Rob Galbraiths Rubbery figures.

Started Aug 24, 2012 | Discussions
thubleau7 Contributing Member • Posts: 516
Rob Galbraiths Rubbery figures.

I had a look at pages of data that Rob Galbraith had acquired on memory cards.
Rob tested these on high end Canon and Nikon cameras.

He ran a test taking 30 seconds with RAW plus JPEG on the cameras to see how many frames would be taken.

His figures on a 20mb card is way down around the 39 frame mark and his high figures for the fastest card is around 79 frames..

i just wondered did Rob actually test all these cards or merely calculate the figures because i ran my own tests 8 times using a 20mb card and a 95 mb card and my figures on a Sony A57 did not support his claims.

The 20 MB card took 80 to 82 frames and the 95MB card took 80 to 84 frames.That is actual RAW plus JPEG and I counted them by downloading onto my computer.

Once again I have to ask how did he get these figures because in theory they stack up but in practice they are nowhere near the truth and quite rubbery.?

Ok I know there are some out there are going to say they would rather believe Rob than me because firstly maybe they dont like me and my posts and because Rob should know what he is doing and I am an amatuer in comparison blah blah blah but hey !! do the test yourself just dont take my word for it and then ask yourself how much can you really believe and are these results actually tested and confirmed.

On that note maybe we should let Mythbusters have a crack at this one.

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GodSpeaks
GodSpeaks Forum Pro • Posts: 12,493
Give it a rest, guy (nt)
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OP thubleau7 Contributing Member • Posts: 516
Re: Give it a rest, guy (nt)

So, Mrs Christian person, you dont mind, lies,deception, BS,and whatever the Almighty would have you believe............oh sorry..i am insulting your beliefs no matter how mis directed.

(unknown member) Contributing Member • Posts: 651
Re: Rob Galbraiths Rubbery figures.

thubleau7 wrote:

On that note maybe we should let Mythbusters have a crack at this one.

That's great! We're all anxious to see how Galbraith's blatant lie gets revealed to the face of the world. Pls Keep us updated! Sure this is going to change the face of the future.

On a separate note, I think the FBI should have a word on it too.

quatpat Contributing Member • Posts: 936
Re: Rob Galbraiths Rubbery figures.

I think you should first know what you are talking about.

First, it is the Mb/s write speed that matters, not the Mb as you put it. Second, it depends very much on the file size, buffer size, and card compatibility of the camera. For example, the A77 can use the write speed of a 95Mb/s card, while the A65 can not. Therefore it is no use to pay for a faster than 45Mb/s card on a A65.

What is your test supposed to prove? That different cameras have different write speeds with different cards? I think most of us already knew that. If your A57 takes the same amount of photos with a 20MB/s card as with a 95MB/s card then this means that your camera either doesn't support the 95MB/s card at it's maximum write speed, or that the 16MP files of the camera do not require any faster card. Or both.

qp

thubleau7 wrote:

I had a look at pages of data that Rob Galbraith had acquired on memory cards.
Rob tested these on high end Canon and Nikon cameras.

He ran a test taking 30 seconds with RAW plus JPEG on the cameras to see how many frames would be taken.

His figures on a 20mb card is way down around the 39 frame mark and his high figures for the fastest card is around 79 frames..

i just wondered did Rob actually test all these cards or merely calculate the figures because i ran my own tests 8 times using a 20mb card and a 95 mb card and my figures on a Sony A57 did not support his claims.

The 20 MB card took 80 to 82 frames and the 95MB card took 80 to 84 frames.That is actual RAW plus JPEG and I counted them by downloading onto my computer.

Once again I have to ask how did he get these figures because in theory they stack up but in practice they are nowhere near the truth and quite rubbery.?

Ok I know there are some out there are going to say they would rather believe Rob than me because firstly maybe they dont like me and my posts and because Rob should know what he is doing and I am an amatuer in comparison blah blah blah but hey !! do the test yourself just dont take my word for it and then ask yourself how much can you really believe and are these results actually tested and confirmed.

