In case you didn't see RX1 mirrorless

Started Sep 9, 2012 | Discussions
pxchoi Regular Member • Posts: 431
Hope for M Mount?

I think this is fantastic news regardless of the price. I see this as progress.

It would be great to see a pro level rangefinder with an M-Mount.

Maybe something like the Zeiss Ikon but with a digital sensor...

Until then... I'm pretty satisfied with my OMD.

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Amateur Sony Shooter Veteran Member • Posts: 5,433
$2799 before optional viewfinder?

That's th price quoted by SAR. Way too rich for me.

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Timothy S Broadley
Timothy S Broadley Senior Member • Posts: 2,298
Re: In case you didn't see RX1 mirrorless

If you are into street photography, this may be the camera for you

The only other camera are the SIGMA Merrill and the ultra leica. Both of these are in the $1500-2000 range and are APS-C I think

Tim

Wellington100 Forum Pro • Posts: 11,673
For sony its as much about the sensors as the cameras

Sony are showing the rest of the camera makers that they should be building larger sensor compacts using Sony sensors. They are trying to shift the paradigm here in order to sell more of their high end sensors.

The competition can't fail to notice how many of the very expensive RX100 Sony has been selling on Amazon compared to cheaper alternatives with smaller sensors. Imagine if the RX1 outsells the D800. Sony are putting the whole market under pressure with these cameras. I would never be in the market for a D800 but this is pretty tempting. Its all the high IQ and low light camera I could possibly need for the next 10 years. My little Fuji F300 does well enough for my mundane everyday needs.

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toughluck Veteran Member • Posts: 3,076
Re: Where is the mirror if it's not mirrorless? [nt]

Baxter Bad wrote:

I guess you're being serious?

Not particularly, no.

We don't call a Canon Elph, for example, a mirrorless camera even though it has no mirror. It's understood that part of the definition of "mirrorless" includes interchangeable lenses, unless you have another definition I'm not aware of.

This is precisely why I abhor the term 'mirrorless'. I really prefer Compact System [Digital] Camera or Interchangeable Lens Compact [Digital Camera].

Mirrorless implies there is something missing which would otherwise be there. However, some companies (like Fujifilm) started from scratch on the CSC front and it's illogical to call their cameras mirrorless when they never had mirror-full cameras on the market (barring Nikon-based ones, obviously).

Assuming progress continues, in a few years mirrorless will hopefully fade into disuse as it becomes the dominant system camera form factor. Although I won't hold my breath for it -- just like the name SLR didn't fade away as TLRs pretty much disappeared from the market.

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denislaska
denislaska New Member • Posts: 17
Re: In case you didn't see RX1 mirrorless

Looks cool!

Cost too Much :0(

Baxter Bad
Baxter Bad Regular Member • Posts: 158
Re: Where is the mirror if it's not mirrorless? [nt]

toughluck wrote:

Baxter Bad wrote:

I guess you're being serious?

Not particularly, no.

We don't call a Canon Elph, for example, a mirrorless camera even though it has no mirror. It's understood that part of the definition of "mirrorless" includes interchangeable lenses, unless you have another definition I'm not aware of.

This is precisely why I abhor the term 'mirrorless'. I really prefer Compact System [Digital] Camera or Interchangeable Lens Compact [Digital Camera].

Mirrorless implies there is something missing which would otherwise be there. However, some companies (like Fujifilm) started from scratch on the CSC front and it's illogical to call their cameras mirrorless when they never had mirror-full cameras on the market (barring Nikon-based ones, obviously).

Assuming progress continues, in a few years mirrorless will hopefully fade into disuse as it becomes the dominant system camera form factor. Although I won't hold my breath for it -- just like the name SLR didn't fade away as TLRs pretty much disappeared from the market.

You're right, but to understand each other when we're talking about cameras, we have to agree on our terminology. Being technically correct doesn't do any good if everyone misunderstands you, that's all I'm saying.

And yes, I agree that the term mirrorless is probably an iterim thing that will be replaced in a few years by something more meaningful. But right now I'm just hoping the RX1 won't actually cost $2,700...

winedarksea Senior Member • Posts: 1,654
Re: In case you didn't see RX1 mirrorless

cllcanada wrote:

Great Hoax...
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Absolutic
Absolutic Veteran Member • Posts: 5,394
Re: $2799 before optional viewfinder?

Y'all say, it's too expensive. If they first pictures come out amazing, everyone will quickly forget about $2800, sell some of your other gear, and pick one up. I ate $650 RX100 price couple months ago, and just hoping that the pictures from RX1 do not look that great. Because if they are, I will be very very weak..

Amateur Sony Shooter wrote:

That's th price quoted by SAR. Way too rich for me.

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Absolutic
Absolutic Veteran Member • Posts: 5,394
Re: In case you didn't see RX1 mirrorless

that depends on the type of AF and how quick AF will be.

Timothy S Broadley wrote:

If you are into street photography, this may be the camera for you

The only other camera are the SIGMA Merrill and the ultra leica. Both of these are in the $1500-2000 range and are APS-C I think

Tim

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mrtaufik Forum Member • Posts: 58
Re: For sony its as much about the sensors as the cameras

Well said! Couldn't agree more with you. Sony should show something different to open new market.

Wellington100 wrote:

Sony are showing the rest of the camera makers that they should be building larger sensor compacts using Sony sensors. They are trying to shift the paradigm here in order to sell more of their high end sensors.

The competition can't fail to notice how many of the very expensive RX100 Sony has been selling on Amazon compared to cheaper alternatives with smaller sensors. Imagine if the RX1 outsells the D800. Sony are putting the whole market under pressure with these cameras. I would never be in the market for a D800 but this is pretty tempting. Its all the high IQ and low light camera I could possibly need for the next 10 years. My little Fuji F300 does well enough for my mundane everyday needs.

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The Skipper Contributing Member • Posts: 872
This has potential

I had been asking for a > 1/1.7" sensor pocket camera with zoom & built-in flash. Lots of people argued that it was impossible, and Sony comes out with the RX100, exactly what I wanted.

I was also asking for a full-frame, fast fixed lens, pocketable camera like the Minox 35GT. Lots of people argued that it was impossible, forgetting that the Minox was a full-frame camera, with lots of room where the left and right spools are for today's electronics.

Come on Sony, prove me right.

And I agree, after seeing the Canon mirrorless, I have also come to the conclusion that Canon has become a stale company incapable of thinking outside the box.

OP Robert Garcia NYC Senior Member • Posts: 2,087
Re: For sony its as much about the sensors as the cameras

That makes so much sense, thank you. Just like porn stars advertise their good/services on videos to make money on the road, I get it now. : )

mrtaufik wrote:

Well said! Couldn't agree more with you. Sony should show something different to open new market.

Wellington100 wrote:

Sony are showing the rest of the camera makers that they should be building larger sensor compacts using Sony sensors. They are trying to shift the paradigm here in order to sell more of their high end sensors.

The competition can't fail to notice how many of the very expensive RX100 Sony has been selling on Amazon compared to cheaper alternatives with smaller sensors. Imagine if the RX1 outsells the D800. Sony are putting the whole market under pressure with these cameras. I would never be in the market for a D800 but this is pretty tempting. Its all the high IQ and low light camera I could possibly need for the next 10 years. My little Fuji F300 does well enough for my mundane everyday needs.

pricklypear Regular Member • Posts: 113
Re: This has potential

The Skipper wrote:

I was also asking for a full-frame, fast fixed lens, pocketable camera like the Minox 35GT. Lots of people argued that it was impossible, forgetting that the Minox was a full-frame camera, with lots of room where the left and right spools are for today's electronics.

"Impossible" and, if it were, "no one will buy it." Looks like it is possible and I, for one, will buy it.

Come on Sony, prove me right.

Stephen McDonald
Stephen McDonald Forum Pro • Posts: 13,530
What Will Actually Be Sold

The RX1-F will have a full-frame MOS sensor with 22-MP. It will come with mounting threads for a lens adaptor tube on the housing and a new, high-grade 2.2X telextender will be issued with it. The actual price for the basic camera, which will have a 24mm to 140mm fixed Zeiss lens, will be $1,200. The adaptor will cost $40. and the telex will be $250 (could be used for many other cameras).

If you want more effective zoom, the Smart Zoom 11-MP mode will give about 210mm and the 5.5-MP mode, 280mm. With the 2.2X telex, this would be 616mm. Or, you could crop it later without using Smart Zoom, for much of the same effect. With this full-frame, high-quality sensor, you could even use the 5.5-MP SZ mode, plus the telex and also crop it, to get the equivalent of 1,232mm, with very decent results.

With a twist of the wrist, the telex and adaptor comes off and it's again a pocket camera (larger pocket). It will have the best versatility and quality through a wide range for close and distant subjects, that no D-SLR could match at anything close to its size or price. Of course, it will also have an optical VF, a hotshoe for flash and external mike. There'll be full adjustments for aperture, shutter-speed and exposure for the 60p video and a choice of auto control or by using mechanical control rings for both photo and video.

Sony, even more than most manufacturers, is in a crisis and fighting for survival. This camera is designed to let them close in for the kill, over their meeker and less innovative competitors. The features Panasonic has on its new cameras and those that were left off of the RX100, will be on this one.

As I predicted two months ago, by late November, the RX100 will be on a closeout sale at half-price. Who doubts that I'm much more right than wrong about all these things?
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Stephen McDonald
Stephen McDonald Forum Pro • Posts: 13,530
Re: This has potential

pricklypear wrote:

"Impossible" and, if it were, "no one will buy it." Looks like it is possible and I, for one, will buy it.

Come on Sony, prove me right.

Nicely and concisely stated.
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theranman Veteran Member • Posts: 4,228
Re: This has potential

Stephen, if the camera you describe ever makes it to market....and at the price you mentioned ($1200), it would be THE Holy Grail of pocketcams...period, end of story. That's why it is highly unlikely it'll be happen. Who WOULDN'T buy it?! By the way, do you have a source for your prognostication?

Benoz
Benoz Veteran Member • Posts: 6,168
Re: What Will Actually Be Sold

Stephen McDonald wrote:

The RX1-F will have a full-frame MOS sensor with 22-MP. It will come with mounting threads for a lens adaptor tube on the housing and a new, high-grade 2.2X telextender will be issued with it. The actual price for the basic camera, which will have a 24mm to 140mm fixed Zeiss lens, will be $1,200. The adaptor will cost $40. and the telex will be $250 (could be used for many other cameras).

If you want more effective zoom, the Smart Zoom 11-MP mode will give about 210mm and the 5.5-MP mode, 280mm. With the 2.2X telex, this would be 616mm. Or, you could crop it later without using Smart Zoom, for much of the same effect. With this full-frame, high-quality sensor, you could even use the 5.5-MP SZ mode, plus the telex and also crop it, to get the equivalent of 1,232mm, with very decent results.

With a twist of the wrist, the telex and adaptor comes off and it's again a pocket camera (larger pocket). It will have the best versatility and quality through a wide range for close and distant subjects, that no D-SLR could match at anything close to its size or price. Of course, it will also have an optical VF, a hotshoe for flash and external mike. There'll be full adjustments for aperture, shutter-speed and exposure for the 60p video and a choice of auto control or by using mechanical control rings for both photo and video.

Sony, even more than most manufacturers, is in a crisis and fighting for survival. This camera is designed to let them close in for the kill, over their meeker and less innovative competitors. The features Panasonic has on its new cameras and those that were left off of the RX100, will be on this one.

As I predicted two months ago, by late November, the RX100 will be on a closeout sale at half-price. Who doubts that I'm much more right than wrong about all these things?
--

Hi Steve,

There seem to be a big differences mentioned here as far as fixed lens, VF and pricing.
Fixed lens 35mm? You're saying 24-140mm.
$2790/$3000? You're saying $1200.

If your details are correct this camera will sell like the proverbial hot cakes!!
Hope you're right!
Cheers
Ben

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EinsteinsGhost
EinsteinsGhost Forum Pro • Posts: 11,977
Re: This has potential

theranman wrote:

Stephen, if the camera you describe ever makes it to market....and at the price you mentioned ($1200), it would be THE Holy Grail of pocketcams...period, end of story. That's why it is highly unlikely it'll be happen. Who WOULDN'T buy it?! By the way, do you have a source for your prognostication?

I would bet on him being a troll.

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Stephen McDonald
Stephen McDonald Forum Pro • Posts: 13,530
Re: This has potential

theranman wrote:

Stephen, if the camera you describe ever makes it to market....and at the price you mentioned ($1200), it would be THE Holy Grail of pocketcams...period, end of story. That's why it is highly unlikely it'll be happen. Who WOULDN'T buy it?! By the way, do you have a source for your prognostication?

Even if this camera didn't make much profit for Sony at that price, it could still play a key factor in their survival. It could establish them as the true leader in high-grade, small and mid-priced cameras. This could lead to better business success for them later.

A source? This is the camera I have designed in my head and am offering to Sony. At the same time, I think that they will produce one much like this.

This is a first for me, having someone call me a troll on what for many years, was my home forum.
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