DAM software replacement for IDImager

Started Sep 25, 2012 | Discussions
fuego6
fuego6 Senior Member • Posts: 2,274
Re: DAM software replacement for IDImager

MisterBG wrote:

fuego6 wrote:

Zoner does NOT do anything with XMP... I checked this yesterday just for fun by writing out some keywords in Zoner Iie: People -> Family -> Jill - went to photo supreme and checked the IPTC and XMP - IPTC keywords had: Family, Jill, People (not exactly good).. and there is NO XMP data written out to dc:subject nor any other XMP schema. So - at the moment, I would say Zoner is out.

Just for fun again, I added an existing hierarchical keyword in Supreme to the image: Object->Ball->Red and sync'd the metadata. Supreme correctly shows: ball for the ITPC keyword and the dc:subject shows Object|Ball|Red (aOK) - the XMP scheme for idimager also shows the GUID and keywords so all looks good.

I then went back to Zoner and repulled in the keywords from the image... what I got was a single keyword: Red.. not cool.... so, zoner cannot read XMP either.. it is relying soley on the IPTC keywords. I also imported an image that had the hierarchy filed within the ITPC subject field... what I got was a single new keyword: Animals|Dog|Mutt - not good.

So.. until Zoner can handle XMP read/write and assign true hierarchy out of the catalog - its a non useful program for me. Having said that - it still is a very good image viewer/editor and non-hierarchical catalog program.

LR still wins ... the build in GPS is really good... still no clue as to why Idimager is taking the stand they are against adding it to the program. I'm all for using multiple software - but GPS is basic stuff these days and should be a feature included in it in my opinion.

I have now moved on to Lightroom, which I primarily wanted as a raw developer program.
However, Because of the way Lightroom manges it's image library, you cannot send an image from Zoner (or any other DAM) directly into LR.
All Lightroom images must be imported via it's own library, so I have been forced (somewhat reluctantly) to adopt the Lightroom library for my image management.

I'm still becoming accustomed to Lightroom, but I find your statement "Zoner does NOT do anything with XMP" a little puzzling, since all the XMP image data that I have written with Zoner seems to appear and display correctly in Lightzone. Are you sure that you applied the data to the images? I found it's quite easy to exit Zoner without having saved the XMP data, but I'm assuming it appears in Zoner itself.
Of course, now I'm using Lightzone I shall be using that to write all my XMP data in future.

-- hide signature --

>The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.

I assume you meant to say Lightroom instead of Lightzone?

Sorry - I meant to say hierarchical data from Zoner... yes - the standard xmp:dc:subject is filled out but just with straight keywords - even thought I chose a "hierarchical" one that I generated in zoner (ie: Subject->Flowers->Hostas).  Without the hierarchy - the program just falls a bit short.

MisterBG Veteran Member • Posts: 6,271
Re: DAM software replacement for IDImager

fuego6 wrote:

MisterBG wrote:

I have now moved on to Lightroom, which I primarily wanted as a raw developer program.
However, Because of the way Lightroom manges it's image library, you cannot send an image from Zoner (or any other DAM) directly into LR.
All Lightroom images must be imported via it's own library, so I have been forced (somewhat reluctantly) to adopt the Lightroom library for my image management.

I'm still becoming accustomed to Lightroom, but I find your statement "Zoner does NOT do anything with XMP" a little puzzling, since all the XMP image data that I have written with Zoner seems to appear and display correctly in Lightzone. Are you sure that you applied the data to the images? I found it's quite easy to exit Zoner without having saved the XMP data, but I'm assuming it appears in Zoner itself.
Of course, now I'm using Lightzone I shall be using that to write all my XMP data in future.

-- hide signature --

>The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.

I assume you meant to say Lightroom instead of Lightzone?

Sorry - I meant to say hierarchical data from Zoner... yes - the standard xmp:dc:subject is filled out but just with straight keywords - even thought I chose a "hierarchical" one that I generated in zoner (ie: Subject->Flowers->Hostas).  Without the hierarchy - the program just falls a bit short.

Sorry about the typo, yes I did mean to say Lightroom. Comes from being a long time Lightzone user.

I still don't understand your fixation with hierachical keywords. Any decent program can do a search based on as many or as few keywords that you care to enter. If I search for "red" I may find red cars and red flowers, but if I search for "red,flowers" then I get red flowers returned. I'm afraid I cannot see any reason for this hierachy that you seem to need, but I maybe I've missed your point?

-- hide signature --

>The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.

Stubb
Stubb Contributing Member • Posts: 518
Re: DAM software replacement for IDImager

MisterBG wrote:

I still don't understand your fixation with hierachical keywords. Any decent program can do a search based on as many or as few keywords that you care to enter. If I search for "red" I may find red cars and red flowers, but if I search for "red,flowers" then I get red flowers returned. I'm afraid I cannot see any reason for this hierachy that you seem to need, but I maybe I've missed your point?