On that note maybe we should let Mythbusters have a crack at this one.

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OP thubleau7 Contributing Member • Posts: 516
Re: Rob Galbraiths Rubbery figures.

Clearly you missed the point.
The Fastest cards tested were up to 250mb/sec

the results for the A57 show a 30 second frame result the same as the fastest card tested in a Canon 1D but it also shows the same result for the slowest card tested at 80 frames for 30 seconds not the galbraith test of 42.
The canon would have a far superior system than a humble A57.

OP thubleau7 Contributing Member • Posts: 516
Re: Rob Galbraiths Rubbery figures.

And the CIA and Homeland security maybe the X files can can involved.do your best and keep digging the truth is out there somewhere.

Denis247 Senior Member • Posts: 1,581
Re: Rob Galbraiths Rubbery figures.

They'll probably blow them up too, just to test their 'blowupability'.

thubleau7 wrote:

On that note maybe we should let Mythbusters have a crack at this one.

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39 Steps Regular Member • Posts: 403
Re: Rob Galbraiths Rubbery figures.

thubleau7 wrote:

I had a look at pages of data that Rob Galbraith had acquired on memory cards.
Rob tested these on high end Canon and Nikon cameras.

My take on Gallbraith's Canon EOS 5D Mark II vs Mark III write speed observations for:

"SanDisk Extreme Pro 95MB/s 16GB Actual Capacity: 15194MB
Protocols: SD 3.01 (UHS-1)
Internal Identifier: n/a
External Identifier: BL1129521761G
Website: http://www.sandisk.com/ "

is that neither version of the Canon 5D is optomized for fastest writing to fast SD cards, and that SD UHS-1 bus writing is barely supported at all on the Canon EOS 5D Mark II. Keep in mind that the Mark II is rather old and that "semi-pro" video in a non-AVCHD format was a breakthrough feature at the time. (Or so I read a few years back).

My only real experience with Canon Video cameras at the time (early 2008) was to be one of the first to buy a Vixia HF 100 that supported Class 4 and Class 6 SD cards up to AVCHD 60i 1080x1920 at 17Mb/s. When Class 10 cards hit the market, Canon refused to update the firmware of the HF 100 to support Class 10.

However, it came to my attention yesterday that in mid 2011, Canon had relented and released newer firmware for Class 10 support on the Vixia HF 100. I installed the newer firmware, but then put the camera back on the shelf for further lack of use.

So go ahead and shoot this messenger as well, if need be, but please try to consider that Galbraith's tests may be displaying data for a cameras other than Sony of performance that may not be of directly comparable to our current Sony hardware or of a category that is identical to your tests.

39 Steps Regular Member • Posts: 403
Re: Rob Galbraiths Rubbery figures.

thubleau7 wrote:

Clearly you missed the point.
The Fastest cards tested were up to 250mb/sec

the results for the A57 show a 30 second frame result the same as the fastest card tested in a Canon 1D but it also shows the same result for the slowest card tested at 80 frames for 30 seconds not the galbraith test of 42.
The canon would have a far superior system than a humble A57.

More than one of us may have missed the point here, but it seems that in its dual card devices Canon may have been relying on Compact Flash card system capabilities for its highest data rate recording instead of the evolving SDHC card technology.

OP thubleau7 Contributing Member • Posts: 516
Re: Rob Galbraiths Rubbery figures.

I'm not going to shoot you but the point just seems to be getting lost in translation.

My point is this, how come the A57 produces a high result comparable to the Canon 5DMK11 Mk111 Canon 1D over the 30 second burst and yet the low mark on the 20mb card is still the same as the 95mb/card.

But when you look at the Canon scores the high mark is no better than the A57 using the Pro cards 1000 and yet the low mark for say the 20mb/card is nearly half the result of the 20mb/card in the A57.

