raw vs jpeg for noise control

Started Sep 21, 2012 | Discussions
darwin36
darwin36 Junior Member • Posts: 47
raw vs jpeg for noise control

Hi all, I'm shooting with the 7d and like to shoot action/birds as fast as possible. And of course this adds noise. Are raw images easier to clean up then jpeg? I'm using LR4 and quite new to raw imaging. In fact my raw pictures sometimes don't look as good as my jpegs (but i'm getting better at it). Any advice would be great, thanks Darin

 darwin36's gear list:darwin36's gear list
Canon EOS 5D Mark III Sony Alpha a7R III Canon EF 14mm f/2.8L II USM Canon EF 50mm f/1.2L USM Canon EF 100mm f/2.8L Macro IS USM +6 more
Canon EOS 7D
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TDR1 Contributing Member • Posts: 540
Re: raw vs jpeg for noise control

When you shoot JPG, the camera is applying it's own noise reduction and sharpening processing which may result in the loss of more detail than you are happy with and once the detail has gone, you can't really get it back.

When you process the raw files you effectively bypass the cameras image processing functions and take the data straight from the sensor. This gives you much more flexibility to process the image to your taste and depending on the software and your processing skills this can result in cleaner images with more detail retention.

In terms of how easy it is to process the raw files, it takes longer, requires more skill so not really easier but you can get better results.

-- hide signature --
ronzie Senior Member • Posts: 1,288
Re: raw vs jpeg for noise control

Use RAW. Install the Canon DPP RAW processor that came on your EOS Solutions CD with the camera. Then go to the Canon product page, software tab, input your operating system, and get the DPP free update many versions improved.

Select the RAW image from the thumbnail. On the menu bar under View check Tool Palette. Select RAW. Adjust tonality, color temp, etc. If you adjust sharpening be gentle and do not use unsharp mask here.In the NR/ALO tab click noise reduction and set the sliders for chroma and luminence best noise reduction as viewed in the magnified preview (you can slide the cursor to different image parts. On the LENS tab you can tune out color blur and aberration especially handy for birds in flight or birds in general if you will later crop your image to extend reach.

When satisfied Save the RAW file to save the embedded metadata instructions (sensor pixels do not change, just instructions). Next export using File/Convert and Save) choosing the .tif format in 16 or 8 bit color channel gradation resolution for further processing in LR and select 600 ppi to allow for later cropping. Your "recipe" of metadata instructions will be applied to the export pixels. Don't use .jpg export as you are going to further process in LR.

The difference between processing RAW in LR or other Adobe product using the Adobe Camera RAW, or DNG conversion, is that in DPP the initial settings are imported from the camera. In the Adobe products for RAW processing Adobe uses its own initial profiles. Input the DPP exported lossless tif file into LR, PS, or PSE for further adjustments. It is in these you can apply Unsharp Masking after you crop and/or resize including resampling as the final; steps before printing or just saving the final image version. Another reason for using DPP as it doers not limit features based on the editing application as Adobe RAW does.

Of interest in the latest DPP versions in the LENS tab is that Canon makes available within that certain lens profile presets for download and installation into DPP. Since DPP recognizes the Canon lens used in the image if you have downloaded that lens profile it will apply that to your image as a starting point for optical corrections.

The DPP processing can go faster than describing the procedure.
--
Ron Ginsberg
Minneapolis, MN
Land of 10,000 Puddles

Mark Salvetti Contributing Member • Posts: 584
Re: raw vs jpeg for noise control

Read this:
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1143454

Long thread, but some good information within.

Mark

harry cannoli
harry cannoli Veteran Member • Posts: 5,772
Easy..

Learn your way around RAW processing. It's the only way to go.

Regards
Rich
--
http://www.iceninephotography.com

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darwin36
OP darwin36 Junior Member • Posts: 47
Re: raw vs jpeg for noise control

Thanks this sounds helpful. I hate the thought of another editing program sence I'm starting to learn LR4 . But I'm absolutely going to try using ddp, I've already got the new version Installed. You suggested the good work flow and I hope it doesn't slow me down even more. One good thing is that it will force me to discard all the junk right from the get go and work on only the good ones. Thanks again.

 darwin36's gear list:darwin36's gear list
Canon EOS 5D Mark III Sony Alpha a7R III Canon EF 14mm f/2.8L II USM Canon EF 50mm f/1.2L USM Canon EF 100mm f/2.8L Macro IS USM +6 more
anand53
anand53 Contributing Member • Posts: 641
Re: raw vs jpeg for noise control

Ronzie, I took a print of this response. I have downloaded the presets to my principal lenses.

Do you suggest that I set the "Digital Lens Optimizer" -- On? Thank you in advance.

ronzie wrote:

Use RAW. Install the Canon DPP RAW processor that came on your EOS Solutions CD with the camera. Then go to the Canon product page, software tab, input your operating system, and get the DPP free update many versions improved.

Select the RAW image from the thumbnail. On the menu bar under View check Tool Palette. Select RAW. Adjust tonality, color temp, etc. If you adjust sharpening be gentle and do not use unsharp mask here.In the NR/ALO tab click noise reduction and set the sliders for chroma and luminence best noise reduction as viewed in the magnified preview (you can slide the cursor to different image parts. On the LENS tab you can tune out color blur and aberration especially handy for birds in flight or birds in general if you will later crop your image to extend reach.

When satisfied Save the RAW file to save the embedded metadata instructions (sensor pixels do not change, just instructions). Next export using File/Convert and Save) choosing the .tif format in 16 or 8 bit color channel gradation resolution for further processing in LR and select 600 ppi to allow for later cropping. Your "recipe" of metadata instructions will be applied to the export pixels. Don't use .jpg export as you are going to further process in LR.

The difference between processing RAW in LR or other Adobe product using the Adobe Camera RAW, or DNG conversion, is that in DPP the initial settings are imported from the camera. In the Adobe products for RAW processing Adobe uses its own initial profiles. Input the DPP exported lossless tif file into LR, PS, or PSE for further adjustments. It is in these you can apply Unsharp Masking after you crop and/or resize including resampling as the final; steps before printing or just saving the final image version. Another reason for using DPP as it doers not limit features based on the editing application as Adobe RAW does.

Of interest in the latest DPP versions in the LENS tab is that Canon makes available within that certain lens profile presets for download and installation into DPP. Since DPP recognizes the Canon lens used in the image if you have downloaded that lens profile it will apply that to your image as a starting point for optical corrections.

The DPP processing can go faster than describing the procedure.
--
Ron Ginsberg
Minneapolis, MN
Land of 10,000 Puddles

 anand53's gear list:anand53's gear list
Canon EOS 70D Canon EOS 7D Mark II Canon EF-S 15-85mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM Canon EF 50mm f/2.5 Macro Canon EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS USM +4 more
ronzie Senior Member • Posts: 1,288
Re: raw vs jpeg for noise control

I did not see a setting for Digital Optimizer = On or Off. Are you talking about the LENS tab? If your lens is listed in the LENS tab, this is Lens Data = YES then click the tune button and wait until the process finishes. In the preview window drag the cross to an edge of something in focus. The profile should eliminate automatically or very close chromatic aberration and distortion. If you wish you can use the sections below to fine tune CA, distortion, and color blur. In the upper section I have not used the distance setting nor the slider below it. I have to check the help files. This might have to do with setting it because the lens reports focal length but not camera to subject distance.

When all of the edges look OK in the magnifier section (the crosshairs you dragged) and it looks OK in the medium window for distortion correction click OK and it will process the full RAW image.

If lens data = NO then you can do this manually anyway. It is just that there is no starting point for this unrecognized lens.
--
Ron Ginsberg
Minneapolis, MN
Land of 10,000 Puddles

katman68 Regular Member • Posts: 487
Re: raw vs jpeg for noise control

This might have to do with setting it because the lens reports focal length but not camera to subject distance.

Not true. When I put image files over in Iphoto to view it DOES show this distance in meters. Not sure about jpegs, but the RAW files do.

Mark

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