Thumbs up / Thumbs down already being abused

Started Oct 6, 2012 | Discussions
Richard Veteran Member • Posts: 4,858
You vote for status? LOL

Great Bustard wrote:

Richard wrote:

Great Bustard wrote:

Richard wrote:

But I think that freedom of speech is important and DPR does a good job in not silencing those who may disagree with the popular.

I absolutely concur.  However, if changing the voting from anonymous to public changes how people vote, then what does that say about the people voting?

Does it matter what it says about the people voting?

For anyone that takes the votes seriously, of course it does.

It means nothing.

Do you have to disclose which president you vote for, or what laws you vote for, no, why is this any different.?

It's different because back in the day, when the secret ballot was such a big deal, people could be in serious jeopardy for voting the "wrong" way.  It's still like that many places.  But, on DPR -- please.

Knowing the name of a persons avatar which is not even his real name could harm them because they don't think the way you do, or because you could consider them a fanboi or a troll. LOL. No substance to your argument.

In reality, how does it create responsibility?  My username could be jomama and I could say I am from Canada, how will that make me responsible, I can also sign up as more than one person how changing voting so we know who votes for what. I think the idea is kind of dumb because it will not create and sort of ownership or responsibility because the voters start out anonymous. So what, you disclose their anonymous name. LOL

Well, true that most of the people posting here are anonymous.  After all, my name isn't really "Great Bustard" (sorry to disappoint a few of you!).  But, usernames do acquire a certain status over time.  So, inasmuch as that status matters, transparency in voting (and complaints filed) matters.

Ah, so now we understand why, so that you can gain or lose status in the eyes of others, content means nothing, status means everything.

However, if it is merely the content of the post that matters to you, and the username means nothing, then, sure, transparency means nothing.

First the arguing that if the topic was important enough to vote on people should reply and if they don't reply and vote, and if they should vote, we should see who is voting. So content was all that was really important. What else is there?  Status? Let me guess, you own Mac products. LOL

Look, it means nothing other than if a lot of people vote, it May be a topic of importance because people take the time to vote. You vote for status, thats a new one on me.

Great Bustard Forum Pro • Posts: 39,705
I don't vote at all.

Richard wrote:

Great Bustard wrote:

Well, true that most of the people posting here are anonymous.  After all, my name isn't really "Great Bustard" (sorry to disappoint a few of you!).  But, usernames do acquire a certain status over time.  So, inasmuch as that status matters, transparency in voting (and complaints filed) matters.

Ah, so now we understand why, so that you can gain or lose status in the eyes of others, content means nothing, status means everything.

I don't vote, I don't care about votes.  I am simply talking about the purpose of voting at all for those for whom it does matter.

In short, some votes are "more equal" than others.

However, if it is merely the content of the post that matters to you, and the username means nothing, then, sure, transparency means nothing.

First the arguing that if the topic was important enough to vote on people should reply and if they don't reply and vote, and if they should vote, we should see who is voting. So content was all that was really important. What else is there?  Status? Let me guess, you own Mac products. LOL

Swing and a miss.  Oh -- almost forgot:  LOL.

Look, it means nothing other than if a lot of people vote, it May be a topic of importance because people take the time to vote. You vote for status, thats a new one on me.

Simply because a lot of anonymous people voted on a post does not mean the topic is "important".  It merely means a lot of anonymous people voted on a post for unknown reasons.

And the value of anonymous vote, for me, is exactly zero.

Richard Veteran Member • Posts: 4,858
Re: I don't vote at all.

Great Bustard wrote:

Richard wrote:

Great Bustard wrote:

Well, true that most of the people posting here are anonymous.  After all, my name isn't really "Great Bustard" (sorry to disappoint a few of you!).  But, usernames do acquire a certain status over time.  So, inasmuch as that status matters, transparency in voting (and complaints filed) matters.

Ah, so now we understand why, so that you can gain or lose status in the eyes of others, content means nothing, status means everything.

I don't vote, I don't care about votes.  I am simply talking about the purpose of voting at all for those for whom it does matter.

In short, some votes are "more equal" than others.

I would say that some opinions are more equal than others because they are based on knowledge and experience. But not votes.

However, if it is merely the content of the post that matters to you, and the username means nothing, then, sure, transparency means nothing.

First the arguing that if the topic was important enough to vote on people should reply and if they don't reply and vote, and if they should vote, we should see who is voting. So content was all that was really important. What else is there?  Status? Let me guess, you own Mac products. LOL

Swing and a miss.  Oh -- almost forgot:  LOL.

Look, it means nothing other than if a lot of people vote, it May be a topic of importance because people take the time to vote. You vote for status, thats a new one on me.

Simply because a lot of anonymous people voted on a post does not mean the topic is "important".  It merely means a lot of anonymous people voted on a post for unknown reasons.

And the value of anonymous vote, for me, is exactly zero.

And you are entitled to your opinion and even though we disagree, I still like you, or rather your webpersonality/wit/ability to debate without excess emotion at least.

JoannaR
JoannaR Regular Member • Posts: 217
Re: Thumbs up / Thumbs down already being abused

sean000 wrote:

My hope is that positive ratings will help the better responses rise to the top of the pile, but I can also see people getting into thumbs-down wars.

Man oh man, do you ever spend time on Y! Answers?  Crazy, crazy stuff there - people running around thumbing down everyone and everything.  I can see that it's already happening here.  As long as there are no major consequences - such as thumbed-down posts or threads being moved in order of appearance due to this new development - then I'll just do what I do on other forums - ignore it.

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AOKH
AOKH Senior Member • Posts: 2,675
Re: Thumbs up / Thumbs down already being abused

Dreemer wrote:

Imho the Thumbs up/Thumbs down rating is meaningless in its present form, just clutter and a waste of resources.

It’s the anonymity that’s the problem, unlike when a reply to a thread is endorsed by a poster typing +1 (nt), brief but efficient. Knowing the posters identity gives their +1 a certain validity that the thumbs up/down will never have.

SteveMi

+1! Kinda like on FB; you can see who clicked "like", but get rid of the "thumbs down" feature alltogether.

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Regards. Anders

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bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 53,150
Re: Freedom means nothing without responsibility - Opinions mean nothing without Substance
1

NetMage wrote:

I miss the ignore option...

I ignored it.

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Bob

peweuk Contributing Member • Posts: 540
Re: The consequences of misused voting will be seen if this happens

Chancelynn2002 wrote:  As long as there are no major consequences - such as thumbed-down posts or threads being moved in order of appearance due to this new development - then I'll just do what I do on other forums - ignore it.


Unfortunately here is a quote from DPR's original annoucement:

"Additionally, we've incorporated ratings into the forums, so as you browse through threads you can up- and down-vote posts. This will later be tied-in to user rankings and will also allow us to add a feature to rank posts by popularity - making it easier to get to the most interesting threads."

Which is an interesting intention, but unfortunately with the way that some individuals have been reporting that others are using the votes, the outcome will simply generate more dissatisfaction and make such ranking meeningless.

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digitalshooter
digitalshooter Forum Pro • Posts: 19,604
Yep rediculous feature (nt)
2
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Thanks,
Digitalshooter
PS: all posts are just my opinion!

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jonikon Veteran Member • Posts: 5,945
Re: Thumbs up / Thumbs down already being abused
1

Patco wrote:

jonikon wrote:

The thumbs up and down just makes for a nasty experience and yet another reason to not like the new wholesale changes to the forums. I guess it's time to find something better to do with my time.

I guess someone with a -49on one of his posts would see it that way


http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/50000318

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Patco
A photograph is more than a bunch of pixels

Since I have not visited that thread after the first day I started it, I had not noticed that. Nice to know I'm being read!

- Jon

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photomeme Regular Member • Posts: 225
Re: Funny
1

you appear not to have read my email, choosing instead to spout platitudes.

i speak as an industry veteran.

Kim Letkeman
Kim Letkeman Forum Pro • Posts: 33,424
-1 (but it means nothing)

Richard wrote:

Great Bustard wrote:

For anyone that takes the votes seriously, of course it does.

It means nothing.

Agree

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Bob Meyer Veteran Member • Posts: 5,375
Re: Totally devoid of usefulness
2

Here's an example:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/50023071

My post is completely factual. The only reason I can image anyone gave it a thumbs down is because they don't like their manhood, er, camera, being criticized.

Absolutely stupid. The first post in that thread has a ton of thumbs downs, too. Why?  Most likely because it dares to say the OM-D isn't perfect, and the fan-boys churn out to try to shout the OP down. Give my 10 minutes, and I can find at least 10 more examples of similarly meaningless ratings.

If it's not useful, it should be removed. Promptly. As it stands, it's just annoying.

Oh, one more little bit if stupidity:  you can thumbs up your own posts. That's really meaningful, too.

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I've stopped thinking in terms of "equivalent" focal lengths on m43. 25mm is what it is, and what it might be similar to on some other format doesn't matter to me any more. We need to learn what to expect from our current equipment, not keep mapping it to the old. No one refers to their 50mm FF lens as "equivalent to 80mm on MF."

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aardvark7
aardvark7 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,110
You have it exactly right

For it to be any good to me, as bobn2 says, I would have to know its worth.

