Canon Executive explains why 6D has only one X point

Absolutic wrote:

Mike Owen/Canon: It's a variety of reasons, really. I mean, yes, there is the cost side of things, but what we've tried to do with the autofocus system on the 6D is to actually improve low-light performance. It goes down to EV -3. So when emphasizing low-light performance, we've always had to make elements of the AF system larger, which limits our ability to put in more cross-type points.

DE: So it's a conscious design decision. You really wanted to emphasize low light.

MO: Yes, absolutely. It was a decision that we felt that this type of camera in this particular user group, auto focus performance is not 100% critical.

I must be in this group. Focus is not critical but when most of my focusing is done at EV-3, then it is critical. How many of you shoot this way that this camera is aimed at?

But in all seriousness, I am trying to figure out who this camera is aimed at? People who shoot Sport, landscape, weddings in the dark? Maybe it is for shooting the stars and heavens. But in mormal light, AF performance is not critical? LOL

I'm certainly no expert on the subject but my guess would be that the lack of cross sensors had everything to do with money $$ and little to do with physical dementions but as I said I'm no expert on the subject.

Seems a reasonable explanation but I think the line

we felt that this type of camera in this particular user group, auto focus performance is not 100% critical

is a little concerning. So is this saying that as well as fewer points, the focus is less accurate than say, 5Diii or 1Dx (I think we'd already guessed that) but by how much?

I'm also intrigued by the type of photographer who would find low light capability more important than accurate focus. Perhaps Canon have produced the ultimate Instamatic - great for party snaps which can immediately be pasted on FaceBook

Cheers,

Colin
--
Colin K. Work
http://www.ckwphoto.com

I, as many others, was waiting for FF body with a new decent AF. The AF was the only reason i did not want to buy MKII. Take MKII and give it a decent AF system. Simple. Now, instead of fixing the issue, Canon offers a techno gadget with wifi and gps and tells everybody that it is too expensive to have a decent AF for this price. Yeah, right. This BS could work if there was no competition on the market. I'm mad.

Sounds perfect for me: I often shoot weddings in the dark. If center-point focus works at EV -3, then you can bet it will work in normal light.

Why not wait until the camera is on the market and the autofocus is tested by photographers before bashing this camera? Instead, the bashing begins as soon as the specs come out?

It seems that everyone on this forum is an autofocus engineer and understands low-light autofocus better than the people at Canon who spend years working on this. On top of that, everyone here knows exactly what the market demands and how every camera should be priced.

Richard wrote:

But in all seriousness, I am trying to figure out who this camera is aimed at? People who shoot Sport, landscape, weddings in the dark? Maybe it is for shooting the stars and heavens. But in mormal light, AF performance is not critical? LOL

Already done! It's the 5D III.

Strannik2011 wrote:

Take MKII and give it a decent AF system. Simple. Now, instead of fixing the issue, ...

You can focus in very low light; you just can't focus at f8 at any light level. I don't get that...

Absolutic wrote:

imaging-resource just published the interview with the guy

http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2012/09/20/qa-with-canons-mike-owen-behind-the-scenes-in-developing-the-6D-and-whats

Dave Etchells/Imaging Resource: I guess we might as well start out with the 6D. Obviously, that's the big news. There's been some discussion online about the 6D having a smaller number of AF points than previous Canon DSLRs and, in particular, the single cross-type sensor in the middle. Is there a downside to offering more cross-type points or is it a cost issue? Is it a matter of product differentiation among your line?

Mike Owen/Canon: It's a variety of reasons, really. I mean, yes, there is the cost side of things, but what we've tried to do with the autofocus system on the 6D is to actually improve low-light performance. It goes down to EV -3. So when emphasizing low-light performance, we've always had to make elements of the AF system larger, which limits our ability to put in more cross-type points.

DE: So it's a conscious design decision. You really wanted to emphasize low light.

MO: Yes, absolutely. It was a decision that we felt that this type of camera in this particular user group, auto focus performance is not 100% critical. But low-light performance for autofocus is important. And it's just about that trade off.

I guess it makes sense .. however I would love to see the size of the major defocus sensor that prevents the hunting .. it's usually the defocus sensor that take up the massive amount of room, if they have to be bigger to collect more light / determine contrast .. i guess i could see this. Combine that with the fact that I believe canon high precision center point's are usually now dual sensors staggered for a higher degree of precision - so you are talking 8 sensors in total .. and each one collecting 4 times the light of the 5D Mark II and twice as much light as the 5D3 sensors.. meh.

I have never been one for AF assist lights, they are obtrusive by any stretch of imagination - and depending on what you are shooting .. inadequate or just simply not practical. the ST-E2 was my favourite to use for such a thing .. and even that really was impractical at times.

this is actually an interesting element .. finally a camera that has a AF that matches the sensor ISO capablity .. it seems we care about cameras that can take pictures in bat caves for some reason, but never really question the AF's ability to lock on at that light level.

it should be curious to see how well this camera locks on .. there's some initial reports that the AF is extremely good at locking on in near dark conditions.

JoeDavid wrote:

You can focus in very low light; you just can't focus at f8 at any light level. I don't get that...

I would not think 6D users, entry level 35mm, would have lenses that have a maximum aperture of f/8. This would be an f/8 mirror lens (old and Canon probably doesn't have any EF mount type), or an f/4 lens with a 2x teleconverter lens on. Again something that entry level users are unlikely to use. What percentage of SLR users (non-pros) use teleconverters or even own them? Probably a very small percentage. If your aim is wildlife with long lenses and teleconverters you probably should be getting a 5D3, a 1D X, or find a 1D4.

How many people shot weddings with the 5d series and Nikons that did not have EV-3, no one knows who this camera is aimed at because Nikons D600 is aimed at everyone in the mid entry FF camera, The D600 cannot really be called entry level because of its high end features where the 6d has features that are less than the 60d and the 650d.

zlatko wrote:

Sounds perfect for me: I often shoot weddings in the dark. If center-point focus works at EV -3, then you can bet it will work in normal light.

Why not wait until the camera is on the market and the autofocus is tested by photographers before bashing this camera? Instead, the bashing begins as soon as the specs come out?

Probably because Nikon will focus in the center in low light (yes this has been tested) and has better sensors for the other areas. That is why people are upset i would think.

It seems that everyone on this forum is an autofocus engineer

No, we have seen what canon has done in the past with the 5d and 5d2, they were crippled and did not focus as good as the nikon especially when trying to use sensors other than the center, Canon seems to have continued down this path again, disappointing.

and understands low-light autofocus better than the people at Canon who spend years working on this.

I am sure he is good at his job and no one questions his competence, but he was also told to cripple this unit so it won't compete with canons higher offerenings.

On top of that, everyone here knows exactly what the market demands and how every camera should be priced.

No, they just know what they themselves want and what Nikon has offered at their price and they are disappointed.

Richard wrote:

But in all seriousness, I am trying to figure out who this camera is aimed at? People who shoot Sport, landscape, weddings in the dark? Maybe it is for shooting the stars and heavens. But in mormal light, AF performance is not critical? LOL

Absolutic wrote:

So I guess he is saying to make the ELEMENTS OF AF SYSTEM LARGER FOR BETTER LOW LIFE, THEY COULD ONLY FIT 1 Xpoint.... hmmmmm

That is not what he said. He said cost is part of the reason. Besides, Canon is well known for crippling features to keep a lower price model from eating into the sale of more expensive models. In fact, all manufaturers do similar things to encourage consumers to spend more for more expensive models.