It just does not add up.

if the tests were accurately done and not just a calculation based on mb/sec then why is the A57 producing real world results for the 20/mb card and the 95mb/card which are the same allowing for 5 percent measurment error and yet the results in the Poweful canon group shows the 20mb/card is way down on speed compared to the top card?

To me it sticks out and says there is something not right with Robs results.....its almost like a scale test in Mythbusters.where they prove that you just can't take a 1/10th scale object and compare the results to a full size object...the calculations will not add up because results are flawed once you go under a certain size ratio.the same with these cards applying what a 1000 card can do and then doing some calculations or relying on a manufacturers web site to provide detail on what a 20mb card can do in camera without actually doing a test in camera..

Ralf B
Ralf B Veteran Member • Posts: 8,011
An equation with too many unknown variables

I think that no-one can reverse-engineer the design decisions taken by Canon, Nikon and Sony with regards to camera bus speed, buffer size, memory protocol, interface layout etc. etc. just by comparing memory card performance data from different cameras. No-one knows the buffer dimensions for example except the folks that designed and build them.

It looks like the a57 buffer is in relation rather large - that design decision eventually driven by the need to be compliant with slow SD cards while shooting HD video - and that masks a lot of the different compliant card speeds to a degree where a card faster than 45MB/Sec does not give a higher capture frame rate. A fast card still is faster in read-out provided a fast card reader - but that is another topic.

That is what I believe can be concluded from all this.

P.S.: Off topic: Dissing someone else's findings as "rubbery" apparently did not help in keeping the discussion on a factual level.
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39 Steps Regular Member • Posts: 403
Re: An equation with too many unknown variables

Ralf Bliesener wrote:

That is what I believe can be concluded from all this.

P.S.: Off topic: Dissing someone else's findings as "rubbery" apparently did not help in keeping the discussion on a factual level.
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Fact: I didn't even notice the A57 red record light blinking under my thumb until I had buffer clearing delays when taking video at a fair.

Opinion: I believe that both the Original Poster of this thread and the Web site that the OP demeaned provided reasonably correct and unbiased data from their tests. I feel that this data, in its totality, can be interpreted to make rational decisions about purchases of SDHC cards from Class 4 to "Ultra high speed" class 10.

I also feel that if the user with a working SD card of any class does nothing and reads no SD card specs and makes no new SD card purchases, the worst that can happen is an additional 30 second wait period for buffer clearing in continuous still mode with the A57.

seilerbird666
seilerbird666 Senior Member • Posts: 1,101
Re: Give it a rest, guy (nt)

You gotta feel sorry for someone with the sole goal in life is to unscientifically measure memory card speeds and then think he is coming up with any kind of valid conclusion. To put it bluntly absolutely no one cares about your dumb tests. We buy cameras to take photos, not to measure card speed. I don't give a hoot if Rob is wrong or not. Give it a rest and go do something meaningful.
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Tom2572
Tom2572 Senior Member • Posts: 1,129
Re: Rob Galbraiths Rubbery figures.

thubleau7 wrote:

I'm not going to shoot you but the point just seems to be getting lost in translation.

My point is this, how come the A57 produces a high result comparable to the Canon 5DMK11 Mk111 Canon 1D over the 30 second burst and yet the low mark on the 20mb card is still the same as the 95mb/card.

But when you look at the Canon scores the high mark is no better than the A57 using the Pro cards 1000 and yet the low mark for say the 20mb/card is nearly half the result of the 20mb/card in the A57.

It just does not add up.

if the tests were accurately done and not just a calculation based on mb/sec then why is the A57 producing real world results for the 20/mb card and the 95mb/card which are the same allowing for 5 percent measurment error and yet the results in the Poweful canon group shows the 20mb/card is way down on speed compared to the top card?

To me it sticks out and says there is something not right with Robs results.....its almost like a scale test in Mythbusters.where they prove that you just can't take a 1/10th scale object and compare the results to a full size object...the calculations will not add up because results are flawed once you go under a certain size ratio.the same with these cards applying what a 1000 card can do and then doing some calculations or relying on a manufacturers web site to provide detail on what a 20mb card can do in camera without actually doing a test in camera..

