Canon's new 61 pt AF system (1DX, 5D3) smokes Nikon

Started Aug 12, 2012 | Discussions
Mikael Risedal
Mikael Risedal Veteran Member • Posts: 4,620
Sombrero effects and AF
(unknown member) Senior Member • Posts: 2,261
The Canon shooters got their shots and left for the next venue. While the Nikon

shooters stayed back trying to capture a few more randomly in focus snaps. That's all you saw.

carlk Forum Pro • Posts: 15,940
Re: Which Olympics were you watching?

That was exactly my point. Those are top sports pj's shooting the most important game in years you think they would use a camera not having the top notch AF?

BTW there ARE more black lenses than white. I couldn't care less how many pros use Canon or Nikon. That's Canon's business to worry not mine but there is no deny how things have changes and Nikon became very competitive in the last few years.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=42206356

I too doubt there is even one D800 or for that matter 5DIII in there. Either one has the scaled down version AF of its respective big brother (not too sure about Nikon though). My post was to respond to op's ridiculous notion that somehow Canon's new AF smokes Nikon's because of one article form someone we don't even know how good at using the cameras.

David Hull wrote:

Turbo Hampster wrote:

carlk wrote:

The few shots I saw all have more black lenses than white. If you had a chance to see the chase car in the last game, the marathone, black lenses out number white lenses at least 2 to 1. That one is very clear since camera shot stayed on the truck for quite a few seconds. Anyway that panoramic tells the full story. There is no such thing as Canon AF smokes Nikon.

Exactly the few shots you saw haha

If you watched a decent amount you would of seen that overall it was fairly even and that overall canon probably had a few more but that is subjective as I didn't count them!

And anyways how ridiculous is it to be using how many of each brand is in the press pit at the olympics as a barometer of autofocus performance...

I think that the point he was trying to make was that if the AF were no good, there would have been very few Nikons there -- which is valid, IMO. However I doubt that very many of those that were there were D800 which is what this thread seems to be about.

 carlk's gear list:carlk's gear list
Nikon D800E Canon EOS 7D Canon EOS 50D Fujifilm X-E1 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 14-24mm f/2.8G ED +6 more
carlk Forum Pro • Posts: 15,940
Re: No it's not HUGE EOSHQ

Peter 13 wrote:

rbattsall wrote:

SubPrime wrote:

The 5D2 has a terribel AF and was a great camera. The D800's AF is far superior to the 5D2's AF and has a superior sensor.

All I can say is that the 5D3 must be a major anti climax if the greatest pleasure you can get is from perecived flaws in a rival camera.

Enough said...... LOL

My terrible 5D2 seems to be more consistent than Mikael's D800, with the 85/1.2-1.4 lenses, LOL.

Using left AF points?

 carlk's gear list:carlk's gear list
Nikon D800E Canon EOS 7D Canon EOS 50D Fujifilm X-E1 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 14-24mm f/2.8G ED +6 more
carlk Forum Pro • Posts: 15,940
Re: Canon's new 61 pt AF etc So much BS and ignorance

rbattsall wrote:

Wouldn't it be nice to have fast reliable CDAF to supplement PDAF. For many people who bought D800's for studio or landscape work I would think that CDAF would be far better.

Matter of fact that's just how this camera should be used under these situations. On tripod with liveview MF or CDAF and MLU. The best PDAF will probably never be able to match it.

One more thought is CDAF with MLU kind of saying we could/should just take the mirror out and go mirrorless. That could be one direction we go especially when faster CDAF is developed.

 carlk's gear list:carlk's gear list
Nikon D800E Canon EOS 7D Canon EOS 50D Fujifilm X-E1 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 14-24mm f/2.8G ED +6 more
David Hull
David Hull Veteran Member • Posts: 6,022
Re: Which Olympics were you watching?

carlk wrote:

That was exactly my point. Those are top sports pj's shooting the most important game in years you think they would use a camera not having the top notch AF?

BTW there ARE more black lenses than white. I couldn't care less how many pros use Canon or Nikon. That's Canon's business to worry not mine but there is no deny how things have changes and Nikon became very competitive in the last few years.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=42206356

In this particular shot there apear to be more Nikon but in general just watching on TV (which I did extensively) it looks about even, which represents a significant improvement for Nikon over the last few years.

I too doubt there is even one D800 or for that matter 5DIII in there. Either one has the scaled down version AF of its respective big brother (not too sure about Nikon though). My post was to respond to op's ridiculous notion that somehow Canon's new AF smokes Nikon's because of one article form someone we don't even know how good at using the cameras.

