Why insist on FF format?

Started Sep 22, 2012 | Discussions
illy
illy Forum Pro • Posts: 12,160
Re: I did .. answer

papillon_65 wrote:

illy wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

illy wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

SergeyGreen wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

I thought it was a simple question but it seems you're not capable of answering it. The correct answers are no, yes and yes :). Oh, and does the Samsung Galaxy have a 25mm to 300mm lens on it?

No, but it is always with me, I think this is what you meant, not? And it takes terrific pictures, and with miles of DoF from wide open. I think I did answer your question already.

Well not exactly but I guess it's as close I'll get to you admitting that a FF camera can't do everything a small camera can ;).

A FF camera can do everything a small camera can if you have it with you. If you don't have it with you (or don't have the lenses you need with you) of course it can't. I've never seen anyone deny that smaller size and weight is a big advantage in many situations.

I've never seen a FF camera with a 25-300mm lens that you can put in your pocket, unless you know of one. Sergey stated that a FF camera can do everything a smaller camera can, well it can't go in your pocket with a 25-300mm lens so he was clearly wrong and by stating that then he is denying the size advantage. Here's what he said:

"Everything you can do with compact you can do with FF. Many things you can do with FF you can not possibly touch with compact. That means one is (significantly) better than the other - when and if you need it. Does it answer your question?"

Now is that statement categorically true? Or would it be true to say there is something you can do with such a camera that you can't do with a FF camera? (i.e. put a camera with such a lens in your pocket and always have it with you?)

As Sergey says, the camera you're most likely to have with you is the one in your phone.

Many phones have rubbish cameras and again, I've never seen a phone with such a lens either. Any choice you make is a compromise and is not a "do-it-all" solution, even FF, though some seem to believe otherwise. If I wanted a camera that could do most things and I would be most likely to have it with me, it would be neither a phone or a FF camera. That's why camera's like the Panasonic LX's are so popular.

depends on the size of the pockets, i have a pair of trousers i can fit a D200 with a 100mm/2.8 lens on

The D200 isn't FF and I have a car I can drive through water but it doesn't mean it makes for a great submarine.

it's bigger than a D600, and the 100 mm is made for 35mm/FX sized sensors
--

Listen! Listen! Do you hear? The moon is weeping in a secret room! They tap at my window, with tiny poles!

Well crack on with your Wallace and Gromit trousers, or better still, why not wear a bell diving suit for the full effect.
--
Any problem on earth can be solved by a well aimed Pomegranate...
Tony
http://the-random-photographer.blogspot.com/

no need, the taclite pant is Dupont treated so is splash proof, and wicks away the sweat during hotter moments, great for travelling to hot countries.
--

Listen! Listen! Do you hear? The moon is weeping in a secret room! They tap at my window, with tiny poles!

 illy's gear list:illy's gear list
Nikon D200 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GF1 Nikon D5100 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 55-200mm f/4-5.6G VR Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G VR +4 more
papillon_65
papillon_65 Forum Pro • Posts: 27,030
Re: I did .. answer

illy wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

illy wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

SergeyGreen wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

I thought it was a simple question but it seems you're not capable of answering it. The correct answers are no, yes and yes :). Oh, and does the Samsung Galaxy have a 25mm to 300mm lens on it?

No, but it is always with me, I think this is what you meant, not? And it takes terrific pictures, and with miles of DoF from wide open. I think I did answer your question already.

Well not exactly but I guess it's as close I'll get to you admitting that a FF camera can't do everything a small camera can ;).

A FF camera can do everything a small camera can if you have it with you. If you don't have it with you (or don't have the lenses you need with you) of course it can't. I've never seen anyone deny that smaller size and weight is a big advantage in many situations.

I've never seen a FF camera with a 25-300mm lens that you can put in your pocket, unless you know of one. Sergey stated that a FF camera can do everything a smaller camera can, well it can't go in your pocket with a 25-300mm lens so he was clearly wrong and by stating that then he is denying the size advantage. Here's what he said:

"Everything you can do with compact you can do with FF. Many things you can do with FF you can not possibly touch with compact. That means one is (significantly) better than the other - when and if you need it. Does it answer your question?"

Now is that statement categorically true? Or would it be true to say there is something you can do with such a camera that you can't do with a FF camera? (i.e. put a camera with such a lens in your pocket and always have it with you?)

As Sergey says, the camera you're most likely to have with you is the one in your phone.

Many phones have rubbish cameras and again, I've never seen a phone with such a lens either. Any choice you make is a compromise and is not a "do-it-all" solution, even FF, though some seem to believe otherwise. If I wanted a camera that could do most things and I would be most likely to have it with me, it would be neither a phone or a FF camera. That's why camera's like the Panasonic LX's are so popular.

depends on the size of the pockets, i have a pair of trousers i can fit a D200 with a 100mm/2.8 lens on

The D200 isn't FF

yes, but
http://camerasize.com/compare/#194,378

Well I guess if you like wearing trousers designed by Wallace and Gromit you'll be fine then.
--
Any problem on earth can be solved by a well aimed Pomegranate...
Tony
http://the-random-photographer.blogspot.com/

5.11 taclite pants, the rear pockets are huge and can carry huge amounts
--

Listen! Listen! Do you hear? The moon is weeping in a secret room! They tap at my window, with tiny poles!

