Canon 1Ds mkIII and the Dolomites in June 2012

Started Aug 24, 2012 | Discussions
OP Hans Kruse Veteran Member • Posts: 3,432
Re: Try D800

Sure optimal exposure is better. However, in my limited testing of D800, pulling shadows 4 stops did not significantly affect the colors. The 5th stop did. Some pull up to 7. I wouldn't bother bracketing for shadows on D800, but the OP does it to select the perfect exposure to start with that is fine too of course.

The points being made here was not towards the D800 at all. I'm sure the D800 is a fine camera. I haven't tried it yet but I have guests on workshops this autumn who come with D800 cameras so will have a look at real landscape scenes.

Pulling shadows is fine to a certain degree and I'm sure this goes with the D800 as well. If you pull shadows 4 stops from ISO 100 they are equivalent to ISO 1600 and 5 stops ISO 3200 and 7 stops ISO 12800! Compared to blending bracketed shots this will give poor IQ. I fully understand that it is great to be able to recover shots with vast underexposure and still get a usable picture out of it, but that is not the best for IQ. Improvements in Lightroom 4.x and also the new 32bit support for Photoshop HDR Pro gives new possibilities with better IQ and still natural renderings than pulling shadows from a single exposure. Of course you cannot always bracket and/or blend images.

I don't think anybody has lost the D800 discussion here in the forum

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Press Correspondent
Press Correspondent Veteran Member • Posts: 3,345
Re: Try D800

Not that I care to continue the argument, but you are still missing my point. With a more than 2-stop DR advantage, a single shot from D800 would have cleaner shadows than a Canon shot bracketed at +1 or even +2 stops. Your logic would apply only to bracketing +4 or possibly at least +3 stops, but per your explanation, you normally only bracket +1 stops. You could also bracket on D800 and it may provide arguably better results, but my point was that, if you are already happy with the results from bracketing Canon, then you would not need to bracket Nikon to get even better results.

Also, high ISO always wins over pulling shadows, because of the read noise. Try shooting something at ISO 1600 with your 1Ds3, then use the same shutter speed and aperture at ISO 100 and pull it 4 stops in PP. The difference will be beyond dramatic. It is less so on D800, but still there.

Hans Kruse wrote:

Sure optimal exposure is better. However, in my limited testing of D800, pulling shadows 4 stops did not significantly affect the colors. The 5th stop did. Some pull up to 7. I wouldn't bother bracketing for shadows on D800, but the OP does it to select the perfect exposure to start with that is fine too of course.

The points being made here was not towards the D800 at all. I'm sure the D800 is a fine camera. I haven't tried it yet but I have guests on workshops this autumn who come with D800 cameras so will have a look at real landscape scenes.

Pulling shadows is fine to a certain degree and I'm sure this goes with the D800 as well. If you pull shadows 4 stops from ISO 100 they are equivalent to ISO 1600 and 5 stops ISO 3200 and 7 stops ISO 12800! Compared to blending bracketed shots this will give poor IQ. I fully understand that it is great to be able to recover shots with vast underexposure and still get a usable picture out of it, but that is not the best for IQ. Improvements in Lightroom 4.x and also the new 32bit support for Photoshop HDR Pro gives new possibilities with better IQ and still natural renderings than pulling shadows from a single exposure. Of course you cannot always bracket and/or blend images.

I don't think anybody has lost the D800 discussion here in the forum

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roustabout66 Contributing Member • Posts: 703
Re: Canon 1Ds mkIII and the Dolomites in June 2012

I shoot Nikon but it is starting to be embarassing seeing someone come into every Canon thread ranting about the superiority of the D800, D7000 etc. These are absolutely STUNNING photos in my opinion and other than absolute maximum print size I doubt anyone would see any superiority if shot with a D800 (assuming the D800 was in focus). Wonderful shots and thank you for sharing them.