The reason is that adding a leaf keyword automatically adds all the keywords above it.

Using an example from my hierarchy:

I'll add nature->animals->arthropods->insects->dragonflies->blue dasher->male

This picture will then show up when searching for any of the above terms even though I've only applied a single keyword.

—Andreas

-- hide signature --
 Stubb's gear list:Stubb's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DC-G9 Panasonic Leica 12-60mm F2.8-4.0 ASPH DxO Optics Pro Elite
fuego6
fuego6 Senior Member • Posts: 2,274
Re: DAM software replacement for IDImager

Stubb wrote:

MisterBG wrote:

I still don't understand your fixation with hierachical keywords. Any decent program can do a search based on as many or as few keywords that you care to enter. If I search for "red" I may find red cars and red flowers, but if I search for "red,flowers" then I get red flowers returned. I'm afraid I cannot see any reason for this hierachy that you seem to need, but I maybe I've missed your point?

The reason is that adding a leaf keyword automatically adds all the keywords above it.

Using an example from my hierarchy:

I'll add nature->animals->arthropods->insects->dragonflies->blue dasher->male

This picture will then show up when searching for any of the above terms even though I've only applied a single keyword.

—Andreas

-- hide signature --

Bingo!  I just wrote a huge response and of course this fab new forum software blew it all!

But - yes... it is good to maintain meaning for keywords.. such as: Objects->Structures->Bridge  and  Activities->Games->Cards->Bridge    and    Activities->Exercise->Yoga->Bridge

Also, software can certainly find "Bridge" - but could return hundreds of images that you don't want... by choosing a hierarchy - the exact keywords are returned.  Perhaps not too important for the amateur photographer or home snapper - but very handy for a pro or someone who submits to stock photography houses.  Not that I am in either of those cats - but I started doing it because it is easier to do it from the start and change to a flat structure later...

MisterBG Veteran Member • Posts: 6,271
Re: DAM software replacement for IDImager

fuego6 wrote:

Stubb wrote:

MisterBG wrote:

I still don't understand your fixation with hierachical keywords. Any decent program can do a search based on as many or as few keywords that you care to enter. If I search for "red" I may find red cars and red flowers, but if I search for "red,flowers" then I get red flowers returned. I'm afraid I cannot see any reason for this hierachy that you seem to need, but I maybe I've missed your point?

The reason is that adding a leaf keyword automatically adds all the keywords above it.

Using an example from my hierarchy:

I'll add nature->animals->arthropods->insects->dragonflies->blue dasher->male

This picture will then show up when searching for any of the above terms even though I've only applied a single keyword.

—Andreas

-- hide signature --

Bingo!  I just wrote a huge response and of course this fab new forum software blew it all!

But - yes... it is good to maintain meaning for keywords.. such as: Objects->Structures->Bridge  and  Activities->Games->Cards->Bridge    and    Activities->Exercise->Yoga->Bridge

Also, software can certainly find "Bridge" - but could return hundreds of images that you don't want... by choosing a hierarchy - the exact keywords are returned.  Perhaps not too important for the amateur photographer or home snapper - but very handy for a pro or someone who submits to stock photography houses.  Not that I am in either of those cats - but I started doing it because it is easier to do it from the start and change to a flat structure later...

OK, Thanks for that.
I now understand what you are trying to do.

Once again your needs appear to be different from mine.

From my point of view, the search facilities in Lightroom allow me to rapidly locate any image I'm looking for by entering multiple search words, provided I've tagged everything with the appropriate terms in the first place.
I don't find it any trouble to use multiple search words, the key is adding the right tags to each image to start with.

-- hide signature --

>The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.

fuego6
fuego6 Senior Member • Posts: 2,274
Re: DAM software replacement for IDImager

Cool.. it really only becomes an issue when you want to keep specific meaning to keywords.. as well as shortening up commonly used ones.. My friend Mike is different than my brother Mike.. if I just used Mike - I would get tons more hits than I want.. so I use: People->Family->Brothers->Mike   and  People->Friends->Mike  - this also allowed me to write the other keywords to the hierarchy automatically as well.

K-Murat Forum Member • Posts: 72
Re: DAM software replacement for IDImager

It's been interesting perusing this thread. Best I can tell, Lightroom is the only application that supports both hierarchical keywording and geotagging. Or did I miss something?

Daminion supports now both hierarchical keywording and geotagging. And Daminion unlike LR supports also hierarchical events, people, categories, collections, etc... while LR only limits you with hierarchical keywords only.

We (I am one of the Daminion's developers) added Geotagging support in the Daminion 1.0 RC1 version that is available for testing in our forum.

GEO Stamping w Daminion

• To stamp images with geo coordinates just select items and drag them to the Map.
• You can drop items onto an existing marker
• All markers are always visible, no matter how many files have been selected
• Search for a location
• Markers for the selected items are displayed in orange.
• The locations of existing markers can be changed using the mouse
• You can use your favorite map provider such as Google, Yahoo, Bing or Yandex
• Click on a marker to preview thumbnails of the items behind it
• Items that are located close to one another are grouped together for ease of visualization
• It’s possible to view all items assigned to a certain marker in the Thumbnail Browser

fuego6
fuego6 Senior Member • Posts: 2,274
Re: DAM software replacement for IDImager

K-Murat wrote:

It's been interesting perusing this thread. Best I can tell, Lightroom is the only application that supports both hierarchical keywording and geotagging. Or did I miss something?

Daminion supports now both hierarchical keywording and geotagging. And Daminion unlike LR supports also hierarchical events, people, categories, collections, etc... while LR only limits you with hierarchical keywords only.

We (I am one of the Daminion's developers) added Geotagging support in the Daminion 1.0 RC1 version that is available for testing in our forum.

GEO Stamping w Daminion

• To stamp images with geo coordinates just select items and drag them to the Map.
• You can drop items onto an existing marker
• All markers are always visible, no matter how many files have been selected
• Search for a location
• Markers for the selected items are displayed in orange.
• The locations of existing markers can be changed using the mouse
• You can use your favorite map provider such as Google, Yahoo, Bing or Yandex
• Click on a marker to preview thumbnails of the items behind it
• Items that are located close to one another are grouped together for ease of visualization
• It’s possible to view all items assigned to a certain marker in the Thumbnail Browser

Hey murat - thanks for the update - I've been following Daminion since the beginning and will download the latest test candidate to check out.

Can you tell me please how Daminion handles XMP?  Does it write out the IPTC data to the appropriate XMP blocks and read XMP blocks to build the hierarchical keywords for images that are imported?  How is this handled say if I am moving from Idimager?  Thx again!

PeterK Contributing Member • Posts: 921
Re: DAM software replacement for IDImager

I'm in the same boat, AND investing in a new PC - which I won't be able to install IDI on because it's no longer there. So within a week or so, IDI will drop off the earth for me, unless I'm missing something (or, maybe I saved that last IDIv5 install exe? - I'll have to take a look)

PeterK Contributing Member • Posts: 921
Re: DAM software replacement for IDImager

K-Murat,

I am in the same boat and looking for a IDI replacement. I took a look at Daaminion's web page today, but it looked like $199 for a single user. you mentioned the standalone is free for a single user. Can you clarify?

Also, my major need that LR can not handle is for versioning. After a large shoot of 300-1000 images, I DL the raw files, mirror them to a separate drive, convert them to DNG and then rate and edit the DNG's.  When I'm done, I'll look for all the zero rated files to delete, and I want to delete all the mirrored files as well. I have been accomplishing this with IDI until now. I looked into ACDSee, but it can not do this. Does Daaminion support versions?

Thanks

fuego6
fuego6 Senior Member • Posts: 2,274
Re: DAM software replacement for IDImager

PeterK wrote:

I'm in the same boat, AND investing in a new PC - which I won't be able to install IDI on because it's no longer there. So within a week or so, IDI will drop off the earth for me, unless I'm missing something (or, maybe I saved that last IDIv5 install exe? - I'll have to take a look)

You should be able to download Idi v5 from your control panel.. cp.idimager.com - your license file and a link to the latest version will be there for install when you get the new PC.  Enjoy!

BTW - been playing around with the lastest version of Daminion and really like how it has progressed and is coming along.  Would suggest you take a close look at it because I think it has a chance to be a good program.  Enjoy!

PeterK Contributing Member • Posts: 921
Re: DAM software replacement for IDImager

Thanks very much, but I thought I read Idi isn't windows 8 compatible. I'll have to look into that, unless you know.

fuego6
fuego6 Senior Member • Posts: 2,274
Re: DAM software replacement for IDImager
1

PeterK wrote:

Thanks very much, but I thought I read Idi isn't windows 8 compatible. I'll have to look into that, unless you know.

Hey Peter - although you millage may vary - the forum does report that Idi 5 is working under Win 8 - I would drop Hert a PM for sure to verify as he may know a few tricks if needed to get it to fully work.  Good luck!

PeterK Contributing Member • Posts: 921
Re: DAM software replacement for IDImager

Thanks!

t o m New Member • Posts: 4
Re: DAM software replacement for IDImager

Curious have people found solutions they are happy with?

Have the Daminion questions been answered?

(Not looking forward to organising a *lot* of photos that have never been organised - so would like to start as 'right' as possible.)

 t o m's gear list:t o m's gear list
Olympus PEN E-PL2 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX85
fuego6
fuego6 Senior Member • Posts: 2,274
Re: DAM software replacement for IDImager
2

t o m wrote:

Curious have people found solutions they are happy with?

Have the Daminion questions been answered?

(Not looking forward to organising a *lot* of photos that have never been organised - so would like to start as 'right' as possible.)

For the best in DAM software at the moment - we are still looking at Idimager (now know as Supreme), Daminion, ACDSee Pro and Lightroom.  A newer versions of iMatch is in closed beta and perhaps someday a catalog based version of Photo Mechanic will be released (its been "in development" for at least 4 years now).

Personally, I still think Idimager is the best of the bunch.. the new Supreme is top notch and version 2 is coming out in a few weeks that offers GPS panels which was sorely missing from the original version.

Not sure how iMatch NG will look when released - the teaser stuff I've seen look nice.. but until it is out of closed beta.. who knows!

I love the idea of Lightroom... all in one solution without the need to export updated images. but its DAM side of thing is sorely lacking... wish they would pay some attention to that in the next release.. but so far.. nothing!

Good luck!

t o m New Member • Posts: 4
Re: DAM software replacement for IDImager

^ Thanks!

 t o m's gear list:t o m's gear list
Olympus PEN E-PL2 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX85
PeterK Contributing Member • Posts: 921
Re: DAM software replacement for IDImager

I have found that LR offers all I need. One of my main worries in moving away from IDImager was the loss of versioning. When I thought about it, LR obviates the need for "versioning" as we used to know it - linking cr2, psd, jpeg, and tiff files created for various purposes, and even several different files within a format, again for various purposes (web, email, print, etc).

In LR, all of these files are automatically linked in the same folder. Most are just virtual copies of the original, and there is no need to keep tiff or jpg copies around. Any psd files created are folded into the LR folder and DB.

9 months of use has verified the above, and I've never missed IDI.

Keywording does all the rest for me, and LR searches/filters are light years faster (and more reliable) than in IDImager.

Add  the fact that LR will populate and mirror my web site (smugmug, but others are supported) is an amazing feature. I rarely have to use anything outside of LR now, although the photoshop link is getting smoother and easier all the time.

-- hide signature --

www.pkphoto.net

fuego6
fuego6 Senior Member • Posts: 2,274
Re: DAM software replacement for IDImager

I hear you Peter.. and do agree that the all-in-one nature of LR is its most appealing features... however, its keywording leaves something to be desired - especially for the non-event amateur family photographer.  Here's an example: I can take between 200-400 photos a day while on vacation.. these are photos all over the place and of many different things - family members, plants, flowers, bird, buildings, scenary, etc...   In Idimager, keywording was a pleasure - open a dedicated keyword panel, choose amongst favorites and away we go... in LR - it just seems.... forced.  The little keyword panel tucked in amongst all the other clutter, the difficulty in creating a new hierarchical keyword, the inabiliity to assign synonyms.

A major hole is the inability to assign geo locations to keywords (extra step!) - that is such a HUGE timesaver in Idimager... if I assign "HOME" to 300 photos - the geo location is auto assigned... same for vacation spots.

The speed has made major strides in Supreme.... what used to be slow is now super fast.

the only thing that keeps me in LR is the fact that all my edits/keywords are in one place.... truly, that is a huge time saver that off sets some of these other issues.

Hans de Zomers Regular Member • Posts: 230
Re: DAM software replacement for IDImager

fuego6 wrote:

Personally, I still think Idimager is the best of the bunch.. the new Supreme is top notch and version 2 is coming out in a few weeks that offers GPS panels which was sorely missing from the original version.

I agree that IDimager PhotoSupreme is still the leader of the pack. And I couldn't be happier with the major step forward that IDimager PhotoSupreme is when compared to its ancestor. Not only is it much easier to work with, it's also faster and rock solid. And the biggest bonus for me is that Photo Supreme works on my Vaio/Win8.1 laptop but also on my Mac computers.

I love the idea of Lightroom... all in one solution without the need to export updated images. but its DAM side of thing is sorely lacking... wish they would pay some attention to that in the next release.. but so far.. nothing!

Lightroom is what I use to develop my CR2 raw files and I love the quality of the RAW converter and the lens corrections, and the overall editing capabilities. As you mentioned, their DAM capabilities are lacking in many areas. That probably makes LR a good management solution for those with little DAM needs/requirements who already use LR as their editor.

Photographers primarily choose Lightroom for its (RAW) editing capabilities. That alone is enough to conclude that you shouldn't expect their DAM features to grow significantly. Now that Adobe is playing with its CC licenses I am looking for a replacement for LR and currently lurking at DXO or Capture1.

 Hans de Zomers's gear list:Hans de Zomers's gear list
Canon EOS Rebel T4i Sony Alpha NEX-3N
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads