"Magical" colors: is 5D3 closer to 5D than 5D2 was?

Started Aug 8, 2012 | Discussions
Victor Engel Forum Pro • Posts: 18,347
Re: "Magical" colors: is 5D3 closer to 5D than 5D2 was?

Where does this information come from? What profile is being used?
--

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Mikael Risedal
Mikael Risedal Veteran Member • Posts: 4,620
Re: "Magical" colors: is 5D3 closer to 5D than 5D2 was?

improved CFA in 5dmk3 ? nope i do not agree

5d and 1dsmk3 has a more dense CFA which means better conditions for color accuracy.

henrikbengtsson wrote:

I have heard the same - that the 5D3 is closer to 5D in its "character" OOC.

I think it's a combination of a slightly more accurate colorbalance, different hues, improved filter and tweaked profiles - both JPG engine and RAW profiles in different software. In some situations the difference might be zero, however depending on light there might be bigger variations - or as many would put it: another "look-and-feel". That's why colorcharts and beerbottles are totally pointless in this area. You literally want the whole picture and in different situations.

It is important to understand that (with some exceptions) a sensor with its colorfilter (whatever brand and model) is unique and OFCOURSE the output will differ. Some will notice a difference, some will not. Some will like it, some will not. And perhaps most importantly...some will think it matters and some don't even care because there's so much planned in post anyway.

Personally, I think I prefer the old 5D OOC approach to colors - they FEEL a bit more lifelike to my eyes. But the 5D2 is so much better in all other areas so I don't mind the little extra tweak to get the hues where I want them.

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Press Correspondent
OP Press Correspondent Veteran Member • Posts: 3,345
Re: "Magical" colors: is 5D3 closer to 5D than 5D2 was?

Mikael Risedal wrote:

improved CFA in 5dmk3 ? nope i do not agree

5d and 1dsmk3 has a more dense CFA which means better conditions for color accuracy.

True, 5D has better colors, but we are comparing 5D3 against 5D2, not against 5D. Based on what's been posted so far, 5D3 looks more saturated and vibrant compared to 5D2. It may not be the same as more "accurate" and could be corrected in the profiles, but it is not necessarily "accurate" we are after, it is more "pleasing" to the eye, something that 5D had subjectively referred to as "magic" or "creamy colors".

This is what I am getting from the responses (other than the one from Alpha Centaurs). Compared to 5D, the colors of 5D2 were darker, muted, less saturated. This seems to have been addressed in 5D3 at least in part making a step back toward the colors of 5D. Makes sense?

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Mikael Risedal
Mikael Risedal Veteran Member • Posts: 4,620
Re: "Magical" colors: is 5D3 closer to 5D than 5D2 was?

internal JPG -yes

Press Correspondent wrote:

Mikael Risedal wrote:

improved CFA in 5dmk3 ? nope i do not agree

5d and 1dsmk3 has a more dense CFA which means better conditions for color accuracy.

True, 5D has better colors, but we are comparing 5D3 against 5D2, not against 5D. Based on what's been posted so far, 5D3 looks more saturated and vibrant compared to 5D2. It may not be the same as more "accurate" and could be corrected in the profiles, but it is not necessarily "accurate" we are after, it is more "pleasing" to the eye, something that 5D had subjectively referred to as "magic" or "creamy colors".

This is what I am getting from the responses (other than the one from Alpha Centaurs). Compared to 5D, the colors of 5D2 were darker, muted, less saturated. This seems to have been addressed in 5D3 at least in part making a step back toward the colors of 5D. Makes sense?

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gdanmitchell
gdanmitchell Veteran Member • Posts: 7,730
Re: "Magical" colors: is 5D3 closer to 5D than 5D2 was?

Victor Engel wrote:

but now it is that the 5D and 5D2 were better than the 5D3. Never fear, when the 5D15 comes out, there will be folks swearing up and down that that 5D14 produced altogether magical colors and was far and away the better camera.

Maybe the 5D15 will be B&W.

No. I've spoken to the Siberian wedding photographers, who say that someone they know of heard someone report that a person in a place they had not been to might have seen the 5D15, though they aren't really available yet, and it was undeniably clear to all at the wedding that there was not proof at all that the camera might not primarily operate in the infrared band, where its performance could be better than that of the 5D14, or at least not much worse that it will or should be.

Count on it.

Dan

Press Correspondent
OP Press Correspondent Veteran Member • Posts: 3,345
Man, you really should lay off beer...

... before you get abducted by a flying saucer... from Alpha Siberia

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henrikbengtsson Contributing Member • Posts: 782
Re: "Magical" colors: is 5D3 closer to 5D than 5D2 was?

I am surprised that people keep talking about jpgs and how a camera (sensor) character doesn't mean anything in a rawfile.

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salamander1 Senior Member • Posts: 1,417
is this picture close to the magical colors of 5d in your opinion?

Is 5D3 closer to 5D in colors than 5D2 was to 5D?

5DIII

itsDing
itsDing Senior Member • Posts: 2,211
Re: "Magical" colors: is 5D3 closer to 5D than 5D2 was?

Hey Dan, l know the guy those Siberian photographers have heard about. lf you ever go to Siberia let me know and l wil putin a good word for you.

salamander1 Senior Member • Posts: 1,417
Re: "Magical" colors: is 5D3 closer to 5D than 5D2 was?

itsDing wrote:

Hey Dan, l know the guy those Siberian photographers have heard about. lf you ever go to Siberia let me know and l wil putin a good word for you.

you can never get out of siberia. they will be putin you in jail there for
spying or something else. siberia is where the gulag archipelago is located.
these siberian photographers all work for the government or for some
underground samizdat. press corespondent seems so changed after
his adventure. the russians putin him on electronic mind control or
who knows what.

itsDing
itsDing Senior Member • Posts: 2,211
Re: "Magical" colors: is 5D3 closer to 5D than 5D2 was?

Putin! Get it, sigh!

Knipser63 Regular Member • Posts: 363
Re: "Magical" colors: is 5D3 closer to 5D than 5D2 was?

Don't know, how you US-boys shorten it: BS? (If you don't understand: it's what comes out of the back of a bull)
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Mikael Risedal
Mikael Risedal Veteran Member • Posts: 4,620
Re: "Magical" colors: is 5D3 closer to 5D than 5D2 was?

Explain what you mean, there is none interpolation/ estimation who are alike

henrikbengtsson wrote:

I am surprised that people keep talking about jpgs and how a camera (sensor) character doesn't mean anything in a rawfile.

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henrikbengtsson Contributing Member • Posts: 782
Re: "Magical" colors: is 5D3 closer to 5D than 5D2 was?

What I mean is that if you load two images from different cameras/models in the same RAW converter and share the settings, they may appear different due to sensor/filter technology and metamerism.

My D700 files certainly look a bit different in Lightroom compared to my 5D2 files. Nothing strange about that though...

Mikael Risedal wrote:
Explain what you mean, there is none interpolation/ estimation who are alike

henrikbengtsson wrote:

I am surprised that people keep talking about jpgs and how a camera (sensor) character doesn't mean anything in a rawfile.

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salamander1 Senior Member • Posts: 1,417
Re: "Magical" colors: is 5D3 closer to 5D than 5D2 was?

Knipser63 wrote:

Don't know, how you US-boys shorten it: BS? (If you don't understand: it's what comes out of the back of a bull)
--
http://zoneofpictures.jimdo.com

the original 5D was the first full frame dslr (along with 1DII)
and there certainly was some hidden magic associated with it.
there was magic even in the 20D. we don't know what it was.

gdanmitchell
gdanmitchell Veteran Member • Posts: 7,730
Re: "Magical" colors: is 5D3 closer to 5D than 5D2 was?

itsDing wrote:

Hey Dan, l know the guy those Siberian photographers have heard about. lf you ever go to Siberia let me know and l wil putin a good word for you.

Knipser63 wrote:

Don't know, how you US-boys shorten it: BS? (If you don't understand: it's what comes out of the back of a bull)

Yes, that is exactly how us US-boys shorten it.

gdanmitchell
gdanmitchell Veteran Member • Posts: 7,730
Re: "Magical" colors: is 5D3 closer to 5D than 5D2 was?

henrikbengtsson wrote:

What I mean is that if you load two images from different cameras/models in the same RAW converter and share the settings, they may appear different due to sensor/filter technology and metamerism.

metamerism (did you mean "metamerism failure?") probably isn't the issue here, but your point about sensor/filter (and internal software, along with other aspects of hardware) difference among cameras is both important and to be expected.

I've often said that the idea of constructing a supposedly "objective" test that begins by applying the same basic conversion settings to all samples is somewhere between bogus and meaningless. It would make some sense, I suppose, if we worked in a world in which we did not optimize images in post, both during the raw conversion stage and in our image manipulation programs - but that is essentially never the case. It is especially true when it comes to raw files, which must be adjusted in ways that optimize the image in ways appropriate to the specific camera. I have a 5D and a 5D2. I can produce beautiful image quality from both cameras - but not using the identical settings.

A much more useful comparison would look at what you get from samples that are converted to optimize the images in the ways that photographers typically work in post.

(To imagine that you can compare different systems by using the same processing is sort of like arguing that you should compare different films' performance by using the identical default processing chemicals, processes, and timing. That would, of course, be utter nonsense.)

Dan

Press Correspondent
OP Press Correspondent Veteran Member • Posts: 3,345
Re: "Magical" colors: is 5D3 closer to 5D than 5D2 was?

salamander1 wrote:

you can never get out of siberia. they will be putin you in jail there for
spying or something else. siberia is where the gulag archipelago is located.
these siberian photographers all work for the government or for some
underground samizdat. press corespondent seems so changed after
his adventure. the russians putin him on electronic mind control or
who knows what.

Siberia, the Asian part of Russia, everything East of the Ural Mountains, is about 35% bigger than the entire United States. The Gulag in on the North, I was in the Southern part. I don't know about mind control, but they sure gave me a common cold I am now suffering from in the heat of Kansas.

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Press Correspondent
OP Press Correspondent Veteran Member • Posts: 3,345
A poppy plantation? It explains a lot...

It looks very nice, but honestly, I have no idea how to compare. Peter was referring to a "gloomy day" for smooth color transitions, not high contrast of direct sun. But again, I have no idea, but I do like the picture. What was the lens and aperture?

salamander1 wrote:

Is 5D3 closer to 5D in colors than 5D2 was to 5D?

5DIII

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itsDing
itsDing Senior Member • Posts: 2,211
Re: "Magical" colors: is 5D3 closer to 5D than 5D2 was?

A bit of 20D magic. The image has been cropped from more than full body to head only.

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