OP Hans Kruse Veteran Member • Posts: 3,432
Re: Try D800

Press Correspondent wrote:

Not that I care to continue the argument, but you are still missing my point. With a more than 2-stop DR advantage, a single shot from D800 would have cleaner shadows than a Canon shot bracketed at +1 or even +2 stops. Your logic would apply only to bracketing +4 or possibly at least +3 stops, but per your explanation, you normally only bracket +1 stops. You could also bracket on D800 and it may provide arguably better results, but my point was that, if you are already happy with the results from bracketing Canon, then you would not need to bracket Nikon to get even better results.

I think you are missing my point I'm not interested in the D800 and I do not need the D800.

Also, high ISO always wins over pulling shadows, because of the read noise. Try shooting something at ISO 1600 with your 1Ds3, then use the same shutter speed and aperture at ISO 100 and pull it 4 stops in PP. The difference will be beyond dramatic. It is less so on D800, but still there.

I'm fully away of how this works, no need to further "educate" me on this I have btw. made such tests quite some time ago.

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Press Correspondent
Press Correspondent Veteran Member • Posts: 3,345
Re: Try D800

Hans Kruse wrote:

Press Correspondent wrote:

Not that I care to continue the argument, but you are still missing my point. With a more than 2-stop DR advantage, a single shot from D800 would have cleaner shadows than a Canon shot bracketed at +1 or even +2 stops. Your logic would apply only to bracketing +4 or possibly at least +3 stops, but per your explanation, you normally only bracket +1 stops. You could also bracket on D800 and it may provide arguably better results, but my point was that, if you are already happy with the results from bracketing Canon, then you would not need to bracket Nikon to get even better results.

I think you are missing my point I'm not interested in the D800 and I do not need the D800.

No Sir, you were arguing a technical point, no need to feel offended. This is the equipment forum and we were simply discussing the equipment differences. I don't need D800 either, but I enjoy and appreciate how much I have learned about the sensor technology after its release. If my car gets from zero to 60 in 7 seconds, but Ferrari does in 4, it does not mean I need the Ferrari, but I appreciate it's capability and do not argue against it. And do not get offended by a comparison.

Also, high ISO always wins over pulling shadows, because of the read noise. Try shooting something at ISO 1600 with your 1Ds3, then use the same shutter speed and aperture at ISO 100 and pull it 4 stops in PP. The difference will be beyond dramatic. It is less so on D800, but still there.

I'm fully away of how this works, no need to further "educate" me on this I have btw. made such tests quite some time ago.

Again, you sound offended for no reason. It was you who brought up the ISO argument, I simply clarified it on a specific example. Do you feel the need to always be right and get upset or switch topics when you are not? C'mon, are we in high school? I much prefer losing arguments on this forum, because every time I do, I learn something new and I really enjoy it. In your case, I have nothing to "educate" you, we are just discussing a technical matter on a technical forum. I do however have a lot to learn from you on making beautiful landscape photos.

Good shooting!

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OP Hans Kruse Veteran Member • Posts: 3,432
Re: Try D800

Press Correspondent wrote:

No Sir, you were arguing a technical point, no need to feel offended. This is the equipment forum and we were simply discussing the equipment differences. I don't need D800 either, but I enjoy and appreciate how much I have learned about the sensor technology after its release. If my car gets from zero to 60 in 7 seconds, but Ferrari does in 4, it does not mean I need the Ferrari, but I appreciate it's capability and do not argue against it. And do not get offended by a comparison.

I'm not offended, why should I?

Again, you sound offended for no reason. It was you who brought up the ISO argument, I simply clarified it on a specific example. Do you feel the need to always be right and get upset or switch topics when you are not? C'mon, are we in high school? I much prefer losing arguments on this forum, because every time I do, I learn something new and I really enjoy it. In your case, I have nothing to "educate" you, we are just discussing a technical matter on a technical forum. I do however have a lot to learn from you on making beautiful landscape photos.

Again I'm not offended, but just a little tired of seeing the same arguments about the D800 repeated over and over. That's what I meant by "educating" and why it put it in quotes. I'm not loosing an argument and it's not about being right. I'm just pointing out how you can use a camera like the 1Ds mkIII with the technique described and with Lightroom 4.1 (and PS CS HSR Pro) and I don't think this is so much common knowledge, but I could be mistaken

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M DeNero Regular Member • Posts: 112
Re: Try D800

How typical that this thread of spectacular images by Hans Kruse has been hijacked and turned into the Press Correspondent/D800 show. What a boor this interloper is! Take a look at Hr. Kruse's gallery, then at Press Correspondent's. Then tell us who you would rather listen to.
--
Matt

Hoogineer
Hoogineer Regular Member • Posts: 211
Re: Canon 1Ds mkIII and the Dolomites in June 2012

Spectacular shots. The penultimate one (with the leaning tree in the foreground) is simply incredible.

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Press Correspondent
Press Correspondent Veteran Member • Posts: 3,345
Re: Try D800

Hans Kruse wrote:

I'm just pointing out how you can use a camera like the 1Ds mkIII with the technique described and with Lightroom 4.1 (and PS CS HSR Pro) and I don't think this is so much common knowledge, but I could be mistaken

And your results are trully wonderful, Sir!

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OP Hans Kruse Veteran Member • Posts: 3,432
Re: Try D800

Press Correspondent wrote:

And your results are trully wonderful, Sir!

Certainly thanks for that

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md7953 Regular Member • Posts: 155
Re: Canon 1Ds mkIII and the Dolomites in June 2012

Hans, You are by far the best landscape photographer in Denmark! Love your shots...every one...never fails:-)

Best regards
Mads

Press Correspondent
Press Correspondent Veteran Member • Posts: 3,345
Re: Try D800

M DeNero wrote:

How typical that this thread of spectacular images by Hans Kruse has been hijacked and turned into the Press Correspondent/D800 show. What a boor this interloper is! Take a look at Hr. Kruse's gallery, then at Press Correspondent's. Then tell us who you would rather listen to.

How typical is for ignorant users to quickly flip from the topic of photography to a personal attack! You forget that this is the EQUIPMENT forum to discuss and demonstrate the capabilities of the equipment and any photos posted here are only for the purpose of discussing the equipment and settings used, as well as comparing to other options. To that extent, my gallery only contains test images to demonstrate focusing issues, PP concerns, or high ISO settings. It is not at all for posting pretty pictures, as you mistakenly think. And what do we see in your gallery? Hmmm... one cat... Great! Thanks for bringing this up! Keep up good work, but if I see another personal attack from you, I would promptly report you to the moderators to have your ID banned for the violation of the forum rules.

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bronxbombers Forum Pro • Posts: 18,226
oh brother not you again and your stinkin' dolomite obsession (where are the cats!!!!

why not some snaps of your cat instead???!???

ok man wow really outdid yourself once again!
awesome!

just wonderufl lighting and composition

after my first trip to europe i remember i was always raving about the Dolomites, what a wonder place, i've been back twice, but not for a while now

bronxbombers Forum Pro • Posts: 18,226
Re: but he needs a camera that focuses!

tko wrote:

The Canon seems to be the sweet spot of resolution and focusing, because you need both.

for landscapes you can just use liveview and i don't think the d800 is that bad that it can't focus on a mountain anyway

rwbaron Forum Pro • Posts: 13,591
Re: Canon 1Ds mkIII and the Dolomites in June 2012

Hans,

What would be very interesting for me and I assume others would be to see a JPEG of the original unprocessed RAW files. I'm curious to see what the shadows and highlights look like before processing on my calibrated monitor. If you prefer not to I understand.

Thanks

Bob
--
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OvinceZ
OvinceZ Senior Member • Posts: 2,725
Rubbish.

This is the top Canon forum. Whether the D800 is superior, etc., is irrelevant to a thread like this. This forum is not only about equipment but what the equipment can do.

I find it rather tedious to read the comments about trying the D800. I go to that forum if I want to hear how great it is. I have used the D800E and like it. However, Hans has posted some of the best photos seen on dpreview and has explained to some of us how he did it. That is laudable and valued by readers such as myself.

He has been very patient replying to you and doesn't need any help. Just saying that I find it rather negative finding D800 comments in a thread that shows how wonderful photos can be using Canon cameras and lenses.

