camera that shot usable 6400 ISO, I would certainly be interested in checking it out...(plus fast lenses, etc, etc)...

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RedFox88 Forum Pro • Posts: 29,126
Re: Bummed, but returning D600
3

jabilson007 wrote:

Here is a sample of what I am seeing on the sensor. I may be overreacting, but I could not get it cleaned in 4 attempts and the store wants $50 to do it. There are more than 15 spots. For this kind of money it should be cleaner.

That's a pretty clean image sensor for f/16.  Cleaning an image sensor is not an easy thing and often takes several physical cleanings to get it looking good.  And you have just a few spots in one corner of the image.  You'll probably be using f/16 (or you should be) infrequently. And often those dust spots will get hidden over colors since it's really only over solid white or blue sky where dust shows up.

If you get another d600 unit you'll likely go through the exact same issue and there's a good chance the dust on the sensor will be worse than the one you have now!  Listen to the advice you are being given, and don't get all egotistical thinkink the image sensor should be perfectly clean. Dust has been an image throughout the life of photography with film and following photography into digital too.

Glen78 Senior Member • Posts: 1,411
Re: Bummed, but returning D600
2

Thanks for your answers Per and Rick, makes sense, I didn't think about the AA filter leaving a bit of space to the sensor. I pulled up an image of about 1/2 sky that was shot at f/8 and again attempted to find spots on the sensor and could not find anything. In fact, the only thing I came out of spending about 10 minutes with my photo at 100% is to further reinforce how amazing the D600 is. At 100% viewing the whole image looked tack sharp and detailed, and this was taken with a 28-80G plastic zoom lens from the late 90s! I would rarely shoot higher than f/8 so I probably won't bother testing it further, just happy to have a camera that does not appear to have the issue as I am not the type to attempt to service a $2000 camera, I'll be happy to take it into my local repair shop once a year or so and pay them to do it.

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CraigBennett
CraigBennett Contributing Member • Posts: 699
Re: Bummed, but returning D600

When I had my D1Xs, I had to wet clean their sensors all the time....they were dust magnets.  And I was very careful changing lens.  It was better with my D2Xs, though I did clean them as needed.

It's just a fact of DSLRs that the sensors will need cleaning, even early in their service life.  I guess from a strictly mechanical frame point, I would rather the shutter and mirror assemble be over lubricated and have to clean my sensor than they being under-lubricated and shorten their service life.  I certainly would rather clean my sensor than to have my camera life shorten by Nikon operating the shutter many times before shipment.

I would of never sent my camera back for this problem.

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Glen78 Senior Member • Posts: 1,411
Re: Bummed, but returning D600

f/8, I would rarely shoot higher than that, except for tripod mounted architectural photography (which is the main reason I bought the camera) where I may occasionanlly use f/11 for outdoor or large indoor shots but never higher than that. I'll try an f/11 all sky shot and see what happens.

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