Frustrated with this Forum's Photographic Examples

Started Aug 18, 2012 | Discussions
4x5 Guy Senior Member • Posts: 1,341
Re: Frustrated with this Forum's Photographic Examples

coudet wrote:

This is forum where people discuss technical aspects of our gear. So, that's exactly what it is used for.

Please. That's what the forum should be used for. But it has largely become a show and tell with terrible snaps, captures, etc being shown. The terminology used to describe the images is enough to tell you how they are perceived.

OP Biological_Viewfinder Senior Member • Posts: 2,207
Thank you for your images

I think that the violin player's hands should also be in focus, since what she is doing with them is critically important. Sometimes shallow depth of field gets overused for no good reason, or it just wasn't thought out well. On the other hand, it works perfectly well for the leopard.

The beach is way, way, way over saturated.

That said, I mostly like your examples and I thank you for sharing.
--

There are 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.

OP Biological_Viewfinder Senior Member • Posts: 2,207
tashley

Number 1: That's on purpose. I have wonderful pictures, but I don't need any help to understand that. I don't require anyone's praise to realize that. I don't need to share my work anywhere, and I certainly don't want people copying my work.

Number 2: Even if I posted an image that would make mother's cry, angel's sing, and dead men dance; the cynical, sarcastic people on the internet would find something, anything at all, wrong with it.

tashley wrote:

I can't help but wonder why, given his complaint, the OP has no images in his gallery, nor a link to any in his signature?

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There are 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.

drifter605 Regular Member • Posts: 130
Re: tashley

What utter rubbish!!

Biological_Viewfinder wrote:

Number 1: That's on purpose. I have wonderful pictures, but I don't need any help to understand that. I don't require anyone's praise to realize that. I don't need to share my work anywhere, and I certainly don't want people copying my work.

Number 2: Even if I posted an image that would make mother's cry, angel's sing, and dead men dance; the cynical, sarcastic people on the internet would find something, anything at all, wrong with it.

tashley wrote:

I can't help but wonder why, given his complaint, the OP has no images in his gallery, nor a link to any in his signature?

OP Biological_Viewfinder Senior Member • Posts: 2,207
Doublehelix

Doublehelix wrote:

It is an honor to be in the presence of such greatness!

Obviously you were just born with such great talent that you did not need to work on your skills, nor solicit feedback. Why you should you, since you have been perfect since birth and there is nothing more for you to learn?

I am so envious!

Perhaps I was born with some talent that many others don't possess, how can I be sure?

What I do know is how to make beautiful pictures. It doesn't take a degree in photography to appreciate a nice image. What I don't appreciate are images that are only so-so taken with gear that costs thousands of dollars.

I haven't always been good at my photography, it took time and effort to build up experience and to find creative ways to post-process my work. But I never needed anyone to hold my hand like a child crossing the street. I knew when my pictures were bad and when they were good, and I still do, and I always will. I don't need to be patted on the head over it.

OP Biological_Viewfinder Senior Member • Posts: 2,207
I just took one like that recently

I eventually found that ISO 1600 at 15-20 seconds worked pretty well.

I like your shot. It's not a snapshot, it's art you are learning to perfect.
It cannot be replicated by an inferior camera.
It represents time and effort.

But a large majority of the stuff posted are snapshots, are not art, can be replicated by inferior cameras, and represent nothing.

-- hide signature --

There are 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.

drifter605 Regular Member • Posts: 130
Re: Doublehelix

Now any normal person would post a picture to prove their point wouldn't they!!? this guy is a wind up!!

Biological_Viewfinder wrote:

Doublehelix wrote:

It is an honor to be in the presence of such greatness!

Obviously you were just born with such great talent that you did not need to work on your skills, nor solicit feedback. Why you should you, since you have been perfect since birth and there is nothing more for you to learn?

I am so envious!

Perhaps I was born with some talent that many others don't possess, how can I be sure?

What I do know is how to make beautiful pictures. It doesn't take a degree in photography to appreciate a nice image. What I don't appreciate are images that are only so-so taken with gear that costs thousands of dollars.

I haven't always been good at my photography, it took time and effort to build up experience and to find creative ways to post-process my work. But I never needed anyone to hold my hand like a child crossing the street. I knew when my pictures were bad and when they were good, and I still do, and I always will. I don't need to be patted on the head over it.

tashley Veteran Member • Posts: 4,189
Re: Frustrated with this Forum's Photographic Examples

And I have repeatedly challenged you in particular to stop being so negative and either show some pictures yourself, or ignore the photo and request for critique threads.

Look back at your posting history. You are an unpleasant and pernicious influence on this forum, always complaining and sniping and never trying to add anything positive at all.

4x5 Guy wrote:

coudet wrote:

This is forum where people discuss technical aspects of our gear. So, that's exactly what it is used for.