One thing it looks like you may not have taken into account as a possible explanation is sample variation of the SD cards themselves. In the SD card, this industry makes something that wouldn't have been considered possible 20 years ago and shrunk it to the size it is for under $50 retail and lower in some cases, which further translates to a probable $2-$4 total production cost per unit made by the lowest bidder in China.

With those parameters, expecting products like this to have zero variation over millions of units produced is a lesson in futility. For experiments like this to be done properly would take testing multiple units from verified separate production runs and verified separate production facilities if they are produced as such. Since this is the Internet though and no one questions testing methods anymore, I always read "reviews" of any sort with a grain of salt even when they are done by well known and respected sources.

As a side note I think it's great what you're doing and don't let others discourage you with their playschool comments about getting a life. Doing something you enjoy and aren't getting paid for is the very definition of hobby no matter what anyone else thinks of it.

Peter McNeill Senior Member • Posts: 1,554
Re: Rob Galbraiths Rubbery figures.

My problem whether right or wrong, is Rob is a somebody, an accomplished photographer, now a teacher at uni, and he's being supposedly schooled by a person that posts on a forum with no creds or anything really to say he knows what he's talking about. For now, I take Rob's side. Counting by downloading on to a computer is absurd.. throw accuracy out the window and it has nothing to do with camera writes to cards.

30 second raw+jpg on my A65... I will get nowhere near 80 frames and it's only a frame or 2 slower than the A57 according to those that tested properly. I'll admit I've not tested this properly myself but again my fastest card at the moment is in the 20mbs segment. Still it's been a fun read with all the comments and all.
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tbcass
tbcass Forum Pro • Posts: 31,218
Re: Rob Galbraiths Rubbery figures.

thubleau7 wrote:

Ok I know there are some out there are going to say they would rather believe Rob than me because firstly maybe they dont like me and my posts and because Rob should know what he is doing and I am an amatuer in comparison blah blah blah but hey !! do the test yourself just dont take my word for it and then ask yourself how much can you really believe and are these results actually tested and confirmed.

Don't worry I believe you. I've read enough of your posts to trust your opinion and I have no idea who this Rob Galbraith character is and what his expertise is. However, card speed can vary greatly from camera to camera. Maybe the cameras he tested, while high end, were older and couldn't maintain as high a write speed as the A57. Maybe the file sizes were different as that can effect speed.

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tbcass
tbcass Forum Pro • Posts: 31,218
Re: Rob Galbraiths Rubbery figures.

Peter McNeill wrote:

My problem whether right or wrong, is Rob is a somebody, an accomplished photographer, now a teacher at uni, and he's being supposedly schooled by a person that posts on a forum with no creds or anything really to say he knows what he's talking about. For now, I take Rob's side.

Just because Galbraith is an accomplished photographer doesn't mean he knows anything at all about testing memory cards. He's not an engineer. It is entirely possible the OP knows more so lets cut him some slack.

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OP thubleau7 Contributing Member • Posts: 516
Re: Rob Galbraiths Rubbery figures.

Thanks for you kind remarks and I guess it is like real life ,if you dont ask questions or observe with your eyes and mind and then one day you find out your wife/husband has been having an affair for years or your boss is about to sack you for under performance or you get pulled up by the police for baldy tires because you did not look at them or didn't realise why the put a tread on them or your camera wont work because the batteries flat and someone never told you it needed charging or you have been shooting all day without a memory card because you forgot to turn that feature off.

OP thubleau7 Contributing Member • Posts: 516
Re: An equation with too many unknown variables

Thanks Ralph I left myself open by saying Rubbery instead of ...........................but anyway I knew it would let the children come out to play and the animals out of their cage.

Its' probably because the forums I have been on in the past have consisted of 5 times the members,five times the comments and five times the maturity,I am just not used to dealing with children any more with new toys and the inabilty to think without first putting their brain into gear.

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