I will use the tips Hans gives in this thread to improve my photos. I will have a chance to use the D800E soon and will compare what it can do vs the 5DII. I definitely won't post the results in this thread!

Vince
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Press Correspondent
Press Correspondent Veteran Member • Posts: 3,345
Re: Rubbish.

Sure Sir, I respect your opinion and you are most certainly free to follow it. In turn, if I happen to discuss any technical issue with anyone, be it comparing brands or anything else, I also certainly would not ask anyone else's permission. If I were posting something about Nikon only, then the Nikon forum certainly would be a better place. However, my discussion with the OP (which by the way should not concern anyone else) was about comparing Canon and Nikon on technical merits and therefore was perfectly appropriate for this forum. People here should have more tolerance instead of using a cookie cutter to measure opinions that do not match their own.

On a loosely related note, I canceled today my B&H order for D800e deciding to stay with Canon.

OvinceZ wrote:

This is the top Canon forum. Whether the D800 is superior, etc., is irrelevant to a thread like this. This forum is not only about equipment but what the equipment can do.

I find it rather tedious to read the comments about trying the D800. I go to that forum if I want to hear how great it is. I have used the D800E and like it. However, Hans has posted some of the best photos seen on dpreview and has explained to some of us how he did it. That is laudable and valued by readers such as myself.

He has been very patient replying to you and doesn't need any help. Just saying that I find it rather negative finding D800 comments in a thread that shows how wonderful photos can be using Canon cameras and lenses.

I will use the tips Hans gives in this thread to improve my photos. I will have a chance to use the D800E soon and will compare what it can do vs the 5DII. I definitely won't post the results in this thread!

Vince
--
Everyone is an expert on dpreview!

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OvinceZ
OvinceZ Senior Member • Posts: 2,725
Re: Rubbish.

Press Correspondent wrote:

Sure Sir, I respect your opinion and you are most certainly free to follow it. In turn, if I happen to discuss any technical issue with anyone, be it comparing brands or anything else, I also certainly would not ask anyone else's permission. If I were posting something about Nikon only, then the Nikon forum certainly would be a better place. However, my discussion with the OP (which by the way should not concern anyone else) was about comparing Canon and Nikon on technical merits and therefore was perfectly appropriate for this forum. People here should have more tolerance instead of using a cookie cutter to measure opinions that do not match their own.

On a loosely related note, I canceled today my B&H order for D800e deciding to stay with Canon.

We all read posts in threads that interest us. The debate about D800 vs 5DIII continues and has a long way to go!

How you could cancel your order for the D800E is amazing. Almost a miracle!

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Press Correspondent
Press Correspondent Veteran Member • Posts: 3,345
Order

OvinceZ wrote:

Press Correspondent wrote:

On a loosely related note, I canceled today my B&H order for D800e deciding to stay with Canon.

How you could cancel your order for the D800E is amazing. Almost a miracle!

I know... It was back ordered for months and now we are so close to Photokina that it makes no sense to buy anything before we see what's coming. I mean, c'mon Nikon, what's the point of announcing a camera if you can't make it before the competition catches up? Yeah, the Sony sensor is great, but the Nikon body and whole system just look increasingly unattractive with so many problems and issues...

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OP Hans Kruse Veteran Member • Posts: 3,432
Re: Order

Press Correspondent wrote:

I know... It was back ordered for months and now we are so close to Photokina that it makes no sense to buy anything before we see what's coming. I mean, c'mon Nikon, what's the point of announcing a camera if you can't make it before the competition catches up? Yeah, the Sony sensor is great, but the Nikon body and whole system just look increasingly unattractive with so many problems and issues...

Interesting! You see I use a 4.5 year old camera that for me still gives top results. As I have mentioned I know very well about the D800, but still I continue with the 1Ds mkIII. Maybe this is an eye opener for you? Marginally better technical specs in the same form factor only gives little and your pictures will probably for a period of time be inferior since you will need time to know a new camera, especially if you change brands.

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