We wuz robbed !!!!!

Started Aug 28, 2012 | Discussions
D Williams Contributing Member • Posts: 819
Re: We wuz robbed !!!!!

Reading the RX-100 review brings to mind the first review DPR did on the NEX family. They did a reasonable job of comparing all of the RX-100 bits and pieces to the bits and pieces of all of the other 'comparable' cameras and come to reasonable conclusions. Given that level of inspection, and the initial price of the RX-100, a Silver rating could probably be justified.

Like the NEX, what DPR has missed is the significance of the concept that Sony is first manufacturer to execute. The RX-100 is the camera that serious enthusiasts of the type that read DPR have been waiting on for 10 years. The camera you really can take everywhere that you can't or don't want to take your DSLR and still have a reasonable expectation of getting an acceptable picture of whatever you might run into.

The RX-100 isn't perfect, and there will be better examples to come, but the the RX-100 is the first to get enough of the concept right to establish and validate the class. In two years, the staff at DPR will probably be setting around at their annual summer kegger/BBQ and, like the NEX, wonder how they missed the significance of the RX-100.

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pako
pako Senior Member • Posts: 1,844
Re: We wuz robbed !!!!!

R Butler wrote:

I agree with pretty much all of your points - and there are a lot of reasons to really like the RX100. And yes, I hope others will try to follow Sony down the 'larger sensor, tiny body' path.

However, I just never quite fell in love with the camera....

Hi Richard,

What do you think about the lens (you talk little about it in the review)

Regards

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Pako Dominguez
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Tvaclavek Regular Member • Posts: 207
Re: We wuz robbed !!!!!

+1

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  • Tom

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Maxxuman Senior Member • Posts: 1,771
Perhaps Richard has bigger pockets than some...

And no, I don't mean deeper pockets. But maybe it would have wowed him more if he really needed a camera that could fit unobtrusively in a pocket, yet deliver excellent IQ when required. I don't imagine people who review cameras for a living have that requirement, but some do.
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Barry

Al_10D Senior Member • Posts: 1,798
Canon PowerShot SD 4000 IS - Gold Award, & rx100 - Silver?

DP review as a joke now.

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bab4 Regular Member • Posts: 455
Re: We wuz robbed !!!!!

If it had a faster lens throughout, better ergonomics, more external manual controls that go clickity clack, and a hot shoe then that might have pushed it over to a Gold but adding those would just make it chunkier. Some of us place more value in it being minimalist, simple to use, and a true point and shoot that we can hand over to anybody and not have it be intimidating. If it's being penalized for that then so be it.. Different folks have different priorities.

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tbcass
tbcass Forum Pro • Posts: 32,512
Re: We wuz robbed !!!!!

R Butler wrote:

However, I just never quite fell in love with the camera. I've spent several weeks trying to assess and describe many of the benefits you mention here, so I feel I know the camera's strengths pretty well. It's just not a camera that I'm going to resent giving back. It's not a camera that I'm going to fiercely hold onto until the moment it gets shipped back to the manufacturer.

It's a great camera and Sony deserves a great deal of credit for it. But I just couldn't engage with it enough to give it the Gold.

Your response is reasonable and fair enough but as you said in another thread, it's subjective. I've been shooting SLRs since the 60s and presently own an A55 and A65 along with lenses and accessories. I haven't had a camera WOW me this much since my SRT 101 back in 1970. Why does it WOW me? Because it packs so much power, versatility, and IQ in a package that fits in my pocket. It has become my constant companion.

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tbcass
tbcass Forum Pro • Posts: 32,512
Re: We wuz robbed !!!!!

s majesk wrote:

There already seems to be a bias agianst Sony for being
the new upstart, taking the lead, pushing the technology, and trying to
give people what they really want.

This camera is a sure win for just the two main factors alone.
Pocket size with serious size sensor that produces superior IQ,
all the other factors are secondary.

If the RX100 was a Canon on it would have got the Gold.

Think again. The A55, A65 and NEX7 all got gold awards. Only the 5D Mk III has among Canon cameras.

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DFPanno
OP DFPanno Veteran Member • Posts: 5,239
Hard to understand their "gold standard"

Scratching my head here.

Kirwin
Kirwin Veteran Member • Posts: 7,253
Sony has accomplished where all others have failed...

...by creating a camera with many astounding attributes of a large sensor camera that can fit in your pocket!

And yet this milestone... called the RX100, is only worthy of dpreview's silver award.

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tbcass
tbcass Forum Pro • Posts: 32,512
Re: We wuz robbed !!!!!

Shorthand wrote:

I also agree that the review was completely fair.

The RX100, as good as it is under the hood, simply isn't as enjoyable to shoot with as some competitors ... too many settings really.

That is a matter of opinion. Too many settings? Never but then I use DSLRs. I find the RX100 very enjoyable to use. It's the first small camera I've ever used that I like. As far as I'm concerned among compacts there's the RX100 and the rest are junk but that's just my opinion. That's the problem with subjective opinions. What one doesn't like another might think is great. It's why people shouldn't take these "awards" too seriously because it's the opinion one or a handful of people and in this case the opinions were apparently closely divided.

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tbcass
tbcass Forum Pro • Posts: 32,512
Re: Canon PowerShot SD 4000 IS - Gold Award, & rx100 - Silver?

Al_10D wrote:

DP review as a joke now.

That review was 2 years ago and it was of an under $200 camera. Cameras are rated against others in their same price range at the time of the review. If that camera was $650 and was rated today it would probably get a "not recommended rusty iron" award....

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snapshot09 Veteran Member • Posts: 4,512
Re: Sony has accomplished where all others have failed...

Exactly...say no more.

Kirwin wrote:

...by creating a camera with many astounding attributes of a large sensor camera that can fit in your pocket!

Tom Hoots
Tom Hoots Veteran Member • Posts: 6,073
I think we have a "Class" classification problem here.

Richard Butler wrote:

Yes it's the best in class that we've tested (there's still the LX7 and, if Samsung ever lends us one, the EXF2), but it's just not quite got enough of a 'wow' factor to push it into Gold territory.

Excuse me?? So, a sensor twice the size or larger has NOTHING to with your "class" classification here?

Do you consider full-frame DSLR cameras and APS-C DSLR cameras to be in the same "class?"

Tom Hoots
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Richard Butler
Richard Butler dpreview Admin • Posts: 2,391
Re: I think we have a "Class" classification problem here.

Tom Hoots wrote:

Richard Butler wrote:

Yes it's the best in class that we've tested (there's still the LX7 and, if Samsung ever lends us one, the EXF2), but it's just not quite got enough of a 'wow' factor to push it into Gold territory.

Excuse me?? So, a sensor twice the size or larger has NOTHING to with your "class" classification here?

It does, but the border is a little fuzzy on that one. Put a brighter lens in front of a smaller sensor and some of that large sensor benefit is lost, since you end up with the same light gathering ability.

For example the LX7's F2.3 lens is over two stops brighter at the 90mm equiv end than the RX100's, more than making up for the sensor size difference ( assuming the sensors are of equal quality, which they may not be). I'm not saying the LX7 will be better, and I'd certainly expect the RX100 to beat it in some respects, but the gulf may not be as wide as you suggest.

Richard - dpreview.com

shlam Regular Member • Posts: 248
Re: I think we have a "Class" classification problem here.

R Butler wrote:

Tom Hoots wrote:

Richard Butler wrote:

Yes it's the best in class that we've tested (there's still the LX7 and, if Samsung ever lends us one, the EXF2), but it's just not quite got enough of a 'wow' factor to push it into Gold territory.

Excuse me?? So, a sensor twice the size or larger has NOTHING to with your "class" classification here?

So I guess the "Gold" category has nothing to do with being "Best in class", right? Or we can say that the XZ-1 has the most requisite "wow" factor.

Richard Butler
Richard Butler dpreview Admin • Posts: 2,391
Re: I think we have a "Class" classification problem here.

shlam wrote:

So I guess the "Gold" category has nothing to do with being "Best in class", right? Or we can say that the XZ-1 has the most requisite "wow" factor.

Being best in class certainly helps. Though it depends how good that class is. If all of the cameras are really good, but none of them is great, then nothing gets a Gold.

The XZ-1 had the 'wow' factor when it was reviewed, something like two years ago. We'd never seen a lens that bright in front of a sensor that big, with good JPEGs and an enjoyable user experience. The class has moved on. That's why review scores are explicitly related to the time they were reviewed.

Richard - dpreview.com

fjs Regular Member • Posts: 126
Re: Sony has accomplished where all others have failed...

If there ever were a question of bias against Sony, this silver award has answered it.

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FJS

DFPanno
OP DFPanno Veteran Member • Posts: 5,239
The readership and the reviewers are very out of synch !

I am most certainly NOT a SONY "fanboy" so the basis for my comment is not personalized disappointment:

The readership and the reviewers are very out of synch on what your ratings imply/mean and none of the statements here really clarifies it.

If "best in class" is not gold than what is? Vaporware?

You might be better off getting rid of the metal thing and just sticking to scores:

Objective score = x
Subjective score = y
composite score = z

and be done with it.

What you have currently have makes no sense.

(unknown member) Forum Pro • Posts: 13,144
Re: So the million dollar question is.......

DFPanno wrote:

What camera of similar size outshines it?

What pocketable camera would you have us buy if we were willing to sell our RX100s?

Which one is the "gold" one or does it not exist?

Very good questions.

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