You quite rightly point out that a glance down the 'ratings' gives no indication whatsoever as to what might be implied. Is a strong thumbs up of interest to me, or a strong thumbs down complete drivel? Clearly there is no correlation whatsoever, so I ignore them altogether and I would imagine most others do likewise.

If everyone ignores them as having no value for indicating what may be worth reading, then they are simply in the way. As such, the old adage comes to mind: Keep It Simple Stupid!

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To be decided...

herbymel Veteran Member • Posts: 6,063
Re: Thumbs up / Thumbs down already being abused

I think it's basically a useless system, all it really is accomplishing is making some users upset that the group they are part of dislikes what they say, it's doubtful someone is going to go into a thread and look at all the thumbs up, and feel the, "wholesome goodness the group bestows upon them." Having a large portion of negative marks and not knowing who or where they came from can only cause rancor and distrust. A person who perhaps I don't have the best relationship with may see a negative mark and assume I was the one who gave them a thumbs down when that wasn't the case at all. Is that ever going to help change around that relationship. Yes, it has happened in a few cases my attitudes and feelings toward some people on here has gone from worse to better. I keep an open mind.

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Herby

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DuaneV
DuaneV Senior Member • Posts: 1,350
Re: Thumbs up / Thumbs down already being abused
4

I think its absolutely gut-busting hilarious that people actually CARE about a thumbs up/thumbs down.  I think its absolutely PATHETIC that this site felt the need to put that "feature" on this new calamity of a site.  Its like some popularity contest on a news site or something.  I hope my post gets 500 thumbs down, I honestly do, because its that much of a joke.  What are we, teenage girls on facebook?

Richard Veteran Member • Posts: 4,858
Re: Funny

photomeme wrote:

you appear not to have read my email, choosing instead to spout platitudes.

i speak as an industry veteran.

I did not get an email or a PM from you, so there was nothing to read. I think my email address is hidden anyway unless they changed that in the upgrade. So is this some sort of lie?

You are probably a veteran, so old that you don't really have a grasp on the "industry"

It really doesn't matter if you are in the industry or not. DPreview has been doing this a long time. I joined in 2001 and lurked before then. They have now and always had a great website. I have always liked the look and the forums look great and the new ones are an improvement. Features like voting are great, they think ahead and give most people what they want, except for the complainers here. If you were in the industry, you would know this but you complain.

Anyway, you are probably not even a photographer, you have no gallery, links, challenges, nothing. You have 188 posts and you are complaining about a great website that has been around a long time? Why am I even having a discussion with you. You called the website a failure in another post, but clearly it is not, so you are wrong, and you are just here to complain. Good luck on that. I had some problems when they first launched, but they fixed them. Life is good at DPreview.

photomeme Regular Member • Posts: 225
Re: Funny
1

my posting, not email.  (i'm fighting this ridiculous rich format box that belongs in an email engine, not a forum).

you did not read my posting.  you're responding to my substantive points with unrelated platitudes. Everyone sees it.  You're being ridiculous.

sucking up to someone?  or just preening your feathers?

you seem naively unaware of what's happened with the dpreview since the acquisition.

get a clue, the current team has not been doing this a long time.

this dpreview forum initiativeappears to incorporate the worst unlearned lessons over at  amazon, and is repeating mistakes played out time and again in the industry over a decade ago.  There are accepted engineering solutions and widely known best practices for everything that ails the site.  (although they've created a few problems even I haven't seen before).  if they, like you, don't know these solutions and practice, they should hire a few well known folks in the space with this expertise.

dpreview's ham fisted wreck is getting worse, not better, and they don't even see the icebergs dead ahead.

instead of rolling back, scrapping this "launch" and taking six months to re-engineer this pre-alpha mess, they've played a classic but awkward damage control move: brought back the original site creator Phil Askey to stem the tide of departures from the forums.  Yeah, sure, right, he just happened to show up, ROFL.  I don't buy it.

meanwhile substantive forum activity is down.  they'll run this titanic straight to the sea bottom at this rate.

Detail Man
Detail Man Forum Pro • Posts: 16,688
Re: Strained Logic Abounds ...
1

photomeme wrote:

instead of rolling back, scrapping this "launch" and taking six months to re-engineer this pre-alpha mess, they've played a classic but awkward damage control move: brought back the original site creator Phil Askey to stem the tide of departures from the forums.  Yeah, sure, right, he just happened to show up, ROFL.  I don't buy it.

While I am rather thoroughly unimpressed with your jousting opponent, I thought that I would point out that Phil Askey appears to sometimes browse the local fora - and posted to a thread that I started a few months ago. Therefore, it seems that your assumptions (above) are merely that ...

