First Time FF User - 5DM3 or D600?

Started Oct 1, 2012 | Discussions
rbarta Regular Member • Posts: 284
Re: First Time FF User - 5DM3 or D600?

KidRacer wrote:

All of you have been amazingly helpful! Thank you for taking the time to give me your thoughts and opinions.

I've decided to go with Canon for a handful of reasons that most of you have pointed out in the above postings. Very excited to start using it.

I will be picking up the 50mm 1.2L to start and then a zoom around Xmas. If anyone advises against this, please let me know by 11am EST. Haha. Thank you.

Don't forget to have fun!!!!

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thinkfat Senior Member • Posts: 1,185
Re: First Time FF User - 5DM3 or D600?

Royce - Into the Night Photography wrote:

The main reason one buys a full-frame sensor camera is for the higher dynamic range and lower signal-to-noise ratio over that of a smaller sensor.

... or the fact that you can use "longer" lenses for the same field of view, which results in better DoF control. Regarding dynamic range, at least at base ISO I'm not sure the Olympus E-M5 is behind the 5D2 I currently use. And that one has a 4/3rds size sensor!

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AllOtherNamesTaken Veteran Member • Posts: 3,563
Agree with bob

The 1.8 G primes from Nikon are exceptional , especially considering the price.

The 28/1.8G, 50 1.8G and 85 1.8G are all incredibly good, even wide open, especially for the price. There are A LOT of people using those lenses. The 1.4 versions are better, but not everyone finds them to be $1000 better. The 1.8 series suits the D600 very well, and are a great option for anyone wanting to keep costs down and still go fast primes over zooms.

My 50/1.8 G focuses nice and fast, and so far I have a 100% keeper rate with the lens, regardless of AF point. For $220 it's a pretty amazing little lens!

If you want the best wide angle, you go with the 14-24 or the 16-35VR - both are as good as it gets. I personally don't care about weight, but I understand it is a concern for some.

rrccad Forum Pro • Posts: 10,617
Re: First Time FF User - 5DM3 or D600?
1

Royce - Into the Night Photography wrote:

The main reason one buys a full-frame sensor camera is for the higher dynamic range and lower signal-to-noise ratio over that of a smaller sensor.

actually the main reason is for DOF control and subject isolation .. but who's quibbling over photographic details.

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Press Correspondent
Press Correspondent Veteran Member • Posts: 3,345
Re: Please elaborate on the "vastly" better AF

bobn2 wrote:

My logic is not a puzzle and not labyrinthine.

And how does it make you feel?

Sorry, just could not resist

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VivaLasVegas Senior Member • Posts: 1,210
Hey, Look what I found....

Look at how 5D3 is sealing all its buttons. All buttons are fully engulf by a rubber gasket not a superficial blue dental floss rubber. Blue dental floss VS red rubber gaskets, come on now.....

Now here is the D600 weather sealing. Must be a Thailand weather sealing, cheap!

Look at that PLASTIC lense mount riddle with holes to receive a superficial metal mount cap, weak!

ZAnton Contributing Member • Posts: 592
you forget about quality of Nikons lenses
1

Nikons G serie is MUCH better than Canon's counterparts.
14-24 is WAY sharper (and wider) than 16-35.

Canon's 50mm lenses are very old and to be honest close to crap.

My 50mm f1.4 can be used from f/2 but still has big problems with back/front focus.
50 f/1.8 was a disaster in focussing in low light.

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ZAnton Contributing Member • Posts: 592
D600
1

It is cheaper and better.

Also Nikon's fix lenses (G-serie) are much better than Canon's 50 and 85mm dinosaurs.
Nikon's 24-70 is not as good as Canon 24-70 mk2, but waaay cheaper.
(But personally I will buy Tamron 24-70 IS.)

KidRacer wrote:

Before freaking out on me Canon forum users, please understand that I am hoping to get opinions from both sides before spending a small fortune on a body and lenses.

To start, i only talk about the D600 cause I am not looking for 36MP. Its just way too much for me to handle and I am not the best at using photoshop.

I mostly shoot people and landscapes. Lenses I would buy are the 24-70mm and the 50mm. Will pick up an 85mm around the holidays.

Any first-hand opinions would be most appreciated. Thank you!

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showmetheprime
showmetheprime Regular Member • Posts: 193
Re: Interesting

I've read many reviews so far which express major disappointment that Canon's 24-70 II doesn't deliver on its price tag and is only just reaching resolution and sharpness of Nikon's five year old 24-70.... Start at Photozone.de and the search on the net. I personally wouldn't touch either lens because I think zooms are a massive compromise on quality, this latest lens is still no match for any top quality prime.

ZAnton wrote:
It is cheaper and better.

Also Nikon's fix lenses (G-serie) are much better than Canon's 50 and 85mm dinosaurs.
Nikon's 24-70 is not as good as Canon 24-70 mk2, but waaay cheaper.
(But personally I will buy Tamron 24-70 IS.)

KidRacer wrote:

Before freaking out on me Canon forum users, please understand that I am hoping to get opinions from both sides before spending a small fortune on a body and lenses.

To start, i only talk about the D600 cause I am not looking for 36MP. Its just way too much for me to handle and I am not the best at using photoshop.

I mostly shoot people and landscapes. Lenses I would buy are the 24-70mm and the 50mm. Will pick up an 85mm around the holidays.

Any first-hand opinions would be most appreciated. Thank you!

bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 53,559
Re: Hey, Look what I found....
7

VivaLasVegas wrote:

Look at that PLASTIC lense mount riddle with holes to receive a superficial metal mount cap, weak!

Glad you repeat this complete balls, which you last proffered on post 150 of a previous thread, thus avoiding being debunked.

That is not the lens mount (that is the word, 'lens', not 'lense', unless you're trying to be 'olde worlde', in which case it should be 'lense mounte'). That is the chassis, onto which the metal lens mount is screwed. this structure is exactly the same as the 5DIII which also has a plastic structure onto which a metal lens mount is screwed. What you're calling a 'superficial metal mount cap', is the lens mount, about 2mm thick of metal, just the same for the 5DII.

As for the sealing, its just the same. the fact the graphic artist decided top make it a different colour doesn't mean anything at all.
--
Bob

AllOtherNamesTaken Veteran Member • Posts: 3,563
Re: Interesting

showmetheprime wrote:

I've read many reviews so far which express major disappointment that Canon's 24-70 II doesn't deliver on its price tag and is only just reaching resolution and sharpness of Nikon's five year old 24-70.... Start at Photozone.de and the search on the net. I personally wouldn't touch either lens because I think zooms are a massive compromise on quality, this latest lens is still no match for any top quality prime.

I agree, that is news to me as well. It was my understanding that there was some general disappointment with the 24-70 II L as well, not to mention being 5 years late.

If it is better, I'd like to see the reputable sources showing me otherwise though, for interest sake. It's $2500 here in Canada vs $1499 for the Nikon, so I would expect it to blow the Nikon out of the water, but it doesn't seem to.

Lions Contributing Member • Posts: 526
Re: D600
1

ZAnton wrote:

It is cheaper and better.

Yes, it is cheaper because it is an "enthusiast's" FX body, where as the 5DIII is semi-pro. Better?, do you own both? Could you provide examples?

Also Nikon's fix lenses (G-serie) are much better than Canon's 50 and 85mm dinosaurs.
Nikon's 24-70 is not as good as Canon 24-70 mk2, but waaay cheaper.
(But personally I will buy Tamron 24-70 IS.)

Yes, the Tamron would be a good entry level lens to match the entry level FX D600.

KidRacer wrote:

Before freaking out on me Canon forum users, please understand that I am hoping to get opinions from both sides before spending a small fortune on a body and lenses.

To start, i only talk about the D600 cause I am not looking for 36MP. Its just way too much for me to handle and I am not the best at using photoshop.

I mostly shoot people and landscapes. Lenses I would buy are the 24-70mm and the 50mm. Will pick up an 85mm around the holidays.

Any first-hand opinions would be most appreciated. Thank you!

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AllOtherNamesTaken Veteran Member • Posts: 3,563
Re: D600

Lions wrote:

ZAnton wrote:

It is cheaper and better.

Yes, it is cheaper because it is an "enthusiast's" FX body, where as the 5DIII is semi-pro. Better?, do you own both? Could you provide examples?

I don't own both, but I've used both. The build quality is exactly the same (5DM3 still has lens mount screwed into a plastic chassis) and the metal on both cameras is not structural, FPS is basically the same (5.5 vs 6), AF is the same (better on D600 in low light and tracking based on my testing, but both very good, YMMV), sensor is much better on D600, particularly for low ISO. The 5DM3 bests it in flash sync (1/250 vs 1/200) and max shutter speed (1/4000 vs 1/8000). I can't really see any other objective areas where the 5DM3 comes out on top. People will argue one way or another about AF, metering, etc. but I think we all know they are very similar these days.

The D600 also has many things the 5DM3 does not, such as built in flash for controlling off camera strobes (or emergency flash pics), spot metering at every AF point (only 1-series has this in Canon), built in intervalometer, clean HDMI out for video, AF at F8, and support for APS-C lenses to help with any transitioning. Not all of those will matter to everyone, obviously, but to some they are deal breakers. There are in fact threads in this forum started by Canon users feeling ripped off when the D600 came out if you want to hear more of the other side of the story.

I do not want to start a "which is better" debate, as that varies from photographer to photographer based on individual needs, my only point is that the D600 is a lot more than an "entry level" camera, and much closer to a 5DM3 (better in some ways) than it is an entry level body. It is also closer to a D800 than it is an entry level body, and the DPreview staff have said the same. The 5DM3 is an amazing camera too, I have used one. The D600 is definitely a competitor to the 5DM3, and at $1500 less (in my Country). I fail to see what makes it "entry level", because it's price, build, and spec list all suggest otherwise.

VivaLasVegas Senior Member • Posts: 1,210
Re: Hey, Look what I found....

bobn2 wrote:

VivaLasVegas wrote:

Look at that PLASTIC lense mount riddle with holes to receive a superficial metal mount cap, weak!

Glad you repeat this complete balls, which you last proffered on post 150 of a previous thread, thus avoiding being debunked.

That is not the lens mount (that is the word, 'lens', not 'lense', unless you're trying to be 'olde worlde', in which case it should be 'lense mounte'). That is the chassis, onto which the metal lens mount is screwed. this structure is exactly the same as the 5DIII which also has a plastic structure onto which a metal lens mount is screwed. What you're calling a 'superficial metal mount cap', is the lens mount, about 2mm thick of metal, just the same for the 5DII.

There is a reason why pro bodies like, 1DX/D4/A99 use metal skin, the ultimate protection. Having said that, there is also a reason why entry level bodies like T4i/D3200/A57 use plastic skin, to maximize profit margin, that is it. Plastic is cheaper than metal just like labor in Thailand is CHEAPER than labor in Japan. Just like the World Trade Center, the exterior walls(dslr skin) are structural, it fights off shear forces and an accidental drop. Plastic feels and smells cheap.

D600 has a plastic skin + plastic innards that is assembled in Thailand. 5D3 has a metal skin + plastic innards that is assebled in Japan.

As for the sealing, its just the same. the fact the graphic artist decided top make it a different colour doesn't mean anything at all.

What do expect Nikon do, expose their pathic weather sealing short comings by providing a wire frame model rendering of a dental floss sealing without rubberize gaskets around buttons. Nikon did their best to hide this short coming by having a "graphic artist" paint superficial blue color dental floss string. Just remember Nikon DOES NOT provide rubberize gaskets around buttons.

Here again have a look

Here, look at those rubberize gaskets engulfing all the buttons in 5D3.

fotokeena Forum Member • Posts: 99
Re: First Time FF User - 5DM3 or D600?

KidRacer wrote:

Before freaking out on me Canon forum users, please understand that I am hoping to get opinions from both sides before spending a small fortune on a body and lenses.

To start, i only talk about the D600 cause I am not looking for 36MP. Its just way too much for me to handle and I am not the best at using photoshop.

I mostly shoot people and landscapes. Lenses I would buy are the 24-70mm and the 50mm. Will pick up an 85mm around the holidays.

Any first-hand opinions would be most appreciated. Thank you!

Either will do, choose the one you like better after trying both hands-on. Why let others choose your camera, you have to like it yourself, not others.

bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 53,559
Re: Hey, Look what I found....
2

VivaLasVegas wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

VivaLasVegas wrote:

Look at that PLASTIC lense mount riddle with holes to receive a superficial metal mount cap, weak!

Glad you repeat this complete balls, which you last proffered on post 150 of a previous thread, thus avoiding being debunked.

That is not the lens mount (that is the word, 'lens', not 'lense', unless you're trying to be 'olde worlde', in which case it should be 'lense mounte'). That is the chassis, onto which the metal lens mount is screwed. this structure is exactly the same as the 5DIII which also has a plastic structure onto which a metal lens mount is screwed. What you're calling a 'superficial metal mount cap', is the lens mount, about 2mm thick of metal, just the same for the 5DII.

There is a reason why pro bodies like, 1DX/D4/A99 use metal skin, the ultimate protection.Having said that, there is also a reason why entry level bodies like T4i/D3200/A57 use plastic skin, to maximize profit margin, that is it. Plastic is cheaper than metal just like labor in Thailand is CHEAPER than labor in Japan. Just like the World Trade Center, the exterior walls(dslr skin) are structural, it fights off shear forces and an accidental drop. Plastic feels and smells cheap.

In a Canon, the DSLR 'Skin' is not structural - it is just a skin. The lens mount is attached to the chassis at the front, the sensor is attached to the chassis at the back and all the components area attached to that chassis. You can see that in the Lens Rentals teardown (and any teardown of a Canon) the skin comes off first and the camera remains in one piece and functional - it really is just a skin. If you drop the camera and the lens hits the ground, what takes the shock loads is the chassis, not the skin. If the camera hits the ground then the skin will absorb some of the shock, before transferring it to the chassis. The skin is not structural. Plastic and metal behave differently in these conditions, and its hard to say for sure which is better. The move to metal skin for tom models (remember the EOS-1 had a plastic skin) is mainly about marketing, people perceive a metal skin to be better.

Coming back to the Nikons, the tope end ones have a different structure with a 'monocoque' metal chassis, where the chassis actually forms part of the skin. They then have a plastic front panel (all Nikons, including the D4 have a plastic front panel). The D600 and D7000 are like the Canons with a plastic chassis and a separate skin. The front panel is plastic like all Nikons.

D600 has a plastic skin + plastic innards that is assembled in Thailand. 5D3 has a metal skin + plastic innards that is assebled in Japan.

As for the sealing, its just the same. the fact the graphic artist decided top make it a different colour doesn't mean anything at all.

What do expect Nikon do, expose their pathic weather sealing short comings by providing a wire frame model rendering of a dental floss sealing without rubberize gaskets around buttons. Nikon did their best to hide this short coming by having a "graphic artist" paint superficial blue color dental floss string. Just remember Nikon DOES NOT provide rubberize gaskets around buttons.

Here again have a look

Here, look at those rubberize gaskets engulfing all the buttons in 5D3.

You are looking at an artists illustration. The fact that one uses yellow and the other red and one draws the lines a bit thicker means nothing in reality. Again, one would have to look at the real detail of how its done to come to any conclusion, and with sealing the devil is in the detail. I've designed enough sealed instrumentation to know that huge wodges of rubber does not guarantee a seal.

steras Senior Member • Posts: 1,047
Re: Hey, Look what I found....
1

VivaLasVegas wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

VivaLasVegas wrote:

Look at that PLASTIC lense mount riddle with holes to receive a superficial metal mount cap, weak!

Glad you repeat this complete balls, which you last proffered on post 150 of a previous thread, thus avoiding being debunked.

That is not the lens mount (that is the word, 'lens', not 'lense', unless you're trying to be 'olde worlde', in which case it should be 'lense mounte'). That is the chassis, onto which the metal lens mount is screwed. this structure is exactly the same as the 5DIII which also has a plastic structure onto which a metal lens mount is screwed. What you're calling a 'superficial metal mount cap', is the lens mount, about 2mm thick of metal, just the same for the 5DII.

There is a reason why pro bodies like, 1DX/D4/A99 use metal skin, the ultimate protection. Having said that, there is also a reason why entry level bodies like T4i/D3200/A57 use plastic skin, to maximize profit margin, that is it. Plastic is cheaper than metal just like labor in Thailand is CHEAPER than labor in Japan. Just like the World Trade Center, the exterior walls(dslr skin) are structural, it fights off shear forces and an accidental drop. Plastic feels and smells cheap.

D600 has a plastic skin + plastic innards that is assembled in Thailand. 5D3 has a metal skin + plastic innards that is assebled in Japan.

As for the sealing, its just the same. the fact the graphic artist decided top make it a different colour doesn't mean anything at all.

What do expect Nikon do, expose their pathic weather sealing short comings by providing a wire frame model rendering of a dental floss sealing without rubberize gaskets around buttons. Nikon did their best to hide this short coming by having a "graphic artist" paint superficial blue color dental floss string. Just remember Nikon DOES NOT provide rubberize gaskets around buttons.

You really enjoy being caught with your pantalones down Viva.

The image you keep referring to re. the weather sealing on the Nikon does indeed have gaskets around the buttons.

I do wonder when you are going to realise what an absolute fool you are making of yourself with all the nonsense you produce. (Since you are so insecure, I do not expect a reseponse from you)

D800-seal.jpg

Here again have a look

Here, look at those rubberize gaskets engulfing all the buttons in 5D3.


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steras Senior Member • Posts: 1,047
Viva, how do you explain this then?

VivaLasVegas wrote:

Look at how 5D3 is sealing all its buttons. All buttons are fully engulf by a rubber gasket not a superficial blue dental floss rubber. Blue dental floss VS red rubber gaskets, come on now.....

Now here is the D600 weather sealing. Must be a Thailand weather sealing, cheap!

Look at that PLASTIC lense mount riddle with holes to receive a superficial metal mount cap, weak!

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/50005544

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bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 53,559
I can explain it.
1

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/50005544

The totally sealed camera is a complete myth. That's one reason why Viva's posts are completely bogus. You cannot hermetically seal a camera - think what would happen when the temperature changed, all the air inside would expand or contract and the camera would ballon or shrink. Thus the camera must be designed to 'breath' - that is allow air in or out to cater for temperature changes. The problem is if this air is humid, and then the camera gets cold the water will condense out. What almost certainly happened here is not that water got past the seals, but that the air inside the camera was moist, the rain cooled the camera, the moisture condensed out and caused liquid water under the  displays.

Kabe Luna
Kabe Luna Veteran Member • Posts: 9,493
Re: For landscapes, the Nikon D600 is the better camera.

bobn2 wrote:

MayaTlab0 wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Press Correspondent wrote:

Specs are not equivalent at all. 5D3 has a vastly superior AF and LV, quiet electronic shutter, and a host of other different features.

What people forget is that the D600 has 'a host of other different features' which the 5DIII does not, such as:

  • quieter mechanical shutter

That one is wrong : the 5D III's silent mode remains quite substantially quieter than the D600's default shutter release (I'm not counting its quiet mode which isn't quieter at all, just more elongated, like other Nikons or the 1DX). It's true though that the D600 shows good progress from Nikon in that area.

I understand that the D600's mechanical shutter is quieter than the 5DIII's mechanical shutter. Of course the 5DIII's electronic shutter is quieter, and a real innovation, but if you need full speed, the D600 is going to be quieter.
--
Bob

Bob, what are you referring to when you speak of the 5DIII's "electronic" shutter. To my understanding (or perhaps lack thereof), only in Live View does the 5DIII use an electronic first curtain "shutter." In its silent mode, the shutter response and timings seem simply slowed down to match the somewhat more lethargic and quieter action of the Rebels. Am I missing something?

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