Please. That's what the forum should be used for. But it has largely become a show and tell with terrible snaps, captures, etc being shown. The terminology used to describe the images is enough to tell you how they are perceived.

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Gallery & Blog : http://www.timashley.com

OP Biological_Viewfinder Senior Member • Posts: 2,207
Re: Doublehelix

drifter605 wrote:

Now any normal person would post a picture to prove their point wouldn't they!!? this guy is a wind up!!

Um, no. It's a trap. You might as well ask how old I am, and then make fun at any answer you receive. It's not even a good trap.

tashley Veteran Member • Posts: 4,189
Re: tashley

I understand your reasoning and agree with large parts of it... but when you know your work is good, then ill-informed or construed criticism becomes irrelevant and there are lots of people on here who aren't cynical or sarcastic and who really like to see good images. There are also lots of people who might make constructive comment, rather than criticism, that might be useful or interesting to even the best photographer. Despite the carping here, there are a still plenty of good guys.

All that said there's no reason you should share, other than the pleasure and edification it might give others, but I do think that criticising the work of others rings hollow with many readers unless they can see the base from which you criticise. I know you don't agree but it's clear from the responses in this thread that many people feel that way.

ps I don't think really good work can be copied, just imitated or aped, so you should have no real worries there!

Biological_Viewfinder wrote:

Number 1: That's on purpose. I have wonderful pictures, but I don't need any help to understand that. I don't require anyone's praise to realize that. I don't need to share my work anywhere, and I certainly don't want people copying my work.

Number 2: Even if I posted an image that would make mother's cry, angel's sing, and dead men dance; the cynical, sarcastic people on the internet would find something, anything at all, wrong with it.

tashley wrote:

I can't help but wonder why, given his complaint, the OP has no images in his gallery, nor a link to any in his signature?

-- hide signature --

Gallery & Blog : http://www.timashley.com

OP Biological_Viewfinder Senior Member • Posts: 2,207
Re: tashley

tashley wrote:

I understand your reasoning and agree with large parts of it... but when you know your work is good, then ill-informed or construed criticism becomes irrelevant and there are lots of people on here who aren't cynical or sarcastic and who really like to see good images. There are also lots of people who might make constructive comment, rather than criticism, that might be useful or interesting to even the best photographer. Despite the carping here, there are a still plenty of good guys.

All that said there's no reason you should share, other than the pleasure and edification it might give others, but I do think that criticising the work of others rings hollow with many readers unless they can see the base from which you criticise. I know you don't agree but it's clear from the responses in this thread that many people feel that way.

It is my hope that some people who do average work and post for help, will do so in the beginner's section where they belong.

It is my hope that when someone does post a picture from a camera system costing thousands of dollars, that it is an appealing picture.

A lot of pictures are good, but the majority aren't worth posting.

I suppose it's kind of like getting mad at people for rubber-necking a car accident and making my damned line in the highway last longer because they want to see a bloody arm or something. I could honk the horn, but I'd only be educating the very few people around me that will hear it. The next time, at the next accident, there will be new people slowing down for a good look. So I guess it's the same here as well; I'm just spinning my wheels for something which I know to be true, but for which nothing or almost nothing will change.

rgolub
rgolub Senior Member • Posts: 2,061
Re: Thank you for your images

OK, you get some images and you 1) congratulate the photographer on their skill (which you decry as a Terrible Thing in your initial rant and then 2) give some typically trite advice as part of a "C&C".

You're not particularly consistent about your views and you aren't even apparently cognizant that these forums are not C&C venues.

What precisely is your point? I'd have to agree with a couple of other posters - quit being so negative and if you want to hang out on C&C forums, please do so - this aint one of them.
--
RG
http://www.lostrange.com

 rgolub's gear list:rgolub's gear list
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DANdeMAN
DANdeMAN Senior Member • Posts: 1,001
The 3 Stooges

There was Jeff Beck the "photography teacher" with is ongoing trashing of amateur not deserving of the D800. Then russbarns went ape with these 2 threads
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1021&thread=42241576
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1021&thread=42231344
And now BV as gone postal...
Who's next!? lol
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Robin Casady Forum Pro • Posts: 12,898
If you want to see interesting photos try 1x.com

http://1x.com/photos

You wont find stupid snapshots of family and pets there.
--
Robin Casady
http://www.robincasady.com/Photo/index.html

Tony Beach Forum Pro • Posts: 11,197
People in glass houses...

Throwing stones from a glass house is ill-advised, whereas a homeless person can do it with a much greater degree of impunity.

primeshooter
primeshooter Veteran Member • Posts: 4,842
Re: Trollage.

moving_comfort wrote:

Biological_Viewfinder wrote:

I really think it would be in poor taste to give examples, but I'm really just astounded by the lack of photographic ability, either technically or creatively on these forums. ...

Interesting viewpoint! However I'm left to wonder why you yourself never post examples of your work, have nothing in your galleries, have not entered any challenges, and have no link to your work anywhere in your sig or profile.

(I suspect you may simply be bored and are trolling - my guess as to the reason for this glaring disparity between opinion and anything available to back it up )

Sigh.

Indeed.

There are 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.

Translate this: 01001100 01001111 01001100

.
--
Here are a few of my favorite things...
---> http://www.flickr.com/photos/95095968@N00/sets/72157626171532197/

+1, I couldn't help but laugh out loud when his post is just so ironic! He's a well known troll...

RBFresno
RBFresno Forum Pro • Posts: 12,594
Re: If you want to see interesting photos try 1x.com

http://1x.com/photos

You wont find stupid snapshots of family and pets there.

You're right. Lots of great images!

The difference between a highly moderated and a highly unmoderated site.

RB

http://www.dpreview.com/members/2305099006/challenges
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Phil Hill Senior Member • Posts: 2,757
Really?

Photo Pete wrote:

What I do find frustrating is reading comments from people who give no links to their own photos or have no gallery images. I tend to dismiss any comments from that sort of poster as being uninformed (They have given me no reason to believe they know what they are talking about).

Uploading images isn’t the only way to present one’s work, and some people prefer prints. When I have a shot with artistic merit, the last thing I’m going to do is ruin it by throwing away 80% of the information for viewing on a 72-96ppi back-illuminated display. Computer screens are okay for snapshots, but not, in my opinion, serious art.

Your view may be different, and that’s my point. Lack of uploaded images doesn’t really prove anything. And I’d even go so far as to say that nobody in these forums really has to prove anything at all. Why is “proof” required to back up one’s opinion?

When you visit an art gallery, do you only listen to comments by proven artists? Does every art critic have to be an accomplished artist before you’ll take their comments seriously?

Photo Pete Veteran Member • Posts: 4,197
Re: Frustrated with this Forum's Photographic Examples

sssesq wrote:

Photo Pete wrote:

This is an equipment forum and we should expect posted images that show technical rather than artistic examples. It would be refreshing to see some more quality work though as those are generally the best examples of what a camera is capable of.

Ya, and still nobody has cared enough about my shot to give advice. I told you that I used in camera NR, that I wondered if a smaller aperature would help control coma and what about a higher iso and shutter speed to stop the star motion. I could have said that I used MUP and delay release, but nooo, nobody wants to comment. What other hardware parameters could I adjust. I am starting to think that all the posters in this forum want to do is complain about their focus problems. Is that all you are competent to speak to? Do I have BO??Maybe the new Canon Astro camera should have been used.

ps I forgot to say that the bright hororizen was due to light pollution from a farmhouse yard light about 400m away. This was unplanned.

Personally I'd leave in-camera noise reduction turned off and handle noise reduction in post processing. The Capture NX astro noise reduction feature seems to work pretty well. Additionally you could use your own blackframe.

Another possibility is to break down your exposure into a series of 5-10 second exposures and blend them together in Photoshop using stacking with the layer blend mode set to lighten. This gives a lot more flexibility with noise reduction, reduces the long exposure noise and tends to supress the random noise in the image whilst boosting the star brightness.

Max ISO I'd consider would be 1600, but would much prefer to keep it lower. Any higher, even with D3s and D800, will mean that you are starting to run the risk of noise competing with the stars and creating a problem with noise removal.

MLU and delay release is good. Your tripod and head is also critical. You need something really steady and solid enough to avoid wind movement (you could also try hanging your camera bag or a stone basket from it). You're pointing your camera upwards so no need to extend your tripod legs. Keep it low and compact. I assume that you are using the viewfinder blind as well?

I'd also try a couple of sample frames before your full exposure in order to check focus. Most nikon lenses focus past infinity and aren't brilliant at focussing on stars. A couple of quick exposures will let you check this out and make any adjustments necessary.

Aperture should ideally be set at the optimum for the lens. Too wide and you will get aberrations around the stars, too small and you will lose definition due to diffraction. Probably best sticking around 5.6 for a wide aperture pro lens. It will be a balancing act between aperture, iso and star movement.

I don't think you will reduce the length of the star movement much at all, if you want to keep the aperture at its optimum and keep noise under control, not unless you want to invest in a tracking device.

Generally the feel of the photo is lovely (and that's what counts). The slight clouds and the orange glow from the farm add to the image in my opinion, but I'd include more of the ground or lose it altogether. The slither at the bottom is too small and I find it annoying.

Feel free to take on board any or nothing of the above!

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Have Fun
Photo Pete

Ed_C Veteran Member • Posts: 3,808
Re: Frustrated with this Forum's Photographic Examples

Can't say I disagree. If you like hyper-saturated snapshots that couldn't ever be printed, pet photos or thinly veiled attempts to get compliments on snapshots of children that is exactly what this forum has become. Well that and LOTS of measurebating beyond all artistic merit.
--
Ed C.

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