I don't know what to make of this AF thing actually. There is no question that Nikon can make a good AF. If there is anything endemically wrong with the D800, it is something that they can fix, I am sure. I think this is a result of too much pixel=peeping, a bit like the Darwin Wiggett thing when the 7D first came out. There was a huge hurrang over that and all turned out well eventually.

David Hull wrote:

Turbo Hampster wrote:

carlk wrote:

The few shots I saw all have more black lenses than white. If you had a chance to see the chase car in the last game, the marathone, black lenses out number white lenses at least 2 to 1. That one is very clear since camera shot stayed on the truck for quite a few seconds. Anyway that panoramic tells the full story. There is no such thing as Canon AF smokes Nikon.

Exactly the few shots you saw haha

If you watched a decent amount you would of seen that overall it was fairly even and that overall canon probably had a few more but that is subjective as I didn't count them!

And anyways how ridiculous is it to be using how many of each brand is in the press pit at the olympics as a barometer of autofocus performance...

I think that the point he was trying to make was that if the AF were no good, there would have been very few Nikons there -- which is valid, IMO. However I doubt that very many of those that were there were D800 which is what this thread seems to be about.

 David Hull's gear list:David Hull's gear list
Canon EOS 50D Canon EOS 5D Mark III
Shaun_Nyc
Shaun_Nyc Senior Member • Posts: 2,279
Re: Canon's new 61 pt AF system (1DX, 5D3) smokes Nikon

rwbaron wrote:

Shaun_Nyc wrote:

schmegg wrote:

Shaun_Nyc wrote:

schmegg wrote:

Let me just repeat what digloyd thinks ...

Digital Lloyd (who ever he is) and the D800 have absolutely no effect on my photography.

Yeah - mine either.

Actually I'm about to pick up a 5Dc so I can hang out with you guys more often over here.

Not owning, shooting with or even touching a Canon camera hasn't stopped many people who post regularly on this forum so why should you be any different ;).

Bob

-- hide signature --

I shoot w Canon time to time, have been w Canon for 3 yrs. Will be with them again in the near future. I get annoyed w fanboys on both sides of the fence even though this is a gear forum. Would like to see more images and less cheerleading

5DII 85L II

 Shaun_Nyc's gear list:Shaun_Nyc's gear list
Nikon D3 Nikon D800 Nikon D50 Canon EOS 5D Canon EF 100mm f/2.8L Macro IS USM +10 more
EOSHQ
EOSHQ Junior Member • Posts: 33
Re: No it's not HUGE EOSHQ

SubPrime, rbattsall, and all the other Nikon fans who post here on the Canon 1D/5D forum for whatever reason.

My post was tongue in cheek, my mistake was not making that clear. I thought using the word huge and Ashton Kutcher's name would be more obvious.

Just don't take this stuff so seriously. I think all intelligent Nikon and Canon owners can agree that both companies make good products. I know that I personally would like to wish you Nikon guys all the best, and I hope Nikon is able to get to the bottom of all the D800 and D4 problems so you can be happy and not frustrated. My advice is to go out and take some pictures. Enjoy photography again and don't worry for one second what any Canon user thinks about Nikon. I am headed out right now to do the same. Good day and good photos to you all.

rbattsall wrote:

SubPrime wrote:

The 5D2 has a terribel AF and was a great camera. The D800's AF is far superior to the 5D2's AF and has a superior sensor.

All I can say is that the 5D3 must be a major anti climax if the greatest pleasure you can get is from perecived flaws in a rival camera.

Enough said...... LOL

(unknown member) Senior Member • Posts: 2,261
That's a cool photo! nt

no text

Peter 13 Veteran Member • Posts: 8,301
Re: No it's not HUGE EOSHQ

carlk wrote:

My terrible 5D2 seems to be more consistent than Mikael's D800, with the 85/1.2-1.4 lenses, LOL.

Using left AF points?

Here we go. The most left AF point, three consecutive shots, JPEGs. I would not trust that AF point in low light though.

schmegg Veteran Member • Posts: 5,768
Re: No it's not HUGE EOSHQ

EOSHQ wrote:

Enjoy photography again and don't worry for one second what any Canon user thinks about Nikon.

It's eating away at them. In their heart of hearts they know there are issues, but they don't want it to be so. And having those filthy Canon shooters saying nasty things about Nikon cameras is just too much - it pushes their frustration level over the edge and they can't help but come here and argue. I dunno - maybe it helps get the frustration out to just have a good argument! Hehe!

Anyway - very good advice. Now lets see how many of them take it!