I'm old fashioned like that, I tend to think trying to carry 5lb of camera and lens in a pocket is not really practical. I know I'm not "down with the kids" but I prefer to wear my trousers around my waist and not around my ankles.
--
Any problem on earth can be solved by a well aimed Pomegranate...
Tony
http://the-random-photographer.blogspot.com/

 papillon_65's gear list:papillon_65's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix X100 Sigma DP1 Merrill Sigma DP2 Merrill Sigma DP3 Merrill Sony Cyber-shot DSC-HX50V +7 more
papillon_65
papillon_65 Forum Pro • Posts: 27,030
Re: I did .. answer

illy wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

illy wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

illy wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

SergeyGreen wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

I thought it was a simple question but it seems you're not capable of answering it. The correct answers are no, yes and yes :). Oh, and does the Samsung Galaxy have a 25mm to 300mm lens on it?

No, but it is always with me, I think this is what you meant, not? And it takes terrific pictures, and with miles of DoF from wide open. I think I did answer your question already.

Well not exactly but I guess it's as close I'll get to you admitting that a FF camera can't do everything a small camera can ;).

A FF camera can do everything a small camera can if you have it with you. If you don't have it with you (or don't have the lenses you need with you) of course it can't. I've never seen anyone deny that smaller size and weight is a big advantage in many situations.

I've never seen a FF camera with a 25-300mm lens that you can put in your pocket, unless you know of one. Sergey stated that a FF camera can do everything a smaller camera can, well it can't go in your pocket with a 25-300mm lens so he was clearly wrong and by stating that then he is denying the size advantage. Here's what he said:

"Everything you can do with compact you can do with FF. Many things you can do with FF you can not possibly touch with compact. That means one is (significantly) better than the other - when and if you need it. Does it answer your question?"

Now is that statement categorically true? Or would it be true to say there is something you can do with such a camera that you can't do with a FF camera? (i.e. put a camera with such a lens in your pocket and always have it with you?)

As Sergey says, the camera you're most likely to have with you is the one in your phone.

Many phones have rubbish cameras and again, I've never seen a phone with such a lens either. Any choice you make is a compromise and is not a "do-it-all" solution, even FF, though some seem to believe otherwise. If I wanted a camera that could do most things and I would be most likely to have it with me, it would be neither a phone or a FF camera. That's why camera's like the Panasonic LX's are so popular.

depends on the size of the pockets, i have a pair of trousers i can fit a D200 with a 100mm/2.8 lens on

The D200 isn't FF and I have a car I can drive through water but it doesn't mean it makes for a great submarine.

it's bigger than a D600, and the 100 mm is made for 35mm/FX sized sensors
--

Listen! Listen! Do you hear? The moon is weeping in a secret room! They tap at my window, with tiny poles!

Well crack on with your Wallace and Gromit trousers, or better still, why not wear a bell diving suit for the full effect.
--
Any problem on earth can be solved by a well aimed Pomegranate...
Tony
http://the-random-photographer.blogspot.com/

no need, the taclite pant is Dupont treated so is splash proof, and wicks away the sweat during hotter moments, great for travelling to hot countries.
--

Listen! Listen! Do you hear? The moon is weeping in a secret room! They tap at my window, with tiny poles!

Ideal for carrying around a 2lb camera and 3.3 lb lens in the back pocket then, come to think of it I see it all the time.
--
Any problem on earth can be solved by a well aimed Pomegranate...
Tony
http://the-random-photographer.blogspot.com/

 papillon_65's gear list:papillon_65's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix X100 Sigma DP1 Merrill Sigma DP2 Merrill Sigma DP3 Merrill Sony Cyber-shot DSC-HX50V +7 more
illy
illy Forum Pro • Posts: 12,160
Re: I did .. answer

papillon_65 wrote:

illy wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

illy wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

SergeyGreen wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

I thought it was a simple question but it seems you're not capable of answering it. The correct answers are no, yes and yes :). Oh, and does the Samsung Galaxy have a 25mm to 300mm lens on it?

No, but it is always with me, I think this is what you meant, not? And it takes terrific pictures, and with miles of DoF from wide open. I think I did answer your question already.

Well not exactly but I guess it's as close I'll get to you admitting that a FF camera can't do everything a small camera can ;).

A FF camera can do everything a small camera can if you have it with you. If you don't have it with you (or don't have the lenses you need with you) of course it can't. I've never seen anyone deny that smaller size and weight is a big advantage in many situations.

I've never seen a FF camera with a 25-300mm lens that you can put in your pocket, unless you know of one. Sergey stated that a FF camera can do everything a smaller camera can, well it can't go in your pocket with a 25-300mm lens so he was clearly wrong and by stating that then he is denying the size advantage. Here's what he said:

"Everything you can do with compact you can do with FF. Many things you can do with FF you can not possibly touch with compact. That means one is (significantly) better than the other - when and if you need it. Does it answer your question?"

Now is that statement categorically true? Or would it be true to say there is something you can do with such a camera that you can't do with a FF camera? (i.e. put a camera with such a lens in your pocket and always have it with you?)

As Sergey says, the camera you're most likely to have with you is the one in your phone.

Many phones have rubbish cameras and again, I've never seen a phone with such a lens either. Any choice you make is a compromise and is not a "do-it-all" solution, even FF, though some seem to believe otherwise. If I wanted a camera that could do most things and I would be most likely to have it with me, it would be neither a phone or a FF camera. That's why camera's like the Panasonic LX's are so popular.

depends on the size of the pockets, i have a pair of trousers i can fit a D200 with a 100mm/2.8 lens on

The D200 isn't FF

yes, but
http://camerasize.com/compare/#194,378

Well I guess if you like wearing trousers designed by Wallace and Gromit you'll be fine then.
--
Any problem on earth can be solved by a well aimed Pomegranate...
Tony
http://the-random-photographer.blogspot.com/

5.11 taclite pants, the rear pockets are huge and can carry huge amounts
--

Listen! Listen! Do you hear? The moon is weeping in a secret room! They tap at my window, with tiny poles!