Richard Veteran Member • Posts: 4,858
Lets get clue.
3

photomeme wrote:

my posting, not email.  (i'm fighting this ridiculous rich format box that belongs in an email engine, not a forum).

This took me a little time to get use to but it works. I have seen other forums go this way and it works very well.

So lets get some clue. Does the forum work? Yes, can you read it? Yes. Can you post? Yes. Does the voting system cause me not want to be here? No, because if I don't like a feature there is an ignore button in my brain for things I don't like to look at.

you did not read my posting.  you're responding to my substantive points with unrelated platitudes. Everyone sees it.  You're being ridiculous.

I did read your post. It was silly, and this one is even more so.

sucking up to someone?  or just preening your feathers?

No, I don't know anyone at DPReview. I only know the site works, the forum works, it is free, it has great information. It has not gone downhill, it is only getting better.

you seem naively unaware of what's happened with the dpreview since the acquisition.

Again, your point is an opinion, and an observation, one that I don't share and an observation I disagree with. The site is moving forward in a positive direction. The site is updated, the forum is updated, both for the better. You seem to be the one preening their feathers.

get a clue, the current team has not been doing this a long time.

I have clue, the current team is still pumping out articles, reviews. What do you expect for free. If you were paying $50 a year, your might be able to complain and it actually not sound selfish and self absorbed, but you are not paying, it is free and it is much better than any other site. I believe it is number 1 IMHO. Show me another site that is better so you can go there and leave this place which you hate.

this dpreview forum initiativeappears to incorporate the worst unlearned lessons over at  amazon, and is repeating mistakes played out time and again in the industry over a decade ago.There are accepted engineering solutions and widely known best practices for everything that ails the site.  (although they've created a few problems even I haven't seen before).  if they, like you, don't know these solutions and practice, they should hire a few well known folks in the space with this expertise.

I use Amazon all the time. I buy stuff from it all the time. The website works. It does not hinder me from purchasing. It allows people who buy the product to write reviews that I can read and make an informed decision. I was never able to do that before the internet, I would walk around the mall or best buy and hope for the best. I think they are doing great. They don't need to hire know it alls like you who would only ruin either site. Please God, don't let people like this complainer get anywhere near the web site decisions making for Amazon or Dpreview.

dpreview's ham fisted wreck is getting worse, not better, and they don't even see the icebergs dead ahead.

You must live in a different universe that no one else lives in. While you are entitled to your opinion, there is not ship wreck here. This site is doing well. Even if they cut back on the reviews, articles, they had less people, it still would be an awsome site. It is free and your expectations are out of whack.

instead of rolling back, scrapping this "launch" and taking six months to re-engineer this pre-alpha mess, they've played a classic but awkward damage control move: brought back the original site creator Phil Askey to stem the tide of departures from the forums.  Yeah, sure, right, he just happened to show up, ROFL.  I don't buy it.

I know what a pre-alpha is. This site is not that. It works. You and I have been debating this for some time now and everything works. I am probably posting more than I usually do. They need no damage control because there is no damage. The first day they had a few hiccups but as any webdisigner, as the problems were discovered and people made it know, they fixed them and they were very minor problems, many of them preferences. What else do you want for free.

meanwhile substantive forum activity is down.  they'll run this titanic straight to the sea bottom at this rate.

I don't know if I believe this. Show me some statistics that prove this. And make sure they show previous years so we can see cycles of ups and downs that are seasonal. There is no wreck, the Titanic is still afloat, no icebergs ahead. It is smooth easy sailing. You just don't like change. Go sit in the life boat, stick your head in a bag of sand, hold on to a life preserver and enjoy the ride chicken little. The captain and crew are doing a great job. If you don't like the free ride, get off an ride on another boat... but wait there are no other boats better than this one.

But if you actually have a rely, please include in it, what is broken on this site, not your opinions or your preferences, things that do not work that would prove this to be a pre alpha site. Show me the crashes, show me error pages, show me things that don't work. Also when you make claims of down readership show me facts not some observation that prove this and that it is not a cycle that normally happens this time of year. Prove, your claims because you sound like a madman who is angry at a free website that has great information and allows us to debate about just about anything.

Bob Meyer Veteran Member • Posts: 5,375
Re: Look no further than this very thread.
1

Maybe people feel that "+1" posts add nothing to the discussion, and are a waste of space?

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I've stopped thinking in terms of "equivalent" focal lengths on m43. 25mm is what it is, and what it might be similar to on some other format doesn't matter to me any more. We need to learn what to expect from our current equipment, not keep mapping it to the old. No one refers to their 50mm FF lens as "equivalent to 80mm on MF."

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