SubPrime Senior Member • Posts: 1,238
Re: Canon's new 61 pt AF system (1DX, 5D3) smokes Nikon

Picturenaut wrote:

The D800 has the same pixel size than a EOS 7D. I have one and what I really can tell from 3 years of extended experience with it is that diffraction blur creeps visibly in @ f > =10, you see it in particular if you use a sharp prime lens (e.g. a nice Zeiss).

Diffraction blur is a function of the lens, not the camera or pizel density.

And that's a difference to real MF cameras with bigger pixels as you can utilize their optimum resolution in the f> =10 range without too much losses.

True, but then again, most DSLR lenses are optimum at F =10 range is because F10 on a MF body is much shallower than F10 on 35mm format.

SubPrime Senior Member • Posts: 1,238
Re: No it's not HUGE EOSHQ

schmegg wrote:

It's eating away at them. In their heart of hearts they know there are issues, but they don't want it to be so.

No one wants to believe that there are issues with their investment, which for most of us, is probably $10k or more when you include lenses, speedlights etc. And those with focusing issues on their D800s have every reason to be concerned/dissapointed etc.

It's only natural to be concerned with a dilligent measurebator like Chambers claims there is something wrong with the AF or lens you own. The first thing I did was check my own D800 with the 851.4G to see if I could replicate the issues Chambers was reporting.

What I found was this:

1. I did not have the same problem as Chambers, which I am thankful for.

2. The shooting scenario that Chambers was referring to was one that most photographers are highly unlikely to experience i.e. shooting a fast 85mm prime wide open beyond 80 feet.

3. I found that with the exception of ideal lighting situations (ie. low contrast), diffraction and ghosting (due to shooting wide open) are a far greater contributor to loss of image detail than AF inaccuracy or prescision.

Having said that, it should come as no surprise that Nikon's AF system will need to be overhauled for the next generation of pro DSLRs. While the CAM3500 system was a huge success for Nikon, I think most Nikon shooters were a little surprised that the module was merely tweaked, rather than replaced.

Nikon were producing nothing above 12 mpx when the existing AF module was first released.

Doess this mean the existing AF system is insufficient to serve the needs of D4 and D800 users? Not at all. If that were the case, we would not have seem at least half the cameras at the Olympics being Nikon. For D4 shooters, it is certainly delivering even at wide apertures. For D800 shooters, it makes little sense to shoot wide open without sacrificing image quality anyway - in fact, that applies to all cases except for perhaps Leica S2 lenses and the 200F2 lenses fron Nikon and Canon.

As for 'eating away", this get's back to the fact that posts about the D800 continue to appear here several times a week - sometimes more than 1 per day. If the D800 was not an issue or of interest, why the constant posts on this topic?

As Vibro writes below, "Who cares"? Obviously a number of Canon fanboys do.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=42257950

Devendra
Devendra Veteran Member • Posts: 3,584
you guys haven't seen dileep's post

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=42086459

its funny how the internet is stuck on static left AF issues..

not sure who is smokin what.

iShootWideOpen wrote:

Read (link below) what the ultimate Nikon homer has to say.

http://diglloyd.com

 Devendra's gear list:Devendra's gear list
Sony Alpha NEX-3N Nikon D800E Nikon D200 Nikon 1 J1
Great British Landscapes
Great British Landscapes Regular Member • Posts: 321
Re: This forum isn't interested in facts

This forum is only interested in vast amounts of hyperbole and making pathetic fanboy statements up from wherever they can. A link like yours will therefore have no interest whatsoever

Devendra wrote:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=42086459

its funny how the internet is stuck on static left AF issues..

not sure who is smokin what.

iShootWideOpen wrote:

Read (link below) what the ultimate Nikon homer has to say.

http://diglloyd.com

Mikael Risedal
Mikael Risedal Veteran Member • Posts: 4,620
Re: This forum isn't interested in facts

You are so right. I think the even sleep with theirs beloved equipment. Here you have little more facts how mine d800 behaves regarding left AF point.
Not to good.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=42258175

and I can also show how one of my 5dmk2 AF behavior was in a series of pictures before it was adjusted by Canon

Great British Landscapes wrote:

This forum is only interested in vast amounts of hyperbole and making pathetic fanboy statements up from wherever they can. A link like yours will therefore have no interest whatsoever

Devendra wrote:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=42086459

its funny how the internet is stuck on static left AF issues..

not sure who is smokin what.

iShootWideOpen wrote:

Read (link below) what the ultimate Nikon homer has to say.

http://diglloyd.com

-- hide signature --

Life is a battle wishes aunt Titti

rhlpetrus Forum Pro • Posts: 24,897
So true Re: This forum isn't interested in facts

I posted this comment here, saying good things about the latest Canons and complaining about inflammatory, hyperbolic and extravagant posts:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=42249107

Then I got this as response:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=42250412

Go figure!