I'm old fashioned like that, I tend to think trying to carry 5lb of camera and lens in a pocket is not really practical. I know I'm not "down with the kids" but I prefer to wear my trousers around my waist and not around my ankles.
--
Any problem on earth can be solved by a well aimed Pomegranate...
Tony
http://the-random-photographer.blogspot.com/

the body with a battery and lens only weighs 3.2 lbs, and 5.11 also do quality belts so your troosies don't fall down.......unless you want them too, and the belt i use is airport safe, so i can go through metal detectors and still keep my dignity
--

Listen! Listen! Do you hear? The moon is weeping in a secret room! They tap at my window, with tiny poles!

 illy's gear list:illy's gear list
Nikon D200 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GF1 Nikon D5100 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 55-200mm f/4-5.6G VR Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G VR +4 more
marike6 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,088
Re: Why insist on FF format?

OMG, does a day ever go by when m43 fans are not trying to rationalize their choice of gear with comparisons to larger formats?

The daily comparisons of m43 to FF are quite frankly delusional considering m43 isn't even as good IQ-wise, DOF control, or resolution as APS-C. m43 cameras can have a tough time matching the superb IQ of a camera like the Fuji X-Pro1, which makes the constant comparisons to FF seem even more misguided.

And to argue that APS-C will actually die off makes zero sense as APS-C bodies and lenses are just as small as m43 lenses, yet have better IQ and shallower DOF. If any camera format is going to die off, it will be the lesser one. But I actually think there is room for all three formats so such doom and gloom predictions are rather silly.

The other issue is that moving forward as resolution gets higher and higher, the m43 sensor begins to show it's weakness as there simply isn't as much real estate to add new pixels. With 16 mp, m43 seems to have reached the ceiling. Where m43 already feature densely packed pixels, adding more pixels in an attempt to reach NEX-7 type resolution (24 mp) or higher is going to mean that lenses will become diffraction limited even earlier (as it is we already see some lenses like the Olympus 12-50 decrease in quality straight from max aperture down to minimum. Larger sensors have more room to increase resolution without compromising quality (see Nikon D800).

IrishhAndy wrote:

My om-d is noisy at base iso. I have smoother compacts.

As far as D800 comparison, if you have used a D800, it is doubtful that you'd make such a David vs Goliath comparison. Ignoring DOF, a D800 at ISO 800 or even higher looks as clean as an OM-D at base ISO . And to IrishAndy's point about P&S, my Ricoh GRD III at ISO 64 is much cleaner than the OM-D at base ISO where it doesn't have the slightest bit of noise. A camera like the D7000 or Fuji X-Pro1 shows very little if any noise at base ISO. The same cannot be said for the EM-5.

Professionals use FF and Medium Format cameras as they have the best IQ, a vast selection of optics, and big, bright optical viewfinders. They are clearly the best tools for the job, but with prices coming down, even enthusiasts are choosing FF cameras for the ultimate in IQ and ergonomics. As far as m43 fans, until you recognize that any system has compromises and until you give the constant rationalizing and equivocating a rest, you'll never be truly happy with your gear.

 marike6's gear list:marike6's gear list
Nikon Coolpix P330 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH2 Nikon D800 Fujifilm X-E1 Panasonic Lumix G 20mm F1.7 ASPH +7 more
papillon_65
papillon_65 Forum Pro • Posts: 27,030
Re: I did .. answer

illy wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

illy wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

illy wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

SergeyGreen wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

I thought it was a simple question but it seems you're not capable of answering it. The correct answers are no, yes and yes :). Oh, and does the Samsung Galaxy have a 25mm to 300mm lens on it?

No, but it is always with me, I think this is what you meant, not? And it takes terrific pictures, and with miles of DoF from wide open. I think I did answer your question already.

Well not exactly but I guess it's as close I'll get to you admitting that a FF camera can't do everything a small camera can ;).

A FF camera can do everything a small camera can if you have it with you. If you don't have it with you (or don't have the lenses you need with you) of course it can't. I've never seen anyone deny that smaller size and weight is a big advantage in many situations.

I've never seen a FF camera with a 25-300mm lens that you can put in your pocket, unless you know of one. Sergey stated that a FF camera can do everything a smaller camera can, well it can't go in your pocket with a 25-300mm lens so he was clearly wrong and by stating that then he is denying the size advantage. Here's what he said:

"Everything you can do with compact you can do with FF. Many things you can do with FF you can not possibly touch with compact. That means one is (significantly) better than the other - when and if you need it. Does it answer your question?"

Now is that statement categorically true? Or would it be true to say there is something you can do with such a camera that you can't do with a FF camera? (i.e. put a camera with such a lens in your pocket and always have it with you?)

As Sergey says, the camera you're most likely to have with you is the one in your phone.

Many phones have rubbish cameras and again, I've never seen a phone with such a lens either. Any choice you make is a compromise and is not a "do-it-all" solution, even FF, though some seem to believe otherwise. If I wanted a camera that could do most things and I would be most likely to have it with me, it would be neither a phone or a FF camera. That's why camera's like the Panasonic LX's are so popular.

depends on the size of the pockets, i have a pair of trousers i can fit a D200 with a 100mm/2.8 lens on

The D200 isn't FF

yes, but
http://camerasize.com/compare/#194,378

Well I guess if you like wearing trousers designed by Wallace and Gromit you'll be fine then.
--
Any problem on earth can be solved by a well aimed Pomegranate...
Tony
http://the-random-photographer.blogspot.com/

5.11 taclite pants, the rear pockets are huge and can carry huge amounts
--

Listen! Listen! Do you hear? The moon is weeping in a secret room! They tap at my window, with tiny poles!

I'm old fashioned like that, I tend to think trying to carry 5lb of camera and lens in a pocket is not really practical. I know I'm not "down with the kids" but I prefer to wear my trousers around my waist and not around my ankles.
--
Any problem on earth can be solved by a well aimed Pomegranate...
Tony
http://the-random-photographer.blogspot.com/

the body with a battery and lens only weighs 3.2 lbs, and 5.11 also do quality belts so your troosies don't fall down.......unless you want them too, and the belt i use is airport safe, so i can go through metal detectors and still keep my dignity
--

Listen! Listen! Do you hear? The moon is weeping in a secret room! They tap at my window, with tiny poles!

Must be a different lens to the one I looked at. Anyway, I congratulate you on cornering a niche market, the trouser cam ( or should that be cami trousers? ). I anticipate a world wide rush from eager full framers who are desperate to "trouser" their rigs. I would hurry up and patent it if I were you before someone steals this ingenious idea.
--
Any problem on earth can be solved by a well aimed Pomegranate...
Tony
http://the-random-photographer.blogspot.com/

 papillon_65's gear list:papillon_65's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix X100 Sigma DP1 Merrill Sigma DP2 Merrill Sigma DP3 Merrill Sony Cyber-shot DSC-HX50V +7 more
bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 60,885
Re: I did .. answer

illy wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

illy wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

illy wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

SergeyGreen wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

I thought it was a simple question but it seems you're not capable of answering it. The correct answers are no, yes and yes :). Oh, and does the Samsung Galaxy have a 25mm to 300mm lens on it?

No, but it is always with me, I think this is what you meant, not? And it takes terrific pictures, and with miles of DoF from wide open. I think I did answer your question already.

Well not exactly but I guess it's as close I'll get to you admitting that a FF camera can't do everything a small camera can ;).

A FF camera can do everything a small camera can if you have it with you. If you don't have it with you (or don't have the lenses you need with you) of course it can't. I've never seen anyone deny that smaller size and weight is a big advantage in many situations.

I've never seen a FF camera with a 25-300mm lens that you can put in your pocket, unless you know of one. Sergey stated that a FF camera can do everything a smaller camera can, well it can't go in your pocket with a 25-300mm lens so he was clearly wrong and by stating that then he is denying the size advantage. Here's what he said:

"Everything you can do with compact you can do with FF. Many things you can do with FF you can not possibly touch with compact. That means one is (significantly) better than the other - when and if you need it. Does it answer your question?"

Now is that statement categorically true? Or would it be true to say there is something you can do with such a camera that you can't do with a FF camera? (i.e. put a camera with such a lens in your pocket and always have it with you?)

As Sergey says, the camera you're most likely to have with you is the one in your phone.

Many phones have rubbish cameras and again, I've never seen a phone with such a lens either. Any choice you make is a compromise and is not a "do-it-all" solution, even FF, though some seem to believe otherwise. If I wanted a camera that could do most things and I would be most likely to have it with me, it would be neither a phone or a FF camera. That's why camera's like the Panasonic LX's are so popular.

depends on the size of the pockets, i have a pair of trousers i can fit a D200 with a 100mm/2.8 lens on

The D200 isn't FF

yes, but
http://camerasize.com/compare/#194,378

Well I guess if you like wearing trousers designed by Wallace and Gromit you'll be fine then.
--
Any problem on earth can be solved by a well aimed Pomegranate...
Tony
http://the-random-photographer.blogspot.com/

5.11 taclite pants, the rear pockets are huge and can carry huge amounts
--

Listen! Listen! Do you hear? The moon is weeping in a secret room! They tap at my window, with tiny poles!

I'm old fashioned like that, I tend to think trying to carry 5lb of camera and lens in a pocket is not really practical. I know I'm not "down with the kids" but I prefer to wear my trousers around my waist and not around my ankles.
--
Any problem on earth can be solved by a well aimed Pomegranate...
Tony
http://the-random-photographer.blogspot.com/

the body with a battery and lens only weighs 3.2 lbs, and 5.11 also do quality belts so your troosies don't fall down.......unless you want them too, and the belt i use is airport safe, so i can go through metal detectors and still keep my dignity

which reminds me of the time I was going to a fancy dress party as Adam. I found a costume suppliers who did a fig leaf, but it wasn't large enough to cover my dignity. They didn't have anything larger so all they could suggest is that I throw my dignity over my shoulder and go as a petrol pump.
--
Bob

illy
illy Forum Pro • Posts: 12,160
Re: I did .. answer

papillon_65 wrote:

illy wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

illy wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

illy wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

SergeyGreen wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

I thought it was a simple question but it seems you're not capable of answering it. The correct answers are no, yes and yes :). Oh, and does the Samsung Galaxy have a 25mm to 300mm lens on it?

No, but it is always with me, I think this is what you meant, not? And it takes terrific pictures, and with miles of DoF from wide open. I think I did answer your question already.

Well not exactly but I guess it's as close I'll get to you admitting that a FF camera can't do everything a small camera can ;).

A FF camera can do everything a small camera can if you have it with you. If you don't have it with you (or don't have the lenses you need with you) of course it can't. I've never seen anyone deny that smaller size and weight is a big advantage in many situations.

I've never seen a FF camera with a 25-300mm lens that you can put in your pocket, unless you know of one. Sergey stated that a FF camera can do everything a smaller camera can, well it can't go in your pocket with a 25-300mm lens so he was clearly wrong and by stating that then he is denying the size advantage. Here's what he said:

"Everything you can do with compact you can do with FF. Many things you can do with FF you can not possibly touch with compact. That means one is (significantly) better than the other - when and if you need it. Does it answer your question?"

Now is that statement categorically true? Or would it be true to say there is something you can do with such a camera that you can't do with a FF camera? (i.e. put a camera with such a lens in your pocket and always have it with you?)

As Sergey says, the camera you're most likely to have with you is the one in your phone.

Many phones have rubbish cameras and again, I've never seen a phone with such a lens either. Any choice you make is a compromise and is not a "do-it-all" solution, even FF, though some seem to believe otherwise. If I wanted a camera that could do most things and I would be most likely to have it with me, it would be neither a phone or a FF camera. That's why camera's like the Panasonic LX's are so popular.

depends on the size of the pockets, i have a pair of trousers i can fit a D200 with a 100mm/2.8 lens on

The D200 isn't FF

yes, but
http://camerasize.com/compare/#194,378

Well I guess if you like wearing trousers designed by Wallace and Gromit you'll be fine then.
--
Any problem on earth can be solved by a well aimed Pomegranate...
Tony
http://the-random-photographer.blogspot.com/

5.11 taclite pants, the rear pockets are huge and can carry huge amounts
--

Listen! Listen! Do you hear? The moon is weeping in a secret room! They tap at my window, with tiny poles!

I'm old fashioned like that, I tend to think trying to carry 5lb of camera and lens in a pocket is not really practical. I know I'm not "down with the kids" but I prefer to wear my trousers around my waist and not around my ankles.
--
Any problem on earth can be solved by a well aimed Pomegranate...
Tony
http://the-random-photographer.blogspot.com/

the body with a battery and lens only weighs 3.2 lbs, and 5.11 also do quality belts so your troosies don't fall down.......unless you want them too, and the belt i use is airport safe, so i can go through metal detectors and still keep my dignity
--

Listen! Listen! Do you hear? The moon is weeping in a secret room! They tap at my window, with tiny poles!

Must be a different lens to the one I looked at. Anyway, I congratulate you on cornering a niche market, the trouser cam ( or should that be cami trousers? ). I anticipate a world wide rush from eager full framers who are desperate to "trouser" their rigs. I would hurry up and patent it if I were you before someone steals this ingenious idea.
--
Any problem on earth can be solved by a well aimed Pomegranate...
Tony
http://the-random-photographer.blogspot.com/

unless i'm boarding an aircraft, driving or carry more than 2 lenses or one of the big guns, i always carry my camera in my hand, Thailand last year was a D80 50mm/1.8 and a 18-70mm, next year GF1 14mm/45mm, i only use the pockets if i need to use both hands
--

Listen! Listen! Do you hear? The moon is weeping in a secret room! They tap at my window, with tiny poles!

 illy's gear list:illy's gear list
Nikon D200 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GF1 Nikon D5100 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 55-200mm f/4-5.6G VR Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G VR +4 more
illy
illy Forum Pro • Posts: 12,160
Re: I did .. answer

bobn2 wrote:

illy wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

illy wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

illy wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

SergeyGreen wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

I thought it was a simple question but it seems you're not capable of answering it. The correct answers are no, yes and yes :). Oh, and does the Samsung Galaxy have a 25mm to 300mm lens on it?

No, but it is always with me, I think this is what you meant, not? And it takes terrific pictures, and with miles of DoF from wide open. I think I did answer your question already.

Well not exactly but I guess it's as close I'll get to you admitting that a FF camera can't do everything a small camera can ;).

A FF camera can do everything a small camera can if you have it with you. If you don't have it with you (or don't have the lenses you need with you) of course it can't. I've never seen anyone deny that smaller size and weight is a big advantage in many situations.

I've never seen a FF camera with a 25-300mm lens that you can put in your pocket, unless you know of one. Sergey stated that a FF camera can do everything a smaller camera can, well it can't go in your pocket with a 25-300mm lens so he was clearly wrong and by stating that then he is denying the size advantage. Here's what he said:

"Everything you can do with compact you can do with FF. Many things you can do with FF you can not possibly touch with compact. That means one is (significantly) better than the other - when and if you need it. Does it answer your question?"

Now is that statement categorically true? Or would it be true to say there is something you can do with such a camera that you can't do with a FF camera? (i.e. put a camera with such a lens in your pocket and always have it with you?)

As Sergey says, the camera you're most likely to have with you is the one in your phone.

Many phones have rubbish cameras and again, I've never seen a phone with such a lens either. Any choice you make is a compromise and is not a "do-it-all" solution, even FF, though some seem to believe otherwise. If I wanted a camera that could do most things and I would be most likely to have it with me, it would be neither a phone or a FF camera. That's why camera's like the Panasonic LX's are so popular.

depends on the size of the pockets, i have a pair of trousers i can fit a D200 with a 100mm/2.8 lens on

The D200 isn't FF

yes, but
http://camerasize.com/compare/#194,378

Well I guess if you like wearing trousers designed by Wallace and Gromit you'll be fine then.
--
Any problem on earth can be solved by a well aimed Pomegranate...
Tony
http://the-random-photographer.blogspot.com/

5.11 taclite pants, the rear pockets are huge and can carry huge amounts
--

Listen! Listen! Do you hear? The moon is weeping in a secret room! They tap at my window, with tiny poles!

I'm old fashioned like that, I tend to think trying to carry 5lb of camera and lens in a pocket is not really practical. I know I'm not "down with the kids" but I prefer to wear my trousers around my waist and not around my ankles.
--
Any problem on earth can be solved by a well aimed Pomegranate...
Tony
http://the-random-photographer.blogspot.com/

the body with a battery and lens only weighs 3.2 lbs, and 5.11 also do quality belts so your troosies don't fall down.......unless you want them too, and the belt i use is airport safe, so i can go through metal detectors and still keep my dignity

which reminds me of the time I was going to a fancy dress party as Adam. I found a costume suppliers who did a fig leaf, but it wasn't large enough to cover my dignity. They didn't have anything larger so all they could suggest is that I throw my dignity over my shoulder and go as a petrol pump.
--
Bob

i went to a fancy dress party once dressed as an emotion, i walked in stark b'llock naked with a pear on the end of my todger, when asked what i had come dressed as i said....."i'm fk'ing despair"....unfortunately my mate had his todger in a bowl of Crème anglaise, because he was fk'ing disgusted
--

Listen! Listen! Do you hear? The moon is weeping in a secret room! They tap at my window, with tiny poles!

 illy's gear list:illy's gear list
Nikon D200 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GF1 Nikon D5100 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 55-200mm f/4-5.6G VR Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G VR +4 more
papillon_65
papillon_65 Forum Pro • Posts: 27,030
Re: I did .. answer

illy wrote:

unless i'm boarding an aircraft, driving or carry more than 2 lenses or one of the big guns, i always carry my camera in my hand, Thailand last year was a D80 50mm/1.8 and a 18-70mm, next year GF1 14mm/45mm, i only use the pockets if i need to use both hands
--

Listen! Listen! Do you hear? The moon is weeping in a secret room! They tap at my window, with tiny poles!

Excellent idea, I always think it's a great to let the locals know I'm an affluent westerner flouting my wealth, cuts to the chase a lot quicker.
--
Any problem on earth can be solved by a well aimed Pomegranate...
Tony
http://the-random-photographer.blogspot.com/

 papillon_65's gear list:papillon_65's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix X100 Sigma DP1 Merrill Sigma DP2 Merrill Sigma DP3 Merrill Sony Cyber-shot DSC-HX50V +7 more
bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 60,885
Re: I did .. answer

illy wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

illy wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

illy wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

illy wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

SergeyGreen wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

I thought it was a simple question but it seems you're not capable of answering it. The correct answers are no, yes and yes :). Oh, and does the Samsung Galaxy have a 25mm to 300mm lens on it?

No, but it is always with me, I think this is what you meant, not? And it takes terrific pictures, and with miles of DoF from wide open. I think I did answer your question already.

Well not exactly but I guess it's as close I'll get to you admitting that a FF camera can't do everything a small camera can ;).

A FF camera can do everything a small camera can if you have it with you. If you don't have it with you (or don't have the lenses you need with you) of course it can't. I've never seen anyone deny that smaller size and weight is a big advantage in many situations.

I've never seen a FF camera with a 25-300mm lens that you can put in your pocket, unless you know of one. Sergey stated that a FF camera can do everything a smaller camera can, well it can't go in your pocket with a 25-300mm lens so he was clearly wrong and by stating that then he is denying the size advantage. Here's what he said:

"Everything you can do with compact you can do with FF. Many things you can do with FF you can not possibly touch with compact. That means one is (significantly) better than the other - when and if you need it. Does it answer your question?"

Now is that statement categorically true? Or would it be true to say there is something you can do with such a camera that you can't do with a FF camera? (i.e. put a camera with such a lens in your pocket and always have it with you?)

As Sergey says, the camera you're most likely to have with you is the one in your phone.

Many phones have rubbish cameras and again, I've never seen a phone with such a lens either. Any choice you make is a compromise and is not a "do-it-all" solution, even FF, though some seem to believe otherwise. If I wanted a camera that could do most things and I would be most likely to have it with me, it would be neither a phone or a FF camera. That's why camera's like the Panasonic LX's are so popular.

depends on the size of the pockets, i have a pair of trousers i can fit a D200 with a 100mm/2.8 lens on

The D200 isn't FF

yes, but
http://camerasize.com/compare/#194,378

Well I guess if you like wearing trousers designed by Wallace and Gromit you'll be fine then.
--
Any problem on earth can be solved by a well aimed Pomegranate...
Tony
http://the-random-photographer.blogspot.com/

5.11 taclite pants, the rear pockets are huge and can carry huge amounts
--

Listen! Listen! Do you hear? The moon is weeping in a secret room! They tap at my window, with tiny poles!

I'm old fashioned like that, I tend to think trying to carry 5lb of camera and lens in a pocket is not really practical. I know I'm not "down with the kids" but I prefer to wear my trousers around my waist and not around my ankles.
--
Any problem on earth can be solved by a well aimed Pomegranate...
Tony
http://the-random-photographer.blogspot.com/

the body with a battery and lens only weighs 3.2 lbs, and 5.11 also do quality belts so your troosies don't fall down.......unless you want them too, and the belt i use is airport safe, so i can go through metal detectors and still keep my dignity

which reminds me of the time I was going to a fancy dress party as Adam. I found a costume suppliers who did a fig leaf, but it wasn't large enough to cover my dignity. They didn't have anything larger so all they could suggest is that I throw my dignity over my shoulder and go as a petrol pump.
--
Bob

i went to a fancy dress party once dressed as an emotion, i walked in stark b'llock naked with a pear on the end of my todger, when asked what i had come dressed as i said....."i'm fk'ing despair"....unfortunately my mate had his todger in a bowl of Crème anglaise, because he was fk'ing disgusted

I think I was there, I remember that! You might have seen me, I was the caber-tosser without a kilt.
--
Bob

illy
illy Forum Pro • Posts: 12,160
Re: I did .. answer

papillon_65 wrote:

illy wrote:

unless i'm boarding an aircraft, driving or carry more than 2 lenses or one of the big guns, i always carry my camera in my hand, Thailand last year was a D80 50mm/1.8 and a 18-70mm, next year GF1 14mm/45mm, i only use the pockets if i need to use both hands
--

Listen! Listen! Do you hear? The moon is weeping in a secret room! They tap at my window, with tiny poles!

Excellent idea, I always think it's a great to let the locals know I'm an affluent westerner flouting my wealth, cuts to the chase a lot quicker.
--
Any problem on earth can be solved by a well aimed Pomegranate...
Tony
http://the-random-photographer.blogspot.com/

never had a problem, even in the poorest of areas, even when i'm flouting my obvious financial superiority over them
--

Listen! Listen! Do you hear? The moon is weeping in a secret room! They tap at my window, with tiny poles!

 illy's gear list:illy's gear list
Nikon D200 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GF1 Nikon D5100 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 55-200mm f/4-5.6G VR Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G VR +4 more
illy
illy Forum Pro • Posts: 12,160
Re: I did .. answer

bobn2 wrote:

I think I was there, I remember that! You might have seen me, I was the caber-tosser without a kilt.
--
Bob

did you have a dirty great big hairy sporran?
--

Listen! Listen! Do you hear? The moon is weeping in a secret room! They tap at my window, with tiny poles!

 illy's gear list:illy's gear list
Nikon D200 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GF1 Nikon D5100 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 55-200mm f/4-5.6G VR Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G VR +4 more
papillon_65
papillon_65 Forum Pro • Posts: 27,030
Re: I did .. answer

illy wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

illy wrote:

unless i'm boarding an aircraft, driving or carry more than 2 lenses or one of the big guns, i always carry my camera in my hand, Thailand last year was a D80 50mm/1.8 and a 18-70mm, next year GF1 14mm/45mm, i only use the pockets if i need to use both hands
--

Listen! Listen! Do you hear? The moon is weeping in a secret room! They tap at my window, with tiny poles!

Excellent idea, I always think it's a great to let the locals know I'm an affluent westerner flouting my wealth, cuts to the chase a lot quicker.
--
Any problem on earth can be solved by a well aimed Pomegranate...
Tony
http://the-random-photographer.blogspot.com/

never had a problem, even in the poorest of areas, even when i'm flouting my obvious financial superiority over them

You can't beat a bit of complacency now and again, especially when you are in foreign climes. I had a friend once, he'd never been run over by a car, guess what?

-- hide signature --

Listen! Listen! Do you hear? The moon is weeping in a secret room! They tap at my window, with tiny poles!

-- hide signature --

Any problem on earth can be solved by a well aimed Pomegranate...
Tony
http://the-random-photographer.blogspot.com/

 papillon_65's gear list:papillon_65's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix X100 Sigma DP1 Merrill Sigma DP2 Merrill Sigma DP3 Merrill Sony Cyber-shot DSC-HX50V +7 more
bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 60,885
Re: Why insist on FF format?

marike6 wrote:

OMG, does a day ever go by when m43 fans are not trying to rationalize their choice of gear with comparisons to larger formats?

The problem is the persistence of Olympus' original marketing, when they declared Four Thirds to be the 'Full Frame' of the digital age, and many people have bought into the system because they believed what Olympus said. To be fair to Olympus, it was a good concept, in many ways designed around the idea of 'equivalence' - that is, if you set out to take the same photo, if you can take it, it doesn't intrinsically matter what size the sensor is, the result will be the same, given that digital enlargement is lossless. The problem really is a bit of a lack of vision as to the range of photos people might want to take. In particular, shallow DOF is a look many like, and FT as the system developed cannot go where FF goes, and also people seem to want to take pictures in low light. While FT has achieved its original objective, and easily surpasses 135 film in that respect, it hasn't and will never surpass 135 digital.

However it is a perfectly fine system, and so long as your range of photos fits within it, a very good choice. It's just people want to say Olympus was completely right. They weren't, just mostly right.
--
Bob

illy
illy Forum Pro • Posts: 12,160
Re: I did .. answer

papillon_65 wrote:

illy wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

illy wrote:

unless i'm boarding an aircraft, driving or carry more than 2 lenses or one of the big guns, i always carry my camera in my hand, Thailand last year was a D80 50mm/1.8 and a 18-70mm, next year GF1 14mm/45mm, i only use the pockets if i need to use both hands
--

Listen! Listen! Do you hear? The moon is weeping in a secret room! They tap at my window, with tiny poles!

Excellent idea, I always think it's a great to let the locals know I'm an affluent westerner flouting my wealth, cuts to the chase a lot quicker.
--
Any problem on earth can be solved by a well aimed Pomegranate...
Tony
http://the-random-photographer.blogspot.com/

never had a problem, even in the poorest of areas, even when i'm flouting my obvious financial superiority over them

You can't beat a bit of complacency now and again, especially when you are in foreign climes. I had a friend once, he'd never been run over by a car, guess what?

he had his camera stolen?

if you're ever in Bangers(BKK) get a taxi and ask "by suan rot fei khap" he should either take you to a gem scam(great fun) or, take you to a park that used to be a golf course, on a Sunday it's usually teaming with photographers and all the kit you can imagine under the sun.......and lots of lovely girls a models, i guess a guy with an older body is just not worth it with richer pickings around
--

Listen! Listen! Do you hear? The moon is weeping in a secret room! They tap at my window, with tiny poles!

 illy's gear list:illy's gear list
Nikon D200 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GF1 Nikon D5100 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 55-200mm f/4-5.6G VR Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G VR +4 more
illy
illy Forum Pro • Posts: 12,160
Re: Why insist on FF format?

bobn2 wrote:

marike6 wrote:

OMG, does a day ever go by when m43 fans are not trying to rationalize their choice of gear with comparisons to larger formats?

The problem is the persistence of Olympus' original marketing, when they declared Four Thirds to be the 'Full Frame' of the digital age, and many people have bought into the system because they believed what Olympus said. To be fair to Olympus, it was a good concept, in many ways designed around the idea of 'equivalence' - that is, if you set out to take the same photo, if you can take it, it doesn't intrinsically matter what size the sensor is, the result will be the same, given that digital enlargement is lossless. The problem really is a bit of a lack of vision as to the range of photos people might want to take. In particular, shallow DOF is a look many like, and FT as the system developed cannot go where FF goes, and also people seem to want to take pictures in low light. While FT has achieved its original objective, and easily surpasses 135 film in that respect, it hasn't and will never surpass 135 digital.

However it is a perfectly fine system, and so long as your range of photos fits within it, a very good choice. It's just people want to say Olympus was completely right. They weren't, just mostly right.
--
Bob

i get tired of being told smaller is better, great if that suits the individual, i respect that, but i also expect my choices to be respected, there is no right or wrong.
--

Listen! Listen! Do you hear? The moon is weeping in a secret room! They tap at my window, with tiny poles!

 illy's gear list:illy's gear list
Nikon D200 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GF1 Nikon D5100 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 55-200mm f/4-5.6G VR Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G VR +4 more
papillon_65
papillon_65 Forum Pro • Posts: 27,030
Re: I did .. answer

illy wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

illy wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

illy wrote:

unless i'm boarding an aircraft, driving or carry more than 2 lenses or one of the big guns, i always carry my camera in my hand, Thailand last year was a D80 50mm/1.8 and a 18-70mm, next year GF1 14mm/45mm, i only use the pockets if i need to use both hands
--

Listen! Listen! Do you hear? The moon is weeping in a secret room! They tap at my window, with tiny poles!

Excellent idea, I always think it's a great to let the locals know I'm an affluent westerner flouting my wealth, cuts to the chase a lot quicker.
--
Any problem on earth can be solved by a well aimed Pomegranate...
Tony
http://the-random-photographer.blogspot.com/

never had a problem, even in the poorest of areas, even when i'm flouting my obvious financial superiority over them

You can't beat a bit of complacency now and again, especially when you are in foreign climes. I had a friend once, he'd never been run over by a car, guess what?

he had his camera stolen?

if you're ever in Bangers(BKK) get a taxi and ask "by suan rot fei khap" he should either take you to a gem scam(great fun) or, take you to a park that used to be a golf course, on a Sunday it's usually teaming with photographers and all the kit you can imagine under the sun.......and lots of lovely girls a models, i guess a guy with an older body is just not worth it with richer pickings around
--

Listen! Listen! Do you hear? The moon is weeping in a secret room! They tap at my window, with tiny poles!

Been to Bangkok and spent plenty of time in Malaysia (probably even safer) but I wouldn't flaunt my cameras anywhere, just a rule of thumb I've used everywhere I've been.
--
Any problem on earth can be solved by a well aimed Pomegranate...
Tony
http://the-random-photographer.blogspot.com/

 papillon_65's gear list:papillon_65's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix X100 Sigma DP1 Merrill Sigma DP2 Merrill Sigma DP3 Merrill Sony Cyber-shot DSC-HX50V +7 more
bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 60,885
Re: I did .. answer

illy wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

I think I was there, I remember that! You might have seen me, I was the caber-tosser without a kilt.

did you have a dirty great big hairy sporran?

So, you did see me!
--
Bob

bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 60,885
Re: Why insist on FF format?

illy wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

marike6 wrote:

OMG, does a day ever go by when m43 fans are not trying to rationalize their choice of gear with comparisons to larger formats?

The problem is the persistence of Olympus' original marketing, when they declared Four Thirds to be the 'Full Frame' of the digital age, and many people have bought into the system because they believed what Olympus said. To be fair to Olympus, it was a good concept, in many ways designed around the idea of 'equivalence' - that is, if you set out to take the same photo, if you can take it, it doesn't intrinsically matter what size the sensor is, the result will be the same, given that digital enlargement is lossless. The problem really is a bit of a lack of vision as to the range of photos people might want to take. In particular, shallow DOF is a look many like, and FT as the system developed cannot go where FF goes, and also people seem to want to take pictures in low light. While FT has achieved its original objective, and easily surpasses 135 film in that respect, it hasn't and will never surpass 135 digital.

However it is a perfectly fine system, and so long as your range of photos fits within it, a very good choice. It's just people want to say Olympus was completely right. They weren't, just mostly right.
--
Bob

i get tired of being told smaller is better, great if that suits the individual, i respect that, but i also expect my choices to be respected, there is no right or wrong.

Precisely. Your money, buy what suits you best.
--
Bob

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