BTW: my interest in this case is regarding the possibility that Canon may have developed a truly outstanding PDAF that matches CDAF accuracy. That would be awesome. But some here think that is just food for brand wars, claims of superiority, etc. If Canon did it, Nikon will need to respond, that's good for everybody.

Great British Landscapes wrote:

This forum is only interested in vast amounts of hyperbole and making pathetic fanboy statements up from wherever they can. A link like yours will therefore have no interest whatsoever

Devendra wrote:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=42086459

its funny how the internet is stuck on static left AF issues..

not sure who is smokin what.

iShootWideOpen wrote:

Read (link below) what the ultimate Nikon homer has to say.

http://diglloyd.com

-- hide signature --

Renato.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rhlpedrosa/
OnExposure member
http://www.onexposure.net/

Good shooting and good luck
(after Ed Murrow)

 rhlpetrus's gear list:rhlpetrus's gear list
Leica D-Lux (Typ 109) Nikon 1 V1 Nikon D7000 Nikon 1 Nikkor 10mm f/2.8 Nikon AF Nikkor 35mm f/2D +4 more
rwbaron Forum Pro • Posts: 13,006
Re: So true Re: This forum isn't interested in facts

When you cross post as much as you do you need to develop a thicker skin ;).

I responded specifically to your comment I wonder why this obssession with the D800 here and nothing else. IMO that was quite naive coming from someone like yourself who posts with a fair degree of frequency in this forum. Frankly, you've been living under a rock or are just plain dense if you don't know the answer to your question (I assume you posed it as a question without proper punctuation) and I simply offered my opinion.

BTW wasn't it you that started a thread with the panoramic shot from the photographers area at the London Olympics? For some reason I can't find the thread so it must have been purged but I know I responded to it. If my memory is incorrect then I apologize but if I am recalling correctly then you're part of the problem too which was the gist of my original reply to you. It was a 360 degree panorama from the photog's area with the intent to show on that day that there were as many or more Nikon shooters compared to Canon. Gee, what possibly could be the purpose of posting that in the Canon 1D forum (rolleyes)?

If you didn't get it the first time I'll try to make myself more clear. The D800 has been rammed down people's throats on this forum by both Canon and Nikon shooters. The D800 is a nice camera with a great sensor but like any camera it's not perfect although some would like to think so. When you have that much hyperbole about a competing product posted in this forum you have to expect some pushback.

It's really not all that complicated and I wouldn't be surprised if you're not just yanking my chain with your bewilderment.

Bob

rhlpetrus wrote:

I posted this comment here, saying good things about the latest Canons and complaining about inflammatory, hyperbolic and extravagant posts:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=42249107

Then I got this as response:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=42250412

Go figure!

BTW: my interest in this case is regarding the possibility that Canon may have developed a truly outstanding PDAF that matches CDAF accuracy. That would be awesome. But some here think that is just food for brand wars, claims of superiority, etc. If Canon did it, Nikon will need to respond, that's good for everybody.

Great British Landscapes wrote:

This forum is only interested in vast amounts of hyperbole and making pathetic fanboy statements up from wherever they can. A link like yours will therefore have no interest whatsoever

Devendra wrote:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=42086459

its funny how the internet is stuck on static left AF issues..

not sure who is smokin what.

iShootWideOpen wrote:

Read (link below) what the ultimate Nikon homer has to say.

http://diglloyd.com

-- hide signature --

Renato.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rhlpedrosa/
OnExposure member
http://www.onexposure.net/

Good shooting and good luck
(after Ed Murrow)

-- hide signature --
 rwbaron's gear list:rwbaron's gear list
Fujifilm X-T2 Fujifilm X-T20 Fujifilm XF 18-55mm F2.8-4 R LM OIS Fujifilm XF 55-200mm F3.5-4.8 R LM OIS Fujifilm XF 10-24mm F4 R OIS +8 more
carlk Forum Pro • Posts: 15,940
Re: I just wonder...

... if one pro shooting Olympics will say to the next one shooting the other brand : my AF smokes yours.

Nay. It's too unprofessional. It can only happen in DPR forum.

 carlk's gear list:carlk's gear list
Nikon D800E Canon EOS 7D Canon EOS 50D Fujifilm X-E1 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 14-24mm f/2.8G ED +6 more
Peter 13 Veteran Member • Posts: 8,301
Re: I just wonder...

carlk wrote:

... if one pro shooting Olympics will say to the next one shooting the other brand : my AF smokes yours.

Not sure about the Oly guy but the iphone guy can certainly say that.

Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads